Jahanshah Javid

forgot to reply @LovelyMighty

yes she is the same dancer in Namjoo's clip.  You're observant!

@@@Lovely Monda@@@@

I had set a trap with that one. (Since there is no mind/body dichotomy...Thereis only body with an organ within the  human organism called a brain. "some more than others"....)

Thank you for the delicious array of people I wasn't familiar with.

The good and great aren't ahead of their time but that of others' .

Truth and beauty. A bit of an old chestnut, which totally depends if the seeker is seeking objective truths (science) or subjective truths ....Loads and loads of literature on that....But what is quite exciting at present is that scientist are confirming loads of things that artists had played with over the centuries in neuro-esthetics.

Thank you Monda for the smiles and consequent wrinkles on my face.MondaJan.

Wabi Sabi. Those pots! You'll see!

I just rememered something. You know that clip that JJ has posted in this blog? Isn't that one of those that some singer nicked for his video?

If I had a mind; I'd change it.   - Marjaneh

JJJ like u said, I have no idea wat you're talking about either!

Everything is sacred

Amadeus hears you JJ

Nothing is perfect

Dear JJ:

It has been a while, good to see your picture and your comment on artists and art.  Perhaps your perception of art and artists was a bit distorted, I am glad you have come to a different understanding.  I do think not everyone who paints or draws or sculpt, dances or sing or writes is an artist.  I am convinced that there are very few of them in every century and when one comes alone he/she is a special person, a person who's work will transcend time and style, I dare to say maybe only a few more than a dozen every century transcend time.  Artists are human and many times full of shortcomings but full of a gift that few posses in this world. They are capable of developing a language that touches our heart and transcends our intellect. They are the ones who are Artists, the rest are crafts-people that would like to be Artists.  I think we can feel when someone is authentic and then we can be at owe with their gift, often in spite of the person.  Also my dear JJ life has taught me a lesson about people. Parting from the premise that we are unique than it follows that since there is no subject to compare with, we are perfect, every single one of us, worts and all.  Each carries the Divine and is a reflection of that to the rest of the world, or can be, I mean.  I experience the Divine in people more often than I am willing to admit, because if forces me to be aware of my own responsibility to be present as the Divine for others.

square, from Las Cruces, NM

@@@Beautiful Mind Entitled to be Changed

to name only a few symbols of perfection in their individual art forms: MJ - Michael Jackson (just saw "This is It") and Savion Glover (catch him Live if you like tap). I Loved Ingmar Bergman too and so many other people in different walks of life. Dan Siegel and Louann Brizendine are some of my current ones.

Obsession is a Must in creation - Right on again Mighty Marjaneh, even when aimed at representing human imperfection. One may expect creators would carry the same principals to their lives too, not always,  as JJ pointed to the disappointing truth. (Is our expectation about that old All Or Nothing? Good Or Bad? Which we First form about our parents? and extend it to the other creators? Wish Azadeh was here now.)

Beauty can not always be the whole truth. Truth about what? Then Whose Truth? Universal Truth? Which Universe one might wonder.... enough deep thoughts for one sunny but cool morning. JJ is not even here, ma ro be kaar mindaazeh o mireh soraaghe kaaresh :o)

I'll read on Wabi Sabi, sounds refreshing. Thanks Marjaneh jan!

Raoul-the-one-and-only-omniscient-god

you tell me!

Here are my mortal choices:

1. as you are god, you are seeing things! 

2. Through experience: i.e. falling over myself. A lot.

3. By typing so much, that because of the increase of probability, something profound eventually does appear. 

Oh, Almighty, unburden this mortal mind

If I had a mind; I'd change it.   - Marjaneh

To: Marjaneh

I just love the BTW section.  How do you come up with such profound metaphors?
The one and only Raoul on the planet.  :-)

love with a small "l"

Thank you for reading my non-sense! Thank you for your comments. I learned!

Artists will continue to be above-average folks in my eyes. Creative expression is the closest thing to Creation itself. But it's puzzling to me how creators of incredible beauty can be incredibly ugly. Too often I regret meeting artists. My expectations of them are just unrealistic. I don't know... I will always love them, with a small "l" :)

While you are at it... why don't you include Zinn's

protege Kaveh Afrasiabi to your list of the fabulous free thinkers!?

