Disenchanted

Re:: What happened to Iran Khan comment?

/dev/null aka "write only file". You write but you don't read :-) hee hee hee!

//en.wikipedia.org/wiki//dev/null

Dear Disenchanted

anytime 

: ) 

What happened to Iran Khan comment?

        Iraj pointed to the fact that Simorgh was deviating from the path of cordial exchange by telling me "Khejaalat Bekesh" equivalent of shame on you. I think that was a justified observation.

        SK: Thank for stopping by and supporting the just cause and the poor and forgotten "common sense"!

       Simorgh: I appreciate if you write a blog on Darfur and educate all of us. I am defending the rights of Palestinians and civilized world against Israel aggression not to the exclusion of other injustices in the world. That is perhaps our difference. If you write a blog highlighting suffering of chechen Muslims or Christians in Egypt I won't call you obsessed with it and call for the blessing of the aggressors.  

Rea,

I agree,

when you say perception is subjective

May I go even one step further and indicate: 'perception is deception' but facts are facts. This is what happened a few months ago in California it was reported by msnbc:

//www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41962756/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/t/mistaken-muslims-sikhs-hit-hate-crimes/

VPK: I believe we are in agreement regarding the Iranians and muslims living in the United States.

"In case you missed it,

"In case you missed it, Russia, China, India, Indonesia, Brazil and Pakistan all supported Palestinian bid for statehood last week in UN. These countries are among the top 10 most populated countries on earth! US is only country in that category who is still supporting Israel to the peril of its own national interests."

You speak as if China, Russia and Tureye are paragons of virtue. Does it not bother you as a humanitarian that each of the countries you have mentioned have a chequered record from record executions to invasion and ethnical cleansing.
You still duck the Darfur issue. As a humanitarian why have you not protested about Darfur? Why do you belittle the suffering of others at the expense of Palestinians?

Rea Thank you

Well said and same as my sentiments. Thank you!

iraj khan

That is your perception. Perceptions are always subjective, mine as well.

However. 

I know of nobody, neither in France nor in my home country, who was killed or burnt in the 21st century because they were muslims. Frankly, it's b/shit. There are problems, am not denying, but faaaar from what you're saying.

Yahoo, don't read. Don't read Fox either, not my cupatea.

As for the blogs, I'd already responded.

1. "Iranian art of lying", well, nothing special about it, everybody's lying. Iranian as much as the next door neighbour.

2. "Islam appeasers", an appalling blog, read it, but don't think I commented there.

3. "Iranians petty, vindictive", well, everybody is. Iranians are not different.

As you can see, nothing special about you, not in my book. Cheers.

Simorgh Pleaassase....!

         I appreciate if we keep this conversation civil.

         My main point of writing the blog was to indicate that Palestine-Israel issue is an urgent international issue not only limited to IC or Iranians. I think I presented enough evidence to support that claim. I don't think you addressed that issue.

        Most of the items you repeated from my blog applies to all the Islamic/Arab countries. majority of people in Pakistan, Jordan, Egypt, Moroco, Libya, Iraq, Iran, Lebanon, Saudi, Turkey, Indonesia, Malaysia, Afghanestan are fed up with Israel.

        Erdogan received a rock star reception in Egypt because he is standing up to Israel's bullying. He has ascended to the position of Arab leadership just because of that. Many European countries are also waking up to the atrocities of Israel. So much so that No Israeli politician can visit England for fear of being arrested for war crimes.

       In case you missed it, Russia, China, India, Indonesia, Brazil and Pakistan all supported Palestinian bid for statehood last week in UN. These countries are among the top 10 most populated countries on earth! US is only country in that category who is still supporting Israel to the peril of its own national interests. The reason for that is a powerful Jewish lobby and lots of Christian Zionist that based on a myth propagated 2000 years ago believe that God as a real estate broker has put the holy land(!) in the name of followers of Moses!

        As for Jerusalem perhaps it is news to you that it Muslims used to face Jerusalem during pray before Mecca was designated as such!

        Now as you may know I have no religious inclination. My opposition to Israeli belligerent policies is based on my human values and devotion to the truth and justice. I am advocating a rational and fair solution to this conflict free from religious overtones. But what I can not stand is the flagrant violation of human rights by Israel and hypocrisy of those who support it unconditionally.

