bahmani

ddEP, Great Response

I liked it the best.. 

professor doctor

professor doctor is used in germany (perhaps in other countries as well).  a friend of mine who lives in germany once told me the meaning of it but it escapes me.  i remember that he was surprised that after successful completion of a four-year medical program (subsequent to the 4-year pre-med b.s.), a person can be called m.d. (or doctor) in the u.s.  apparently, in germany, you need to also publish a dissertation to be called a doctor, or professor doctor.

at any rate, fascination with titles is not unique to iranians living in iran or iranians living in u.s. or elsewhere.  neither is the disdain by some of those who have achieved the highest degrees in their fields!

here's an article about obsession of germans with the doctor title in which it gives a different (and vague) spin on the meaning of professor doctor: //www.ft.com/cms/s/0/26cca11c-4118-11e0-bf62-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1XIJvL3ZS

Ey baba....

What's all this? if you are so desparate for a "doctor ship", just buy one from "London Oxford University" (The online branch!) and become a minister in soltan ali Khamenei's "paliament"!

But seriously, there is nothing wrong with adding Dr. Prefix to your name on your  business card if you have a PhD in something of some use to humanity. It for sure facilitates getting a mortgage, after having cleared the immigration at Newark airport only a month ago, with absolutely no credit history!

My problem is with the "Doctors" with PhD in good for nothing subjects such as "history of orientalism and islamist poets' struggle for liberation of Gulan heights from Zionists", from some US/European university. You know the type, dont you??? 

Which reminds me, where is our good friend "Doctor_Mohandes"? Have not seen him here for quite some time. Did he say something bad about NIAC and got banned???

"Personal business must yield to collective interest."

MM

Central and East Europe rather.

aren't you just jealous, Bahmani?

come on admit it! ;)

I lived in the US for 15 years. I have never heard of this "rule" about who can be called a doctor. 

Dr. Kissinger?

Dr. Rice?

Dr. Brezezinsky?

Dr. Phil ?

Some professors aren't doctors and many Ph.Ds aren't working in Universities, but they still have a doctorate.

According to Wikipedia:

In the United States, the title Doctor is commonly used professionally by those who have earned a doctorate-level degree, though those with earned PhDs are educationally qualified for the title.[35][36][37][38] In addition, those who have been granted honorary doctorates are entitled to do so, especially in academic settings. The title is also commonly used socially by those holding a doctoral-level degree.[39] There is a division between Letitia Baldridge and Miss Manners on its social usage by those who are not physicians.[40] Baldridge sees this usage as acceptable; Miss Manners writes that "only people of the medical profession correctly use the title of doctor socially," but supports those who wish to use it in social contexts in the spirit of addressing people according to their wishes.[40][41]

The American College of Clinicians and at least one state[42] recommends that health care professionals, including physicians, in the clinical setting use identification with an appropriate badge or name tag, as patients encounter a number of different practitioners. For example, all health care professionals should identify themselves and their profession when first meeting a patient.[43][44]

Attorneys in the United States rarely use any title, but some common ones include "Esquire" ("Esq."), "Attorney," or "attorney-at-law." As the academic degree held by U.S. attorneys is the Juris Doctor, a professional doctorate,[45] some J.D. holders in the United States do use the honorific "Dr." in professional[19] and academic situations.[46]

Getting a Doctorate is neither easy, nor profitable in most cases. Those who have put in the 7-8 years getting the PhD (stands for Doctor of Philosophy) deserve to be called  Dr. if they want. It doesn't mean you know "everything", but it does very much mean you are a world expert on a very narrow subject.

Now, surely we have all encountered arrogant big-shots who shoot off their mouths and demand respect. But that's a general problem with Iranians, not just doctors.

MM

Where in Europe?

Is this more of a European thing?

None of my PhD friends in the US call themselves doctor or expect to be called one.  Comparatively, in some of my European encounters, I have seen "doctor professor" label on letter-heads.

Faramarz , very funny and true

My work is in the area of 5th generation mobile devices.

