دردسرهای برخورد با مرده


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divaneh
by divaneh
23-Mar-2010
 

همیشه فکر می کردم که آدمهای زمان قدیم بسیار خوشبخت تر از ما بودند. حسد می بردم به زندگی ساده در آن زمانها که مردم هوای پاک را استنشاق می نمودند و از طریق کشت زمین و چراندن بزوگوسفندان گذران می کردند. نه مثل ما گرفتار رژیمی خون آشام بودند و نه مجبور بودند به اراجیف آخوندها گوش کنند. چه زندگی خوبی که انسان با سرزدن خورشید و آواز خروس سرود خوانان به سر کشت برود و با غروب آن با بدنی خسته اما ورزیده به خانه باز گردد و با اشتهای تمام از غذاهای طبیعی و استراحت پس از آن لذت ببرد. این قبطه خوردن به مردم روزگار باستان ادامه یافت تا چند روز پیش که وندیداد اوستا را مطالعه می کردم و متوجه شدم که زندگی در دوران باستان هم خالی از دردسر نبوده و آن هم به مرحمت آخوندهای زرتشتی مشکلات خودش را داشته. قابل تذکر است که وندیداد هیچ ربطی با زرتشت بزرگ ، فلسفه خردمند و سروده های زیبای او ندارد و سالها پس از او به وسیله روحانیون زرتشتی نوشته شده و قسمتی از اوستا را تشکیل داده است.

آنچه در اینجا آمده بخش دهم از فرگرد هشتم وندیداد است که از کتاب اوستا به تصحیح جلیل دوستخواه نقل شده است و در مورد ناپاکی حاصل از برخورد با مردار در جایی دور ( جایی که آخوندی برای پاک نمودن شخص در دست نیست) و راه پاک نمودن شخص است. حال تصور کنید حال آدم بیچاره ای را که در بیابان پایش به لاشه ای برخورد کرده و ناپاک شده و در آن دستپاچگی و این طرف و آن طرف دویدن احتمالاَ هم پایش در جوی آب خواهد رفت و هم به شاخ و برگ درختان برخورد خواهد کرد.

------------------------------------------

ای دادار جهان استومند! ای اهوره مزدای اشون!

آیا کسی که در جایی دور، در بیابانی با مرداری برخورد یابد، می تواند پاک شود؟
* - * - * - *

اهوره مزدا پاسخ داد:

ای سپیتمان زرتشت!

آری او می تواند پاک شود.

چگونه چنین تواند شد؟

هر گاه سگان یا پرندگا ن مردار خوار "نسو" را پیش از آن زده باشند، او باید تن خویش را سی بار با گمیز بشوید و سی بار با دست خشک بمالد و هر بار از سر خویش آغاز کند.

... اما اگر سگان یا پرندگان مردار خوار هنوز "نسو" را نزده باشند، او باید تن خود را پانزده بار با گمیز بشوید و پانزده بار با دست خشک بمالد.

... آنگاه باید هزار گام بدود تا در راه خویش به کسی برخورد و به بانگ بلند بدو بگوید:

"این منم در اینجا؛ کسی که بی هیچ گونه آهنگ گناه در اندیشه و گفتار و کردار، به مردار برخورده است و می خواهد پاک شود."

اگر آن مرد به پاک کردن وی نکوشد، یک سوم از گناه وی بخشوده می شود.

... پس باید هزار گام دیگر بدود تا به مردی برخورد.

اگر آن مرد به پاک کردن وی نکوشد، نیمی از گناه وی بخشوده می شود.

... سپس باید هزار گام دیگر بدود تا به مردی برخورد.

اگر آن مرد به پاک کردن وی نکوشد، همۀ گناه وی بخشوده می شود.

پس آنگاه باید چنان بدود تا به جایی آباد – خانه ای یا روستایی یا شهری – برسد و به بانگ بلند بگوید:

"این منم در اینجا؛ کسی که بی هیچ گونه آهنگ گناه در اندیشه و گفتار و کردار، به مردار برخورده است و می خواهد پاک شود."

اگر مردمان آنجا به پاک کردن وی نکوشند، او باید تن خویش را با گمیز و آب پاک کند و از آن پس پاک می شود.

