Davidka - Israeli secrets are revealed

why dont you load your

why dont you load your hatred zionist trash somewhere else?

Hamas is the one who lives in denial

along with those who fall into their perennial diatribe of being the victimized.

Master Mehdi

Some of us spent our entire lifetime in denial.

Some of us as human beings TRY to see the light

Some of us can't see the light

Which one are you?

capt_ayhab [-YT]

capt_ayhab -

You can believe to anything you wish to believe in. The truth is, authority and independence is not handed to anyone on a silver plate. They make it to themselves.

When Hamas will stop with its sick ideology of re-living Islam's so-called "Golden era" during the 8-11th century. Rather live on solid ground of realities of today.

When they spend their time to build Gaza, and improve the lives of the pals in Gaza, instead of try to destroy the lives of the Israelis.

And when they stop playing the victims when Israel comes in and kicks their asses to stop the senseless rockets.  After which Hamas tries to extort the already warped emotion of the world communities by displaying the dead bodies of their children for all to see the ugly pictures. then maybe will have some chance of peace.

To achieve peace, one has to want peace, not  war.

Hamas gets its support from the despotic Mullahs. These Sunni idiots in Gaza (and Damascus) really believe that bunch of Shi'ite in Tehran, who are masters in that Iranian famous gamesmanship of  "Ta'arrof" - the art of  pretending to be your friend (while they are your worse enemies). Not realizing that the Palestinian are (again) being used by their newly found Mullahs to serve their own political and regional objectives.

Those Hamas fools is being taken for a ride by bunch of 7th century insidious and cunning akhoodah, and they don't even "get it".

After all, the late Abba Eban was right when he coined the phrase.

"Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity".

Always allian themselves with losers and themselves end up losing.

Plan "D"

excerpts:

They know that the horror now raining on Gaza has little to do with Hamas or, absurdly, “Israel’s right to exist”. They know the opposite to be true: that Palestine’s right to exist was cancelled 61 years ago
and the expulsion and, if necessary, extinction of the indigenous people was planned and executed by the founders of Israel. They know, for example, that the infamous “Plan D” resulted in the murderous de-population of 369 Palestinian towns and villages by the Haganah (Jewish army) and that massacre upon massacre of Palestinian civilians in such places as Deir Yassin, al-Dawayima, Eilaboun, Jish, Ramle and Lydda are referred to in official records as “ethnic cleansing”. Arriving at a scene of this carnage, David Ben-Gurion, Israel’s first prime
minister, was asked by a general, Yigal Allon, “What shall we do with the Arabs?” Ben-Gurion, reported the Israeli historian Benny Morris, “made a dismissive, energetic gesture with his hand and said, ‘Expel them’. The order to expel an entire population “without attention to age” was signed by Yitzhak Rabin, a future prime minister
promoted by the world’s most efficient propaganda as a peacemaker.

The terrible irony of this was addressed only in passing, such as when the Mapan Party co-leader Meir Ya’ari noted “how easily” Israel’s leaders spoke of how it was “possible and permissible to take women, children and old men and to fill the roads with them because such is the imperative of strategy … who remembers who used this means against our people during the [Second World] war... we are appalled.”.........

//iranian.com/main/news/2009/02/07/holocaust-...

capt_ayhab [-YT]

Thanks.

Nice pic by the way, didn't get to say it back then.

Zion

welcome back

tsion...:-)

Out of Middle east

Go back to where you came from

.

Got it

No big deal after all.

It's nothing really

My comments with Monty Python links were deleted and I finally decided to give them a piece of my mind. ;-)

The change feels good. I'm actually enjoying the new face.

thanks my friend, but no worries.

Zion- What the F Happend Now?

Why did they do this? Tsion is better anyway:)))) This is really silly.

Hi again!

Well sorry for the change of cloth, but the dear moderators seem to prefer this shape! ;-)

Dear AI,
Indeed. I totally agree.

'Was there an intent by the Israeli side to take advantage of the war imposed on it by the Arabs and to grab more land '

It is not even a question of intent. Israel had every right to the lands. She was invaded with the inent to be annihilated, and the status of those lands were and still are legally unclear.

-------------------------
Dear Mehdi,

I know exactly what you mean. Perhaps that is another way of putting it.

zion

You pretty much completed what I had in mind to write at the end of my last reply.

