Why ethnic issues are not popular among Iranian/Persian?

Why ethnic issues are not  popular among Iranian/Persian?
by Savalan
12-Feb-2012
 

The Azerbaijani Turks, Kurds, Arabs, Baluches, Turkmens, Lors issues are not popular subjects, in Iranian/Persian community.

Because since the establishment of Pahlavi dynasty [in 1925, after the fall of the Qajar dynasty] non-Persians have been treated as second-class citizens and there have always been a lack of political and individual rights for them. There is deep and wide racism against non-Persian ethnic groups. They are subjected to racism and discrimination by not only the Iranian government but also by the Persian society.

So it's not surprising Persian media doesn't cover the issue, and if they do they represent the government's point of view.

In August 2010, the UN anti-racism panel called on Iran to counter racism and ethnic discrimination, including incitement to hatred by officials and "double discrimination suffered by women from minorities.

The Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination expressed concern at the exclusion of Arab, Azeri, Balochi, Kurdish and Bahai communities in areas such as housing, education, health, jobs and "from public life".


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Veiled Prophet of Khorasan

Regarding "Nejad" parasti

by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on

 

The people who are always talking "nejad" are Savalan and his buddy. Not the "Persian" in here. I have been on this site for over 3 year. Nobody makes a big deal like Savalan.

Take your own advise and stop defining all things in terms of race. Mr Savalan you are the one who has put race above all not any "Persian". For your information I am not by any definition "Persian". Because I got so much mixed race in me I fit no definition. My kids are even more mixed than I am. Too bad for people like you who are not going to be able to use the race card. Not that it will slow you but at least exposes you. My abero is fine how is yours? Have you met an Armenian recently? Why not ask them about abero. Maybe ask them about millions of their victims of your kind of nationalism. But of course you will never admit the results of your kind of deliberate hate mongering. Ro ke nist sang paye Ghazvineh. 

By the way Mr Urmufarzin if you want to discuss hate my blogs is open. Why don't you post there I wrote it just for that purpose. Meanwhile I will post my opinions whether you think they are helpful or not.


Savalan

Tahvil begirid, nejadparasti akharash biyaberoyist!

by Savalan on

Ey Nejad bartara :)

Man be shoma goftam ke kam begid "Iran Pars", "Ariyayi" va az in harfaye nejadparstane. Man behetoun goftam ke cheshmetoun kor shode va Iran ro hamash Pars Pars mibinid ve mikhaid bekonid. Hala ke dige aberotoun rafte va age hamintori edame bedid ziad mire man jaye shoma bodam hamin Iranian.com khodamo mashgol mikardam. Hahaha Ama ajab goft Ali Sufan.


UrmuFarzin

Threats!

by UrmuFarzin on

HA! You dropped the issue because I didn't threaten you! :)) You clearly don't understand what a threat is. I should report you for your threats against Azeris. So when you threaten to invade Azerbaijan and make bigoted and caustic remakrs against Azeris, I stand up for my ethnicity. YOU, take that as a threat, when it clearly is not. If you're going to make outlandish and infuriating claims against the Azeri people, at least have the decency to show us who you are. The comments that you make don't contribute to a fruitful discussion, just rouse hate-mongering VPK. 

Well I'm not arguing the existence of separatist elements in Azerbaijan, just like I'm not arguing against the like in Ahwaz, Kurdistan, Balochistan etc. But putting a stamp on an en masse civil rights movement and claiming that they have ulterior motives is just a way of convincing people that if you give them the RIGHT to educate themselves in their own MOTHER TONGUES, that they will all separate. It actually contributes to the opposite, a more fruitful and functioning society.

Azerbaijan has had experiments with autonomy and independence in the past. Those sentiments are slowly creeping back into the forefrunt because the Iranian ultranationalists refuse to give ethnic minorities the basic right of language, which I have outlined in international decree. How come the rest of the world understands this, but we Iranians are having such a tough time with it?


Veiled Prophet of Khorasan

Dear Dr. Ala and other friends.

by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on

 

Thank you for your defense of me; I appreciate your kindness. As you see there are some who gladly resort to threats of violence. This is one of the reasons people like me need to keep our identity hidden.

Anyway I like to explore the issue of violence more. But this is not the right place for it. For one thing I don't want to give this blog more attention. Therefore I wrote a new blog and invite you all to participate with your inputs.

http://iranian.com/main/blog/veiled-prophet-kh...

 


anglophile

UrmuFarzin

by anglophile on

I rarely, if at all, agree with Mohammad Ala but the question of ulterior motive is not as baseless as you insist. One of Pishevari's puppet government's plans was the same as what you claim to be the right of the Iranian Azeris: i.e. revivng, protecting and teaching Azeri as a mother tongue of the Azeri people. However, the present generation of Azeri children and youngsters who were born and brought up in their homeland either shortly before or after the fall of the soviet union, can hardly speak or are not even willing to speak Azeri! They prefer to communicate, even at home, in Russain. And this is the generation that were educated in the same Sovietic state that openly waged a secessionist war against the Iranian government  to protect the Azeri language and culture!

Now dadashi, is this still scare mongering. 

BTW, you speak with such authority as if you represent majority of Azeris. Any evidence to this effect my dadash? 