* - * - * - *

ای دادار جهان استومند! ای اشون!

اگر او بر سر راه خویش به آبی برخورد و تاوان گناه آلودن آب بر او روا گردد، پادافرۀ گناهش چیست؟

اهوره مزدا پاسخ داد:

چهار صد تازیانه با اسپهه-اشترا ، چهار صد تازیانه با سروشو-چرن.

* - * - * - *

ای دادار جهان استومند! ای اشون!

اگر او بر سر راه خویش به درختانی برخورد و تاوان گناه آلودن آتش بر او روا گردد، پادافرۀ گناهش چیست؟

اهوره مزدا پاسخ داد:

چهار صد تازیانه با اسپهه-اشترا ، چهار صد تازیانه با سروشو-چرن.

* - * - * - *

این است پادافره و تاوان گناه کسی که بدین فرمان تن در دهد؛ اما کسی که از آن سرباز زند، بی گمان جای او کنام دروج باشد.

---------------------------------------

اسپهه-اشترا: گونه ای تسمه یا تازیانه. احتمالاَ تازیانه ای که بدان اسب را به تند تاختن بر می انگیخته اند.

پادافره: پاداش / مجازات

سروشو-چرن: چوبدستی که پیشوایان دین برای تنبیه گناهکاران در دست می گرفته اند.

گمیز: شاش گاو. قابل توجه است که از ادرار در بسیاری نقاط دیگر نیز برای ضد عفونی کردن استفاده می شده است.

نسو: دیوی که بر پیکر مردگان فرمان می راند. در اینجا احتمالاَ مترادف با جسد است.

دروج: دوزخ


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more from divaneh
 
divaneh

Thanks Monda

by divaneh on

You are very kind. I am the one who is learning here.


Monda

divenah jan, I see your interest in history

by Monda on

Good thing I can learn those historical facts here from intelligently centered people like you, instead of reading those books on my own.  Love your blogs.


divaneh

Dear Shazde

by divaneh on

Nice to see you here. Thank you for the beautiful poem.


Shazde Asdola Mirza

خیام

Shazde Asdola Mirza


 

جمعی‌ متفکرند اندر ر‌ه دین

جمعی‌ به گمان فتاده در راه یقین

ترسم که ‌ز غیب بانگ آید روزی

کی‌ بیخبران، راه نه آنست و نه این!


divaneh

Dear Fatollah

by divaneh on

Thanks for reading. I heard similar tales about the ancient Armenia where Akhonds had thought people that it was wrong for girls to stay virgins too long (can't remember exactly why). And guess who was helping them to womanhood. I have no reference for this and am not sure that it is definitely true.


Fatollah

Dear D.

by Fatollah on

I read, learned and enjoyed it, thanks for the post and keep up the good work!

p/s I remember reading somewhere in old Mesopotamia young women would sell their bodies to total strangers outside temple(s) of some God and offer the hard earned metal to these God. Bastards, jenseshon az ghadim kharab bod, the akounds that is. :) -F


divaneh

Thanks for the information Atessa

by divaneh on

That's exactly what I thought Mogh was until I cameacross the Hedayat book. It's nothing more than a quick hint and he did not goin to the source of the Moghs. To be honest, I can't even remember it was Moghor Gabr that he referred to. I will be having a look at "Neyrangestan","Maziar", and "Zand va Hooman Yasn" to find out.


divaneh

Lets agree to disagree No Fear

by divaneh on

We are going round the circle now and I have answered all your points already. If you have any new argument please let me know, otherwise lets agree to disagree.


divaneh

Thanks for the insight Samsam

by divaneh on

Thanks for the facts. The experience in India just confirms that this is nolonger a feasible method for disposing of corpses due to the overcrowdedcities. 


divaneh

Dear Monda

by divaneh on

Holly books can be pretty boring and repetitive, but also provide a good source of historical facts. I enjoy reading them tolearn about the older days, though I have to admit that I have not read many.Also there is a mystic around each of these books, and millions of peopleassociate all sorts of power with these books and their writers without havingever read them. It's good to know what's all the hoo-hah about.


