Iranian Liberal Democrat

Hear, hear, Ayatoilet1!

'Been trying and trying with this sentence alone in my initial post:

Human rights includes a set of rules of accountability for human rights violations and courts too.  

Ewwwwwaaawwwuuuuuaaaaa! 

P.S. It's also illiterate political gibberish to yap about an unelected group within a non-existent pluralistic democracy. It's like basic durrhhh.

Ewwwwwwaaaa! 

MK - YOU NEED TO LEARN, NOT TEACH

MK, in a pluralistic democracy, where political participation is guaranteed for all, irregardless of their point of view - there is a clear red line that can not be crossed.

Freedom is NOT free. Your freedom STOPS where my freedom STARTS. Please get this concept. There is a big difference between freedom and democracy. Iranians want BOTH freedom AND democracy. It is possible to have freedom without democracy. There needs to be limits. For a democracy to properly function there have to be some 'protections" and some 'limitations'.

The MKO/PMOI/MEK membership have the right to pariticpate in a democracy, BUT THEY DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO MURDER. Even here in the U.S. where there are constitutionally guaranteed rights to free speech etc. when there have been groups like the Red Brigade, or Black Panthers etc. that advocated armed overthrow of the government etc. those group members were arrested and jailed. Do you remember Patty Hearst? THere needs to be real evidence that the MKO/PMOI/MEK has changed...

The MKO/PMOI/MKO has had the same leadership for the past 30+ years during which period they killed Americans, Iraqis and Iranians. Under the same leadership, and under the same 'political justifications' used to kill so many people they can not TODAY be considered as suitable partners with all other poltical groups with respect for democracy and democratic rights of others.

We, that is you and I, should be fighting for those whose opinions we might disagree with, but that have respect for democracy and the democratic process. I may disagree with someone, but I would die for their right to express their views and participate in the democratic process. By the way, in a FREE society this concept extends beyond political groups and parties participating in the democratic process but to religious groups ... Iranians want both FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY.

MKO/PMOI/MEK leadership have a lot of different blood on their hands. They are defacto criminals - not freedom fighters. Their leadership should be tried - not liberated.

Dear Ayatoilet

Ayatoilet jaan,

1. You did not show any evidence that the PMOI has ANY role in the chemical attacks on the Kurds.

2. What is alleged is attacks on the Kurds in 1991. Reportedly the CURRENT Foreign Minister of Iraq, Hoshyar Zibari, who is a Kurd, has refuted the allegation. See the following letter published in the New York Times:

//www.nytimes.com/2011/08/19/opinion/removing-an-iranian-opposition-group-from-the-us-terror-list.html

The dude could NOT be lying for the simple reason that it would be very very simple to prove that he was lying by a statement from the Iraqi Foreign Minister.

"The People’s Mujahedeen, also known as MEK, never cooperated with Saddam Hussein in his crackdowns against Kurds and others, and the current Iraqi foreign minister has confirmed this. Such allegations are spread by Iran’s Ministry of Intelligence and Security to demonize the resistance."

3. The FTO has to pose a threat to the national security of the U.S. In actual fact, the PMOI has served and could serve the national security of the U.S. The PMOI could help the U.S. against the terrorist regime in terms of intelligence and the like. That is why many top American former officials want the PMOI be de-listed. The question for the Obama administration is whether they want to reward the vf regime and Khamenei or do they want to weaken the vf regime. If the Obama administration kept the PMOI on the list, the biggest winner will be Khamenei, IRGC, and Ministry of Intelligence. If the Obama administration wants to weaken the vf regime, then they will de-list the PMOI.

The "stories" about the PMOI killings Kurds is not reliable. They are probably made up by the VF Regime’s Ministry of Intelligence. The Iraqi government of Nouri al-Maliki hates the PMOI because the Maliki is from al Dawah party which is close to the vf regime. In their last elections, Alawi’s party got the highest votes, but due to the interference of the VF regime, he was not able to form a coalition. If Alawi had become prime minister, then the Iraqi govt would not have been attacking the PMOI.

In conclusion, we have to think about the LONG-TERM interests of the Iranian people, and not our own narrow minor issues. It is in our interest to weaken the IRI. The questions is what policies help the vf regime and what policies hurt the vf regime. There is no doubt that the de-listing of the PMOI will hurt the vf regime. Just look at this site. People like Iran Military Forum are posting in support of or opposed to de-listing? Look at what NIAC and CASMII are doing. Do YOU think that NIAC and CASMII want the vf regime overthrown????? Have YOU seen NIAC or CASMII promote policies which help the vf regime (e.g., on sanctions)? Have YOU seen friendly contacts between NIAC and CASMII leaders with the officials of the VF regime????????