      I agree however that Iran has many more urgent issues to attend. Achieving well being, progress, freedom and democracy for Iran has to be priority for all Iranians.

But that does not mean we can close our eyes and ask for God's blessing for Israeli oppression of Palestinians and aggression towards all its neighbors and even other countries in the region. Israel has to be held accountable for cold blooded murder of 9 Turkish citizens in international waters! It has to be held accountable for killing many Egyptian soldiers last month. They have to stand trial for terror of Iranian civilian scientists. They have to be held accountable for the murder in Dubai of a Palestinian. They forged passports of half a dozen European countries in order to gain access to Dubai. They have been betraying even their Western allays time and again. 

       It has been a modus operandi of Israel to kill first and ask questions later for 60 years. That has to stop. Erdogan said Israel acts like a spoiled child. It considers itself above the law. That has to stop. The world has become sick and tired of that. It will going to be stopped. The world is changing. Russia, China, India and Brazil are not going to put up with that crap!

          That nonsense of "strategic ambiguity" of threatening everyone with nuke attack meanwhile never admitting officially of having those weapons has to stop. The Insult to the world's intelligence and conscience has to stop. 

           before then not only on IC but in every corner of the world there will be brave men and women who will voice their frustration and anger at such Israeli policies. Change is coming. YES WE CAN!

Iraj Khan & Rea

You both got interesting points. On one side Rea makes sense about religion. I go by people not religion. I don't like organized religion which I shall go into in another post. We must judge people on who they are not their religion. 

Iraj Khan has good points also. The problem is that his statements apply mostly to IC posters. Who happen to be Iranian themselves! Who is kicking Iranians calling them liars and vindictive? It is other Iranians not Westerners. That is why I stand up to them. In fact I have found Americans to be so clueless most of them don't even know a Muslim or Iranian unless you wore a neon sign on your head saying "I am Iranian" or "I am Muslim". Most of them assume I am Italians or Jewish. My daughter tells me they just walk to her and start speaking Spanish. Brown skin = Hispanic!

Our problem is not the West. It is self hating Iranians. Who assume we are "Islamic terrorists" no matter who we are. Does not matter if we are even Muslims. They make "jokes" when an Iranian gets a presidential medal. Oh it is all in good fun. Right! It is self hate and no amount of sugar will cover it. When I call them they tell me I am constipated. Well better that than have a run of you know what of the mouth.

I don't think

Iranian religion has anything to do with disliking Israel. Specially the soccer game is not a good example at all. People get excited when they win a game. It happens all over Europe and USA as well. You should see what Americans do when their team wins. Do they hate the people of the other state or town?

No of course not they just get excited because of some incomprehensible thing. I never figured out why but they do. 

My grandfather was a Muslim Iranian. His name was Mohammad and he did not hate Israel. He was actually more pro Israel than half Americans now! So no I don't think most Iranians before revolution were anti Israel.

Disenchanted- Khejalat Bekesh

Do we agree that most of Iranians are religious? 

Possibly so long as they keep their religious beliefs to themselves and doesn't encroach into the realm of politics its none of my business 

  Do we agree most Iranians hate Israeli violence and disrespect for international laws and human rights? 

Prove it! Most Iranians I know, including ones who absolutely hated Israel, have become desensitized toward the issue and lets not forget the brave Iranian men and women who took to the streets of Tehran in 2009 and chanted, "Na ghaze, na lobnan junam fadaye Iran" (translates roughly as, "No to Gazza! No to Lebanon! I will die for Iran only"). Even reformist newspapers in Iran during Khatami's time were urging the government to support the Peace Process and two-stage solution long before any Muslim country in the region accepted the idea. 

 Do we agree that Iranians didn't like Israel even when Shah was on the throne and having fun? Hell yeah!

Speak for yourself. Ther is a loud vociferous minority that doesn't like Israel in Iran whilst most Iranians have other things to worry  domestic problems such as the inflation rate being 19%, rationing, mass unemployment, extra judicial killing, clubbing and beating of protesters, rape and imprisonment of bloggers and journalists. Why is a small strip of land in the Mediterranean more important than Iran unless 1) You are a Jew Hater 2) Islamic Fanatic 3) Both 

  Although the whole point of my blog was, that is true of all Muslims/Arabs and pretty much anyone who calls themselves human being.

