Persian Realm

Jamshid: The entitiy, Q's,

Jamshid: The entity, Q's, particular brand of propaganda/screed/ rant/ is called reductio ad absurdum, meaning when cornerd, reducing the argument to absurdities. Reductio ad absurdum and it is usually used to defend the status quo. Disturbing and annoying are his lack of empathy and embarrassingly feeble attempt at grandiosity.

Reductio ad absurdum: In formal logic, the reductio ad absurdum is a legitimate argument. It follows the form that if the premises are assumed to be true it necessarily leads to an absurd (false) conclusion and therefore one or more premises must be false. The term is now often used to refer to the abuse of this style of argument, by stretching the logic in order to force an absurd conclusion.

P.S> Certain blue-haired entity uses the same techniques almost 100% of the times.

MM khan

how many did shah kill?

or are you only keeping one score?

#s killed = 4485-30000 - Khomeini is still Mousavi's hero - LOOK

Massacre of 1988 in Iran: “The peak of atrocity was however a death-fatwa in summer of 1988 issued by Grand Ayatollah Rouhollah Khomeini, the founder of the IRI.  The fatwa was initially targeted against the MKO ……. but soon was accompanied by another fatwa ordering to massacre any political prisoner who refused to repent and cooperate with the regime. Until September of 1988, the executions continued in Evin prison in Tehran and other prisons of Iranian cities with all atrocity.”

Murdering Fatwa in summer of 1988: Khomeini ordered the following: "Those who are in prisons throughout the country and remain committed to their support for the [Mujahedeen], are waging war on God and are condemned to execution.... Destroy the enemies of Islam immediately. As regards the cases, use whichever criterion that speeds up the implementation of the [execution] verdict."

Numbers killed range from some 4485 names published in the opposition media up to 30000 executions, as estimated.

“The historical justification of the massacre has roots in the epoch of the Prophet Muhammad when he came up with the idea that it is perfectly legitimate to kill “unbelievers” --the teaching of the Koran confirms it: "Those who resist Allah and his messenger will be humbled to dust”: the Koran 58-5. Or: "I will instil terror into the hearts of the unbelievers”. The Koran 8-12.”  This verse is also the justification for the murder of Muslims who do not believe in the system and who do not repent.

Q

My comment was deleted, so I will rephrase it again here: Your method of reverting to "hochi gari" and "tamaskhor" when cornered with an undisputed fact that works against the regime, such as the 8000 excecuted in the late 80s, won't work with the readership of this site.

If you have something to say or have a document that disputes this fact, then present it. Again, "hochi gari" does not work in here.

Reza pahlavi

I am amazed to read some people compare Reza with Mossadeq. IMO there's
no comparison. Reza is a highly educated guy who's had the chance of
being a very careful observer of many political scenes in his recent
life. Iranians should be absolutely privileged to have a guy like him
to lead the country or be the symbol of our country. I am not talking
about going back to a regime like the ex Shah's, but a unique regime
which does recognize Reza as a start up process.

The only thing which worries me about Reza is that he may be too
liberal in his attitudes towards people since many people in Iran have
not had the taste of real political freedom so they may turn the
affairs into an anarchy.

Btw, in the future a stronger nationalist government will be the way, but for now he will do a better job than anyone out there.

Jamshid, it was not "8000 innocent Iranians"

as I have pointed out, all the available evidence showed that the number executed were more than 8 million and they were all innocent babies still in the cradle. Supreme Leader Mousavi personally pulled the trigger on every single execution himself. Honest, it took over 2 years of continuous shooting!

Just want to point out this fact so at least you have one in your arsenal.

Come on Jamshid, tell it like it is!

Mammad, additional questions

You complain about a photo that includes both shah and mossadegh. What are your views about videos that show Mousavi interviewing with a photo of Khomeini in the background?

You wrote,

"I take Mir Hossein Mousavi any moment over your heros. He has not fled the nation with stolen wealth of the nation, having a comfortable life in Paris and the US, and still lives in a rental apartment and drives a 15 year old car!"

Your argument is flawed.

First, you failed to mention that he was also prime minister when more than 8000 innocent young Iranians were executed right under his nose. Which is a bigger flaw? Living a comfortable life or having been the prime minister during one of the picks of IRI execution spree?

Second, one could say that Khomeini lived even more modestly than Mousavi. So does that mean that if Khomeini was alive today, you would have chosen Khomein over RP? I think the answer is yes. I think "you would pick Khomeini any moment over RP."