Now look at who are supporting de-listing? Do you see those who are democrats (JM, NAMIR), socialists (e.g., Roozbeh), monarchists (many many of them here), independents (many many of them)?

The way I see it, there is a divide.

1. On the side of keeping the PMOI on the list are: VF regime (hard-liners like Iran Military Forum, and as well as reformists), NIAC, CASMII, and Anong8 (I think he is actually an agent of Ministry of Intelligence).

2. On the side of de-listing we have: democrats, socialists, monarchists, and independents.

Moreover, we have to think about the post-fundamentalist Iran. Do we want a democratic pluralistic Iran or not? If we want a pluralistic Iran, this means that we have to begin now.

Finally, we have to have clear political principles. Are civil liberties and pluralism are principles? If they are, then we HAVE to defend the civil liberties and political RIGHTS of those with whom we disagree. If we only defend those that we agree with, this does NOT make us democrat. A democrat is one who defends the RIGHTS of those with whom he/she disagrees with.

Best,

Masoud

Disenchanted, on why I despise NIAC and VF Regime

Disenchated,

Obviously you and I disagree. You have your opinions and feelings, and I have my opinions and feelings. I despise the vf regime a zillion times more than the PMOI. I despise NIAC a zillion times more than I despise the PMOI. On your analogy of apples and crap. You regard the PMOI as crap, and I regard NIAC as the crap.

Unfortunately, I do not have any connections to the beyond to talks with Dr. Mossadegh. Based on my familiarity of his thinking, my opinion is that Dr. Mossadegh would spit on Trita Parsi and NIAC. Why? Because Dr. Trita Parsi has had friendly contacts and meetings with very high officials of the terrorist regime. In addition Parsi has worked with the CIA (e.g., provided lectures and the likes which despite my repeated questions NIAC has not released the specifics). I would like to know whether or not TP received money from the CIA. And how much money he got from the CIA.

As you may know Dr. Mossadegh LOVED Iran and the Iranian people, and hated those who have harmed them. I think that Dr. Mossadegh would have absolutely HATED and DESPISED Khomeini and all those who collaborated with him. Khomeini probably harmed the Iranian people more than anyone since the Mongols. The sheer numbers of the people Khomeini mass murdered, mass tortured, mass raped is very rare in our tortured history. Any decent human being should hate and despise Khomeini and his supporters, collaborators, friends, and helpers. This means Khamenei, Rafsanjani, Ahmadinejad, Zarif, Soltanieh and all other officials of the terrorist regime.

Trita Parsi has had many friendly contacts with Javad Zarif who was the HIGHEST official of this nasty genocidal regime outside Iran as well as with Amb. Soltanieyh. Therefore, in my opinion Dr. Mossadegh would have spit on both TP and Javad Zarif. Zarif is the HIGHEST official of the regime, which has murdered Mossadegh’s closest friends such as Dr. Bakhtiar, Parvaneh Eskandari-Forouhar and Dariush Forouhar and many like Dr. Sanjabi who had to leave Iran to save his life (after Khomeini declaring mortad our group). Javad Zarif serves this mafia gang that has MURDERED these close friends of Dr. Mossadegh. Khomeini called JM and Dr. Mossadegh mortad, thus encouraging the murder of our members. In my opinion, if Dr. Mossadegh was alive, he would spit on Khomeini, Zarif, and Trita Parsi.

The vf regime is a GENOCIDAL terrorist regime. In my opinion, any decent human being should condemn this regime and call for its abolishment.

YOU have the right to despise the PMOI more than NIAC. I and many many others despise NIAC a zillion times more than the PMOI. I and many others despise the vf regime a zillion times more than the PMOI.

You and I have DIFFERENT views. Other Iranians have other views. For example, many monarchists hate and despise Dr. Mossadegh and JM. They regard us to be traitors and they do not want us to be able to participate in politics. Some Iranians do not want the fundamentalists to be able to participate in politics. Some other Iranian do not want the communists to participate in politics. Some Iranians do not want the Democratic Party of Iranian Kurdistan to participate. And soooooooo on.

