masoudA

masouda The people did

masouda The people did settle in Iran then went to Europe then back and then back to EU again.

Ali Mostofi

//www.alimostofi.com

SamSam & Ali

My whole point is that all references you posted are part of the campaign to spread the big lie about Persia - yet you list and make references to them!!!?   Are you from Khouzestan?  Yes Khouz and Ilam were some of the oldest Persian territories north of the Persian Gulf - but the point is not to list people and tribes who moved into the already civilized Iran  - the point is the plateau was where civilization was originaly formed (Craddle of Civilization) via agriculture, domesticating animals, ect.......

Having said that - there are many many THEORIES floating around - but as I told Azadeh - I think we can all agree that the THEORY of Iran having become civil some 3,000 years ago by way of Aryans (or anyone else) moving into it IS TOTALLY FALSE.   Don't you agree?  That is what children of the world have been (and still are) learning in schools - and do you know why?   I have a couple of THEORIES on that:

1- Isrealites insistance that they are the chosen people and the oldest civilization.....

2- Our Persian culture, Zartosht teachings,...... undermines/challenges all 3 major religions - and as a result they all want to push us under......  

Dear Ali Mostofi

Let's not forget we are not talking about where humans popped up, where hunters and pickers lived, etc..... we are talking about early civilizations here - and in particular first civilizations in the Persian Plateau here.    

Wrong all of you.

You all, including the folks over at SOAS need to do a bit of home work.

https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/lan/en/atlas.html 

The Zend-Avesta confirms that there was an ice-age, and that Yima, or Jamsheed, or James, was told to move south becuase of an impending ice age at 10,000 BC.  So The Ancients as I call them are very old.  Yes we are at least 20000 years old.  And it all links with the other calendars ending on Yalda 2012.

There is a heck of a lot more on this. 

Ali Mostofi

//www.alimostofi.com

They Came & Some Left

Yes, around 10,000 years ago after the last ice-age people moved south from Siberia into India and into Khorasan and Azarbaijan all the way to Khuzestan, Shoosh, Jiroft and Kerman, they settled there till Arab attack of 7th century then Partheans moved back north and settled in Northeast Caspian(khazar) lake, Aryans settled in Khorasan and Azarbaijan, and few moved farther into Europe and Medes mostly settled in western Iran and Eastern Iraq all the way to Georgia.

In the meantime Arabs, Macedonians, Assyrians, Babylonians, Ilaami, Moghol, Roman and Ottomans entered and left Iran each leaving their mark and their babies. So the old Persia is no more, today's Iran is a combination of at least 10 tribes if not more with mixed blood. Same is true about most other nations but the island nations with little access.

Dear Mr Masoud, re; your Aryan question

My friend your blog has many claimes loosely connected without any evidence to back them up & since I cant possibly respond to these claimes in a mere comment I will passingly bring to your attention a few items so it might help you to come to my conclusion. (btw I think you totaly misunderstood the points made by Azadeh Azad which was infact debasing your argument & for the life of me cant figure out how you found it to be in your compliment:).  

First off, The plateau later to be known as Iranian was inhabited by urbanite, civilized native Khouz & Ilymites for more than 10 mileniums prior to the later arrival of Indo-Iranic/IndoEuropean elemnts of post Bronz age between 2000BC-700BC bringing their totaly new & separate form of language/culture & iconery on to the scene

Iranic people were a historical ethnic-linguistic group and a major offshoot of proto-IndoEuropean tribes of the late Bronz age. Their earliest records on Russian stepps east of Aral sea, Ural Mountain & westward north of black sea is in early Iron age. The term Iran literaly means "the land of Aryans", The term Iranian is derived from the ethnical adjective of Aryenum as noble or in Sanskrit Arya, in Georgian/ossetian Iro, and among ancient Iranic Alans Oir(as in kingdom of Oirleans France which they helped create around 400AD).

Between 2000BC - 700BC a great linguistic-cultural entity totaly different & detached from the native Ilymite & khouzi natives of plateau presents itself  beyond an iotta of doubt & evident in more than 2900 archeological digs, inscriptions.

