Via Chris Davis

Ari,

Thanks for asking, I did not use stylometry to figure out the drastically different styles of writing posted under the name, FRED. I will explain it and hopefully demonstrate it with details soon. I'm busy now.

humanbeing

For what it's worth I have extended stylometric tehchniques to video posts and determined that Darius Kadivar is at least two different persons (statistical methods are applicable due to the large volume of available ouevres).

For example Darius' video posts in this blog reveal two entirely different takes on how to demonstrate loyalty to a leader. A crowd of midgets standing up to say "I'm the Black Fox" would hardly fool Crassus. Similarly, Roman slaves dancing between Kirk Douglas' legs is no way to protect his anonymity.  Time for Darius to lose the hat.  

Dear Chris - Where is the beef?

I agreed with your description of Fred and DK on Elaheh Enssani, but to say that you have proof of something

"I am in the process of writing a larger article, due to my identification the real identity of Fred and a few others on this forum who constantly attack NIAC and propagate a pro-Israeli agenda. Without revealing too much, I have also identified the New York based PR firm that pays and trains "Fred.........""

and that you will reveal it later is an old tactic (parvandeh-saazi) that Iranians are very familiar with and will not stand for it, as you see from the volume of comments on this site and elsewhere.  So, if you have the proof(s), we would appreciate if you reveal it/them now.  Maybe you should have waited until you wrote the article first.

ps mehrdad

i would have posted the article (it came out today) but it is in the opinion section most of those don't get translated into english. 

hope such publicistic interference is not also like bull in a china shop, paradoxically. it was written with good intentions by a very smart man.

but this thread is about solidarity, not arguing for or against bombing.

now that's a blog that would get me rehooked on icom, ari

if someone applied sinclair and coulthard's forensic discourse analysis, as well as systematic stylometric technigues to the different icom members in order to 'out' them.

but no accusations of iri/apac.

just personal style and idiolect. icomers are individuals. we'd all get to know each other better.

we could do it like strip poker. every time some multi-avatar user gets exposed in one of his idiosyncratic language usages (english or persian), he has to change his avatar by exposing one more layer of his camouflage.

in the end we'd all be bare and exposed, like darius always is. then we could see how much integrity we'd have.

Mola

I found it out for myself by
observing the drastically different styles of writing (in English and
Farsi/Persian languages) presented under this name brand.

You may know that the technique is known as stylometry . In the link see for example the concept of "writer invariant."  If you've done this sort of analysis on Freds' writings--even if it is your own home made technique--it would  make interesting reading if you presented it--and it would be within the bounds of fair play. Forensic linguistics has been used as in courts of law (for example in the unabomber case). Here is more detailed info if you're serious about strengthening your hypothesis regarding multiple Freds. As far as I know, the only times we do something similar in Farsi is to nail down authorship in classical poetry. Your efforts would probably be the first political application for Iranians.

No.

Chris, if you look down the thread you will easily see that the majority take issue with any categorizaton of Darius as a 'neo-Con.'  Left, right, center, either they defend him or ignore that part of your blog, and focus on Fred. And if you are fair, you will just have to accept that this is a reasonable statistical sampling. Apparently DK doesn't want to dignify the blog with a full reply but I will just throw in that DK voted for Karoubi and was very vocal about it. I could go on and on but I won't. I pretty much think this paragraph has said enough.

Regarding Fred, I won't enter into that debate. To my understanding the bottom line prerequisite for being a neo-Con is wanting war, as first declared in the PNAC 'manifesto'. (Overcome the 'Viet Nam' syndrome). I can't really figure out where Fred stands on this because a) from what I've read he seems to skirt the issue, and b) I haven't read him regularly long enough.

The reason I haven't read him regularly is because the various times I've tried to engage him in a friendly way I have been unsuccessful, But just because he isn't a nice guy unless you praise his views to the skies doesn't mean he's a Neo-con in sensu strictu. I leave it to greater and more knowledgeable minds to resolve this issue (or more likely, not...).