And what does that tell us about you?

If you would pick RP over Khomeini, then say it and I would apologize to you for having the audacity to "guess" your answer.

Mammad

"Those who want to make peace should first and foremost acknowledge the crime committed against Dr. Mosaddegh and Iran by the monarchists and their masters."

Mammad, you are static and stucked in the past. You are filled with "oghdeh" and hatred that badly plagues your intellect. You are incapable to understand that the monarchists and mossadeghis of more than 50 years ago are DEAD and GONE. They do not exist today. Those who must acknowledge anything are long dead.

Just like any other groups, today's monarchists and jebehey melli have evolved as well. Name one Jebehey Melli leader that would fall for the likes of Khomeini again. Reza Pahalavi is nothing like his father. Both supporters have evolved too. This applies to communists and even Islamists like yourself.

Today's Monarchists, Mossadeghis, republicans, communists and others should NOT flame divisons based on the sins of their collective fathers. Instead, they should be talking about their common interests and values and how they can cooporate to make a better Iran.

But then there are people like you who are stucked in the past and just can't let go, and who live, breath and spread "kineh va nefrat va enteghaam." You are the type that brings "hate and kineh varzi" into every subject and destroy any chances of unity and spirit of coorporation by reopening the old wounds of the past.

The photo showing Shah, Bakthiar, Mossadegh and Reza Pahlavi, all together (it should include even more past leaders), is what the future should be about, i.e., about our common values and interests in both secularism and progress.

But I know this is too large a pill to swallow for people like you who are stucked in the past and burn in the fever of "nefrat varzi va kineh varzi". On the other hand, in such possible bright future where we can start new beginnings by focusing on today and the future and our similarities and common values, people like you who can't let go of the past would be considered obsolete.

To Monarchists... Flaws of monarchy revisited...

I liked RP's responses, but please stop patting him on the back. My 20 years old cousin could have said all the things RP said, only better.

As always, he is dull, ineffective and without the slightest charsima. RP could be considered as the prime argument for the inherent flaws in monarchy.

I do believe he is a good and decent man. He could even be a decent king, but only under normal circumenstances. And today's cirucmenstances are FAR from being normal.

He has a good vision, but lacks the leadership qualities that are needed to take the country back from the mollahs. And this is not his fault. We are all born with certain talents and certain flaws. It is in our genes, which are given to us at birth.

Do you see why monarchy is a flawed system? Because it relies on inheritance, which itself is flawed. Why isn't there a monarchic body today that could remove RP from throne due to his failure to produce anything of significance after 30 years, and replace him with another Pahlavi family member who is more charismatic, more courageous, more firey, more talented, more creative and more willing to work against the likes of mollahs?

Monarchy is failing us already, even today in our fight against the mollahs. And you want us to believe that it will work in the future? First prove its advantages TODAY as opposed to in a free future Iran.

And what can you true monarchists do about this issue anyway? NOTHING. You are stucked with a genuinely good man but an incompetent leader for today's needs.

There are two arguments you cannot use against these issues. First, you cannot say that I am biased against the Pahlavis. I can show tons of comments in this very site that would prove you wrong.

Second, you cannot use Spain, Japan or Belgium as examples. Monarchy is successful in these countries, but the list of qualifications for their kings would be short, as none of them are required to fight against a deadly entity called IRI.

Face it. Reza Pahlavi is a decent man with good democratic visions, but he is not a leader and can't handle today's needs. But even more importantly, we can't do a damn thing about it. And there lays yet another flaw in monarchy.

maziar, maziar, calm down a

maziar, maziar, calm down a bit! "marg bar""?? Just because I expressed an opinion you did not like? Who is your role model? Shaban bi mokh? I mean he was after all very religious and close to mullahs as well as a true Shah parast!

..........

fooladi, fooladi marg be neyrang tu  !

what a non-sence comparison.       Maziar

Actually Reza Shah Jr! and

Actually Reza Shah Jr! and Mehdi Khamenei should become good friends, if they are not already. As one day they will be sitting together in one of those kebab shops in westwood, LA and lament about the good ol days when their daddies used to kill, rape and rob Iranian masses so their little boys would be safe!

Nice talking to you...

I know you are not a monarchist, and by now you should know I'm not a Mosaddeqi. And maybe that's the problem. Some of us are only a bunch of "not"s. Then, who are we?

An angry crowd, only? Maybe!