By 1200BC a large migration of major branches of these ancient people of the stepps occured past the Caucuses and along the southern ways of Zagross Mt and southwest ward in the east flank of Alborz Mt. Among them were Medes, Persians, Bactrians, Parthians, Yazu , Soghdians & minority Scythians while at the same time their other Indo-aryan kinzmen such as Iranic Scythians(Saka, Daha), Cimmerians, Sarmatians(later ancestors of SerboCroats) & Alans stayed back in their original motherland of the stepps & mostly to the east & north of the black sea. Among the latter these Iranic speaking kinzmen spread as far & wide into Balkans, Crimea Ukrain,Kushan india & Xingjan China(Scythians, & later Sarmatians), into central Europe(Alans, Cimmerians).

This is not me saying it, its evident in their contrast to the original native Ilymite-khouzi with totaly different IE languages, their totaly different Avestan-Mithra Diety, culture, Nomadic customs which are extremely similar whether it s dug in western Siberia(frozenScythian mounds of the dead) or in Archeological digs of western/southwtern Iran. On top of that all we have hundreds over hundreds of rock cliffe inscriptions in which the Medeo-Persian kings have claimed their ethno-lingual aryeh lineage for all to see.

I finally urge you to verify these if in doubt by refering to hundreds of books on the subject done by reknowned Iranologists as stated below;

Will Durant age of faith(I have all 5 volums & recommend it as well)

Richard Frye, Greater Iran,

Jamsid rajparat  Indo-Iranians

Lithelton C, Iranic Scythian & Camelot

Malori JP IndoEuropeans

William sims IndoEuropean & Indo-Iranian languages

HG Wells History of the near east

Homi Havel Saga of Aryans & Avestan hymens

J Harmatha Emergence of Indo-Iranians

Oxford, Encyclopidia Britanica, Meta press,

Will Durant

 Frnces Taylor Scythian & Iranians in southern Don(Russia)

G Gnoli Iranic identity

R Schmidt  Aryans

H W Bailey Arya(part sub section of britanica)

D N Mackenzie Eran Eranshahr, Pahlavi language

Richard Berzinski the Sarmatians

J Minorski  Azarbaijan

Ahmad Kasrawi  all his books on language & history

& last but not least Shahnameh

Cheers!!!

btw*Ghiassabadi is an ommatie stooge with an agenda just like pourpira

Path of Kiaan Resurrection of True Iran Hoisting Drafshe Kaviaan //iranianidentity.blogspot.com //www.youtube.com/user/samsamsia

Good Post Azadeh

I think we all agree on the fact that Aryans were not the original Iranians.   That was the whole point of my blog - the biggest lie about Persia is that most 19th and 20th century historians spread the false theory that Aryans moved to the plateau some 3000 years ago and created a civilization.   Today, new theories based on latest archeological findings) have surfaced (including the one by Reza  Moradi) which suggest the central desert of Iran was once a giant lake, and some of the most ancient towns such as hamedan, yazd, kerman, rey, kashan, semnan, were all lakeside city and towns.  

masoudA

 The Iranian plateau has always had inhabitants, from the Palaeolithic nomads to the Neolithic villages - from the Caspian Sea shores to Khuzestan. There is nothing new in that.

 However, the archeological digs show that these people were not Aryans. You contradict this theory and MM (who agrees with you) suggests Reza Moradi Ghiasabadi's article. 

//www.cais-soas.com/CAIS/Anthropology/aryans_immigration.htm

Well,  this article is not only very badly written, but what is more  deplorable is that it contains a very strange contradiction. The author says:

 ‘’Therefore, if on one hand we manage to prove that natural and climatic environment of Iranian Plateau was one of the most suitable one for human settlements at that time and on the other hand show that life conditions on far northern regions of this plateau (i.e. the hypothetical origin of Aryans) were far away from what is called ‘suitable environment,’ then not only we can seriously question the validity of the above theories in relation to the path and direction of the above migration, but show that it most probably took place in the opposite direction, that is from Persia (Iran) to other parts of the world.''

Azadeh

fine!

sweet dreams ...

A Fattollah

shoma bikhial sho...... this is not for you

It's not Persia, but Iran!

so the Arabs and Turks and so many others before them (I don't know the names of ...) depleted the forrests and lakes of Iran and thus our "dear" cousins, the Germans, Irish, Croats and Bulgarians migrated from the beloved Iranshahr, No?