But as regards DK, you're waaaaay off base and imho the proof of the pudding is on this thread. And given that you're brand new and DK is an institution here, I feel it would've been more appropriate to bring up this topic to DK on political threads and waited a bit to write the blog. Kind of 'uncool'. Therefore,  the same should've applied to Fred.

Thanks Humanbeing for good analysis and write up

Also thanks for doing your part to prevent this mad war between our nations.  The truth and reality is that if such mad war going to happen, only innocent people on both side will have to pay for it.  Neither AN nor Natanyaho will ever be affected.

Mehrdad

No need to "expose" anyone

Everyone is doing what they think is right. No one under any circumstances should find them guilty because of differences in ideologies or methodologies.

People are smart enough to find their ways in the long run. Everyone should focus on their path and try to learn the ways of others and why. Nothing more. I find these kinds of accusations and notes silly.

Human being hear it from a shotor

Please read the comment by BaronAvak a few comments below . He writes:

"It is more than clear to anyone familiar with neo-con playbook of lies and cheap tricks that "Fred" is a paid group of individuals who monitor this site 24-7 and post explicit pro-Israel and anti-Iranian spam propaganda on this site in order to influence both Iranian opinions and the opinions of non-Iranian viewers of this site who seek to know what Iranians think."

Fred is a Brand name used by an organization who writes in English and Farsi/Persian using different writers and produces a few blog enteries on a daily basis. I found it out for myself by observing the drastically different styles of writing (in English and Farsi/Persian languages) presented under this name brand.

humanbeing: on DK

"this site would be barren without him."

Indeed ! 

Low blow !

If there's such expression in English, that is. If there isn't, well, replace with unsubstantiated.

same old same old. zzzzzzzzzzz.

are you guys doing the same old 'this one is a paid iri operative' 'that one is a paid aipac operative' conspiracy theory? can't think of a new motif? frankly it's boring.

that's one of the reasons i find fb so much more innovative and culturally satisfying than i.com lately. sad to say. and that's a really low benchmark. i loved this site. was addicted. and i still do miss some of the cultural, literary, pop-culture, socio-, feminist-chauvinist stuff.

okay i don't agree with some of dk's politics. i think we were able to find common ground for respectful discussion. why does everything have to be so bipartisan?

darius kadivar is nobody's paid anything. i take personal offense at this.

dk's nostalgic blogs are part of a contribution to the cultural tableau of modern iran, pop iran, personal iran. it's not all political, not all agenda. and some is. are the rest of you guys agenda-less? try to be objective. dk also tries to introduce some non-iranian stuff in his cultural blogs. in good times these blogs promote rapprochement among iranians of different political persuasions on a non-political theme.  they also bring another exocentric perspective with which to do comparisons and contrasts and to make a more complex discourse.

 the most unexpected reaction on this thread, i must admit, is sargord, who did admit to the value of dk's links and clips in a comment here. sargord you've come a long way.  

all of you (many hiding behind noms de plume -- yes, including myself, peccavi) lumping dk with others who don't give ids are being very unfair.

if some speak about a manipulative ploy used by mercenary bloggers (get over that phobia, will ya) you are doing a half-truth yourselves by lumping two unrelated phenomena. and doing this i fear because you perceive of fred and dk as in the same camp, which you see in very crude dichotomies at the same time as hairsplitting within the two 'sides'. i should hope you see the individual subtleties of difference.

i don't say this as a condescending outsider. i care about the future of your country and have just twisted someone near and dear's arms to write an article in haaretz against bombing iran. on grounds of military impotence and imcompetence as well as humanitarian grounds, and the fear of people rallying around the iri in reaction. he will get toasted by the military censor, and i will get toasted here merely for bringing this up (i don't even know what dk's opinion is on this). but we all do controversial stuff because we care. so does dk.

yes, dk loves his country, yes he blogs a lot more than many of you and is very passionate about his agenda and opinions, yes he plasters the place with posters of the pahlavi family. to accuse him of being a mercenary for giving so much of his time to this site, instead of thanking him for his generosity is cynical and ungrateful. dk creates a discourse on many other levels.

this site would be barren without him. 

example

مشایی: هدف ما از اين پس معرفی مكتب ايران است نه مكتب اسلام

sargord

yes indeed. the fascist is full of meaningless slogans. i hardly ever read him, and am surprised at q, mammad and others with so much to contribute, wasting their precious time on refuting his repetitive chants and in the process giving him a higher profile.

ignoring the fool would be my approach. we have far more important issues to talk about.

