Where does legitimacy of IRI come from?

Re : Mental masturbation

Thanks for clarification,since I found out that we have some common areas to discuss;

I regret that you & I misunderstood eachother,I donot believe that all the problems of Iran are because of Islam either,but a major part of it!.We had the same problems with Zoroasterian Moghs.As far as mentioning Shahnameh,I have read all of them(Ferdowsi,Daghigh,Garshaasbi....),& have written a comprehensive article on Rostam & Afraasiyaab.As far As my studies have taught me,the characters are Mythological,so as a myth in its academic meaning,there is a truth behind them & are not totally fictious,( Rostam is proved to be the myth of a real Ascithis/Sekaaii knight).

I hope you are not serious about Shamlou!?since he is dead,he will be a useless witness for you.

Have a good night

Best Wishes

persia

i read shahnameh. everywhere in it ferdowsi uses the word IRAN! persia is an anglican name. it was is and forever will be IRAN!

Mental Masturbation

Not sure if the above Subject I listed will make it through the censor. But it is, what it is. This is all mental masturbation. Discussions of no consequence with people that are pseudo-intellectuals at best or simple bullies with a PC at worse.
But just so your comment does not remain unanswered: You started this entire discussion by asking where does the IRI get its legitimacy from? And you went on to list various lineages. And I replied by saying the legitimacy of the IRI comes from the people living in Iran. And though we wish it were not true, as much as I or you or any other Iran loving person wish Iran was like Switzerland, or any other country you hold as an ideal, the fact is, it is Iran. A muslim country with a VERY STRONG muslim tradition. Those are realities. Bringing up Shahnameh and other great works of ancient history makes no difference to what we have at hand. You say Islam is an occupying force. All religions are occupying forces. Which religion propagated its existence through non-violent means and survived? It's the entire premise of religion. That's why I personally am COMPLETELY AGAINST RELIGION. I believe you and Ebi have mistaken my comments as being a defender of Islam or the IRI. But my belief or yours vis-a-vis religion is really not relevant. Nor is it relevant how Islam got to Iran. Whether it is an alien force to Iran. The simple undeniable truth is that Islam is a part of Iran as much as Iran is a part of Islam. The Romans were pagans before Christianity came. Christianity came from the middle east and certainly was not native to Europe. Yet Christianity and the Judeo-Christian tradition is very much a part of European society. And no amount of philisophical contemplation will ever change that. All the laws that exist in the civilized world are based on the Judeo-Christian ethos. Where would the west be without it. The argument for Iran is the same. As much as we wish it weren't so. As much as I wish, or you and Ebi wish that Iran was free from the bonds of all religions, no matter what the denomination, it simply cannot be. It is the way it is.

Ferdowsi Shahnameh is not a book.it,s an epic

It,s not a fiction but facts siphoned out under cultural oppression by the great search  of Man who loved Iran and found part of his lost culture from under the rubble of occupation. I have read Ferdowsi and advise you to do so as well to lighten up a bit on what Will Durant called "Ferdowsi a man mad about Persia & Shahnameh The bullwark of Iranian spirit for the last 1000 years"..read earlier blog on ferdowsi;

//iranian.com/main/blog/samsam1111-1

I correct you for the 2nd time ; Diffrentiate between Arab occupiers & Islam..you keep mentioning "Islam" .It,s distorted..It wasn,t Islam,s preachings to invade a God loving nation like Iran.It was the greedy occupiers who did it under the banner of Islam.

btw as Ebi asked you , you haven,t picked neither num #1 or 2 yet.

Ebi !

Did he email you yet? lol

Jimsbund;

""How can some illegitimate tokhmeh Arabs rule the Aryan nation of Iranians legitimately ?!""

very easy..Occupation

Ferdowsi

Again you speak with such authority. Have you even read Shahnameh? In fact can you even read Farsi? BTW you do realize the characters in Shahnameh were in fact fictitious, and that they really didn't exist. Because I believe somehow you're passing the Shahnameh as a work of history which it is not.

YOU STILL DON'T GET IT!