//mrzine.monthlyreview.org/2010/afrasiabi0302...

My dog hides my dentures all the time!

Bajenaghe naghi - ;)

Only thing is that I have a feeling that it's quite prevalent in most human beings, but expressed in "extremes" by "artists". Afterall, most human beings are "creative", but there are social conventions, genetic dispositions etc... 

Anyway

;)

If I had a mind; I'd change it.   - Marjaneh

@@@Meinstein Monda@@@@

I LOVE the fact that you included Einstein and Zinn in your list! The imagination and free questioning   thinking....

Who do you mean by MJ and Glover? I only know (of) Jonathan Glover.

You wrote:

"And I agree with our akhteest, about crashing from heights creating more impact. But feeling it and seeing  it Fall, contributes to our evolving as a human, no? "

Yeah!

"I enjoy obsessing with the highly-gifted, ..."

I'm sure that these people are highly "obsessed" by "normal" standards. Like scientists, philosophers and other seekers of truth (and beauty) and finding a "frame" to express it, it is a 24hrs job, that often seems excessive/obsessive to others. 

Oh, and as it's you Meinstein Monda, in Wabi Sabi it takes the strive to perfection to achieve imperfection.... Too beautiful....

If I had a mind; I'd change it. - Marjaneh

Are you sure, Jahanshah?

Do you mean that Orhan Pamuk is NOT perfect?

You should be kidding...right? Right?

Marjaneh Jan

Beautifully stated and very informative. Thank you. 

This phenomenal dancer is...

as are Khayaam, Astair, Rumi, Mattiss, Einstein, Powell, Jung, Zinn, MJ, Glover, etc. in their crafts.  I think what goes for us on a pedestal is a function of what we don't find "nurturing or exciting enough" at our levels of being - at a certain point in time.  And I agree with our akhteest, about crashing from heights creating more impact. But feeling it and seeing  it Fall, contributes to our evolving as a human, no?

Perfection is highly Subjective in most realms in life, I say.  Who needs it?  unless we feel it's truly needed at a given point. And that's Ok too.  I enjoy obsessing with the highly-gifted, I throw myself in their world as much as I can, just to see the humanity in their souls.  From then on, I only adore them, but obession would be lifted.  I like that.  It teaches me about my real values in life. 

.

.

art is a job

you have to work at it to make it look right.  no magic, you learn by experience and/or education.  artists are just people working.  :)

:=)

Marilyn was so perfect ... Ornellaia is so perfect ...

Perfect or not perfect, that is the question

humain being was always looking for perfection but what is perfection ?!

each one has his own idea about perfection. Even a meal could be perfect for one and not as good for another one. As every body think the world and nature is not perfect, they said the creator (the god) he has to be perfect and as we cannot see him and touch him, he will be remain perfect for always for everybody and then they created religion to tell how you should be perfect! Does Religion is perfect itself ?!

A homosexual artist could be hated by Iranians and be perfect for Europeans. What if God is homosexual ? he cannot he is alone and has no sex :-)

Perfection is like the God, every body think it exists but nobody met it.

JJ jan , you discover God doesn't exist !

Orang

......

I have read that some movie directors abuse their power and take advantage of actresses! Artists have talents, but they are no Gods! Sometimes artists (painters, writers, poets, musicians, directors...) have big ego, which is proportional to their accomplishments!

I agree with BN!

Bajenaghe naghi. This might, in part, explain your experiences

Pearl S. Buck:

"The truly creative mind in any field is no more than this: A human creature born abnormally, inhumanely sensitive. To them? a touch is a blow, a sound is a noise, a misfortune is a tragedy, a joy is an ecstasy, a friend is a lover, a lover is a god, and failure is death. Add to this cruelly delicate organism the overpowering necessity to create, create, create, so that without the creating of music or poetry or books or buildings or something of meaning, their very breath is cut off? They must create, must pour out creation. By some strange, unknown, inward urgency they are not really alive unless they are creating"

If I had a mind; I'd change it. - Marjaneh

Art Can Reflect either the Animal or the Spiritual Nature of Men

Art can reflect either the Dark, imperfect animal nature of man as well as his more noble spiritual nature, the often disregarded hidden "gem"; sometime for a lifetime..