The point that you are not getting is this: in a pluralistic democracy, all groups can participate whether or not you, I, monarchists, or communists likes it or not.

If one accepts YOUR view that the PMOI should be banned, then we will end up in a totalitarian nightmare again. It is called the problems of slippery slope. If one accepts the principle of banning the PMOI, then based on that principle, one could also ban the monarchists. The monarchists collaborated with the CIA against Iran’s national interests. Based on the same principle many fundamentalist collaborated in the CIA coup and the post coup regime (e.g., Ayatollah Kashani, Ayatollah Behbahani, Hojatolislam Falsafi, Ayatollah Khomeini after the coup, Ayatollah Uzma Brujerdi, Fadaian Islam, etc). And ALL supporters of Khomeini also have to be banned which would include Mousavi, Karrubi, Rafsanjani, Khamenei, Khatami. Similarly, Fadaian (who have used violence) have to be banned.. The Democratic Party of Iranian Kurdistan has to be banned.

In conclusion, YOUR view is a typical and very dangerous dictatorial idea (typical of fundamentalists, monarchists, Stalinists). My view is what is necessary for a pluralistic democracy (JM). Dr. Mossadegh strongly opposed the Tudeh Party because the Tudeh Party was puppet of the Soviet Union as well as having a dictatorial ideology. But Dr. Mossadegh defended the civil liberties of the Tudeh Party. Dr. Mossadegh had chosen Gen. Zahedi as the Minister of Interior (actually he was Interior Minister right before Mossadegh formed his cabinet). Mossadegh kept Gen. Zahedi as Interior Minister in order to provide a sort of comfort to the Shah and the conservative forces that there will not be any cheating in the forthcoming Majles elections. The Tudeh Party held a mass rally against Dr. Mossadegh and used very harsh slogans against Mossadegh. Gen. Zahedi used violence and killed a few of the marchers. Dr. Mossadegh immediately dismissed Gen Zahedi because he was not supposed to kill members of the Tudeh Party. This is evidence of how democracy and civil liberties work. Mossadegh was against the Tudeh Party, but he defended their RIGHTS and their civil liberties. Another example is with Pishevari. Mossadegh was one of the very few who although strongly condemned Pishevari (he was a puppet of USSR and then served them in the Azerbaijan Republic while the Red Army was occupying our Azserbaijan), Mossadegh supported Pishevari assuming his seat in the Majles. This is because Mossadegh was a democrat and civil libertarian. Mossadegh opposed Pishevari, opposed the USSR, opposed the Red Army occupying our land, opposed Fergheh Democrat, but Mossadegh defended the civil liberty of Pishevari and his political rights.

One main point of this blog is to TEACH the readers the difference between democracy-freedom vs. dictatorship-repression.

One only has to look at the U.S. to learn how democracy has evolved here. Initially many many groups did not enjoy civil liberties, but gradually as America democratized, the civil liberties of all groups came to be respected. As late as 1950s, NAACP and the Communist Party were repressed in the U.S. Many southern states had laws punishing the NAACP as many federal laws punished members of the Communist Party. But today, all groups are allowed to express their views.

We in JM are democrats and civil libertarians. This means all groups are free to have their parties, their newspapers, and freely participate in all elections. In exchange they will not use violence and accept the winner of the election. The civil liberties of those who lose the election are respected and the majority forms the government.

Khomeini is a fascistic terrorist tyrant who from the get-go began establishing his reactionary brutal tyranny. Therefore, from the point of view of democrats and civil libertarians the vf regime totally lacks any legitimacy. Thus it had to go.

The difference between you and me is like the difference between Khomeini and Mossadegh. You and Khomeini want to ban this or ban than. Mossadegh and I want civil liberties and democracy.

If you and Khomeini’s supporters (Khamenei) win, then Iran will continue to be a terrible tyranny. If JM wins, then Iran will enjoy democracy, freedom, and human rights. This is why I spend my precious time opposing you and those like you. People like you have killed, tortured, and raped people like me. That is why we are enemies.

Masoud

MEK is like no other group!

       Masoud,

      I had to quit my job so I can keep up with IC blogs! :-) As for your questions:

       I maintain that any individual or group who deprives Iranian nation from their right of self determination, free election and fair representation has to be held accountable. I believe it is right of every Iranian citizen to participate in democratic election of their system of choice and representatives no matter who they are and what their political/ideological leaning is. That includes monarchists, leftists, nationalist, Sunnis, baha'is, feminists, shias, Jews, Christians and all other minorities. I have little in common and mostly opposoe many of these doctorines but I am an Iranian like them and we all have same right and one vote!    

