Iranian Liberal Democrat

MM

MM: Your beef is with the word "lecture". How do you know he "lectured" at CIA? Based on the ultimate AIPACer, Eli Lake?

MK: Either Eli lake’s assertion is true or it is false. Have YOU seen Trita Parsi condemn this assertion by Lake as an outrageous LIE??????? Has Parsi demanded Lake to retract the assertion that he lectured for the CIA????????? Could you please bring a quote from Dr. Parsi that Lake’s assertion on Parsi delivering lecture for the CIA is false? If you could produce it, I will accept it. Fair?

;-)

MM: If you solely rely on teaching and writing books as means of support, your situation and preferences are you own problems. Every other Iranian-American professor who does research in the USA or has a good idea to try out, gets grants from the US government to support his/her research and or students.

MK: Actually, the professor salaries are usually pretty good. I am extremely happy with mine.

:-)

Let me be clear. I have NO problem whatsoever with student loans (federally guaranteed loans or grants), or research funds by U.S. government for professors to do research and publish scholarly books and articles.

Although NED does provide some money for research (e.g., the funds for the publication of the excellent journal entitled Journal of Democracy), the funds in question that NIAC got had NOTHING to do with research and scholarship. The money NED gave NIAC was for training groups and individuals in Iran; in other words, the money was NOT for research, it was to promote a policy.

If you are comparing a policy-oriented or political organization getting funding from a government to engage in political or policy activities with a student getting loans or a scholar getting funds for scholarly research they you are making utterly absurd comparisons. Let me repeat, I support scholars to apply and get federal U.S. government funds for scholarly research and publication.

The POINT Fred and Mammad were discussing had to do with Fred alleging hypocrisy by NIAC and Mammad claiming that NIAC did NOT get any money from the U.S. government. I simply illustrated that Fred was right and Mammad was wrong.

So, it is not wrong at all for any scholar to get grants to conduct scholarly research. I might one day apply for such grants. And I would proudly say that in the acknowledgments. I hope I made this clear. You confuse two entirely different actions: money by individuals for research with money to political ORGANIZATIONS for policy promotion.

Individual scholar or group of scholars getting money from the U.S. government sources to conduct research and publications are good.

Political organizations getting money from a government to function and conduct policy stuff is the issue here.  This is what NIAC did.

Fred says that NIAC itself gets U.S. government money (via NED) but opposed other groups from getting them.

The other post was weird. Are both quotes from Trita Parsi? Could you post a link, so that I could see the context.

If Parsi or you are saying that if someone struggles against the fundamentalist terrorist regime, then he or she wishes to see Iran to be bombed, then it is utter nonsense. For example, JM struggles to get rid of the terrorist regime and establish a secular democratic republic in Iran. JM is against bombing Iran.

If Parsi or you are saying that if someone advocates sanctions against the terrorist regime, then he or she wishes to see Iran to be bombed, then it is utter nonsense. Did Nelson Mandela and the ANC that advocated sanctions against the racist apartheid regime advocated bombing of South Africa??????????? I support comprehensive sanctions against the fundamentalist terrorist regime (similar to those imposed on the racist apartheid regime by the UNSC), and I do not wish to see Iran bombed.

If Parsi or you are saying that those pro-democracy activists who condemn the fundamentalist terrorist regime, boycott their officials, condemn working with or helping IRI officials, then the democrats are advocating bombing Iran, then it is utter nonsense. For example, I oppose bombing, and I strongly support all sanctions against ALL fundamentalist terrorist officials of the IRI including the IRI ambassador to the UN.

Since when if someone opposed the terrorist regime or opposed NIAC then he or she wants to bomb Iran??????????? Your post was weird.

Best,

MK

Dr. Kazemzadeh - your salary is from US/Texas gov. grants

The university you teach at is part of the Texas STATE university.  So, the money you recieve for teaching is, at least partly, or as you said: "indirectly" paid for via grants through the US/Texas governments. 

I hope you are ready to act on your own words and return the money to the US taxpayers.

Liars, hypocrites and populist demagogues

Islamist liars like this Haji nuke, (this nuke lobbyist for the Islamist Rapist gets his salary from a NIOC grant) have no shame, after all they are Islamists and being a shameless liar is a necessary part of their barbaric dogma.  

The same shamelessness goes for the hypocrites and the populist demagogues as well. These folks have no problem in having two sets of standards. One for their NIAC lobby in which it can work for the U.S. Government agencies including CIA, get money from the U.S. Government and taxpayer funded foundations. The justification being, after all it is an American lobby.

But the very same hypocrites and populist demagogues are totally against Iranians caring about Iran getting any help from U.S. or any other sources, saying it ain’t right to get help from outside the ring.  The justification being it “taints” Iranians. Go figure these hypocrites and populist demagogues.

