divaneh

Dear Mash Ghasem

Tarikh Chiri Chiri is a perfect title. I very much enjoyed that story by Jish Daram. It is pity that we don't see more of him here. Good luck with the stories.

من هم میخواهم تاریخ بنویسم!

Dear Mash Ghasem

You are very right about the Shaikhieh preparing the ground for the Baabieh. In fact Shaikhi beliefs had more than a limited spread and when Shaikh Ahmad Ahasi, the  Bahraini founder of the Shaikhi doctrine visited Iran, he was greeted by no other than the king Mohammad Shah Ghajar himself. According to his doctrine the appearance of the Mahdi was imminent, and imminent it became. Many of the early Shaikhis who joined Baab were in fact convinced that Imam had appeared and they just needed to find him. 

I did a search for Vapasin Jonbesh Ghoron Vostaiey and got lucky. I’ve heard  a lot about this book and thanks to you can now read it. Here is the link.

//www.ketabfarsi.org/ketabkhaneh/ketabkhani/vav_1.html

Meanwhile look forward to your short stories.

Thank You, Majnon Aziz

Baab the Accidental Leader,

and his fans. I feel so comfortable with that description, I would love to write a novel on him from such an angel, and the kind of pull and attraction he had for people like Tahereh and his other followers. Though I'm still struggling with short story writing, a novel is years and years away.

Accident also played a part in how I found that site. I was just looking for the book by Mohamad Reza Fashahi, "Vapasin Jonbesh Ghoron Vostaiey," and came cross tis one. Tarikh Nabil khan, khaili damesh garmeh. Ya hack!

P.S. Babieh was able to play such a pivotal role because it came after Shaikhie and Horofieh. So in a sense Messiansim, as you call it, was not exactly unheard of and probably had some very limited audience yet remained marginal. The accidental appearance of Baab, at the right historical conjunction, gave rise to the movement.

Thanks Mash Ghasem

Thank you for the resourceful link that you have provided. That should educate me a bit more about Baab. Now I just need the time. Here is a link to Tarikh Nabil, the history of the Baabi movement. As it is written by a Baabi (and later Bahai), it may be a one sided view of the events and even contain exaggerations. Nonetheless it is a valuable resource for those researchers who may wish to research the subject.

//www.tarikhenabil.org/

مرکز اسناد جنبش بابیه

//www.babieh.com/

Dear Ahosseini

That epic is coming up very nicely but I had heard that it was the bearded woman who kills the Imam Zaman. Now either those hadith were wrong or Isfandiar has changed sex.

You however need to be careful as Ferdowsi also started like this and before he knew, he'd been at it for thirty years :)

Baab, the accidental hero

Dear Mash Ghasem

I fully agree with you that the Baabieh movement had more than one dimension, but it was a religious messianic movement in its core. It is more than likely that as it is the case in such rebellions, some dissatisfied people joined the movement for other reasons. Yet, those who fuelled it and caused the large mass upheaval of the Ghajar era were mainly hard core Shias (amongst which were many Akhonds) who believed that the wait for the return of the Mahdi was over. Baabieh movement was the largest mass movement against the government and its Mullahs prior to the constitution revolution. In three main flash points, Sheikh Tabarsi castle near Babol, Neiriz and Zanjan they fought the government army. Zanjan was the biggest of all where reportedly 3000 Baabis fought a government force of 10,000. Thousands of Iranians were killed on both sides in these events that hardly received their deserved attention from Iranians.

The movement however does not seem to have had defined objectives except that Imam Zaman had returned which on its positive side could spell the end of the Akhonds business and on the negative side could justify the violence that was inherent in the concept of the Imam Zaman. I think the movement was more than anything else the eruption of dissatisfaction and rage in the society. People were upset with the hardship and corruption of the Ghajar era, lost wars and territories to Russia and the Karbala massacre by Ottomans. At the same time, years of Safavid and Ghajar promotion of Shia ideas had made the society impatient for the return of its Imam. The same situation that we see in Iran today with some people.