      MEK followers certainly have such a right in my opinion but as individuals not as a party. MEK as a group and ideology should only exist in history books. Its leaders have to stand trial. The charge of treason leveled against  this group is not limited to their complicity with the criminal Saddam. They are betraying their homeland to this day by selling anything and everything they can find a buyer for. This group has become an ugly symbol of opportunism.

     To put NIAC next to MEK is so baseless and laughable that I don't think it deserves even to be argued against! It is not even comparing apples and oranges. It is comparing apples with CRAP :-)

      I disagree with you on the fact that MEK as a group still has a right to participate in a democratic process. However if you still insist to defend their civil liberty rights make sure in same breath you express your "strong opposition to their ideology and leadership" (your words) in case some uninitiated mind gets the wrong impression that you are defending that hellish cult!

Dear Tiger

I have another general question from whoever wants to reply:

• Why should MKO members who have committed crimes like killing Americans and Iraqi as well as Iranians get a free pass. Yes I agree to political freedom. But in all nations when someone commits a crime they get tried. Many times this also strips them from right to vote. Should MKO be an exception and if so why?  
• Do we have any way of telling which MKO members committed violent acts. Which were accessories; and which were not? Should there not at least be tribunals to determine these? Given the violations were against American; Iraqi and Iranians where should the tribunals be held. In one of the nations or all of them. Who should be the judges and which laws applied.
• Does anyone think that MKO has changed its ways. If they did gain power would they really form a democracy. Or would they create a one party system with themselves as rulers.'

In addition people who suffered losses and pain require compensation. Should they not be allowed to sue MKO for damages. Given the amount of cash MKO has I am sure they would be able to pay.

legal loopholes are far from kosher and

they constitute international fraud. 

Furthermore, ALL registered non-profit organizations have to make their accounts available to the public: where are the auditing documents?

The US taxpayer should be demanding full disclosure.... There are also rules and regulations pertaining to non-profit organizations' lobbying....

Thanks, MK for your response, but if all were so above board, they wouldn't need to lobby to de-list and their current status quo would benefit them by far more....

Back to my other questions in my initial posts, which I have now highlighted:

Human rights includes a set of rules of accountability for human rights violations and courts too. 

I ask again and for the upteenth time on this site, how does a terrorist group transfer funds to lobby politicians in the US legally and why should such a group be allowed to be above the law and request further "allowances" to be so through funding?

Delisting has consquences

Delisting MEK will have consequences: 

* possible Civil War (And you thought Tehran was fun before it turned into the type street gun battles we see in Iraq and Afghanistan!);

* The government in Iran will ratchet up executions of anyone even remotely deemed to be connected to the MEK (directly or indirectly) (Does anyone seriously doubt this?  Does anyone seriously doubt that there will be MORE executions?)

* A strong trend will emerge where many Iranians in Iran will distrust Iranians living outside of Iran (particularly in those countries where MEK is deslisted).  (Haven't you noticed that the U.S. is deeply suspicious of people that come from countries where Al Qaeda operates freely?  Don't you think the Iranian government will take a similar position regarding countries where MEK is allowed to operate freely?  What does this all mean?  It means that getting something as simple as a travel visa to Iran to see family members will be exponentially made more difficult - If Iran can't identify MEK; it will ban people living in MEK safe harbour countries or make it impossible or impractical for them to go to Iran even on a visit.)

Delisting has consequences that neither you nor I can control: Before the MEK and U.S. sell you a false bill of goods about why delisting is good, think through the natural & probable repercussions for yourself.  

Darius

I really hope Jebhe Melli does not ally itself with PMOI. They I mean JM are a relatively diminishing force. Barely relevant to current Iran. Most of them spend time talking about how great Dr. Mossadegh was.

But they do have one thing: a degree of honor and respect. If they join PMOI they will lose that which will be a disservice to Dr. Mossadegh. As they may ruin his good name. I just am not able to imagine Dr. Mossadegh joining forces with Saddam.

Maybe I am an idealist or don't know much. But I just don't see that he would have approved of PMOI. If some JM members want to join MEK that is their business. But let us not drag the good Dr into it! They should break off with JM; then join MEK. 

Beginning Of Another Evil Coalition!