دکتر جان، کاسبی چطوره!

Ever since dentists and chiropractors started calling themselves doctors and, janitors were called building engineers, the prestige has gone out of these titles.

The same is true for lawyers, since there are too many of them and most of the work is being done by legal aides. Civil engineers have not much glamour either because the general contractor (Sar Fa’leh/Sar Amaleh) does all the work and makes the money.

College professors are so underpaid that they have to ride bicycles to work and the only respect that they get is among other professors. And their wives are always complaining about the money!

The term doctor however is widely used among Iranian men when they see somebody who they haven’t seen in many years and don’t remember his name. So they say, “Kojaii doctor, kam peydaii!”

The only title nowadays that gets some attention is “Founder”, as in, “I am working on some next generation stuff that I cannot disclose and I have brought some venture capital people and angel investors together to fund my start up. I’ll let you know, so you can get in early.”

Translation: “I am working on some scheme that I am not sure if it works and I can’t tell you anything about it. But I have found some gullible people who are willing to throw their children’s inheritance into it and brag about it to their friends and neighbors until they realize that all the money is gone!!”

Tell the truth

... have always hated it.

Central Europeans have the same problem, they love mr dr pr. Suppose, it gives them legitimacy.

Few years ago, a baby was about to be born on a transatlantic flight. They called a lady who'd paid for her ticket using her dr credit card. It turned out she was just another dr in social relations and international economics.

درباره میرفطروس

میرفطروس، در سال‌های ۵۷-۱۳۴۷ در دانشگاه‌های شیراز، تبریز، تهران و سرانجام، دانشکده‌ی حقوق دانشگاه ملی به تحصیل پرداخت و در ۱۳۶۲ برای ادامه‌ی تحصیلات عالی به پاریس عزیمت کرد. در سال ۱۹۹۲ به همت «استاد احسان یارشاطر»، میرفطروس به یکی از برجسته‌ترین ایران‌شناسان فرانسوی، «پروفسور ژان کالمار» معرفی شد و او با همین استاد در مدرسه‌ی مطالعات عالیه‌ی دانشگاه سوربن پاریس، دوره‌ی «D.E.A»(کارشناسی ارشد) را گذراند(۱۹۹۵)، در پایان همین سال، موضوع رساله‌ی دکترای میرفطروس با نام «جنبش‌های اجتماعی ایران در قرن‌های ۱۶-۱۵ میلادی: جنبش حروفیان و نهضت پسیخانیان» از سوی پروفسور ژان کالمار تأیید شد، ولی این رساله، به علت «مشکلات جان‌شکار» و در نتیجه، کوچ‌های اجباریِ میرفطروس، فرصت ارائه و دفاع نیافت، انتشار «کتاب‌شناسی و نقد منابعِ جنبش حروفیان» به زبان فرانسه(۱۹۹۴) و نشر فارسیِ بخش دیگری از این رساله، با نام «عمادالدّین نسیمی؛ شاعر حروفی»(چاپ اول: ۱۹۹۲، چاپ چهارم: ۲۰۰۹) در ۲۲۰ صفحه، غنای علمی و ارزش‌های آکادمیک این رساله‌ی دانشگاهی را عیان می‌کند.

از میرفطروس تا حال بیش از ۱۰ عنوان کتاب تاریخی – تحقیقی منتشر شده است که عموماً به چاپ‌های متعدد رسیده‌اند. به خاطر ارجگزاری به این کوشش‌ها و پژوهش‌های تاریخی، در سال ۲۰۰۴، دانشگاه «American Global University» به علی میرفطروس، درجه‌ی «دکترای افتخاری» اهدا کرد.

