nozarmahallati

MRX

I know you don't. I don't blame you either. 

CHarismatic or not he is the best we have got. And you would be surprised how many iranians disagree with you on this. 

No one is born a natural leader! was Imam khomeini:) one? was Reza khan one? But as they gradually took power they gained experience in how to lead a country which did not amount of much of anything anyway. there is no such thing as a natural leader.

You are absolutely confused and it clearly shows. 

You proposed a millitary coup so that the IRGC could come to power Not reza pahlavi. 

Keep staying in the "all ears" position, it is doing you an awful lot of good.

Dr. Mohandes

I still don't know what or who the alternatives  you keep talking about are? you say alternatives, so I presume there are various people and groups you know that have a realy good chance of coming to power in omatestan. so who are they? Like I said I like to join the savior!

Reza pahlavi is a nice guy, but he is niether charesmatic nor is he a  natural leader. He is like Juan Carlos of Spain, he would need a Franco to bring him to power and that in turn would require some kind of miletary action just as I said. 

Like ross pero said ,I am all ears! dying to find out about a savior and his or her plan to come to power. please let me know.

MRX

What points??

1- I was referring to the same options we have before us, you know, your friend, Reza pahlavi,etc.

2- May have a better outcome than this? Really? Sure. let the infighting and inbreeding continue and we shall see a miracle at the end, and in the meantime to hell with all other alternatives because u , much like a "dokhtare dame bakht" who labels all the "khastegar" with something nasty, dismiss all other options.

3- Excuse me there, but that is what people want precisely to happen and this time they mean it. The whole point of wanting to make something happen is to get rid of them, otherwise why even bother doing anything at all? 

4- Ohhh... you are forcing itt out of me. Reza pahlavi maybe?

You tell me what kinda support irgc gets Locally and internationally? locally in terms of their popularity!! at least RP has the international part down and his local popularity is nothing to sneez at.

Emotion or not, people in iran can see things a lot better than you can, and i assure you that having your ideal plan executed is the last thing on their list!

Logic???!!!!! Say what??? Manie logic roo ham fahmidim LOL.  

Dr. Mohandes you just proved my point

I am honored to be nominated Doctor mohandess, but putting your sarcasim aside you have proven my point.

->You are simply out of your mind to think that we should dismiss all the options that we have now

 what options may that be professor? please enlighten us!

->lace our trust in a bunch of hooligans who we know for sure people
dispise and hate to death and to the core, so that they can take matters
into their hand , without a drop of blood being shed (are you nuts? a
millitary coup without bloodletting?)

Didn't say no blood shed, I said limited blood shed which is different than full scale civil war or  bloody revolution which at the end may not have a better out come than this!

->How are we supposed to win back the lost reputation by having a bunch of pasdars ruling over us?

Well first of all I said a transition period and secondly these pasdars are not going any where so unless your plan inlcudes executing one hundred thousend of them not sure how you are going to be dealing with them? may be you can bore them to death I don't know.

->The best option that we have, Is someone who NOW Is totally and forcefully against this system and whatever shit it stands for

and who  might that be? hopefuly not an invisble man. What kind of support this hero has localy or internationaly? who is he,I will be the first person to sign up with him!

Emotion is what 99% Iranian use to make a decision which is why the country is in this mess, logic one the other hand is hard to come by.

Why don't we Just Nominate You MRX?

WHo is begginghere and who is choosing? You seem to have got it all figured out there buddy , don't you?

Where did you learn to politically analyze things so eloquently and come up with the most radical and out of this world conclusions?? man, sam doneldson, Ted kopple got nothing on you!

You are simply out of your mind to think that we should dismiss all the options that we have now, and place our trust in a bunch of hooligans who we know for sure people dispise and hate to death and to the core, so that they can take matters into their hand , without a drop of blood being shed (are you nuts? a millitary coup without bloodletting?) and then somehow magically a civilian gov, will show up outta the blue FROM WITHIN THIS SAME system and its essence to make it all better and You call this a realistic scenario?

Kharet be chande mashti? halesh khoobes ya baz mes kerdi?

How are we supposed to win back the lost reputation by having a bunch of pasdars ruling over us? And why the hell is it that in every post of urs you mention how others have dreamed about reza khani!! or jefersonian democracy?? Is that your regular Line? makes you feel good repeating it, doesn't it? 

The best option that we have, Is someone who NOW Is totally and forcefully against this system and whatever shit it stands for, we don't need dreamers and so-called realists! who think craz ass plans have a potential to work!!  making decisions for us based on virtually nothing and only emotions.

Dr. Mohandes

Beggers can't be choosers ok. so let's look at the real options or lack of it for that matter:

1) Bunch of gooz o choos dinasour mossadegholahi, chappy, meli mazhabi can't even run a simple donut shop, much less taking a leadership to fight islamo facists! I think every one knows them,we do not even need to name them..............

2) There is an MKO (Organization that you guys hate so much). It has no chance unless it get's international support. If it does, and  there is a serious collaps  by islamists in charge the most you can opt for is Syria style civil war or MKO in charge. neither scenarioI am guessing  is appealing to you folks.