It is in this highly charged environment that Baab makes his claim. It is even possible that he initially claimed to be a connection to the Imam Zaman, as the title Baab (door) suggests. We know this was the title that was used by people who claimed to be connected to the Imam zaman after the claimed initial disappearance and lasted for about 70 years until Mohammad ibn Ali Simeri announced that he was the last Baab and Imam had gone into hiding until the judgement day. I am not knowledgeable about Baab's teachings but there not seems to be defined objectives such as those that we see in the works of Mirza Hosseinali Bahaullah. Baab in my view was an imaginative person who became an accidental hero of the dissatisfied people. He paid for his claim with his own life but that movement laid the foundation for a much larger Bahai movement which had defined objectives and in contradiction to Baabieh rejected violence. The most significant feature of both movements was break with the past. A past that had repeatedly failed Iran.

دیوانه عزیز واقعا که دیوانه ای محمد علی باب چیه

دیوانه عزیز محمد علی باب چیه مثل اینکه شما داستان واقعی را دنبال نمیکنی.

در پرده سوم رهبر و پيروانش به ته جمكران سقوط كردند تا از اقا امام زمان بخواهند تا خود زمام امور را بدست بگيرد

بياييد اى رهروان، پيروان
زنيم شيرجه در عمق اين جمكران

بگيريم دستان اقاى خود
بگوييم از حال فرداى خود

بگوييم بر حال ما رحم كن
بيا و تو اوضاع ما فهم كن

فرستيم اقا به بالاى چاه
نشانيم ايشان روى تخت شاه

گزاريم او خود عدالت كند
كه ما را رها از خجالت كند

در پرده چهارم امام زمان رهبر و يارانش را در چاه جمكران زندانى كرد سپس به بالاى چاه صعود كرد و در مقابل زوار چاه يك خطابه اى اتشين ايراد كرد. در پايان سخنرانى و در هنگام وقت استراحت و ناهار، اسفنديار از راه رسيد و با زدن زهر مار به غذاى او اقا را مسموم كرد و كشت، نقاب او را به صورت خود  زد و جسد اورا به درون چاه انداخت و سپس خود را به جاى اقا جا زد 

 .بدينگونه اقا امام زمان - بر اورد سر از چه جمكران

 ...

بناگاه اسفنديار پليد

ز راه امد و خدمت او رسيد

بهنگام تفريح و وقت ناهار

بزد در غذايش كمى زهر مار

در پرده پنجم اسفندیار بسان پیامبر در غدیر خم در نقش امام زمان احمدی را بر سر دست بالا می برد و او را به عنوان نایب امام معرفی مکند

بزودى امامى كه بودست غيب - برد بر سرهر دو دستش شعيب

...

چنين گفت و بار دگر غيب شد
بدينگونه او عارى از عيب شد

كه تا اينكه معصوم ماند همى
نشايد كه او دم خورد با دمى

داستان ادامه دارد

تصویری نایاب از امام زمان

Reductivism?

Majnon jaan, isn't that old Iranian religion, itself a bit Hindy based?

I get a queasy feeling when a discussion of Babieh movement is reduced to describing it as messianic and such, and then leaving it at that. Basically reducing it to one dimension. Whereas tis movement, like any other one, was multi-dimentional.

As much as it had a religious root, at the same time in its height,  and apex it was a  movement that raised demands for social justice, unheard of untill then in the Iranian society of 160 years ago. Western scholars also often refer to movements  like Babieh as millenarian,  also a bit reductive.

On the not so positive side, with all the historical sympathy we might have for Babieh movement, the level and scope of violence in its daily life was incredibly high. Since violence was not only applied in self defenseand against Ghajar state and its mullahs, but also routinely utilized in  internal power struggles.

WhenTahereh would say, someone would get smacked in the mouth, that was no empty threat.  And as much as one could admire Tahreh's independence, genius, and courage, yet at the end of the day we're still dealing with a religiou's mind, highly rebellious, yet religious.

Tension between the positive and negative aspects of that movement?

Dear AO

Thanks for reading and your kind comment. I personally think that Satan is more powerful than God, but not enough powerful to finish him off. Just look at those who are holding power in Iran as a proof of what I said. In fact the old Iranian religion with its not so powerful god and the role of human in the galactic battle of good and evil seems to be more sensible than the all powerful yet confused Saami God.

MM Jaan

Thanks for the link. I don't know how I had missed that blog. It seems like I was not the only one who got lucky in Jamkaran.