 //iranian.com/main/blog/bahmani/proper-use-dr-iranians

این میرفطروس عجب ککی به تنبون این مصدق چیا انداخته. حسابی‌ به خار خارک افتادن

Dear Aynak: Lovely

Dear Aynak: Lovely list...lol

Reform requires the consent of the corrupt

duplicate

duplicate

...

i was at a party in iran where everyone happened to be a "doctor."  needless to say, i don't know anyone of them by name.  they were introduced to me as "aghaye doctor" or "khanoom doctor."  whenever i said "aghaye doctor," half a dozen people turned to me.

i also find it ridiculous that p.h.d.s find a need to put the doctor in front of their names as to appeal to others as an authority on "everything." a phd is more knowledgeable (one hopes so) on his/her specialized degree than the average person, and not on every subject. 

however, i don't find it ridiculous for someone who has gotten a phd as bahmani is insinuating.  there is something called as intellectual curiosity or just plain interest in taking one's specialization to the edge of knowledge in his/her field of interest.  i understand that some people even scoff at a college education.  good for you that you don't like to go to college or have zero value for a phd.  that doesn't mean no one else gets value for a higher level of education.  two such values (other than interest to gain knowledge) are better wages and lower probability of unemployment (currently, professional degrees and phds have about 2.3% unemployment rate in the u.s.).

there are useless information to be gotten whether you go to high school, college, grad school or just plain illiterate.  bahmani, from your blog above, i think that you agree with that.

what gets me the nerve that chiropractors have to call themselves doctor.

Hello, I am mechanic Mehrdad

Or should I have said: Hello I am Mehrdad mechanic? to be proper.  Maybe I should use all of my titles, Hello, I am mechanic Mehrdad Najar

But in reality

It doesn't bother me when people use their profession (professor. Dr. or Mohandess) as a title and/or introduce themselves with such title as long as I don't have to call them in the same manner. I figure that is their prerogative, therefore I am mechanic Mehrdad but you can call me Mehrdad.

However,  I wonder who decided what is the "proper" way of using those terms as we are being told here?

My dad who taught in a university for some 30 odd years never heard him introduce himself or call himself as a professor nor my mom ever ask "Professor, buy some tomatoes on your way home".  Nor I ever heard my dad call my mom with her title: "Sepahboud Seemin, what is for dinner?"  You see, my mom was the absolute authority in the house.

'Hambastegi' is the main key to victory 

Mehrdad

Oh come on,don't hate me because I have a PhD

چو هرگز نیابی نشانی ز شوی
ز گهواره تا گور دانش بجوی! »

Next Fall, I am going back to college to earn a PhD degree in History ..

A totally different field of study for me but it is worth it ..  

Oh well .. it is back to the student life for me.  Perhaps, you are right it has to do with being in love with school more than anything else but it is a hard thing to achive and those who do so should be respected. 

What is bothering you about poeple with Ph.D.?

They surely know better in the area of their study more than most other people.  Of Course, Excluding PH.Ds in IRR.

Good point

I've been trying to correct people who use that left and right for some time now too, and I've had some odd reactions.

One was from a Hamid Dabbashi/Islamic-light faction type lick-boot, who told me she had a post-graduate degree and she should know better; at which point I had to remind her that I did too. She now uses "Professor Dabbashi" whenever she talks of the guy... : )

I actually never say Dr. Mossadeq or Dr. Bakhtiar, even though I hold major respect for both personalities. To me that's more of a character-assassination tool these days, as you always get the impression that the term Dr. is now mostly used by backward parents and family who are just proud of their brethren and absolutely want to put them in the highlight.

To be honest, my real-life doctor friends aren't any better as they usually come up with some of the most backward (or at least odd) things to say as well.

An example of that would be a medical doctor friend who once said he thought people with ailments "surely must have done something" to have been punished with those ailments! Imagine?

The same guy was watching the previous pope's funeral on TV once and said, "Look at them! What's the difference between him (meaning the dead pope) and Khomeyni? They hold so much respect for him and yet they loathe ours!"

Or, I have another one --this one being the cool, hip type who sometimes smokes a joint or two as well-- who once opened his mouth to say, "I understand why the sixties were so nice and why everyone lived peacefully, man! I mean, it's because there were no wars or anything during the sixties, so that's why everyone turned into hippies!"

