Disenchanted

"Iranians got

"Iranians got independence"???LOL 

Disenchanted, are you sure you're not capt, Ayhab???

Reform requires the consent of the corrupt

Granted there were lots of confusion!

        Miscommunication, Wishful thinking, Credulity, Idealism, ignorance, deception as well. But tons of GOOD WILL and Sacrifice as well.

       Well, we'll get it right sometime! But please don't insult millions of our people who risked their lives coming to streets demanding freedom and independence. Independence they got. Don't you think?!

       But anyhow, This is a blog devoted to people "Obsessed" with israel-Paletine issue and those who are obsessed with that calling them obsessed and so on and so forth!

Disenchanted..

Who is "denying"? Even more millions "from all walks of life" supported Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot, Hitler, Mussolini, Saddam , etc. (But, in fairness, only Emam's face appeared in the moon).

Now, will you admit that the revolution was built on a mountain of lies & a deliberate campaign of misinformation and propaganda and that it was led by the one of the biggest killers of Iranian men, women, and children in thousands of years of Iranian history, i.e. Emam-e Aziz? Or are you going to deny that?

Most in 1979

had no idea what they wanted. A benefit of being older is I remember it all. People are like cattle. They follow a leader without thinking. That is why they are so easy to manipulate. They thought Shah had torched Cinema Rex.

Sure if I thought that I would want him gone too! But he didn't. I remember this kid running to my mom telling her "You know Shah gave away all the oil". My mom told the 16 year old "Who told you". Kid said cassette tapes by Khomeini said so.

We had a bunch of ignorant people listening to lies. Repeated by groups with their agenda. Note: {Sarcasm} Right Shah "burned Cinema Rex; gave away the oil; killed 15000 people in the square! By the time all of the mud got slung Shah looked real bad. The problem was Shah was not able to counter the propaganda. His own propaganda was so badly done it just got people more angry. 

Come on Amir....

       Lets not deny that there were MILLIONS of Iranians from all walks of life in Tehran and other cities demanding Shah to get the hell out! That is a FACT! Denying that precludes any further discussion.

        So we got that much. Now as what exactly was motive of everyone, only almighty knows. But they shared one goal and that was end of Shah.

       As for Khomieni, he ultimately wanted Islam more than anything else. People wanted freedom but well, they are still trying!

        There is sensitivity with respect to Israel in a whole lot of places in the WORLD, Iran included. I am not going to deny there are some subtle form of anti semetism there but nothing evil. Just culture, ignorance, whatever you may wanna call it!

Were Khomeini and his followers "seeking freedom"?

The bottom line is that there were brave, freedom seeking  people on 17th of Shahrivar who were gunned down by the Shah regime.

Are we now calling the followers of Khomeini (along with the USSR-backed Hezb-e Tudeh, Fadaiyan-e Khalq, etc) "freedom seekers"? If they are, then we might as well call the followers of Kim Jong Il and the Assads of Syria "freedom seekers" too. Khomeini's "freedom seekers" killed many, many, many more people than the Shah's regime. In terms of spilling blood, they are not even remotely comparable by a long shot,

As far as the "allergy" you talk about on the part of some (not all) Iranians towards Israel, Jews, Zionists or whatever you want to call it, this is a particular obsession of Islamists and some (not all) leftists and has to do more with their own particular worldview than the facts, considering that Iran does not share a border with Israel and has never been invaded by Israel, but Israel's Arab enemies have indeed invaded Iran.

Amir1976, That is exactly why I used the word "untold" number!

             Or was it 1973?! :-) I have problem with numbers I guess!

             I agree that there were lots of numbers flying around mostly unconfirmed. The bottom line is that there were brave, freedom seeking  people on 17th of Shahrivar who were gunned down by the Shah regime.

               The fact that even at that time, 1357, folks were attributing these atrocities to Israeli commandos should be noted by those who think Iranian people allergy to Israel is something new and a result of the IRI propaganda!

Welcome back Bavafa :-)

          We could have used your voice of reason moderating this debate!

           As for Tony! Oh Tony, Tony! It brings out in me the sense of disgust and revulsion! :-) The guy lies everytime his lips moves!

What kind of idiot calls him a "peace envoy"?! I guess that makes Saddam "compationate envoy" and Hitler "Caring idol"!

...

duplicate!

