Below is a fragment of one of our poetic masterpices translated into English by an unscrupulous person. Can you guess the original Farsi poem?
The door of eve's first watch,
in the room like lonesome insight, the porcelain woman
inside her head frightening reflections catch faraway, she thinks:
"slaves to powerlessness who turn to wine the wall of the town chief
everyone of them to whom life has given the pluck of the whip's fire beneath the rubble
his disobedient lot is secret in the wall layer."
(Might win second prize as an original surreal English verse.)
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thanks MG.
by Anahid Hojjati on Sat Apr 23, 2011 07:12 PM PDTand also thanks for your feedback about the translation.
...
by Mash Ghasem on Sat Apr 23, 2011 10:16 AM PDTExcellent start, thanks.
I blogged the first drfat of translation of Shamlou's poem
by Anahid Hojjati on Sat Apr 23, 2011 08:10 AM PDTNow, friends can improve this draft, or if they totally don't like it, they can start heir own translation, but at least we have something to discuss. Here is link to my blog:
//iranian.com/main/blog/anahid-hojjati/i-am-still-thinking-about-crow-group-translation-project
darft of next few lines
by Anahid Hojjati on Sat Apr 23, 2011 06:33 AM PDTfacing the nearby mountain
with dry croaking of his throat
he said something
which the mountains
impatiently
under the ??? sun
for a long time
astonished
were repeating it in their stony heads.
First draft of first few lines just to get us started
by Anahid Hojjati on Sat Apr 23, 2011 06:00 AM PDTI think if we have something to start, it will be easier to proceed. This is what I have for first few lines, so MG, Ari, and any other friend can edit it:
With his black scissors
on yellow of the toasted wheat field
with multiplied rustle
cut a curved arc
from the pale paper sky
i already know that "curved arc" is not a good choice since all arcs are curved. But for right now, let' s leave it there. The way I will go about it, is to try to proceed at a minimum level and then come back and make corrections, and other friends are welcome to make their corrections on what I do too.
...
by Mash Ghasem on Sat Apr 23, 2011 12:32 PM PDT'Khair' jan, thanks for your continued support in translation 'project.' As I'm sure we all agree by now, there's no 'deadline' or rush for any of our little literary experiment . Let's see if we'll get a few more folks participating in the process.
If we have more folks interested, good.
If not, you yourself could probably translate the poem, it's not that long, though I had a very hard time translating it. Anahid, Souri, Faramraz, and me could help with editing and corrections.
I know, it sounds a bit like an Azadeh 'flow-chart,' but me a bit tipsy!
Prof. Faramraz, couldn't stop laughing. ... thanx.
Actually quite impressive!
by Ari Siletz on Fri Apr 22, 2011 02:36 PM PDT"از جلای سر طاسش در زیر نور ترسیدم
Poet's Note: In a stroke of genius, the poet connects the fear, the head and the reflections of the faraway rays; just brilliant ."
Actually quite impressive! For example the word "jala" even connects phonetically--and indirectly in intent--to the word "najla" in another stanza of the poem.
Poetry for Beginners!
by Faramarz on Fri Apr 22, 2011 01:48 PM PDTAri, your wish is my command! Here is how I went about solving this great puzzle and I will explain it to Anahid like a good French Teacher; no apples please
The door of eve's first watch
درنگاه اول من یک دل نه صد دل عاشق حوا شدم
Poet's Note: The hidden message here is Eve, Havva
in the room like lonesome insight, the porcelain woman
تا کلاه گیس برداشت با زنی چینی در اتاقی خالی تنها شدم
Poet's Note: Here the emphasis is on the Chinese woman and lonesomeness
inside her head frightening reflections catch faraway, she thinks:
از جلای سر طاسش در زیر نور ترسیدم
Poet's Note: In a stroke of genius, the poet connects the fear, the head and the reflections of the faraway rays; just brilliant
"slaves to powerlessness who turn to wine the wall of the town chief
گریختم از دیوار، دویدم تا میکده به جناب سروان آویزان شدم
Poet's Note: Here you sense the powerlessness of a man on the run who begs the authorities for help
everyone of them to whom life has given the pluck of the whip's fire beneath the rubble
شلاق داغی خوردم در زیر آوار من ز او
Poet's Note: But he is being ridiculed and punished by the authorities
his disobedient lot is secret in the wall layer."