Except, I don't think Ben Ami "messes up things". Rather he speaks of the conflict with high intellectual terms, which goes over head many pundits. These are the one who already had made up their minds against Israel BEFORE even listening to any Israeli side. They just listen to "code words" like "expelled", "forced", and war to support their own prejudices. "oh, you see, I AM RIGHT, the Israelis are bad, because I already had  made up my mind they they are bad. And damn it, I am so right that even Israelis themselves affirm MY JUDGMENT. 

Forget the plight of the Palestinians. It is obvious many of those heart bleeding posters don't give rat ass to their interest. These idiots just pick a subject which will give them the so-called "moral" and "political" cover to express their own prejudices or other emotional problems which may ill them. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict provides them the perfect ground to do just that. Bash Jews, while pretend to be concerned about others.

NICE TRY LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. Unfortunate (for you), that trick is well known and already worn out.

Zion I agree with you also

Ben Ami's stance and explanation is only misused by the likes of Finkelstein and the Left which eventually trickles down to Islamic Fundamentalists......

Additionally, Beni Ami totally fails to mention the non Palestinian Arab hands in promoting Palestinian exodus in 1948. Somehow people have managed to blame the entire 1948 Palestinian refugee issue on Israel which is totally inaccurate and false.

Was there an intent by the Israeli side to take advantage of the war imposed on it by the Arabs  and to grab more land and kick out Palestinians as a consequence? Sure there was. But the Arabs also had their own plans in making refugees and this is well documented. I remember watching a great PBS program regarding 1948 where Arabs from all sides were interviewed and gave detailed accounts of how Palestinians were encouraged to pack up and leave in 1948... The revisionist Left conveniently leaves these accounts out. 

The intellectual Ben Ami also forgets these details and gives his on twist on it to avoid conflict with the Leftist I think.  

Actually

Mehdi, I know what you are saying but the fact is Ben-Ami is messing things up. The case for Israel is clear. Jews need a place of refuge and they have a right to this land, it has always been their land. This is not a debate. Arabs should have realized this and accepted the Jews as a part of the land entitled to their state, and there would be no need for defeat or humiliation or any moral issue. They failed and they have only themselves and their leaders to blame for any pain they had to go through. Period. There is no use in further debate unless this point is agreed on. It has nothing to do with who is born in sin or nonsense like that.

What he says is understood only by those who know the context, know the situation in Israel, know the Palestinians inside Israel, in the territories and so on. This is not something outsiders would get, and is not the kind of thing to hand over to the likes of Finkelstein in a debate. You discuss with a Neturei Karta guy about what the Jews went through and he will only see the need to repent and wait for the true Messiah, and not a moral justification for the state of Israel. You talk to a typical lefty of our time or someone like Ahmadinejad who denies Jews have a national identity and he will only see justification to get retribution from the Europeans and stay. So they only grab the part about sin and what happened to arabs and they'll run with it.
It is not the first time Ben-Ami has been doing this. He messed things up in Spain some time ago too. He messes things up by this kind of speech for no good reason whatsoever. No wonder the likes of Finkelstein love to debate with him. Let them debate some real Israeli debater like Sharansky, Bibi or even Peres when it comes to this and their fallacies and lies will be ripped to be pieces.

Thank you Mehdi!

Thanks for actually listening to what Ben Ami says instead of making up more stories and lies to muddy the waters in favor of stupid Ahmadinejad arguments and reasoning supported by some here.

IRregardless of any political participation

by me, the double standards aspect of this is what pisses me off.  it's the same old thing... NOW you believe what an israeli says, eh Q?  how convenient.  how very very convenient.

Anonymous8 and other anti-israelis

One would think, there are intelligent people participating on this forum. By that I mean, sit down read, or listen carefully to what they read and watch on the screen.

By and large I try to be courteous and cordial here on these forum. But that are time (like in this case), I see the need to depart from that code.

Some of you are just dumb. Did you listen to what Ben-Ami was saying, and did you understand to what EXACTLY he was referring to.? off course some of you shallow butt heads didn't. It is obvious he was talking way over the head of many of you out there.

Here are the exact text of Ben-Ami's comment. READ THE FREAKING THING, then we will talk about it 

A.G.: Question: I began by asking the former Foreign Minister of Israel, Shlomo Ben-Ami, about the founding of Israel in 1948.

SHLOMO BEN-AMI:
In 1948, what was born was a state, but also original superpower in
many ways. We have prevailed over the invading Arab armies and the
local population, which was practically evicted from Palestine, from
the state of Israel, from what became the state of Israel, and this is
how the refugee problem was born. Interestingly, the Arabs in 1948 lost
a war that was, as far as they were concerned, lost already in
1936-1939, because they have fought against the British mandate and the Israeli or the Jewish Yishuv, the Jewish pre-state, and they were
defeated then, so they came to the hour of trial in 1948 already as a
defeated nation. That is, the War of 1948 was won already in 1936, and
they had no chance to win the war in 1948. They were already a defeated
nation when they faced the Israeli superpower that was emerging in that
year.