And, you are right, integrity, and politics are incompatible.

Re: Thermopolitics

I am not a Monarchist. I did say that Mossadegh was a patriot but I think he did over reach and overplay his hand. That made him lose and made us lost.

For some reason our patriotic politicians don't seem very good at politics. They keep getting stomped over. From Amir Kabir to Mossadgeh and on. Their integrity is often their downfall. We need people with integrity who also know how to play to game and to win.

Thermopolitics

What prompted me was your mentioning of Mosaddeq. I am not a die-hard fan of either of them. I know enough of both of them, in order to dismiss the Monarchists biased opinions against them. That's all.

I do remember, however, Bazargan's insistence to have MKO participate in election, in stead of outlawing them. If you remember, that move alone could have been sufficient for the "thermodynamic" of the day!

Re: Calling Bazargan an idiot is

Why not? Bazargan used to claim to prove God's existance using thremodynamics. I spoke to his students. The guy neither understood thernodynamics nor thoelogy. The man was an embarassment to engineers. The problem was that those days Iranians were easily impressed. 

Big titles or impressive names were enough to get people all melting over some over puffed big mouth. Bazargan's performance by itself is proof that he was incompetent and unfit.

The biggest proof is that he expected integrity out of Khomeini. The degree of naivete and ignorance required to trust one like Khomeini should prove that Bazargan has no place in government.

VPK

Calling Bazargan an idiot is

Calling Bazargan an idiot is not that fair. Mosaddeq, however, had no close relationship with Bazargan. As a matter of fact he didn't appoint Bazargan as the Minister of Education in his cabinet for his religious inclinations.

Mossadegh

I used to have a great deal of respect for Dr Mossadegh. But then reality hit me. I realized that Bazargan was a close ally of him. Now anyone who would have an idiot Islamist like Bazargan that close could not have very sound judgment.

Sure Dr Mossadegh was a patriot. But his judgment was flawed. And so to the extreme. He was unable to hold against the British and worse he had allies like Bazargan. In fact the performance of Jebhe Melli has been so poor that I would be ashamed of any association with them. 

At least RP is not surrounded by a bunch of Islamist fanatics. That's got to count for something.

I am willing to debate with Mr. Sahimi Quite Openly if he wishes

On ALL the Questions he Raised ...

Openly and Without Hypocrisy if he is willing to take up the challenge.

Not tonight cause it is late at this side of the Atlantic but I am willing to do so in a near future if we can get our clocks tuned.

I am busy this coming week but I think it could be an interesting challenge for both of us and for the ideas we defend respectively and in the open.

Let me know what you think ?

Got to go to bed sorry for cutting it short !

DK

Mr Kadivar

بار دیگر از شما به خاطر زحمتی که در این سایت وزین می‌کشید تشکر می‌کنیم.

این میر حسین موسوی هیچ شباهتی به آن امیر ندارد که کبیر هم باشد ! این از همان دسته جاسوسان رادیکال اسلامیست که دستش در قتل‌های سالهای ۶۰ خورشیدی کاملا برملا گشته است.

خدا را صد هزار کررور شکر که دست کثیف چپ و کمونیست به ایران نرسید و در آینده هم نخواهد رسید.

همیشه پاینده باشید.

Mohammad Sahimi

Sorry I didn't know who you are and that I really don't care. But bear in mind that this blog is about several young activists inside Iran, including supporter of Moosavi, who risk their life for talking to Reza Pahlavi. It's not about you.

Mammad Jaan oh So I was right You Are Dr. Sahimi ... ;0)

Thank You that is all I wanted to know ...

LOL

DK

First of all, I am a chemical and petroleum engineering and materials science professor, not chemistry. Before you comment on what I may or may not know, at least learn the difference which is vast, or not comment on it that would make me chuckle.

Secondly, if you study Iran's contemporary history, you will see that some of the most important figures, whether it was during the Shah (both in his system and in the opposition), and after the revolution, and even now, were and are engineers. A few years ago, the editors of five leading newspapers in Tehran, both conservative and reformist, were chemical engineers in fact! Look at the people in exile who are politically active to see how many of them are engineer!

Third, I am absolutely positively proud of my 2001 article, right after your hero had implied that Tehran should be bombed in his opportunism of the moment. You wrote a response to it and even e-mail it to me.

Fourth, I take Mir Hossein Mousavi any moment over your heros. He has not fled the nation with stolen wealth of the nation, having a comfortable life in Paris and the US, and still lives in a rental apartment and drives a 15 year old car!!