Atessa1

Majoos, Mogh or Mollah

by Atessa1 on

Divaneh Jan,

What I know about Moghs (which, by no means, is a reference) is that they were Zoroastrian clergy men. But, their origin goes far beyond Zoroastrianism! According to my researches, their origins go back to Mithraism.

Before Zoroastrianism in the region (according to some sources)we had a religious structure diverted from Mithraism. This religion had priests who were called Majoos(in Latin Magus & the words Mage & Magic are various pronunciation of Majoos). Still today some Arabs use the world Majoos to refer to Iranians (which is meant as an insult).

After the Zoroastrianism these Majoos transform to Moghs. Later, after Islam, they become Mollahs. Majoos, Mogh, Mollahs are the same species surviving for centuries by usurping people’s faith in Iran.

On Sadegh Hedayat, I never read anything he might have wrote about Moghs' origins. But, his book "Neyrangestan" as well as his script "Maziar" mention Zoroastrian Moghs. I do know that he also has some brilliant translations from Pahlavi to Farsi. But I was never able to get hold of any of them in Iran. It could be that he has sourced Moghs' origin in one of his translations.


No Fear

I am not buying it.

by No Fear on

You can mumbo jumbo as much as you want, but any spoiled or rotten flesh is better stayed under ground than above it.

The corpses were being fed to animals that are mostly disease carriers and this practice would definitly helped their population growths. A huge flesh eating rat colony right next to human habitat is alarming not only by any medical standard but even to someone with half a brain. Just the very reason which helps to increase these infestations and their population growth is enough to claim this practice is far from being hygienic. This is simple common sense.

 


SamSamIIII

& Yes, cyber f*rts

by SamSamIIII on

 

 

by tokhmeh ommah contain Methane (CH4) which is a greenhouse gas & an atmospheric pollutant. when they sit en mass in hussainieh listening to their imam jomeh & farting in unison it pollutes the air a thousand folds. but something tells me the ommaties issue is not to do with environemnt but tokhmeh Arab vengence against true Iran.:)

btw, Divaneh jaan, in Bombay around 18th century they stopped the practice when in very rare occasions small fragments carried by birds from unauthorized creamatories fell on urban areas.

& as for conversion, eventhough Zoroastrians unlike Semetic religions rarely propogated their religion thru forced conversions, the refusal to convert is partly a legacy of khallifate rule of post Arab conquest since during Sassanid It was possible to convert thru a grand maggie and very long elaborative rituals which was experienced by some Roman refugees as witnessed by Amonius.

 How ever post-Sassanid, the Arab khalliffate, frustrated by time & again mass conversions of new muslims back to their native religion of Zoroastra in first few decades of occupation, made it a law to behead any one who converts or assist in converting an Iranian newbie Muslim to religion of maggies. This policy was first initiated by son of Suheil ibn zunaim(if memory serves me right , arab commander of Sepahan) in Sepahan & later in all other rebelions & mass conversions in Azarbaijaan, Fars, Kerman, khozestan..etc. So hence I believe the refusal to convert partly due to age old reservations by Zoroastrian maggies to save their own skins.

Cheers & forgive me for veraajii!!!

Path of Kiaan Resurrection of True Iran Hoisting Drafshe Kaviaan //iranianidentity.blogspot.com //www.youtube.com/user/samsamsia


Monda

Dear divaneh

by Monda on

I appreciate your clarification of different versions of Avesta. I look forward to the years when I can just kick back and read holy books to clear my head.

Sorry I was joking. I have never read any of them page to page. Not for the lack of trying mind you but because I find them out of touch with humanity, dense and boring... plus I got the gist of their ultimate messages from my dad way before I made some attempt to check them out first hand.  Akhond is Akhond in any religion, was one of those messages.  I don't think I ever will read them either, except more on Buddhism (for its sensible utility in healing). Life is too short and there's so much I don't know and need to learn before I die.

I learn from you, thank you divaneh.


divaneh

Qualitative and Quantitative dont add up, No Fear

by divaneh on

You may find it horrible and disgusting, but none of these two words has anything to do with medicine and you can not combine emotion with science.

Rat colonies are only infestations in human habitat and not elsewhere in the wild. Vultures and other animals sharing the water sources happens nevertheless. Weather they consume dead human flesh or dead animal flesh. It is therefore irrelevant in this context.