The same compassionate Muslims who support the murder of Muslims in Sudan who are raped, murdered and taken into slavery by the most the most evil genocidal regime only beaten by the Islamic Republic.

The same compassionate Muslims of Iran who sit on the sidelines and cheer on Asad in his wholesale slaughter of his own Syrian countrymen.

Muslims kills Kurds and deny them a homeland. Its OK 'cause they are not Jews. Ottoman (Turk) Muslims kill Armenian commit genocide against Armerian Christiians (its ok 'Cause they are not Jews), Egyptian Muslims persecute Christian coptics (It's OK 'cause they are not Jews), Muslim Moghuls kill Budhists, Hindhus and wipe out thousands of years of pre-Islamic civilsation (It's OK 'cause they're not Jews). Muslims drive out Jews from Yemen, Egypt and Syria following the 1945 War of Israel Independence (It's OK 'cause they're Jews).

Just admit it: The only  reason this has ever been such a passionate issue for you Pro-Pals  at the expense of everything else including probelms of your own country is because of Jew Hate. 

If a Palestinian came to your door and asked for food and shelter would you a) welcome him in and embrace him as a brother 2) Lock him up in the garage and tell him to go back to his house? Because that number 2 is what is actually happening to the Palestinians at the moment in Lebanon where they are denied citizenship and the right to enter into 30 professions including doctors.  

 Lets not ignore that Jerusalem is a sacred place for Muslims now occupied by Israel

I challenge you to name me ONE  Sureh in the Koran which mentions the word Jerusalem. There is absolutely no evidence that the dome on the rock or Al-Khuds is actually Jerusalem and even if the reference was to Jersalem Mohammed's visit to this place was metaphysical he never travelled there.

The Al-Aqsa Mosque is built on the ruins of the Temple of Solomon which is just as if a mosque was built over the ruins of Persepolis. Imagine how we Iranians would feel? Too add insult to injury the Palestinian Authority even tried to deny the existance of the sacred Jewish temple in Jerusalem. 

Muslims are entitled to a Holy Site in Mecca and Medina. It basically occupies 95 percent of the Middle East and you are begrudging Jews of this tiny strip of land which it is sharing with Palestinians.  

... my point of view Israeli actions are a considered a grave problem if one is Human/Muslim/Arab/Palestinian.

Yes, if you were a Palestinian but you are not. You are an Iranian, a Muslim if you want, so whay don't you put Iranian Muslims who are 95% of the population of Iran first just like most Human/Muslim/Arab countries who put their own interests first. 

If you like to know most Mulsims/Arab/Palestinians have supported the UAE drive to rename the Persian Gulf and reclaim the three Persian Gulf Islands of Abu Mussa and Greater and Lesser Tunb. 

Read my lips. God Bless Iran and God Bless Israel. 

As an Iranian I salute our Israeli friends. I may disagree with your policies but I hope your country lives forever: 

 //www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IuHgBQcbKs&feature=related

Re: Rea

You stated:

"how would you feel if I were to write that in some European countries people are so religious, they abhorr so n so ?!"

Well, from what I hear and what I read WE, meaning muslims and Iranians are already hated because of our reilgion and it doesn't matter if we are secular muslims or not. As for those of us who live in the United States, the situation is not that much rosier.

They have shot and killed people who look like muslims or Middle Easterns, businesses were burned, kids bullied in schools, etc.

Read some of the comments on Yahoo when it comes to muslims and Iranians, it will help you understand.

Or, just read some of the comments here on IC and see what is being said about US, here is a few titles: 

1. The Iranian art of lying

2. Shame on you,.. Islam appeasers

3. Iraninan are petty, vindictive people,

I'm just saying.

Iraj

Let me put it this way

Because "most of the Iranian people are so religious", for that reason the IRI doesn' like Baha'is. X-ristians either. Because the IRI represents people ?!

Well, I don't believe in that b/shit. I believe in PEOPLE, not religions and regimes.

Btw, how would you feel if I were to write that in some European countries people are so religious, they abhorr so n so ?! 