Takhte Jamshid was excavated and dug up in 1930s and by the French, Americans and others ... 

The Urumiyeh lake is dying these days, who will you blame this time, Islam?  

Ta mitavani tabar-ra bishtar bala bebar! 

Get it grip man! 

Coo Coo You

My dear constitutionalist - I hope you put Islam out of your version of constitution.... judging by this post...I am not sure. 

As for the post - where is your proof?  do a wiki search for Iran and wine and it tells you: 

 //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_wine

and don't forget Georgia and Armenia were both part of the Persian Empire... 

"........The history of wine spans thousands of years and is closely intertwined with the history of agriculture, cuisine, civilization and humanity itself. Archaeological evidence suggests that the earliest wine production came from sites in Armenia, Georgia, and Iran, dating from 8000 to 5000 BC......." 

For more info I suggest you contact University of Chicago, History Dept.  -  UC is the entity that has been studying archeological findings from Iran since the 1930's - and unlike places like Harvard, they do not push for Arabification/nomadication of Iran.  

You may or may not know it - but there is a deliberate attemt to undermine Persia and our culture (Hence the Persian Gulf issue).....and before you start calling people coo coo - I suggest you try to overcome historical artifacts and theories that are fed to you in the west.   People like me work hard to help the inflicted ignorance on our history amongst Iranians - yet bozos like you jump pa berahneh calling Arab Nomads assets of human evolution!!!

BTW - I am anxiously waiting for you to provide some proof of your claims about fabricated archeological claims PRIOR to 1978.   You don't know that my young friend, but from the 1930 to 50's several teams of German, French, British and Americans scientists conducted research in Iran.

And while you are at it - read this book about the Irish and how they claim to be rooted in Persia - written by Lady Francesca Wilde (mother of Oscar Wilde).

//i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/i/tim//2009/12/18/fmimg4660619833950877216_257x386.jpg

Here is the intro to the book:

 //www.libraryireland.com/AncientLegendsSuperstitions/Introduction.php

 And here is what she says:

..........This source of all life, creed, and culture now on earth, there is no reason to doubt, will be found in Iran, or Persia as we call it, and in the ancient legends and language of the great Iranian people, the head and noblest type of the Aryan races. Endowed with splendid physical beauty, noble intellect, and a rich musical language, the Iranians had also a lofty sense of the relation between man and the spiritual world......... 

Read it all - maybe you learn a thing or two - the Irsih take pride to be of Persian ancestory. 

Dear MM - thank for the info.   I don't know how it is that people who lived in todays Iran some 10,000 years ago are not considered Iranains - yet the Arians who are claimed to have moved into Iran some 3,000 years ago are considered original Iranians. 

MasoudA, As you said, the

MasoudA,

As you said, the Aryans/Persians have always been where they are.  For origins of Persians, see the following link to a CAIS article on why Persians did not come from the North:

IRANIAN PEOPLES - Aryans' Immigration By:  Reza Moradi Ghiasabadi

//www.cais-soas.com/CAIS/Anthropology/aryans_immigration.htm

coo coo, coo coo, coo coo

Not sure what science you are referring to.

Maybe back up your wild claims with some facts.

Humans have actually lived there for more than 40,000 years.  Were they speaking Indo-European languages?? Fuck no!!!!

First as hunter gatherer, then as nomads and finally settled society about 8000 years ago.  Persians didn't show up till 2500 years ago.  No matter how much your bloated ego wants to revise history.

Your conclusions about Nomadic peoples is wrong.  Nomads spread life.  They don't settle down in one place permanently for this reason.  They don't want to deplete the natural resources around them too much.  Settled societies are the ones that started destroying large tracks of Forrest to keep warm and to cook food.  Nomads mostly persist on a "raw" or "fermented" diet and they move with the seasons to keep warm.  

This kind of ignorant egotistical rantings are the exact reason why the world doesn't take Iranian archeology seriously anymore.  There have been many cases during and after the Pahlavi regime that Iranian so called archeologists were caught red handed trying to fake or exaggerate  their findings.

You have to be able to separate your emotion from science.  From your article sounds like you got the two mixed up real good  

Thanks for truth

about our civilization.