I think Jahanshah's original assumption about artist and  "perfection" is not altogether wrong

I am a believer in the importance of early education in the arts..and believe that one's creativity is a Gift from God; that we all have hidden potentials ready to be exposed and nurtured that: 

"The purpose of the one true God, in revealing himself unto man, is to lay bare those gems that lie hidden within the mine of their true and inmost selves..."
That we  should regard each individual,

".. as a mine rich in gems of inestimable value. Education can, alone, cause it to reveal its treasures, and enable mankind to benefit there from."

I came across this wonderful site, in what seems to be a very unique model

in arts education promoting the very spiritual nature of art and its role in life and character building..

i hope to take my family and children.. 

//www.bahaiartsacademy.com/2010/info/index.ph...

JJ Jan

I respect artists and creators, and for me, the reason for this respect is clearly because what they produce make me feel good inside. Whether their creation is a poem, a painting, a statue, a great movie, or a tasty dish. 

I definitely do not consider them Gods.  Not only because I believe there is only one God, but also because during my life I have found that the most difficult, the most moody, and those with the most unusual temperaments to be artists. :-) 

Jahanshah! That's creepy!

All this time you were worshipping this wanna-be akhteest? Creep me over! 

(Just teasing you...hehe)

Btw, if you put something on a pedestal, the probability of it falling increases, as opposed to when the object is lying flat on the ground....

If I had a mind; I'd change it.   - Marjaneh

All The Gods ...

are within you, so are all the Demons

Again, Nothing Outside, But All Within

گویند که دوزخی بود عاشق و مست
قولی است خلاف دل در آن نتوان بست
گر عاشق و مست دوزخی خواهد بود
فردا باشد بهشـت همچون کف دست

  گردون نگری ز قد فرسوده ماست
جیحون اثری ز اشک آلوده ماست
دوزخ شرری ز رنج بیهوده ماست
فردوس دمی ز وقت آسوده ماست

حکیم عمر خیام نیشابوری

Well, you have a bigger problem at hand.

If Art was meant to display human's nature ( or how we perceive nature ), then evil exists in nature, therefore it must be reflected in art.

But this art was created by an "artist". therefore it must have come from an evil thought of an artist. Things don't just appear, they are created. Therefore the result reflects the creation of the creator.

Now we can conclusively claim that Art = evil  & Artists ( *creates* ) Art ===>  Artist (*creates ) evil.

But there are implications with this analogy which you have rightly pointed out in your blog (about worshiping a God ).

Because now the same arguement can made to justify God is evil. Since:

Artist = Evil  &   God ( *creates* ) Artists  ===> God (*creates ) Evil.

Hmmm...I have no idea what i am talking about.

Jahanshah

In Arts, whether that's music, painting, literature, etc., there are moments when everything comes together- By that I mean, it's very much like All The Gods Line-Up For You, To Bring About That Moment Of Magic ... That Moment Of Perfection ...!

Usually, this is not a very long time - Neither, a very sustained period .. Like I Said, A Momentary Thing!

Call It An Epiphany .. Or Experiencing Eternity In This Domain Of Time And Space .. But Essentially, It Is As Close As We Humans Can Get In Experiencing Perfection :) - !

R D

Dear JJ,You have arrived at an important discovery which I agree

Dear Jahanshah, I also arrived at this discovery a while ago. When you think about it, artists can be jerks since sometimes there are a lot of jealousy among them. Also people treat artists nicer than they would treat an average person. If this goes on for a while and the artist is not careful, they can become "az khod razee". Even at my lowly level, thanks to being featured on IC, I see that people sometimes treat me better. Hopefully, this will be a positive force. Dear JJ, couple days ago, you wrote about your friend ' s death and i thought about how you have so many contacts that you see more death. For same reason; number of people whom you know, you are bound to see fair number of jerks too. Hopefully, meanwhile you also get to see some good people and make lasting friendships which I know you have. Any way,  Just like you noted in your blog:" I have no idea what I'm talking about :))). "