The point I was trying to make is that you can't scapregoat Islam for all that ills Iran. You can't claim we were perfect before Islam arrived. And it was appropriate for me ask whether he knew anyone of importance from pre-Islamic Iran, since he claimed like you, with such AUTHORITY listing in bullet format why effectively Islam has no legitimacy in Iran. His argument, albeit on a very false premise, was that in spite of the last 14 centuries of Islam being in Iran, we should do as if it never existed. He like many people who haven't even visited Iran, let alone live in it for a prolonged period of time, is giving opinions and posing them as facts and all that about matters he has absolutely no clue about. Iran is a muslim country. PERIOD! Much like Italy is Catholic Country. It's the way it is. Many wish it wasn't so. No amount of self-loathing is going to change that. Do you get it now, or do I need to make it clearer for you?
And please don't talk to me about Shamloo, I would wager he would agree with me that Iran and Islam are aprt and parcel of each other.

Re : Iranian Heritage,Anonymous Iranian

Dear Masked historian friend.tnx for your piece,if you don't mind I want to add to your Historical FACTS:

1- Islam,liKe Christianity,Budism,Hinduism,Shamanism & many other religions in the world has contriibuted to the world's Architecture,phylosophy,art .....,not because it is a religion,but because the artists,scientists who beilived in Islam( or any religion) contributed to it.

2- You have derailed from the subject matter by asking unrelated questions from Samsam.This is not the right way to challenge him,knowing or not knowing names,does not make him wrong,or for that matter ,make you right !.

3-If you donot have the basic knowledge to research about the questions you asked,please register & email me.I would be honored to answer you,since I have literated many like you about the pre-Islamic era of Iran.

4- if you believe great poets in Iran,have achieved their greatness just through being Moslem,then what about Ahmad Shamlou,Forough Farokhzad,Ghorratuleyn,Nima youshij &......

if this is the case,then Shekespear,Loreka,Khaaraa,Lord Bayron &....

are great just because they were born Christian!?

thanks

Best Wishes

Anonymous Iranian

Here's what you wrote:
"Sure, I'm proud as much as the next person about my heritage. But the reality is, the average joe on the streets could care less, and they're the ones who are willing to put their lives on the line. What are you willing to sacrifice for your belief?"

That's one major difference between progressive and backward mentalities. In a democracy you don't have to "put your life on the line" for anything because people's rights are determined by constitutions that grant all citizens the same rights.

You can see for yourself in London and LA people are freely practicing their religions and there's no need for incessant blaring of revolutionary slogans.

By the way, what does the statement, "Granted the Mullahs hijacked the revolution." mean?

Aren't you inadvertently admitting that aside from Mullahs' followers there were others who were "willing to put their lives on the line" for the changes they never enjoyed because "the Mullahs hijacked the revolution"?

Give any democracy only very few short years and you'll see there's enough respect for people's beliefs and rights that they won't have to "put their lives on the line" for them.

It seems you're still seeing Iran's problems from a revolutionary angle. Let's not confuse the issues and leave the "revolutionary ferver" to the hard-core conservatives in Iran.

IRI not legitimate

How can some illegitimate tokhmeh Arabs rule the Aryan nation of Iranians legitimately ?! as for the popularity, people who have no hopes in this life cling to religion and superstitions for salvation in the next world. One of the highest period of Iranian Islamic civilisation was during the qajars during which Iran had to pay " hagheh tavvahosh" money to other countires and now with IRI joining the jihadist civilisation against other civilisations. 

  Sareh ghabreh khomeini out of  curiosity ???!!!!

Bund, Jimz Bund

Kaveh !

great one liner buddy!. Planned to respond on the subject but you said it short and to the point.!

The so called Iranian Renaissance ?

1st Off I can copy paste many sources for you to go and check the great literaly,scientical achievments of Iran prior to Khaliffate..read the books of Edward Brown or Will Durant and you find out or for philosophy go here www.avesta.org . btw the sudden outflow of writers after Khaliffate had nothing to do with them but the natural sudden burst of literaly & scientific work in the world after 900AD due to influx of great nomadic cultures and movements from india&china to the west and reverse.btw , even if we agree on your claime of great achievments under khallifate , it fails to answer my question;

Great achievments in the name of who? there was no Iran in the time span of the so called Renaissance and there was only a land occupied by Arab Khallifate. Except Ferdowsi the rest of the writers great work went to the credit of Khaliffate.I won,t get into as why Iran lost in those battles because it requires a huge deal of writing.and no!  our remembering our past glory did not start with Reza Khan but by great folks like Ferdowsi whom this regime & probably your class of thinking despise so much.