Fifth, if Mousavi has done anything of the sort that you claim, he too has made a mistake. People like me do not have a brotherhood pact with anybody. We only support anybody so long as he/she takes steps in the direction of defending and expanding people's right.

Sixth, Ebadi is a family friend of over 30 years. I disageree with her regarding many things. What is your problem with Ebadi? That she is not willing to recognize RP as the "symbol" or "leader," or that she has made it clear that she was and still is opposed to monarchism?

Seventh, so what that Shirin was made a judge by the Shah? Who said that the Shah did not do anything useful? He did. But, his illegitimate rule after 1953 and his dark dictatorship of 1960s and 1970s were the prime culprit for where we are now, and ruined anything good that he did for the nation. It was him who kept Iranians in the dark by not tolerating a free press, true political parties, founding the quasi-fascist Rastakhiz party (and telling people, "If you do not like this, get your passport and leave Iran"), .... Things are not created in a vacuum. Just because you fantasize about something, it does it make it so.

Eight, what is your version of history? Mosaddegh and the Pahlavis in one place in the name of peace? What peace? With whom?

Ninth, that you know my full name is not a revelation! Anyone who cares to know does know!

Mammad

benross Jaan Don't be surprised by Mammad aka Mohammad Sahimi

He has an Expert Opinion on Reza Pahlavi and Iran's History in general ...

Dream on:Monarchists and international terrorism by Mohammad Sahimi (November 2, 2001)

I suppose Dr. Sahimi's expertise in Chemistry must speak tons about his knowlegde of explosives and how to concieve Cocktail Molotovs as much as his unique insights in Political Science ...LOL

According to Mr. Sahimi's Logic I suppose Mir Hossein Moussavi has e all the right to relate to Amir Kabir and Tune with the Qajar Anthem to promote himself and His Bidary ( aka Awakeness) but Iran's Legitimate Crown Prince and his followers are Not qualified to Speak in the name of Iran's Constitutional History ...

It's All OK to see Islamists Highjack Our Monarchical History and see Ahmadinejad Hail Cyrus the Great while wiping the names of  all Iranian Kings from History School Books and demand our Crown Prince not to Claim any Legitimacy to his rightful Crown  ...

BeeKhial Benross Jaan it's Called Islamic ANN TELECTUALISM !

LOL

Just don't remind him that his Joon Joony Shirine Ebadi was named Judge Under the Pahlavis only to be stripped of that Right under the IRI.

Yes, I do have a problem

DK should stick with his own "heros" Reza Shah, Mohammad Reza Shah, RP, and former empress Farah - that he always promotes and advocates, and leave Dr. Mosaddegh, who is a hero of those who consider the CIA coup as anti-Iran and the Iranian collaborators of it as committing crime and treason against Iran, alone.

When Rpnald Reagan was running as President, he invoked the FDR several times. Finally, he was told to leave FDR alone for those who really believed in him, not those like Reagan who were trying to scuttle all he had done for the US. Reagan had the decency to stop doing it.

Abusing a true hero like Dr. Mosaddegh in the name of "peace" is absurd, to put it extremely politely. Those who want to make peace should first and foremost acknowledge the crime committed against Dr. Mosaddegh and Iran by the monarchists and their masters. Then, one can talk about true peace, not a bogus one out of desperation.

Mammad

DK puts all those characters

DK puts all those characters together in the spirit of peace. You have a problem with that?

I'm glad you have. 

Is this poster real?

Mohammad Reza Shah, RP, and Dr. Mohammad Mosaddegh all in one poster? You must be kidding!

Shahollahies hate Dr. Mosaddegh. MRP himself despised Dr. Mosaddegh. RP has never admitted the illegality and anti-Iran nature of the CIA coup that overthrew Dr. Mosaddegh, but now we see all of them in one picture or poster?

That just goes to show the desperation and bankruptcy of the this bunch.

This reminds me of the AIPAC Mofioso on this site who wrote a whole blog based on what Mehdi Bazargan had said about confession in the IRI, even though the Mafioso always attacks Bazargan and lies about him.

Mammad

Figures, RP isn't cool

Figures, RP isn't cool enough to use an Apple laptop.

Goes to show your character

Goes to show your character which is fine with me.

Benross , Quite correct-ed . A tragi-comedy

Assuming that your post was addressed to mine....

A tragi-comedy and a horrific farce in many ways... (as you know I "meant")