Very well written Divaneh Jaan

Very gooid point about God and Satan.  Why couldn't God just kill him when he got out of line?  Never got an explanation for that.  Does anyone know why?  Was it because it had to be in the script to create "tension" for various scenes in the ongoing sagas of various religions?

On anothernote, the first thing that went through my mind a few years ago when I watched the movie "The Ring" was the Imam-e Zaman story. :-)  

sorry Divaneh - hole appears 2B blocked from 1st visit

//iranian.com/main/blog/kamran201-27

Dear MM

That cartoon is an ace. Perhaps if he is not coming out, we should throw AN in the well. I mean the hole. Thanks for reading and your compliment.

Dear Hamsadeh Ghadimi

I am glad you liked it. I have not seen the film but now will find and watch it. Regime is right to be scared as the concept of Imam Zaman is a very powerful concept and if some people really believe in the emergence of the Mahdi that could cause major upheaval in the society. In case of Baab, his followers fought the government in different locations. That is of course not the kind of end that we want for the IRI. Just imagine if it is replaced by a messianic government. Mind you with AN that is almost the case already.

یا ایٌهلمجنون

The quote by AN is probably why the well was dry & empty

حالا که همه چیزرو انداختین گردن من ! من با چه رویی ظهورکنم؟

//taliehphoto.blogspot.com/2008/06/blog-post_09.html

nice story, though

good blog divaneh.  i got

good blog divaneh.  i got quite a few chuckles from it.  there's also a movie made by rasoulof (with collaboration with panahi), white meadows (keshtzarhaye sepid), in which the concept of mahdi in the well was masterfully illustrated. i wrote a review of the movie and posted it as a blog in i.com.  it turns out that the regime is also scared shitless if mahdi actually appears from the jamkaran.  at any rate, both rasoulof and panahi were arrested following the relaese of the movie and banned from making more movies.  it's a very powerful movie and i recommend you (or any iranian) watch it.  good thing that you're writing under an alias. 

دوستان گرامی

همه ایرانیان عزیز

با تشکر از لطف شما، آن دور و بر هم خر زیاد دیدم و هم دجال و دجاله. اما خر دجالی که موهایش شیپور بزند و یک لنگ بردارد و از شرق به غرب برود ندیدم. شاید رفته بوده غرب و یا شاید هم اوضاع ایران را که دیده رفته بوده که خودش را کاندیدای ریاست جمهوری کند.

شیرین گرامی

ایشان هم آن مصاحبه یادشان بود و اتفاقاَ کمی هم گله کردند که شما جواب رد بهشان داده بودید. خدمتشان عرض کردم که مساله شخصی نبوده و فقط شیرین اهل زندگی کردن توی جزیره نیست. فرمایش شما و امام زمان کاملاَ درست است و تاریخ نشان داده که هر که به سرش بزند که امام زمان بشود جانش پای خودش است.

فرامرز جان

آن طور که من در این فیلم دیدم این چاه معجزه می کند، فقط باید لفتش ندهی و معجزه را برداری و بدوی و اگر نه ضد معجزه می زند. در مورد حضرت علی گویا به نظر می آید که ایشان خلبان بوده است و همۀ راههای هوایی را بلد بوده. آخر آن زمانها بعضی از خرها پرواز می کردند و حتماَ ایشان هم یکی از همانها داشته. در مورد امام زمان درست می فرمایید که از آن بالا حواسش به همۀ کارهای ما هست. خودش گفت از ساتلایت آمریکاییها استفاده می کند.

روزبه گرامی

چیزی به عنوان روشنفکر شیعه نداریم. روشنفکری که اسمش شیعه باشد زیاد است اما روشن فکری که عقاید شیعه را باور داشته باشد یک چیزی است مثل جن و پری، و این را هم من می دانم و هم شما. در واقع به نظر حقیر روشنفکر مذهبی بی معنی است. این بمبها هم بهتر است که هیچ جا نریزند. اما همانگونه که فرمودید زرنگهای شیعه توی لندن و تورنتو برای امام زمان حلوا پخش می کنند. 

امام زمان یک روشنفکر درجه یک شیعه هست.

در نتیجه، این حضرت سر از دیار روشنفکران شیعه، یعنی لندن مقدس در خواهند آورد. جریان "بنی‌ هیل" که آقای فرامرز اشاره نمودند نیز یکی‌ از علائم ظهور قریب الوقوع این حضرت هست.