3) There is Reza Pahlavi who is a fine outstanding person. He can be a fine constitutional monarch but lacks charisma and natural leadership. He also lacks international support. He will not be going any where soon.

4) Green movement  is crushed. It has no leadership, no viable message. it is  coalition of different groups all playing their own drums. If Green movement succeeded we would have ended up with another sheikh o omati republic with some minor changes to satisfy few folks, that is about it.

we are  no longer a country with postive surplus,good international reputation with smaller population as we were in 1979. It is a  society with large population with more than 50% in poverty,  economicaly, socialy, moraly, spritualy and polictialy at the edge of bankruptnes with speratists waiting forthe first shots to be fired.There is no great Reza shah or thomas jefferson waiting in horizon to deliver your jeffersonain secualr progressive society that you folks keep talking abount.

The best path for the country is some sort of miletary coup (Spain, Chilli or Turkey are examples). This will keep peace and stability, very low blodd shed and evantualy in time the torch to be passed to a civilan government. Now that is relaistic scenario that will work.

MRX

First of all let me tell you that i do not consider any scheme/scenario whatever that involves the any entity or organ and it is centered around these guys qualified as "change" . 

When we or most people talk about change they are usually referring to a top to bottom kind of scenario and not just the same thing, but with more sauce or little more cooked version.

At this stage in our lives and particularly in the political landscape of iran, if we beieve that anything else but a fundamental shift will do the job and / or will put us on the path to prosperity, we are only simply kidding ourselves and we really really do not seek any change.

You need to sit down and take a long and hard look at the past and see how the green movement was subdued , derailed and their leaders are nowhere to be found. 

and yet you are still hanging on to the void belief that they will instill changes down the road? 

Dr. Mohandes

What you except to see in this scenario:  A change that will cause the  least damage to the country.  You can then start adding additional changes to it down the road, once you have some peacfull frame work to work with. Any other alternative (assuming there are others viable ones beside just talk and no action) will cause major blood shed and large possibility of civil war and disintegeration of the country. 

Nozarmahallati, you know who (plural) will save iran.

anyone who uses the peanut between their ears, knows who will save iran.

The anti-monarchists in power are not going to save Iran, they were change for the worse.  The anti-monarchists forces who helped them come to power currently, but lost when the dust settled, like mek, tudeh, mosadeghi's are not going to save iran.  By definition they are all changes for the worse.  If iranians were either honest or respectful and cared for one another then they would not have commited 1979 and would have admtted that the late shahs team was the best alternative iran had.  It requires understanding to answer the question, but the younger generation through the pain they have gone through are slowly finding the answer for themselves.  While the west opposes them and makes the work of the opposition tougher, monarchists wlll save iran because they can provide the most benefits for the future as the past clearly showed and most iranians accept the previous generation made big gutless disaterous mistakes.  Knowing irans culture and language, the importance of family, loyalty, courage and knowing exactly what is left when you remove god and corrupted religous authorities from the equation, would make the answer easier to see. The Monarchists living in every city, town, deh across iran.  

MRX

and just what do you expect to see at the end of this bloodless coup and a supposed transition to a civilian gov?
you do realize that all this will be happening within the context of this same shitty system, right?

Lack of options? says who?!

nozarmahallati

Trust? not at all. It's question of options or lack of it for that matter. A coup will be far more bloodless and far less destructive than any other alternatives proposed.

Coma is the word

The best word fit to describe the current situation iran is Coma. People are in a state of comatose and could not be bothered with anything and have found a way of adapting and adjusting to whatever shit gets thrown their way, the only argument is over the color and size of it...

A little too brown there...no ...that is way too green...cut the weight on it too...there you go...yeah right there! you got it man. sooouuweeeet!

Anglo

I think what I had attempted to say is that the well educated well to do professionals have the most common sense but didn't give a damn because they will not be returning to Iran; mostly because most of their kids were born in the U.S. or U.K. or Australia and these kids are quite happy where they are at.

Who will be the saviors?  Thats THE question.

MRX

WOW!  You trust the revolutionary gaurd?!  Serious?

Well Nozar khan

If the "well to do" crowd coudn't give a damn about Iran and in your opinion have common sense, then who is going to save Iran? :)

The only hope

is some kind of a coup by perhaps younger members of Rev guards to keep things together initialy and then gradualy pass it to some kind of a civilan government to run things.

Any other method from revloution to war or even civil war is going to be disaseterous.

Sanity or common sense

You have raised a good point; I may use the word common sense instead of sanity.

Iranians in diaspora are a different animal all together; mainly 5 groups.  Shah lovers, Shah haters, regime lackies, FOBs and highly educated successful professionals who are well to do and could not give a damn about Iran.

The only group that has common sense is the latter.

Nozar Khan

I don't know who is going to save Iran but I know what is going to save Iran: SANITY. At present there is a huge shortage of this commodity in our country and much less so among the diaspora community. Sorry that I couldn't find an optimistic answer.

Good question though :)