عاقبت از دست حوا در لایه دیوار پنهان شدم
Poet's Note: And the shame and regret about a mistaken love
Some replies
by Ari Siletz on Fri Apr 22, 2011 01:32 PM PDTMash Ghasem: I second your choice of poem, and your idea of sending it to Shamlou's site if we end up with a translation we are happy with. What's the next step? Will follow up on Farhan and Nafisi.
Anahid: "...you are great at ... so many other things that I don't have time to name one by one." Toro be khoda don't give Faramarz any bahaneh to offer his own style of interpretive translations.
Faramarz: Please interpretively translate the above comment to Anahid as a request. Any well known poem will be a delight, I'm sure.
MG, I got to go out, will not be able to read Farsi font
by Anahid Hojjati on Fri Apr 22, 2011 12:36 PM PDTbut your suggestion is great. That poem is very significant, so good choice.
به کجای این شب
Mash GhasemFri Apr 22, 2011 12:40 PM PDT
آناهید و "خیر" عزیز با تشکر از لطف و توجه شما به ترجمه گروهی شعر.
آیا کسی به اجراهای رعنا فرهان و سهیل نفیسی از نیما گوش کرده؟راستش بهترین روش ، بی روشی است. این فرنگی ها میگن Free -Flow . پس از
انتخاب شعر هر کس هر مقدار دوست داشت ترجمه کنه . فقط یکی، دو نفر میخواد
که محصول نهایی را مقداری ویراستاری و حک و اصلاح کند. پیشنهاد این حقیر
شصت و چند ساله " هنوز در فکر آن کلاغم" است. احیانا ، اگر ترجمه درست حسابی و آبرومندی از آب درآمد میشه تقدیمش کرد به سایت رسمی شاملو، و از این حرفها...
این مشتی حقیر شما با این "پروژه" ها، خودشو بر میگردونه به اون دوران خوش و
بی غم و خیال دبیرستان (چهل ،پنجاه سال پیش). خدا شما و همه جوانان
نیما- پسند را حفظ کنه.
فرامرز جان ، تو این روز پر از اخبار بد، طبق معمول لبخندی به لبان همه آوردی، بازم داشی پهلوان خومان.
baba jon, let discuss it!
by Souri on Fri Apr 22, 2011 12:05 PM PDTAfter re-reading and reflecting on the poem, last night, I deducted that actually Nima was completely enraged when he said that poem ! the theme is purely political. Look at this
در نخستین ساعت شب، دور از دیدار بسیار آشنا من نیز
در غم ناراحتی های کسانم؛
همچنانی کان زن چینی
بر زبان اندیشه های دلگزایی حرف می راند،
من سرودی آشنا را می کن در گوش
من دمی از فکر بهبودی تنها ماندگان در خانه هاشان نیستم خاموش
و سراسر هیکل دیوارها در پیش چشم التهاب من نمایانند نجلا!
and
راهبردم را به خوبی می شناسم، خوب می دانم
من خطوطی را که با ظلمت نوشته اند
وندر آن اندیشه ی دیوارسازان می دهد تصویر
دیرگاهی هست می خوانم.
and
چند رفته سالهای دور و از هم فاصله جسته
که بزور دستهای ما به گرد ما
می روند این بی زبان دیوارها بالا.
hala hei begoo taghsir in bichareh zan porcelini boudeh :)
Ari, if you did the translation
by Anahid Hojjati on Fri Apr 22, 2011 12:22 PM PDTand are serious, then we found one area that you are less than fantastic in it. I mean, you are great at writing stories, you know science and music, you do cartoons, so many other things that I don't have time to name one by one. So Ari, don't feel bad if as of now, you are not fantastic in translating from Persian poetry to English . Hopefully, once we do some group projects, we all get better.