It is the cleanest environmental practice for disposing dead bodies and as I already explained the most natural.


No Fear

No its not clean, Divaneh.

by No Fear on

Its disgusting and it was a horrible practice by any medical standard.

Since when helping rat infestation by feeding corpses to them is considered clean?  Many of these vultures and corps eating animals , also shared water sources with the human populations... duh?

Have you people gone mad? Just admit its was a vile and despicable practice. You can't suger coat such a horrendous and horrific custom.


divaneh

Yes it is clean, No Fear

by divaneh on

And as you have correctly pointed, the bodies are not just left outside. They are left in special places normally in holes (dakhmeh) in higher areas of mountains that humans do not habitat. In your example a flat area was used instead of the holes. This is the natural way that the mother earth disposes of dead bodies. They are simply consumed by animals and insects. However as I stated earlier, this may no longer be practical due to the huge population of human species.


divaneh

Thanks for sharing your experience Atessa

by divaneh on

Dear Atessa, thanks for sharing your experience. I didn't know that one could not convert to Zoroastrianism. You are so right; those who live through selling religion always change it to their own advantage and can be extremely cruel to anyone who endangers their interests, as clearly witnessed in Iran. Well, who gives a damn about the name? They can have the name and we can have the message.

As you have studied about Zoroastrianism, I wonder if you could help with this question. I always used the words "Mogh" and "Zartoshti" as synonyms. But Sadegh Hedayat in one of his books (can't remember which one) writes about Moghs as a tribe or a group who immigrated to Iran and taught Iranians to kill animals. He maintains that until their arrival, Iranians refrained from killing animals for religious proceedings or for their meat. Do you know much about this?


No Fear

Is letting your body to rot outside, considered clean now?

by No Fear on

Am i missing something here?

Up until 50 years ago, in Yazd , Iran, there were two Zorostranian hills which was used to dispose bodies in a particular order for them to rot or be eaten by vultures, rats, dogs and crows.

They used to place corpses in a special order. On top of these hills, the peak was enclosed in a wall which covered an area half the size of a football field. The mens body would be leaned against the wall followed by women and then childern.They would repeat this order until this area was completely full. Then they would move to the second hill.  It must have been a horrific scene to witness the death hills in Yazd. Thousand of crows and vultures circling the sky above this hill and thousands of rats living among these dead bodies along with the smell of rotten flesh indeed points to a very environmentally friendly solution to dispose your corpses !!

They would visit the hill after six months to collect all the bones in the middle of the hill and pour some sort of local acid to burn the bones down.

Zorostranians believed by doing this, they are not contaminating the earth and by not burning the corpses ,they are not contaminating the fire.

How about contaminating the air , for god sake??


divaneh

Dear Monda

by divaneh on

Thanks for your comment. The reason for posting this blog was two fold. First and the most important was the comedy of the whole affair. Putting myself into the shoes of the man who has touched a dead body and now running around frantically just cracks me up. I found the situation of the second man who meets a stranger who thinks that he must learn about his earlier misfortune, equally hilarious. Not to forget the cost of his bad luck which is most probably 800 lashes and 800 beating with sticks. This is a hell of a lot of beating.

The second reason is to repeat the same old message that Akhond is Akhond regardless of the religion. When one studies Avesta has no choice but to marvel at Zartosht's vision and wisdom that is reflected in Gaahan, Yashtha and Yasneha. There is a world of difference between these parts and the Vandidad that was written by Zaroastrians clergy many years after Zartosht, and at points is just silly, as shown above.

I have learnt through your comments that your dad was a very wise man, and that is another example of his wisdom. Leaving the dead bodies to vultures and hyenas is indeed the most environmentally clean way of disposing them. It is however not possible any longer in today's overcrowded societies. If it was, that would be my wish too. 


Atessa1

Sharing my experience,

by Atessa1 on

Divanneh Jan,

Once upon a time, I decided to switch from "Seyed Oladeh Peyghambar" to "Seyed Oladeh Zartosht"! I studied some books then packed my bags and gone to Yazd! I visited the centre of Zoroastrians and had a chat with one of the Moghs in charge of the place. To make a long story short…I learned to my dismay that the difference between Moghs & Mollahs was not as substantial as I have hoped for! Both have successfully complicated the faith to their own advantage! To top it up …I learned that one cannot convert to Zoroastrian religion …You have to be born one, or else, go and find another religion to convert to! So I came back home (Dast az pa deraztar)!