Peace

NP, check out the petty

NP, check out the petty rants below offered by the character "Fred".

There's no way a PR firm is employing such a guttural effort as that. If it is, they're really throwing their money away!

sargord

interesting observations! i didn't realise anyone took fred seriously. i always saw him as our resident fascist intent on diplaying his madness on a daily basis.

Peace

You got bupkis

Ok Via NIAC Chris Davis, you made your charge against me and apparently you got nothing, bupkis.

You are nothing but a journalist wannabe with an Anti-Iran pro Islamist Rapist agenda. Till the moment you post the info which you said you have

“I have also identified the New York based PR firm that pays and trains "Fred." 

You will be called a lefty thug willing to work for the most unsavory of causes including those who in the name of being Anti-war support, condone and whitewash the crimes of Islamist Rapist Republic.

Since you cite NIAC lobby name all the time and your connection to its lifetime president, it is on NIAC lobby to disown you or else you are one of their hired guns.

Put up Mr. Via NIAC lobby Chris Davis  

Ari

Thank you for sort of taking your “generalization” back, kind of, although a straight I was in error would have been more in tune with an intellectual honesty.

As to your

“still ain't right to take the fight outside the ring” I wonder if that applies to your NIAC lobby which accepts funding from “outside the ring”

 Or the Islamist Rapist “reformers” in the sane world who no doubt will do that much awaited “mini Badr” that Tabari wrote about the bloody original one, their source of income and funding is not from “outside the ring”?

Populism does not jive with reality.

Pas-e-pardeh, that's

Pas-e-pardeh, that's actually a valid observation. I'm obviously not an activist. Even when I'm not providing an insight of expertise, I don't usually express an identifiable form of political advocacy. That's simply because I don't have one. For example, I voted Green in the last election. (I'll probably always vote for the more liberal candidate party.) But I accept the election results, and I am in no way a subversive.

I can sometimes be swayed by rational discussion, which seems to be a rare commodity here at IC. The "Fred" character, on the other hand, simply screams in one direction. There's no discussion. This is why, if he/they really are being paid for what they do, it's a pretty crummy effort. It lacks substance. It isn't engaging.

You know, for all of Fred's presence here at IC, we know next to nothing about him. He's been doing this for years, but who is Fred? Do we know where he grew up in Iran? Schools he attended. Family history? No. We don't know the first thing about this character. At least in Darius' case, he's been open about these things, as have I. But about the Fred character, we know nothing.

It'll be interesting to see if a PR firm is identified for "Fred". He was awfully defensive about it, in this post's very first comment. Myself, I'd have laughed it off. But apparently for this Fred character, it's a really big deal. 

Funny how "Sargord Pirouz" immediately ...

I wonder about you dear Sargord too sometimes.  You are too smart and too eloquent to be a true believer in IRI (with it's 12th Imam & blatant hypocracies).  Yet, you are here all the time chipping away at anyone who opposes IRI and their policies.  You might even be a staff of propagandists.

If so,  you haven't made much headway in the months that you've been here.  I know your most important goal is to demonstrate a "presence"; to suggest that there are some rational people who wholeheartedly support IRI, and that this debate is normal and not about a blatant, rapist dictatorship.  That you have succeeded in doing.  As far as converts?  I doubt any.

So, if I were an IRI propagandist, I think I'll fire anyone who came up with this "sargord" schtik.  