Anahid
by Ari Siletz on Fri Apr 22, 2011 11:48 AM PDTThank you Mash Ghasem
by Ari Siletz on Fri Apr 22, 2011 11:35 AM PDTThanks for explanation Souri jan, and MG, I am really impressed.
by Anahid Hojjati on Fri Apr 22, 2011 11:33 AM PDTSouri jan, I thought that Ari might have been joking but I was not sure.
MG, I am so impresed. You know so much about poetry at your young age. According to Faramarz, you are only 21.
Confusion
by Souri on Fri Apr 22, 2011 08:01 AM PDTAnahid jon,
That was purely a joke between Ari and me. No hard feeling was there. We are teasing each other.
Maybe the way we write on the net, and the way it is read by others, are completely different and brings to the confusion.
Ari was not blaming me, but just joking (as he always joke about almost everything in a very subtle way) and I........well I have tried to be subtle too, but it didn't work well :)
Sorry for my awkwardness.
thanks, you have valid points too
by Anahid Hojjati on Fri Apr 22, 2011 03:30 AM PDTand let's continue this lovely discussion in few hours. I am a bit tired too but this was a great comment, thanks for all the info.
...
by Mash Ghasem on Fri Apr 22, 2011 03:25 AM PDTyour argument is a bit mechanical, me a bit tired, but you do have some valid points.
Reza Barahani has had a discussion of "Crisis in Iranian Poetry" for a while now. So we do have a crisis, but it's a bit more complicated than just domination of religion in society, it also involves the poets themselves, the language(s), the medium,...
The golden era of Shamlou, Akhavn and Forough,...is very hard to match, big shoes.
Me thinks you're seriously underestimating the quantity and the quality of literary works done in the past few decades, unless it's your full time job you would really have a very hard time keeping up with it. Ask Ms. Hora Yavary, she wrote the essay for fiction, in Iran Encyclopedia, cheers & good night or good day.
I just listened to Shamlou, it was great.
by Anahid Hojjati on Fri Apr 22, 2011 03:19 AM PDTThanks for the poem and the link. Group translation is a good idea.
I don't know about others
by Anahid Hojjati on Fri Apr 22, 2011 03:12 AM PDTBut when I read poems from Nima written sixty years ago and poems from other great poets written 40-50 years ago, they seem to be much more modern, progressive and beautiful than writing that is done in Iran these days. Yes, there are people like Hila Sedighi but collectively, I don't think years between early 80s to now can be comapred in literature in Iran to years between 1950 and 1980. Those were golden years in literaure in my opinion. So many great poets and indeed many like Nima and Forough were ahead of times, but then Iran went backwards. Truth is that part of the reason that some of our great ones in literaure look so great, is that literature in Iran did not progress under IRI any where near levels it could have.
...
by Mash Ghasem on Fri Apr 22, 2011 03:05 AM PDTIndeedy, Alfbamdad is great , so was his teacher Mr. Esfandiary, and all the good readers on IC, not to mention the early birds.
How about a group translation? Did you listen to Shamlou's reading?
Great poem Mash Ghasem
by Anahid Hojjati on Fri Apr 22, 2011 02:56 AM PDTExcellent imagery. Now we need someone to translate this :).
هنوز در فکر آن کلاغم
Mash GhasemFri Apr 22, 2011 02:55 AM PDT
تقصیر از نثر فارسی این نیما جان عزیز بوده."