Same Leadership.... No Substantive Change in MKO/MEK/PMOI

 MK, I looked up the state department link you put in your reply, and I do not see how MKO/PMOI/MKO do not qualify to STAY on the list.

There are 3 criteria for designation (1) they must be a "foreign organization" (do you argue that they are not??)

(2) They must "retain the capability and intent to engage in terrorist activity or terrorism" ...Well its still Maryam and Masoud Rajavi's gig! Right! They are still in charge, as they were 2 years ago when their designation was renewed as a terrorist organization; and by the way they have been in charge for the last what 30 years or so!! There has been no substantive change in their organization ...show me ONE thing that says they are recanting their ideology, or there is new leadership etc. etc. Oh, and by the way, they still wear military clothing, they still have no elections ...and its the same crowd inside the camp as the crowd that killed Kurds and Shiites INSIDE IRAQ ... Put aside any arguments involving Iran and the VF regime, just consider what they did for Chemical Ali, or Saddam Hussein ... its the same leadership, the same murderers.

(3) They must threaten US security (and political, economic, national interests etc.). This is where maybe the pro-MEK camp might have an argument ...does killing Kurds, or Shiites, or killing VF regime people (inside Iran and embassies etc), or even Americans inside Iran ....does that now constitute a current threat to the US? I think this is a complicated question to answer. It all depends what current US strategic thinking is. Do they want raprochment with VF regime? Do they want overt sanctions and confrontation? Are they playing a dual game with private amity and public enmity with the regime in Iran (i.e. do they have secret links with the regime in Iran...)? Only someone like Clinton would know. Certainly if they remove the MEK from the list, it will be interpreted as a signal to their "friends" inside the VF regime in Iran...about US strategic interests.

But as a matter of "facts" - it is clear that the MKO/PMOI/MEK killed Iraqis, and their leadership has NOT changed. On criterias #1 and #2 alone, they flunk the test. Are there strategic interest FOR the U.S. to remove them from the list? Maybe. If so, it basically means they have become a tool of U.S. foreign policy and as such reinforced the basic premise the the MKO/MEK/PMOI are a bunch of Iranian traitors - willing to be hired by who ever they think weilds power today ...once it was Saddam Hussein, now its the U.S. ... that makes them W*ores...not Iranians. It means we should not even care about their fate, for they do not serve Iranians...

The verdict, clearly, is to have their leadership arrested. Summarily tried in the Hague for crimes against Humanity. Then go through their "members" one by one and find out who participated in killings, and put them on trial too. The rest should be dispersed through out the world, and allowed to find other jobs...beyond the hell that camp ashraf has become. 

Dear Ayatoilet

You are right and all that is true but better be warned. On this blog being truthful is "Libel" :-) Specially if it goes against the MEK.

MEK/PMOI/MKO killed Iraqis - Absolutely A Fact

Read more: Mujahedin-e Khalq Organization (MEK or MKO) - Organization activities //www.faqs.org/espionage/Mo-Ne/Mujahedin-e-Khalq-Organization-MEK-or-MKO.html#ixzz1VZUXnO6M The Mujahedeen-e Khalq (MEK), a militant Iranian opposition group, helps Saddam Hussein suppress the Shia uprisings in southern Iraq and the Kurdish uprisings in the north. //www.historycommons.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=us_plans_to_use_military_force_against_iran&iran_specific_cases_and_issues=us_force_against_iran_USPolicyTowardsMEK served as his private army in repressing the Shia and Kurdish rebellions. ... MEK allied itself with the Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein and moved to Iraq ... //www.carlisle.army.mil/usawc/parameters/Articles/08winter/bahgat.pdf

Dear MK

Would you please tell me how I distorted your posts? In fact any posts. I would appreciate particular ones with an explanation. Give me an example of what was meant and what I said. 

There was a post by "Thruthseeker" that I misunderstood once. When he pointed it out I agreed and retracted my mistake. Other than that mistake I do not know of any proven distortion.

Please do not say they are "irrational". Just say what I distorted. Do not worry I won't accuse you of libel. I really want to know what you think was distorted and in which post.

PS

• I appreciate others who share your feelings to also pitch in.
• There may be a problem with the "o" on your keyboard. I suggest the IBM "clicky" type it is the best and available online for ~30 $ :-)

To whom it

may concern. If you don't like my posts; don't read them. I stay within the rules of IC. I do not make personal attack. Do not use foul language and do nt make threats. 