 And you just proved my points that "progress for the sake of progress" if done under a foreign banner is worth nothing & means nothing.

ps* you keep mentioning "Islam" .It,s distorted..It wasn,t Islam,s preachings to invade a God loving nation like Iran.It was the greedy occupiers who did it under the banner of Islam.

Cheers!

Iranian Heritage...

I got an idea; Lets burn and obliterate any sign of Islam in Iran for the next 18 generations and then, ask them 'what Islam' ? tell me the name of one ayatollah! one famous muslim ?

Iranian Heritage...

I was wondering how many poets or notable writers can you name from Kourosh's time? How about Dariush? How about Kambujieh? How about even Yazdegerd? In fact of the dozens of Achemenid and Sassanid kings how many can you personally name and say what their contribution to Iran was in particular? How many famous painters, architects, historians, scientists can you name from Pre-Islamic Iran? Not to say they didn't exist. But all the cultural beauty you know as Iranian today, whether you like it or not, whether you believe it or not, has STRONG Islamic influences. Where would Rumi, Shams Tabrizi, Hafez, Attar and the like be without Islam? To put it in perspective, for most of our 2500 years of recorded history about 1300 year Islam has been part and parcel of Iran. For better or worse Islamic expressions are freely used among non-Muslim Iranians. Islam is engrained in our identity. This Aryan, Persian non-sense that was started by Reza Shah needs to stop. If our race was so strong and invincible and pure how could a bunch of desert dwelling nomads conquer us?
I encourage you to have some perspective. In the course of history Islam has contributed much to humanity and when you think in real terms, the past 40 years where Islam has gotten a poor image because of bad rulers envoking its doctrines for personal benefit, it is but a hiccup in historical terms.

Anonymous Iranian!

your 1st question>Yes..& No I,m in direct touch with Iran....Religion the opium of the masses? No ,,religion on the contrary is the victim and pawn in the hands of some extremist mullahs to spread their own brand of alien culture. Even if I buy your argument of regime popularity among 70 million Iranians it doesn,t change anything.Being popular doesn,t make it legitimate .Germany,s rule over Russia,s Ukrane or Croatia during WW2 according to records was very popular but not legitimate because the occupiers  traced their identity to deutchland. for the argument sake even if 70 million current populace of Iran  via 30 yrs of constant alien propaganda love the regime , that doesn,t make the regime legitimate since that same regime distorts,censors,supresses,misrepresents & boycotts the collective heritage of the same populace who so called support it.you might say that it,s the will of the people if Iranians wish to forego of their past and heritage(miraculously)!. so be it..they just lost their right to that heritage and the name that goes with it;

cheers!

Legitimacy...

Not sure if you were in Tehran on that mild February day in 1979 when millions of people came out to welcome Khomeini, but I was. Granted the Mullahs hijacked the revolution, but their legitimacy comes from envokation of Shia doctrine. In case you haven't noticed not all of Iran's 70 million people live in London and LA. There are MANY people in Iran that are for this government, and unfortunately for the rest of us, they are the ones willing to go in to the streets, and put what matters to them most on the line. You have to go to Iran for yourself to see it with your own eyes to believe it. You can't size up the issue from in front of the computer reading impertinent material from even more impertinent people. On one visit to Iran I went to Khomeini's shrine out of curiosity. There were so many people that come there to pay their respects. They came from hundreds if not thousands of miles away. Even foreign Shia come to visit his shrine. And they come with cash. There were bank notes from all over the world in large piles that are regularly cleaned up by the staff. Relgion is indeed the opium of the masses.
We can go on and on about being "Persian" and talk about "Cyrus". But those days are long gone. Sure, I'm proud as much as the next person about my heritage. But the reality is, the average joe on the streets could care less, and they're the ones who are willing to put their lives on the line. What are you willing to sacrifice for your belief?