آخه این هم شد نثر فارسی؟
قربونش برم یا واقعاً فارسیش خیلی بد بوده، یا اینکه خیلی خیلی جلو تر از زمان خودش (و ما هم) فکر میکرده"
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
هنوز
در فکرِ آن کلاغم در درههای یوش:
با قیچی سیاهش
بر زردیِ برشتهی گندمزار
با خِشخِشی مضاعف
از آسمانِ کاغذی مات
قوسی بُرید کج،
و رو به کوهِ نزدیک
با غار غارِ خشکِ گلویش
چیزی گفت
که کوهها
بیحوصله
در زِلِّ آفتاب
تا دیرگاهی آن را
با حیرت
در کَلّههای سنگیشان
تکرار میکردند.
□
گاهی سوآل میکنم از خود که
یک کلاغ
با آن حضورِ قاطعِ بیتخفیف
وقتی
صلاتِ ظهر
با رنگِ سوگوارِ مُصرّش
بر زردیِ برشتهی گندمزاری بال میکشد
تا از فرازِ چند سپیدار بگذرد،
با آن خروش و خشم
چه دارد بگوید
با کوههای پیر
کاین عابدانِ خستهی خوابآلود
در نیمروزِ تابستانی
تا دیرگاهی آن را با هم
تکرار کنند؟
//www.shamlou.org/index.php?q=node/489
Was that translation yours, Ari and how did Souri get the blame?
by Anahid Hojjati on Fri Apr 22, 2011 02:01 AM PDTAri, was that Farsi to English translation yours? and not to offend you if it were, but how did Souri get the blame? I think I was the one that mentioned that translation was not good. But then when original poem was posted, it is a difficult poem to translate. In general, at least for me, translating from English to Farsi for poems, it is not that difficult but from Farsi to English, that is a different story.
Origins of Nima's Modernity: Modern French Poetry
by Mash Ghasem on Fri Apr 22, 2011 02:33 AM PDTand Yoush, and all that lush green in north and Darvag....
Rumors also mention early influences of Khanlary on him, but I can't cite a source on that. Those two sure went two distinct different ways. As WE mentions Nima's modernity is very much geared towards the nature and his immediate surroundings in the countryside. Contrast this with European modernity with its focus on urban, speed and hustle of daily life.
Below is some of his poems sang in song. I'm gettign addicted to Rana Farhan, and Soheil Nafici in these performances, enjoy, and thank you Ari jan, keep'em coming cheers
//www.parand.se/tr-nimay-yoush.htm
Hurting your feeling?
by Souri on Thu Apr 21, 2011 05:21 PM PDTSorry Ari jon, I had missed this one.
How come I hurt your feeling while I have tried so hard to be nice with you (and with your translation)?
Otherwise, i would tell you that your translation is some how....ehem ehem
This should not be translated to "The porcelain woman" but the "Chinese woman".........Reflecting on the word "wall" which came up there a few times and also the references as " hard work" and also "the big city"
I'm sure this talks about the Chines woman and not the Porcelain one!
hala indafeh mibakhsham :)
Thanks Souri for your reply.
by Anahid Hojjati on Thu Apr 21, 2011 02:38 PM PDT.
I bow!
by persian westender on Thu Apr 21, 2011 02:34 PM PDTThank you dear Ari! This is my second medal in about a month. I already received the platinum medal for mozakhrafest surrealist poetry granted by CC!
Joking aside, and as for the reason why Nima broke the tradition, I really am not in the position to explain it; but to give you some ideas; I believe Nima was trying to break the norm in order to speak with ordinary people. He was impressed by “mashrooteh khaahi” movement, whereas the first indications of modernism was emerging…..He was also influenced by the geography of his birth place and its magnificent nature which inspires sensitive and creative souls such as Nima…
Souri Jan: Thank you so much for the compliment, but I am neither a great poet, nor the one who sent you the emails…Thanks again.
It was a trick question
by salman farsi on Thu Apr 21, 2011 02:19 PM PDTYou tricked me by this diversionary remark:
"one of our poetic masterpieces"!!
Nice diversionary joke Mr Ari.
For an Islamic democracy