Out of here.

Tiger Milli Vanilli

Please don't ruin my reputation by your unsubstantiated willy nilly comment. I am definitely single, but not generally available.

Marriage after a few years usually means a vow of celibacy as you might have heard!

I was just trying to be sensitive to the condition of those who are not getting it as the title suggests here, that's all!

Albaloo, no probs

at all! Perper mirizi is Faramarz's nickname.;)

You fixed it. Sorry then for

You fixed it. Sorry then for my comments Lily jan

hold on folks!

      Now, a couple of readers have plucked one sentence out of my blog and ignoring the rest and expressed dismay and start calling it "deeply hypocritical", etc. Here is the statement they didn't like:

"Most of the Iranian people are religious. Because of that they abhor Israel (That was the case even when Shah was in power)."

    I guess the good news is they had nothing to say about the rest of the blog! :-)  Now, lets analyze that one sentence:

     Do we agree that most of Iranians are religious? Answer is unfortunately yes! :-)

      Do we agree most Iranians hate Israeli violence and disrespect for international laws and human rights? The answer fortunately is yes.

      Do we agree that Iranians didn't like Israel even when Shah was on the throne and having fun? Hell yeah!

   Although the whole point of my blog was, that is true of all Muslims/Arabs and pretty much anyone who calls themselves human being.

      Now the only question is whether Iranians hate Israeli Gov. because they are Muslim or that specification is not necessary. I think if you are realistic you have to admit that being religious adds to your motivation. Lets not ignore that Jerusalem is a sacred place for Muslims now occupied by Israel.

      You may not find that reasonable but that does not diminishes the fact that it has a high degree of truth in it. I am disappointed for Vildemose's "strong" reaction to my blog as I found him reasonable on almost most of the other issues on this site!

       Well, if you read my long blog with patience you see that from my point of view Israeli actions are a considered a grave problem if one is Human/Muslim/Arab/Palestinian. So yes being religious has to have nothing with it. Looking for an example? Yours truly!

Perpermirizi

If I am lucky, I get it once in a while, but not regularly, for sure.

Ialwaysknewyouweremarried.

Albaloo,thanks,mykeyboardissick,haveorderedknewone.

Administranslatingmyposts.;)

Great point Lily jan

Although I should say that your writings are a challenge to read !! But, thanks, for bringing fun to this otherwise boring place.

Also I should thank the blogger for this interesting topic.

AndMuchMore

The fact is that a large part of Israeli Citizens and US citizens of Jewish descent, also want Peace. they Just Dont Get the Media coverage.

Re: Rea

My friend,

Iranians were very much anti Israel during the Shah's time too. For instance when Iranian soccer team beat Israel's team people just poured onto the streets celebrating, and giving out candies. It was a very spontaneous reaction.

Why did they reacted the way they did?

Because Iranians live in the Middle East and they follow the news of the Middle East. All they had to do was listen to their radios and read their newspapers or go to mosques and listen to preachers.

A whole nation had been occupied, terrorized and imprisoned by Jews, Euroupeans, Americans and that nation happened to be mostly muslim. Do I have to say anymore? 

The main questin here is:

Who is Occupying Whose Land?

Agree with Anahid

Thanks  dear Disenchanted  for creating this blog.

I also enjoyed reading some of the comments here . It has brought up some valuable discussions ...   

 Most of the Iranian

 Most of the Iranian people are religious. Because of that they abhor Israel (That was the case even when Shah was in power).

 So, if you are religous, you automatically hate Israel??? I don't remember that to be the case in my family and some of my relatives were pretty religious went to Alavi school...

Disenchanted, I think most of analysis is projective and deeply hypocritical. There are plenty of reasons to indict Israeli apartheid regime without resorting to religious racism against Iranians....

Reform requires the consent of the corrupt

I have a somehow related question to ask:

          I wonder, wonder that because of the "anti semitism" prevalence on IC, has it been under any kind of pressure from say, Anti defamation League, to allocate some space (more than 1) everyday specially for bloggers who clearly and unabashedly spread the daily memos of Israeli government?!