Yes B.A does admit Arabs were " evicted". BUT as my original post describes "force" was not the only method used.

It was war which 6 Arab countries had INITIATED AGAINST ISRAEL. left only two choices on the table "either us, or you". It was them.  

Show me where he is admitting to Israeli atrocities agaisnt the Arabs? Rather, he was just expressing his opinion about the Arab's state of mind, to which he belives had lead to their own defeat.

Here again. B.A replies to another E. G.'s question.

SHLOMO BEN-AMI: Well, you see, there is
a whole range of new historians that have gone into the sources of—the
origins of the state of Israel, among them you mentioned Avi Shlaim,
but there are many, many others that have exposed this evidence of what
really went on on the ground. And I must from the very beginning say
that the main difference between what they say and my vision of things
is not the facts. The facts, they are absolutely correct in mentioning
the facts and putting the record straight.

My view is that, but for Jesus Christ, everybody was born in sin,
including nations. And the moral perspective of it is there, but at the
same time it does not undermine, in my view, in my very modest view,
the justification for the creation of a Jewish state, however tough the
conditions and however immoral the consequences were for the
Palestinians.

Here he clearly opines that, in his view the creation of homeland (Israel) for the Jews was JUSTIFIED, despite Arab's claim of morality.

What he seem to clearly and indirectly indicate, that in lieu of the historical and tragic events (Persecution, Inquisition, Holocaust, Dhimmi, etc) experienced by Jews, had created enough moral justification.

Perhaps many of you need to read about Grand Mufti, Haj Muhammed Amin al-Husseini? . Back in 1939, This thug went to the Hitler and tried to convince him to come to Palestine and continue the Holocasut of Jews there.

With this type of ingraned hatred agasint them, you still think Jews and Israelis would have expected fair treatement from the local Arabs. 

That is what Ben Ami's central thesis.

But as usual for many pigheaded morons, you read and understand what you want to understand which support your own convoluted biases.

You are getting soft Q

You saying you now believe Israeli officials? Granted he is an ultra leftist buffoon, but still to believe Israeli officials... Q?
You disappoint me. I thought you only parrot the mix of IRI propaganda and ideological...ehem... "giants" like Finkelstein!

Ahhh what happened to the good old unrelenting Q we came to know and to love?

the Chutzpah on all these excuses!

You guys have an excuse for everything don't you?

So explain to me why anyone should take the word of two zionist parrots over that of Israeli foreign minister?

It's getting more and more pathetic every day around here.

Amy Goodman!!!!!

 Thank you for the clip, I listen to her very often, but never knew how she looked like.She is such a great Jewish secular, a granddaughter of an Orthodox rabbi ……and lived in Israel for a while….I admire her for being so honest and reporting every thing untouched and row.After Noam Chomsky   she is the 2nd person that I know .who tells the truth, we need more Jews like them. 

Thanks again

مورچهً فرنگی

Oy Vey

Shlomo Ben Ami is an ultra-leftist disaster. He is known as a laughing stock in Israel. No wonder the peace process was such a mess. With such idiots involved what else could it be. He is just the right kind of fool for ideological zombies like Finkelstein and Goodman.

'Except for Jesus Christ all other men and nations were born in sin...'

This is an example of this idiot's idea of diplomatic talk. Give me a break! lol.

YAWN, Mehdi, why are you contradicting Israeli officials?

(Zion, watch as he deletes the blog again!)

Perhaps you should listen to what your own foreign minister Shmolo Ben Ami has said about the ethnic cleansing, and "uprooting" of Arabs in 1948.

open your EARS and listen for the key words in his book: EVICTED, CONQUEST, RUTHLESS ISRAELI ARMI, EXPLOITS, INTIMIDATION, MASSACRE, ATROCITIES, IMMORAL. from 1:20

Why is it that you American Zionists are even bigger propagandists than Israelis themselves?

Arab leaders were so stupid to fall into such
a trap.

so it's OK to steel your land by using a "trap" ?

Thanks Mehdi

For debunking the nonstop stream of bias and hatred.
BTW, why did you delete the blog first time around? It had disappeared for some time.

[I hadn't realized the delete button was back again. :-)]