این چاه جمکران فقط برای رد گم کردن هست که استکبار جهانی‌ جمکران رو بمب بزنه به جای محله آقا زاده نشین Mayfair   لندن با خانه‌های ۱۰ میلیون پوندی 

Jamkran Wishing Well

دیوانه جان، خیلی ممنون که وقت صرف کردی و این مساله مهم را برای ما کشف کردی.

چند سال پیش، مورخ عالی رتبه اینگلیسی بنی هیل (فرزند بنی هاشم) پس از پژوهش های فراوان یک فیلم کوتاه مستند در باره چاه جمکران درست کرد و نشون داد از این چاه معجزه ای حاصل نمیشه.

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sH5H2pwPhI

ولی من شخسا فکر میکنم که امام زمون در ماورای طبیعت زندگی میکنه و از اون بالا حواسش به همه کارهای ما هست.

حضرت علی علیه السلام رهبر شیعیان، مولای متقیان و ترتیب دهنده بیوه زنان و سینه زنان در اینباره چنین گفت "«ایها الناس سلونی قبل ان تفقدونی فلانا بطرق السماء اعلم منی بطرق الارض"

یعنی اینکه "قبل از این که مرا از دست بدهید، هر چه می خواهید از من بپرسید؛ زیرا من راههای آسمان را بهتر از راههای زمین می دانم."

امام زمون

امام زمون همیشه در معرض خطره...حق هم داره که ظهور نکنه

جون که بادمجون نیست...این ملت منتظر ظهور هم که مدام میگن ..مهدی ج.ن عجله کن..جون مادرت ظهور کن

میخوان خرش کنن...که ظهور کنه...و بکشنش

امام زمون هم به این سادگی خر نمیشه

اینها  رو از این جهت نوشتم...چون اگه یادتون باشه خودم باهاش مصاحبه کردم

برای اونهایی که ندیدند

//iranian.com/main/blog/ahang1001-5 

دیوانه جان

مثل همیشه بسیار جالب نوشته ای ، تشکر. راستی اطراف چاه ، یک یا چند تا "خر دجا ل" ندیدی ؟!  

It was not fiction MPD

I really met the guy. So, this people hang around there waiting for him to come out? Why am I not surprised. When I was a kid in Abadan there was a doctor called Dr Javadi who was famous for being materialistic and not treating patients before receiving the full payment. After he passed away there was a rumour that every Thursday night he comes out of his grave in the form of a dog. Some people used to go and sit in the graveyard with Samavar and Ajil and wait all night for him to come out. That's Iran.

مش قاسم جان

من آنجا بودم یا تو؟ آن که بالا آمد باب بود. این حضرتی که من دیدم نه توی فکر اشغال بود و نه اعتصاب. فکر می کرد اینها همه یک بازی است و کمی دیر یه این نتیجه رسید که توی جامعه ای که تشنۀ امام زمان است چنین بازی هایی ممکن است بسیار خطرناک باشد.

امیدوارم که مردم بتوانند بدون کمک امام زمان این اعتصابها را سامان بدهند و آن چه متعلق به خودشان است اشغال کنند.

What an appropriate poem Shazde

That verse shows that you have a very good knowledge about the mindset of the Baabis and Bahais who think Hafez wrote this and another poem for the Baab. I think if he could hid he would, and being Iran it wouldn't be surprising if half the country were Baabis. I think Baab was an accidental hero who was dragged into a game that he started without thinking much about its consequences. In my life I have met a few people who have been very imaginative and talk about their imagination with such conviction that leave the listener with no option but to believe them. I think they really believe in what they say and the line between reality and imagination is blurred for them. I put Baab in that category.

استاد گرامی

باز هم از شما آموختیم استاد جان. بنده از وجود چنین روایتی بی خبر بودم. معلوم شد که این باب بیچاره واقعاَ امام زمان تقلبی بوده و بی خودی تیر باران شده. انشاالله باب بعدی قبل از اظهار مهدویت تحقیقات بیشتری خواهد نمود.

As soon as you said "nobody was there" I knew this was a fiction

Jamkaran is a major tourist attraction in Iran now.  There are people there day and night.  Staying around the shrine overnight any way they could is a normal thing.

Good blog and imagination.

مجنون کبیر

//www.farakhan-iran.com/html/payam_16.html