I resisted staying away...

But you guys just had to bring up Tony

And I am not referring to the Tony, the hit man of Mafia

This is Tony THE Mafia

//www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/tony-blair/8799327/Tony-Blair-a-liability-in-Britain-and-the-Middle-East.html

//english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2011/09/2011929183947664140.html

'Hambastegi' is the main key to victory 

Mehrdad

The number killed on 17 Shahrivar is not "untold"

when Shahanshah killed untold number of our compatriots

The Islamist and Communist revolutionaries lied and claimed "thousands" killed in Jaleh Square on that day (the IRI claims that 15,000 were killed and injured!!!). The true number killed in all of Tehran on that day is in the neighborhood of 80 people. Now, that is a tragedy without a doubt, but it pales in comparison with the crimes of the IRI (more people were executed by the revolutioanry government in 1979 alone than in the 38-year reign of Moh'd Reza Pahlavi, and that was before the Reign of Terror of 1981-83 or the mass executions of priosners of 1988). In fact, even the bloodiest single incident of the revolution itself was the burning to death of 400 people in the Cinema Rex fire that was started by Islamist revolutionaries (and of course, falsely blamed on the Shah) along with false accusations of assassinations against Mostafa Khomeini, Ali Shariati, Takhti, Samad Behrangi, etc.

VPK, in Tehran on "17 of Shahrivar"...

         ...when Shahanshah killed untold number of our compatriots, there were rumors swirling around that the culprits were Israeli commandos! As much as nowadays folks attribute the atrocities to Lebanese, etc!

         In any case I'd describe Shah's relation with Israel somewhere between warm to cozy! :-)

Re: Tony

He is an ***hole. I am not a fan of Rushdie. But did he have to get him a knighthood? I mean does have deliberately want to fuel problesm.

His actions against Andrew Gilligan of BBC were those of a tin pot dictator.

Well Israel

did not side with Shah instead let Khomeini take over. Not sure how much they could have done. But they pretty much admitted they refused to help the Shah. Probably figured Iranian Jews will move to Israel: wrong.

They moved to USA instead and Israel lost its one potential friend. One more bad move on thier side. Shah was not their best buddy but he did not hate them the way IRI does  now.

Tony Blair is a disgrace!

         This is the kindest, most generous description I could come up with!

Thanks Iraj Khan for echoing the sentiment

       Indeed both Israel and Saudi Arabia in case of Egyptian revolution showed  that they are supporting the dictatorships and status Que in the region.

       These two countries both went a long way to stymied the democratic movement of Egyptian people and tried to keep the Mubarak corpse on the throne! Israel has always sided with racist, unsavory regimes in the world. South African apartheid regime was yet another example.

Lobe Kalaam,

in neveshteh: 

"That is why people who are longing for freedom and democracy in Iran have to add their voice to the international cry for justice in the Palestine issue. It is not only our obligation as a human being but in the long run it benefits the democracy movement in the whole region."

This is what Hannan Ashrawi said about the situation:

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xHU2xrnvZA

RE: Watching

I wanna be a ME peacemaker too! Where do I get some morons to pay me? My benefits:

• I am better looking. Just got a hair cut.
• I speak Farsi.
• I speak Middle Persian.
• I am learning Kurdish.
• I have a better reputation than TB {both the disease and the dude!}
• I like Jews and get along with Arabs plus make good tah dig.

Where do I sign up?

I promise I work for 2/3 of Tonys pay.

Mr. Bahmani...

       Thank you for your note. I am not sure I know what IRDC stands for. You sound jaded as many others with regard to this issue. But the world is clearly has a renewed and urgent concern regarding this issue.

      In a grand scheme of things time is not a friend of the Israel. Arab masses are finding a voice and identity in the Internet age. They cannot be ignored for two long. Also advent of technology makes defence of Israel more of a challenge. World is becoming smaller and billions of Muslims are going to make a difference in not too distant future. Israel is facing exceeding isolation. Their own media and politicians talk of a tsunami coming their way.

    If human history is of any value it tells us that oppression and tyranny won't last forever. Israel is buying love with its military might in the region. But as Bismark remarked: You can do everything with a javelin except sitting on it!

    OUCH!

LoveofLiberty .....

      For the love of God Just get the message! :-) I think the gist of my message is clear. Anyone who is looking for truth in the "punctuation" is not going to find it! You can not parse the words. To dissect is to murder!