However recently I have been the target of intimidation by claims of "libel". Why: because some people don't like my posts. This although I have not used any particular names and left that for readers to decide on their own.

I just have one response: if you don't like them don't read them. I will not be intimidated into silence. Compared to some posts mine are quite mild. I do not call people spies; or agents or so on. This is a blog for discussions which at times get heated up. As they say: if you don't like the heat; get out of the kitchen.. I am often in opposition to SF but at least he takes it and does not try to silence others. Good for him! 

What bothers me is not what is said against me; I am protected by American law. Americans wisely know the chilling effect of "libel" on political speech. So make it practically impossible to use it to stop dissent. Instead they just try to discredit the other side. A perfectly legitimate approach.

However I worry about if the "don''t libel me" mentality prevails in post IRI  Iran. Right now there is no freedom of speech in Iran. If the IRI is replaced I hope we don't get libel laws that results in another IRI. I fear that some "pro democracy" groups have this in mind. Specially groups with a Marxist background. Maybe this is due to the historical lack of respect Marxism has shown for free speech. People should be free to say what they want. Let the readers be the judge.

JJ has set very liberal rules for IC. They allow arguments and discussions. Unlike Huffington Post you are not "screened" before you post. I like this approach and hope it stays the way it is.

Question on acts of terror

When  referring to acts of terror carried out by the MEK this needs to be considered objectively.

• Were the acts of violence perpetrated to destablise the Shah's regime sponsored by the Soviets acts of terror? Absolutely
• Was their suppoort for Ayhatollah Khomeini and supporting treacherous Marxists and Tudeh factions who destroyed the future of generations of Iranians with their so called revolution an act of terror? Absolutely
• Was their role as petty enforcers for Saddam Hussein terrorist ? Absolutely 
• Was their campaign of violence against the Mullah regime, the killing of Beheshti and attacks on IR consulates and embassies an act of terror? NO 
• Does any  act of violence against supporter of this regime, ministers, politicians, Basij, Sepah and Revolutonary Guards constitute an act of terror? NO and PLEASE CAN WE HAVE MORE OF THE SAME!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dear Mehrban and Roozbeh

Dear Mehrban,

You are right. I do not know of one single supporter of the PMOI who has written in this blog.  VPK has a loooooooong history of distorting the writings of others, including myself.

Best regards,

Masoud

=================================　

Roozbeh jaan,

I fully agree with you. Next BoosBoos will write that de-listing of the PMOI will cause earth quakes and tsunamis.

Best,

Masoud

responses

A:  Yes, the vf regime abandoned democracy, yes, the vf regime were brutal tyranies...but dont ever forget that the PMOI/MEK/MKO actually worked with Saddam Hussein in brutally suppressing opposition in Iraq - NOT Iran. Their cooperation with him in gassing (i.e. using chemical agents) and killing innocent kurdish villagers (I am talking kids, women, old people) is documented. This had nothing to do with the regime in Iran - Nothing.

MK: Ayatoilet jaan, You are confusing a whole bunch of stuff. This is the State Department’s criteria for the FTO list. Mehrban kindly posted the link earlier.

//www.state.gov/s/ct/rls/other/des/123085.htm

The PMOI did NOT help Saddam with gassing of the Kurds in Halancheh. The Iraqi air force dropped the chemical weapons on those poor souls. Your assertion is 100% false. No person of an authority has ever alleged what you asserted. What had been asserted was that in 1991, the PMOI killed Kurds and Shiites in the South after their rebellion. This allegation has been pretty much refuted.

A: For God's sake, recognize that the MEK/PMOI/MKO are the Nazi's. If they had not fallen out with Khomeini's gang they would be part of the regime today...killing Iranians...on all sides.

MK: You have not established that the PMOI systematically engaged in genocide. You have not established that they did any genocide. You are simply wrong on the PMOI. They WERE a left-wing guerrilla group. In 1983 or so, they abandoned their anti-imperialist ideology and became an ideology-free group with the sole purpose of overthrowing the terrorist regime. They have worked with Iraq as well as reportedly Israel and the U.S.

You could (and should) criticize the PMOI for what they have done. But you could not criticize the for what they have NOT done. They are not the Nazis. The equivalent of European fascism is Islamic fundamentalist groups such as supporters of Khomeini, al Qaeda, and Hezbollah.