MK,

I support anyone with an intelligent global perspective speaking to the CIA or the US Secretary of State, particularly if he/she happens to be Iranian--NIAC member or otherwise.

regime change? - Here is a Trita quote from his ONLY IC-blog

"XXXX, for you to advocate everything just short of all out war against Iran, including crippling sanctions and a military attack is fine. That's all fine so long as everyone here sees from what angle you and other anti-NIAC individuals are coming from.There is however in my view a vast majority of Iranians who don't want to see grave suffering unto Iranians, who don't want to see military strikes against their country. These people, and myself included, hate the Islamic Republic. But as much as we hate the Islamic Republic we love Iran even more."

"It seems that in your case your hate for the mullahs surpasses your love for Iran, which is why you don't mind seeing bombs dropped on Iranian soil and the suffering of individual Iranians. For those of us who oppose these acts against Iran, I think NIAC is more in tune with our sentiments. For people like you who welcome these attacks against Iran and Iranians, it is understandable that you would oppose NIAC."

How do you know he "lectured"? Based on Eli Lake?

Your beef is with the word "lecture".  How do you know he "lectured" at CIA? Based on the ultimate AIPACer, Eli Lake?

PS, If you solely rely on teaching and writing books as means of support, your situation and preferences are you own problems.  Every other Iranian-American professor who does research in the USA or has a good idea to try out, gets grants from the US government to support his/her research and or students.

Kolah makhmali jaan

Mokhlesim. 

Questions for Ari on Working with the CIA

Ari,

So you 100% support working for and with the CIA???????? Or is it ok only for members of NIAC????

MK

Mammad and MM

Dear Mammad,

Thank you for the answers.

This is what you wrote to Fred:

"Aside from the contradiction, name the Foundation that funds NIAC, but some of its funds come from the taxes. Name it to demonstrate it to the readers that you are not as usual making things up just to score point - in your fantasies, of course.

As far as I know, the Foundations that have funded NIAC are totally private"

MK: My post shows that your view or impression was wrong and that in fact NIAC on 3 different occasions got large sums of money from NED, which is funded by the U.S. Congress. So, on getting money from U.S. taxpayers, Fred was right and you were wrong.

Mammad: You criticizing Trita (if you do)

Masoud: I strongly condemn Trita for lecturing for the CIA. I strongly condemn NIAC for soliciting funds from the U.S. government (via NED). I strongly condemn NIAC for not supporting changing the fundamentalist terrorist regime. I strongly condemn Trita for his sitting and working with the fundamentalist regime Ambassador in Sweden (if my memory serves me right it was IRI ambassador or such high IRI official and the photo was at Payvand.com many years ago). I strongly condemn Trita for his relationship with the fundamentalist regime ambassador at the UN (e.g., exchanging views and analysis and helping make connections).

In my opinion, Trita’s relationship with the officials of the fundamentalist regime (with IRI ambassador to Sweden and UN) do NOT help the opposition and HELP the fundamentalist regime. Do you agree or disagree with my assertion/perception? Do YOU say that Trita meeting with IRI’s ambassadors are bad for the IRI and good for those who want to replace this regime (with say democracy)?

The PRIMARY question is this: Are the actions* of NIAC and Trita Parsi good for the fundamentalist regime or are they bad for the fundamentalist regime?

*By actions, I refer to the bulk of their activities and not a few minor stuff on human rights (regardless of whether the human rights stuff are genuine or engaged at to present a facade of caring for human rights in order to fool others, or perhaps to undermine the perception that they are lobbyists for the fundamentalist regime).

In my opinion, we have to condemn the officials of the fundamentalist terrorist regime, we have to expose their crimes, we have to demand an end to this brutal dictatorial regime. In my opinion, these are the moral and ethical policies of what decent democrats should do.

I have only seen probably 1% of NIAC stuff, so correct me if my perception is wrong. NIAC has not called for regime change (simply say "we support changing the ruling dictatorship to democracy"). Am I right or am I wrong? Does NIAC support the overthrow of the ruling fundamentalist terrorist regime? Yes or no?

Best,

MK

======================================

MM,

1. I strongly CONDEMN Dr. Trita Parsi for lecturing for the CIA. I also strongly condemn him for his meetings with the officials of the fundamentalist terrorist regime ruling Iran (IRI ambassadors to Sweden and UN).

2. I was invited. I declined.

3. No, I have NOT applied for any such fundings. You have to ask OTHER professors about THEIR sources of funding.

You confuse the role of individuals (who as part of their job apply for grants to do research) and political or policy-oriented ORGANIZATIONS for Iranian causes. NIAC claims that it is an Iran-American organization. Does getting money from the U.S. government (via NED) mean that they could not get the money they operate on from their actual members (presumably Iranian-Americans) ??????

In conclusion, I do NOT follow NIAC stuff. Once in a blue moon, when something is posted, I may look at it. I do not regard them as significant players in Iranian politics. So, I do not even read most of the stuff on NIAC on this site or elsewhere. I would guess that I have looked at about 1% of their stuff. So, these are my perceptions based on very limited attention to their stuff. The little I have seen, have made me to strongly oppose and condemn them.