Funny how "Fred" immediately

Funny how "Fred" immediately sprang into action the moment this post appeared.

I thought Fred was just some B rated kook, but maybe some of you folks are right. I usually refrain from conspiracy theories, but I have to admit it may be a possibility.

If the "Fred" character is a plant, maybe even a multi-person plant, all I can say is whoever manages him/them, they hired persons really not qualified for the job. The effort isn't worth the premium it supposedly commands.

Darius, on the other hand, is more sophisticated. Wherras in Fred's blogs, where there is seldom if anything substantive, at least in Darius' case, the historical and cultural collages and YouTube links are sometimes (not always) interesting.

If I were a PR firm, I'd be somewhat satisfied with the efforts of Darius. But I'd surely fire the staff of "Fred"! 

Dear Chris, please email me,

I may have a more productive and effective way for us to pursue these chronic abuses: qumars@gmail com

Also, if I didn't make this clear. I don't think Kadivar belongs in the set with Fred. He's not in the same league and that's to his credit.

BaronArk, respectuflly, I think you're barking up the wrong tree. I am sure Javid doesn't get paid by these people at all. I know how he thinks. He is probably promoting FredCo only because he wants to be "balanced". Why he didn't extend the same coutesy the US Military, and the anti Bahai people, is beyond me. He's not always consistent, but making a martyr outof FredCo will only encourage him more.

"Fred" is Obviously Fake and Multiple Users

It is more than clear to anyone familiar with neo-con playbook of lies and cheap tricks that "Fred" is a paid group of individuals who monitor this site 24-7 and post explicit pro-Israel and anti-Iranian spam propaganda on this site in order to influence both Iranian opinions and the opinions of non-Iranian viewers of this site who seek to know what Iranians think. 

The more important question is how this could possibly go on without the knowledge of the proprietor of this site.  I have noticed over the past decade of following this site that the content has become more and more politicized, and more and more biased in it's sentiments against Iran's present government.

Could it be the proprietor of this site is receiving ad dollars or other financial incentives to allow these anti-Iranian parties to use this site and its blog / comment features as a platform to legitimize its anti-Iranian aims of war and sanctions on Iran? 

Jahanshah Javid should answer as to: (1) who he thinks this "Fred" is, and (2) why he is tolerating a virtual spammer anti-Iran propagandist to use his site as a platform to advocate anti-Iran actions from defaming Iranian-American advocacy groups in the US to supporting bombing Iran itself.

Prince Reza is very kind to his subject

See how he treats them

Show some respect

Regarding the monarchist that can be anyone in the whole wide world for the purposes of this article, I will tell you this and without any formalities:

the brother hasn't been laid, OK?  What do you expect from him?  He's hoping maybe his Prince will let him one day __(censored)______  one of the three Snowwhites (in reference to Snowhite and the 7 Dwarfs).  The prince might be so kind to let his Snowhite be with 7 monarchist dwarfs.

 So next time you get angry, just think of the prince's wife "Snowhite" and the others that annoy you as the 7 Dwarfs.

"Via Chris Davis" an American journalist???

Dude, you either are, as we say in Iran, a donkey or you take us for donkeys. Your English in the main blog is certainly not good enough for a journalist, while it is significantly improved in your reply entitled: " Always on the Attack".

Now to your blog post. As a "journalist", you should know that you don't give away parts of your killer article immaturely. Garbage lines like I know their identities but am not going to reveal them at this moment, or I know a certain PR group that pays that guy but will expose them soon, are more like jokes made by high school students. If you know something and have proof for your statements, print them. Otherwise, don't waste our time with this BS.

I have occasionally read Fred and Kadivar's postings and have no special opinions about them. However, if you think they are spreading lies about NIAC or any other organization, put forward the facts and then ask them to explain themselves. This is how a real journalist would do. 

In the very first reply to your blog, Fred gave you the permission to reveal any personal information you have on him and the name of the PR firm that supposedly pays him. If you are sincere in your posting, I would like to see the same thing as well. So please, whenever you make another comment in this blog, PLEASE reveal these information.