A: Yes, rights and freedoms are worth defending for all - even you disagree with them. But remember the U.S. has close to 7 million people in Jail, Probation or Parole. Even here they take away people freedoms and deny them the right to vote etc. if they break the law. Laws have to stand for something and laws must be defended. While protecting free speech etc is legally protected, killing human beings is not ... The MEK/PMOI/MKO are killers. Pure and simple. Do you want to see pictures of the dead villagers in Iraq?

MK: Ayatoliet jaan, you are confusing several things. The U.S. Marines and the U.S. Force have killed many people in Iraq. The State Department does not put them in prison. Actually, they get rewarded including paid university tuition, medical care and the like. Those in prisons in the U.S are there because they have murdered, stole, raped, and the like.

The PMOI has killed officials of the terrorist regime. The PMOI has killed members of terrorist entities like the IRGC and Ministry of Intelligence. These are NOT murders. They are military operations by a guerrilla organization. George Washington killed the members of the British colonial rule here and he is on the one dollar bill. Same with the French resistance against Nazis.

You and I have the right to oppose armed struggle. But armed struggle is recognized under international law as well as in the U.S. Declaration of Independence.

I hope I answered your concerns.

Best regards,

Masoud

=======================================　

Bavafa/Mehrdad: Maoud: You say potato, I say potaato

You really think there is much difference between your claim and what I have Paraphrased?

MK: Supporting de-listing the PMOI and supporting the PMOI are totally different things. The ACLU defends the civil liberties of members of communist groups in the U.S. This does NOT make the ACLU supporters of communism. The ACLU supports civil liberties for the communists. Similarly, the ACLU defends the civil liberties of the KKK, this does NOT mean that the ACLU supports KKK. The ACLU is not a racist organization because it supports civil liberties for KKK.

Either you are utterly ignorant of this or you know but on purpose LIE. If you are IGNORANT of these basic stuff, then LEARN. And have the decency to thank me for having taught you something which necessary in politics, and for freedom and civil liberties. If you know the difference and on purpose LIED, then you are a liar and a charlatan.

Bavafa/Mehrdad: Fine... if you think the majority are in favor of de-listing, then what is all this non-stop effort here?

MK: I have been presenting my views opinions and analysis. I hoping to educate the readers. I am most pleased that the majority of the posters at Iranian.com share my position.

I am also hoping that folks in the U.S. government read this and so they would make the right decision. I wish to see the U.S. government make good decision that would be to the benefit of the U.S. national interests and the interests of the Iranian people.

There is a struggle between the Iranian people vs. the vf regime. I am hoping to see the vf regime sent to the garbage can of history where it belongs. This is part of my efforts to see democracy, freedom, and human rights established in Iran.

=========================== 

Dear Tiger Lily,

Faramarz provided a pretty good answer.

Best,

Masoud

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BoosBoos,

The no.1 terrorist entity in the world is the vf regime. The vf regime has had the HIGHEST per capita execution in the world, year after year after year. The terrorist regime has also caused the exile of several MILLION Iranians, including myself and many others on this site.

Once the terrorist regime has been replaced with democracy, then there will not be any (political) executions, no more exiles (well maybe for the fundamentalist terrorists who have been mass killing, mass torturing, mass raping the Iranian people).

The vf regime is the terrorist, the tyranny, the oppressor of us. It has to go. If you have a policy proposal which could cause the overthrow of collapse of the terrorist regime, en goyo en meidan. I am all ears.

If you support the terrorist regime. Well, then you are our enemy.

Masoud

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Disenchanted,

You FORGOT to answer my questions. Please provide your HONEST answers. Let me re-post my questions:

1. Would YOU also demand the same thing about IRGC? Would you demand the same about Basij? Would you also demand that Khamenei to be put on trial? Would you also demand Khatami to be put on trial? Would you also demand Mousavi and Karrubi to be put on trial? As you should know Khamenei, Mousavi, Rafsanjani, Khatami, Karrubi have held top positions in the vf regime which has blood on its hands. Many in the IRGC and Basij have blood on their hands. Why the double-standard?

2. Dr. Trita Parsi has had friendly contacts with officials of the VF regime.

//iranian.com/main/blog/masoud-kazemzadeh/documents-relationship-between-trita-parsi-and-vf-regime-official

And here is his view on IRGC being placed as terrorist group:

//niac.convio.net/site/News2pageNewsArticle&id=5710&security=1&news_iv_ctrl=-1

2.1. Do YOU demand that Dr. Parsi to be put on trial in Iran after the overthrow of the vf regime?

2.2. Do YOU support an in-depth investigation by the FBI to see whether or not anyone who has been a member of NIAC or has made financial contributions to NIAC has had any relationship with the vf regime?