Logically speaking getting money from one source does not negate also getting money from another source. As the Persian proverb goes: "ham az toubreh mikhoreh ham az akhor." Remember Chalabi dude, he was collaborating with both the U.S. government and with the fundamentalist regime ruling Iran. Also see the news about Karzai. Perhaps also some in Iraqi politics.

I hope I am explaining my position clearly. My position is that we have to have the main goal of overthrowing the fundamentalist regime. And we should work independently from other government to accomplish this goal.

I hope this is clear and helpful.

MK

مسعود جان

شنیدم مصدقا خیلی دوست داشتی :)

دمت گرم ... !

Good points, MM, including

Good points, MM, including the one alluding to USG educational grants. I was actually a fortunate recipient of one many years ago.

MM

Well Expressed points. NIAC is an American institution, and we are after all Iranian-Americans.

Dr. kazemzadeh

Thank you for posting these references regarding NIAC and they actually re-enforce the notion that NIAC is dedicated towards Iranian-Americans, working towards a democratic Iran and is not associated with any governments or groups.  Let’s take your points:

A. In the same paragraph of the reference on CIA and HR Clinton, it explains that Trita knew about Obama's speech to Iranians several hours earlier than broadcast.  So I am guessing that they showed the contents of Obama's speech toTrita and asked for advice/comment.

B. NED as you called it, is: The National Endowment for Democracy (NED), and is a private, nonprofit foundation dedicated to the growth and strengthening of democratic institutions around the world. Each year, NED makes more than 1,000 grants to support the projects of non-governmental groups abroad who are working for democratic goals in more than 90 countries.  The information above and more is at the site you quoted. 

Besides, there is nothing wrong with getting grants from the US government for the sake of promoting democracy.  I am almost certain that, as professors, you and mammad have also applied and may have gotten grants to do research/teach from the US government!

C. Fred!

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So, I would like to answer your questions:

1. Do YOU support Dr. Trita Parsi presenting his lecture (information and/or analysis) for the CIA? Please yes or no.  How do you know that what he presented to CIA and HR Clinton would be detrimental to Iranian security?  The reference you sited suggests that the "lecture" may have been advice about Obama's Norouz greeding to Iranians.  If so, YES.

2. Would YOU go and present a lecture for the CIA?  See point 1 and text above!  It would not advisable for Trita to lecture on security matters so that he maintains his independence.

3. Do YOU support getting funded indirectly by the U.S. government (i.e., funds coming from U.S. Congress to NED to one’s group)? Yes or no?  NED is a non-for-profit, non-partisan and private organization, and getting grants from them would be fine with me (see their website).  Now, Dr. Kazemzadeh: Have you applied for US government grants?  How about the rest of you Iranian-Americans, especially lecturers/professors?

Vildemose

Why is it that you are so interested to see the answers, and why is it that while you are waiting for my answers, you are also laughing out loud? What is in this for you? Just having one other "reason" to be sarcastic with me, as you often have been?

Sorry to disappoint you with my answers. But, hay, I am not here to please you or anyone else for that matter, but only to express my opinion and, quite frankly, do not give a hoot to what anyone - including you - thinks of my opinion. This is not a popularity contest, but a political debate. I also am not a member of the "wind party," as you often seem to be. My beliefs have been formed over decades.

Mammad

Dr. Kazemzadeh

The answers are no, no, and no.

Supporting someone's effort regarding a certain issue does not imply supporting everything that the person does. The opposite is also true, in my opinion. Opposing a certain action by someone does not imply opposing everything that the person does.

I have always said, and repeat it again:

Support what must be supported, reject what must be rejected, and criticize what must be criticized.

You criticizing Trita (if you do) - whom I totally and wholeheartedly respect while at the same reserve the right to disagree with on certain things -  is worlds apart from what the confessed AIPAC lobbyist does. I respect you as an Iranian nationalist - even though I disagree with you completely regarding sanctions and a few other issues. As for Freddo, well.....

As for Trita, the notion that he is an IRI lobbyist is so wackly, so absurd, so ridiculous, so..... to me. But, what you list actually supports my point in that post, namely, that if NIAC has received funds from the organs of the US government or the tax payers funds, and if Trita has done what you say he has and what Freddo says, then how can he be a lobbyist of the IRI at the same time? 

Mammad

P.S.: Please do not refer to me as Professor. I appreciate your respectful tone, but I prefer a simple Mammad.

No question about it

Well, Masoud, depends on the content of Parsi's presentation to the CIA. If the presentation includes a promotion of peace with the Islamic Republic of Iran based on the interests of the United States, that'd be great.

Keep in mind, Flynt and Hilary Mann are ex-CIA associates that currently espouse US peace with Iran based on American interests, so this is not far fetched.

Yes, to answer your question, I would definitely address the CIA to promote peace with Iran based on US interest.

Of course, this is considered sacrilege to disgruntled Iranian exiles, who are perfectly willing to put their own personal beefs before the interests of ordinary Americans, as well as ordinary Iranians living in the old country. 

Excellent questions. Waiting

Excellent questions. Waiting for answers with anticipation...lol