I don't believe in god, otherwise I would have said: May God pay your daily needs somewhere else.

don't lump the two together

While I know neither Fred nor Kadivar personally, I think it is unfair to talk about them as both being somehow the same.

Fred is controversial and I never liked him because, well ... he is a jerk.  It wouldn't surprise me if he were paid to rile things up or to stick a spoke in a wheel.

Darius Kadivar, on the other hand, comes across as a genuine patriot full of love for Iran.  His favoring monarchy and Pahlavi's should not be construed in any way as a sign of his insincerity.  I will defend his rights and honor.

Chris, you started this provocative post by saying "without revealing too much".  You are slandering two bloggers (& people).  How can you get away with skipping the evidence part?  Please, do reveal what you have uncovered. 

Take your blood pressure medication and relax

To quote one of the people I despise (Ahmadinejad), the people you are worried about are no better than a used toilet paper.

 Regarding the monarchist, who shall remain unnamed and for the purposes of this article can be anyone, that individual ain't got much going for him.  You think AIPAC and neo-cons would in any which way rely on a guy that spends the great majority of his time watching and posting YouTube videos.  I mean, atleast, if you understand the power of AIPAC and neo-cons, it would be foolish of you to underestimate their power.  So, think again.  AIPAC would find no use for the likes of the people you mentioned. 

Dear Chris, about Kadivar

You're absolutely right about attacking the messenger. This is almost predictable. Anybody can go down the line right here and see about each comment, does it

1. Address the substance or arguement
2. Attack the blogger and create conspiracy theories
3. Complete nonsequitor in order to change topic or waste time.

the usual suspects, who cannot handle the substance, opt for numbers 2 and 3.

However, I need to object to your putting together Fred and Kadivar in your title.

FredCo is an absolute professional propagandist obviously in posession of great time and resources and blogs with clock-work efficiency using well understood modern public relation techniques.

Darius Kadivar is rather an independent minded Monarchist. He is on a mission, but he is basically just like anybody else in his conduct. His particular mission, is of course destructive to iran, in my opinion, and I can't be the only one otherwise, there would be no need for the propaganda.

He used to be actually very level-headed, and on several occasions acknowledged and regretted problems with the Monarcy and with Pahlavi as Shah. I believe it was after his meeting with Farah Pahlavi a couple of years ago that he decided he must now embark on a crusade to refamiliarize Iranians with the "glory" and "glamour" of the Pahlavi Monarchy.

It's an admirable technique which draws contrast between present despair in realism and longs nostalgically for the idealized history of the Pahlavis. The user 'Tepesh' does the same thing and a few other Monarchists who are hoping for some kind of Kingly revival, to fish in the politics of "abe gel alood" (muddy waters).

The problem is once a person enters a "campaign" like this, he/she ceases to be objective. Because you are trying to influence opinion, you cannot be objective in the slightest way. This is why it's so easy to tell "campaigners", be they Monarchist, pro-Israel, Bahai, anti-Bahai or pro-IRI. They don't sound like human beings, they sound like machines, or leaflets being dropped from airplanes.

Everything has to be for the cause of the operation and every issue ceases to be evaluated from the point of view of a normal human being and starts being evaluated from the eye of a strategist. This is why you no longer hear the slightest negative hint about the Monarchy from Kadivar.

Monarchists, just like FredCo, do see NIAC and "peace" oriented policies as unacceptable rivals. They flatly say that one cannot enter into any kind of "talk" with Iran, which of course is the neocon position which is pro-War by implication.

All three groups lose if peace is achieved without regime change, therefore all three groups are in effect playing with millions of lives in Iran just so they advance their political agenda. They may claim they don't want "war" but so did Bush and Cheney, while at the same time making sure every other alternative was destroyed.

See here, what I mean about lack of objectivity and "campaign mode" thinking.
//iranian.com/main/blog/q/case-study-defa...