Or, get a load of this one: This woman doctor I knew (also a medical doctor), who not only believed in voodoo and used to get all sorts of odd "magical" treatments for imaginary ailments she had, she made a rumor about me being a spy working for an online social-networking web site! Funny part was, many people believed her and dumped me off their list!

Last one (I have a load of these)-- was a few nights ago when we were dining with a couple of these gentlemen, and one turned around to say, in the middle of a political discussion: "Poor Shah, everybody told him 'who are you'. Nobody was there to ask them 'no, who are you?'"

I think we have one of the hardest, most complicated coming-of-age stages of any nation on earth, for some reason. Go figure...

Funny comment Aynak

in Iran of three four decades ago, having a title of Doctor or Mohandess was prestigious. I don't know if it is still the same.

Some of my favorite "Doctors"

Dr.Ahmadi Nejad

-- Known to have a highly compromised degree in traffic engineering, with the help of two others.   Interestingly enough his thesis  was stolen from someone else (so all 3 have questionable degrees).

It is said that when Ahmadi Nejad wanted to defend his thesis, due to lack of time (and knowledge) his advisor who later became a  minister, said:  "We all know Mr.Ahmadi Nejad well, let's say a Salavat and finsish this".  And since then the term  Doctor .Salavati has gotten a life of its own in Persian language.

Dr.Mohsen Rezaii:

No one knows what type of Doctorate Dr.Mohsen Rezai has, but it was certainly a leap from an unfinished 9th grade course work to a full fledge Doctorate.   Dr.Rezaii, respents the "sensible" wing of conservative,  and the smartest of them all.  (i.e IQ of 95 among the rest of theses  geniuses.

Dr.Radan:

--Bless his soul this liying cheating individual, got a Honarary Doctrate from Oxford!   Except Oxford had no idea about this.  The beauty of all of this in this regime was, after Dr.Ahamadi Nejad was faced with this in terms of a impeachment for Radan, he said, "Radan's work is worth 10 Phd's".  (i.e you Mother Fcking Majless memebers who can't even write your name down, now you are questioning a perfectly fake Phd degree?   for what?)

Last but not the  least:

--Dr Mirfetroos!!!   This one although not logistically not as importatn currently as rest of these bozo, has become the source of knowledge, investigation and research that is so obviously lacking in the Saltanat-Talab camp.   His "Honor Doctorate" from Global American University, (you can google this, for all the fake degrees associated with this institution), makes any of the Islamic Regimes waanna be's jealous!  

Doctor Aynak :)

What if

A man is an engineer in the military and his wife is a doctor?

Agha Timsar Mohandes Doctor???

Or is that crying for attention?

How about Inheriting Titles, that sounds very Iranian, 

New Rule, you can use your parents and grand parents titles.

Just out of curiousity...

Why should it be a problem that someone adds the Dr. title to his/her name? It is not like they go around and force people to notice their name or pay them extra respect. It is their prerogative to use a certain title or not.

Now if a person has more respect for people with titles than for those with none, then it actually says more about that person than the title holder.

But I agree with PN's assertion about the Mrs. inheriting husband's title. I wonder if a man married to a woman doctor he would also call himself Agha Doktor :)

.

.

:)))

Not only that, in case the Dr. is a married man the wife must be called Mrs. Dr. too :)))))))))))))))))))))))))

The same goes with Mohandes and Mrs. Mohandes :)))))))))))) Do you remember Khanoom Timsaars?:))))))))))))))))))))

When we or at least I am done with ridiculing those people, we should get to the bottom of the problem, which might be rooted in our forced transition from feudalism to some other form of ism........according to one of my friends  Dr. jaame'e shenaas.

Can I most humbly ask you to write a blog on our Perrrrrrrrrzhen habbit of staring at people, too?................Ukhhhhhhhhhh

And in case JJ shows up to remind you about the daily ration of blogs, just say: " chashm aaghaye mohandes." Hopefully he'll ease up on you and your good blogs........................