         I would be very surprised if IC has not come under such pressures. Of course when I say "anti semitism" is prevalent on IC I am being highly sarcastic. I hardly see anyone being demeaning towards Jews here. If anything "anti semitism" exists here because of lots of Arab bashing!

        Also as many people have pointed out equating criticism of Israel to hatred of Jews is a old fallacy no one is buying anymore.

   just a thought...

Wooow !

"Most of the Iranian people are religious. Because of that they abhor Israel (That was the case even when Shah was in power)."

Am speechless, sooo deep!

Faramarz, you got to get out more! :-)

       Buddy you mentioned that: "If I am lucky, I get it once in a while, but not regularly, for sure."

      Sorry to hear that. No wonder you don't get much! You got to get out more buddy! :-)

You spend too much time chatting on IC and talking about "getting", "scoring" and so on. That ain't gonna help you. You got to STOP commenting and get OUT!

Thanks god some folks on Iranian.com do get it!

          Anahid thank you for your note. 

 Simorgh, how can I take your argument seriously when your 2nd item is this:

" Your humanitarian concern for the Palestinians is not genuine because you would condemn Lebanon, Syria and Egypt for preventing many Palestinians from obtaining citizenship and discriminating against them practicing professions such as doctors"!

    you compare that to ethnic cleansing?!

    VPK jaan, it's good to be devil's advocate :-) I agree Israel is not the only problem in the world but may be one of the most urgent one. Again, it seems to be concern of many nations, Islamic, Arabs, independent countries. Pretty much US unfortunately is alone in unconditional support for Israel and that is becoming more and more obvious in the world and costly for US.

     My point was to make it clear for Roosbeh that "obsession" with Palestinian Issue by no means is limited to IC or Iranians. It is a world concern and rightly so.

Only thing you need to know about Israel/Palestine

As a long time writer (15 years+) for IRDC, I have long ago taken a vow of abstinence from the all too easy topic of Israel/Palestine.

The reason is that the people themselves don't want to change or make peace. Israelis admit openly that if they did not have the Palestinians to kick, they would eat each other alive. The Palestinians have more than shown their obvious division and lack of unity.

Israel could put an end to the "Ghettofication" tomorrow if they wanted, and the Palestinians can pack up and move what's left of their people back to their real historical/cultural Palestinian homeland which has been conveniently renamed Jordan, labeled as a Kingdom by the British, and assigned a fake short king.

In the end, all you need to know about the Israel/Palestine situation is the difference in birthweight between a baby born today in Israel and his brother, born in the occupied territories.

Certainly I will not listen to the President of Turkey, Iran, or anyone else on this pointless topic.

A regional war will only involve the two losers involved in it since 1967.

The assumption that anyone will come to the aid of Israel (even the US will not risk Arab oil for Israeli feigned loyalty, or worse, that the Arabs will rise up and help the relatives of their Palestinian taxi drivers, construction workers, IT technicians, and household help, is naive at best, deluded in the extreme.

Plus, wasting time on this website talking about the arrogance and selfishness of 2 countries that don't matter, hogs valuable jawtime on the real topic of interest, which is or ought to be "When will Iran be free?"

Let's get back to that discussion please.

To read more bahmani posts visit: //brucebahmani.blogspot.com/

Dear Disenchanted & Simorgh

You know I have been one who jumps on Palestinian centered discussions. I also don't like this business about Iranians being Muslim. But you are right majority are Muslims. How religious I don't know. I do know that IRI has really put a dent in Islamization of Iran.

As for Simorgh he has good points too. Why is the focus just on Israel. How about recovering our lost territories? Why don't we blame Kuwait for not giving citizenship to people including Arab Muslims living there for generations? Don't they matter. How about being fair and blaming Saudi for killing Bahrainis. 

As an Iranian I blame Kuwait more than Israel. Who bankrolled Iraq invasion? At least Israel sold Iran weapons {at rip off prices but it is supply and demand}. There is enough blame to go around 10 times. So let us be fair and blame them all!

Plenty of Folks Here Don't Get It Regularly!

If I am lucky, I get it once in a while, but not regularly, for sure.

But I do agree that there are people here on this site that don't get it at all. There is a guy here that hasn't got it in the 21st century!

Imagine that. 

Not getting it, especially for men, usually equates to grumpiness and sour mood!