3. Could you please provide a list of all the main groups that YOU want to be banned? Would YOUR list include the monarchists, IRGC, Mousavi, Rafsanjani, Basij, Khamenei, NIAC, Fadaian, Democratic Party of Iranian Kurdistan.

Dear Mehrdad

Yes it does go both ways.  You are all big boys and girls you should defend yourselves and your ideas as you see fit.  VPK's comment could involve me so I took a stand.  And this is not his first time that he distorts what I write.  

Regarding Libel

Defenses to libel that can result in dismissal before trial include the statement being one of opinion rather than fact or being "fair comment and criticism".

This is American law; I am stating an opinion and therefore am within American law. 

In America people have questioned the nationality of President Obama. They have made very serious accusations against Presidents Clinton and Bush. No one even got to trial much less conviction. 

We are free to voice our opinion. It is called "freedom of speech". A concept that is highly valued and in the First Amendmend in our bill of rights

Mehraban

Which blogger did I mention by name? People's reputation does not come from me. It comes from their own words. 

By the way I ask again which law are you using? In America many prominent politicians openly support MEK. Is this damaging their reputation? Why don't you ask them. I remind you I do not go by EU laws; I go by American laws.

VPK, you have called other bloggers supporters of MEK

You have published an untruth about bloggers here that could damage their reputation.  That is libel.

Mehraban

I have not yet seen a single supporter of MEK on this thread not one.

Well I guess you are not looking very hard.

Your statement is a defamation and a lible.

Are you an attorney? By which nation's law and what legal definition? Please provide citations. Now who is trying to "close" discussions? Who is making charges against whom? I live in the USA and libel is a very difficult charge. Thank God I do not live in Europe where freedom of speech is heavily restricted. In this country you can say pretty much anything you want without fear of being intimidated by so called "libel" charges.

VPK it is your words that are not to be trusted. 

Then don't trust them; fine! By the way personal attacks violate IC rules. Just a reminder.

VPK you consistently distort what other bloggers write

I have not yet seen a single supporter of MEK on this thread not one.  Your statement is a defamation and a lible.  You are twisting what your fellow bloggers have written here.  This is not the first time that you engage in such disengenious represetation of other bloggers statements.

VPK it is your words that are not to be trusted.  

Dear Mehrban: Does branding people go both ways?

Are we also as quick to bring shame to those who attack those of us who express our disappointment and disagreement with legitimiztion of MEK? You may just read a few post down to see examples of it.

Mind you vast majority of us if not all who condemn such legitimization are also condemning IRI on a daily bases here.

I do however wish supporters of MEK actually had the self respect to openly say so. I don't believe all advocate of de-listing are genuinely MEK supporters but I believe a few are only ashamed of expressing it openly.

'Hambastegi' is the main key to victory 

Mehrdad

Mehraban

I have nothing to be ashamed about. Shame belongs to those who support the traitor MEK not me. I stand by my words and if you don't like them then don't! No one is closing discussion on anything.

How did I "close" the discussion? I don't run IC and I don't ban people. However I have a right to my opinion. I do not support criminals and murderers. If that is your idea of shutting down discussion then so be it.

VPK shame on you!

For branding people for expressing their opinion.  It is likes of you who have closed the doors to open discussions in Iranian politics.  Shame on you!

dear Mehrdad

You are right this is a waste of time; but it had one major benefit. We now know exactly who MKO supporters on IC are. Who to trust and who not to. This was a very useful thing just for that one single reason: we know them.

The following sums it up the best for me

"Terror, Treason and tyranny are synonymous with MEK. US justice system may only consider them as terrorist by they are traitors for Iranians. "

enough waste of time here for me as well.

'Hambastegi' is the main key to victory 

Mehrdad

"By delisting MEK you'll also see executions in Iran skyrocket"

Really? shock, horror, now this is the reason I needed all this time to oppose MKO de-listing!!!.

Aghaye Mohtaram, I dont know where you have beem all this time, but the regime, this year alone,  has been executing Iranains at such a rate that reporting the executions has become a really hard work for human rights monitors. Do you really think these criminal islamist killers really need a excuse to murder ? 

"Personal business must yield to collective interest."