Thanks for posting this blog…enjoyed reading it!


Monda

divaneh, I'm having a hard time following

by Monda on

while I'm somehow poked in my mind with a good message that I fail to completely grasp... what made you write this blog i wonder?

My father always wanted his body disposed post-mortem the zoroastrian way, I wonder if he knew all the implications of that decision... his sins (to me he was the purest) being spread around by the eagles ... I don't know, I'm just confused.


divaneh

SamSam Jaan

by divaneh on

Thanks for your endorsement. The close connection between man and the nature in the old Iran certainly reflects in the scripts that are remained from that era. The care for the environment and cleanliness of all people were fundamental in protecting the population against the incurable disease, as well as laying the foundation for a rich and healthy society.


SamSamIIII

&

by SamSamIIII on

 

With respect to the environment, you are spot on and many of the rules are there to protect the environment and the community from the infections... 

Glad you see my point thru your impartial take on the subject. Also note that its only now that advanced societies are catching up with the urgency of the environmental priority. In US & Japan(to a lesser extent), major ,repeat environmental violators & polluters if convicted be it a CEO or average citizen can get up to 25 yrs in federal prison. Now compare to that i take 60 lashes any day ::)). But nevertheless , forgot to mention that your writing was pretty funny regardless .

Cheers & kind regards!!!

Path of Kiaan Resurrection of True Iran Hoisting Drafshe Kaviaan //iranianidentity.blogspot.com //www.youtube.com/user/samsamsia


divaneh

Dear SamSam

by divaneh on

I agree with you on the wisdom of the old Iranian belief system and its superiority to any Saami religion even today. I also agree with you and cannot see anyone but a nutcase following the recommendations here, more probably just wash and go. I however find it really funny and that is why it is posted here. Akhond in any religion is Akhond, and I think people possibly followed these Akhonds as much as most muslims follow the Akhonds today. 

With respect to the environment, you are spot on and many of the rules are there to protect the environment and the community from the infections. As an example infected dead body (possibly one of most dangerous sources of infections in old days) and its contact with water as sought here.


SamSamIIII

Divaneh jaan,

by SamSamIIII on

 

My friend , as you pointed out yourself Vandidad is but a later addition by Maggies dating practices that even predates prophet Zorostra but if you look carefully even this so called recent hype by hezbo crowd "sanad" of Zorostrian backwardness proves its readers otherwise in that it shows that even a 5000 yr old so called post-bronze age culture was more progressive than %80 of societies of today in which it held safe guarding "environmental & habitat elements" in such supreme regards that it forced high punishments for those polluting, corrupting those elements be it thru their own 5 milenium old justice system which by the way you cant prove was actuly carried out literaly & was not merely of symbolic values :). I agree that it has a lotta exagerated judgmental statements in it but compare to socio-religious documents of its time even this "shamefull legacy of maggi" is way progressive than the rest.

So what is wrong upholding tough laws on promoting clean water, clean air, clean habitat & cleansed body? . Dont you wish we had mullahs of ommah preach such values today!. Cheers pal!!!

btw* This vandidad issue has become a battle cry of many hezbollahi sites especialy in the last 2 yrs for obvious reasons if you know what i mean ;).

Path of Kiaan Resurrection of True Iran Hoisting Drafshe Kaviaan //iranianidentity.blogspot.com //www.youtube.com/user/samsamsia


Souri

Thank you

by Souri on

See? I thought that I knew who you are, now I know that I don't know :-)


divaneh

Curiosity killed the cat

by divaneh on

Dear Souri, it's been more than twenty years and I don't live in the US. I live in the UK.


Souri

May I ask you

by Souri on

Sorry I'm too curious :) but may I ask you how long you have been abroad?

I mean: When did you first left Iran, and did you always stay only  in US all this time?


divaneh

Is not the fonts Souri

by divaneh on

It's me. I've been out of that country too long and I've been reading too little. Thanks for your correction and for your kind comment.