Disenchanted...

Disenchanted: "But what I can not stand is the flagrant violation of human rights by Israel and hypocrisy of those who support it unconditionally."

Then, to be consistent, I suppose you might enlighten the audience here with reasons why you would NOT support the Palestinian side of the decades-old Israeli/Palestinian conflict?

Or, do you support the Palestinian side of that conflict...well...unconditionally?

Disenchanted...

Disenchanted: "But what I can not stand is the flagrant violation of human rights by Israel and hypocrisy of those who support it unconditionally."

Then, to be consistent, I suppose you might enlighten the audience here with reasons why you would NOT support the Palestinian side of the decades-old Israeli/Palestinian conflict?

Or, do you support the Palestinian side of that conflict...well...unconditionally?

Watching

 this:

Since resigning in June 2007, Tony Blair has financially enriched
himself more than any previous ex-prime minister. Reporter Peter Oborne
reveals some of the sources of his new-found wealth, much of which comes
from the Middle East.

On the day Tony Blair resigned as Prime
Minister, he was appointed the official representative Envoy of the
Quartet on the Middle East. By January 2009 he had set up Tony Blair
Associates - his international consultancy - which handles
multi-million-pound contracts in the Middle East. It is so secretive we
don't know all the locations in which they do business.

...

//www.channel4.com/programmes/dispatches/4od

//www.channel4.com/programmes/dispatches/4od#...

Disenchanted

Israel and its Arabia neighbours had fought threed major wars between 1948 and 1973. It wasn't a regional crisis that affected Iran in any way so why is it an issue now? Why is it a ticking time bomb now with a threat of war looming between Israel and Iranian? A crisis purely of the IRs making. The IR is the only world problem.

Sosan Khanum

Doesn't it amaze you that so many 'Humanitarian' Iranians seem to be just experts in one area and that is Palestine? I'm not sure why people like George Clooney are passionate about Darfur in Sudan, possibly because tbis region alons is literally twice ghe size of Israel and Palestine altogether and somen are taken into slavery! There are actually a few Palestinian sympathisers in Hollywood, take Daiel Day Lewis, Emma Thompson, Vanessa Redgrave and Tony Kushner for example.
If you were a genuine humanitarian you would take the effort to learn a about human rights which take place everywhere in the world and not just Palestine. What is the reason other than poisonous indoctrination from the IR. What is your view on Arab demands kn the UN that Iran relinquishes sovreignty of its Persian Gulf islands wbich has been shpported by Hamas and the government of Iraqi. Does this not you change your opinions on Palestine. If not why not?

Wow! Nice observation Soosan Khanom!

          Some subtle facts everyone tends to miss! Excellent. Loved it!

          MADE MY DAY! :-)

Simorgh, I guess I have tried to show to you the urgency that...

          the whole world sees in the Israel-Palestine conflict to no avail! Israel conflict is a ticking N. bomb waiting to blow up!

          Any other day Israel is in combat with any numbr of the countries in the region. Forget about humanatarian aspect of it if you wish. This is a major strategic fault line in the world. If you have to ask why, you'd never know I guess.

        Dear S.K. thanks for your kind words. 

        I'lll be off for a while! But the movement goes on! :-)

Simorge jan

Can each of us choose a just cause to write about on this Site?  Of course in addition to any support and feed back that we can provide each other with on achieving a democratic Iran. 

I personally would not mind to be involved with Darfur mostly because George Clooney is running it and I may then be running to him ..lol 

Can you please give me a name  of a famous hollywood star whose running any campaign on behalf the Palestinians and gets as much attention in the media?    I just want to exercise my options and see if he is handsome enough for me to join his cause as well? 

Disenchanted

You prove my point for me. By your own frank admission you know nothing about what haa taken place in Darfur despite the fact you boast about your humanitarian credentials. Neither are you aware , it seems of the buman rights violations in other corners of the world because your passion is Palestine. What is the reaaon for this?

Also Dear Disenchanted

I not only enjoyed your blog but I am also enjoying all the points that you are making and  discussing in your reply comments.... but some are not here to debate but to just repeat themselves over and over.  

There are a few on this site that make this place much more pleasent and one of those people are you....

I will write more later on this topic that you have brought up

Thanks again ...