Veiled Prophet of Khorasan

Regarding threats

by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on

 

This Urmu has asked me to "meet him" in person sometime. He has said that I do not dare tell an "Azari" to their face what I said. I wonder why? It is pretty obvious that there is an implication of physical violence.

Basically he is threatening me with violence if I said this to his face. This is no surprise to me since violence is the first resort when logic fails. Given the behavior of pan turk on this site this is to be expected. 

However I want to remind them and the admin that violence is illegal in America. Threats of violence specially in a public post are illegal and criminal. I hereby request that those who use threats of violence be banned from IC: more on this.


Btw, if you can name one instance where I threatened VPK, I'll
apologize to him.

I see the person is already backtracking. But my request stands and I will write a blog exploring dangers of violence.

The worst thing I said is that you can't belittle my culture, my language, and my identity directly to my face.

Nobody owns a culture and I could make fun of any culture I want. I ask again what happens if I did make fun of "his' culture to his face? This sounds much like a threat. No to mention sending the Canadian "authorities" after me! 

By the way I never said Turks stole their culture from Persians and Arabs. I said Turks stole their "land" from Greeks and Armenians! Please get my posts right before you go on ranting.


Veiled Prophet of Khorasan

Azari requests

by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on

 

I have many Azari in my family. None of them want the *** these two are asking. Their reaction to these two went from disgust to laughter. The most pro Iran nationalist people I know are from Azarbayjan.

Remember from Babak Khorramdin to Kasravi they are opposite of these two. Therefore I would not blame Azari in general for this ***. These guys do not represent Azarbayjan. They represent a minority with a very big mouth.

These guys think of Azarbayjan as turk. So it is not a wonder they are angry. By their own admission they are not winning in Iran. This is making them angry and irrational. I say let them fume until they turn red in the face.


UrmuFarzin

Ulterior Motives?

by UrmuFarzin on

Mohammad Ala, language rights are guaranteed on the international level and should be guaranteed according to the IRI constitution, but are not. It is a right, in International Law. Just because you didn't have language instruction before doesn't mean that you have to perpetuate the status quo. That is what the majority of people in Azerbaijan want, supplemental education in their mother tongues. 

You have official languages in a country, countries like Afghanistan (which Iran should do as well) have several. Switzerland has 4 distinct official languages. Even if Farsi remained the official language and the lingua franca, there should be education in one's mother tongue. That is a right, not a priveledge. You shouldn't be arrested for reading Azerbaijani poetry in front of a group of people. I do not know one Azerbaijani in Iran who thinks that. 

Btw, if you can name one instance where I threatened VPK, I'll apologize to him. The worst thing I said is that you can't belittle my culture, my language, and my identity directly to my face.

The whole language as a uniting factor has been used since the 1920s to homogenize and assimilate people, and you've bought into the propaganda. One of the strongest indicators of identity is language, and by restricting it, you restrict identity and culture. People should be able to communicate throughout Iran, but people should have the ability to express themselves thoroughly in their mother tongues as well. As Ari said this contributes to the overall society, it doesn't hamper it. 

And the ulterior motives business is just another fear-mongering tactic used by ultranationalists for the same outcome. Ethnic minorities don't buy it anymore. If qashqaee don't want to educate themselves in their local language, that's their prerogative, but they should have the option.


Mohammad Ala

I am annoyed at Azeri's

by Mohammad Ala on

Racism and favoritism are two different things.  Most countries have them.

I am annoyed at people who resort to threats against people such as VPK.  It is not necessary to go there.  State your position and let others read what you have to say.

I speak several languages and dialects which are spoken inside of Iran.  In several cases, I do not have accent.  In some cases, I speak Luri among Azeri’s, for example Azeri’s do not know that I know what they are saying.  In several  recent Teraktor games, I was present.  I noticed a few separatist flying flags of Turkey and Russian taken Azerbaijan from Iran.  They used words that I would not use.

I am qualified to speak about Azeri’s because of my roots in Tabriz and my contribution to Tabriz and Urimeyeh both to their universities and to their ecology.   A few family members from old generation could not communicate with other Iranians because all they knew was Azeri.  One passed away at age of 91 who was respected in Tabriz.  This person could not speak Persian.

Persian is uniting factor among Iranians who speak different languages and dialects.  Many in Gilan cannot communicate with Lur’s to use another example.  In my family we have people who speak at least six local and international languages.  Our main language is Persian when we are inside of Iran.  We are Iranians who speak Persian but when we are at home we speak Luri and Azeri and several others speak Gilacki. 

There are ulterior motives and language is an excuse among Iranian Azeri’s.  As I mentioned in another thread, there are three other versions of Turki spoken inside of Iran.  For example, Ghashgahee people speak Turki.  I have not come across a Ghashgahee who does not speak Persian and who thinks or talks about independence.  We need to learn from them rather than open our mouths and spew discord.


Ari Siletz

Thanks UrmuFarzin

by Ari Siletz on

Article 15 of the IR Constitution has it right. Press, mass media and teaching of literature in regional languages is perfectly fine and in fact contributes to Iranian culture and the well being of our citizens as long as the rest of article 15 is also observed, namely:

"The official language and script of Iran, the
lingua franca of its people, is Persian. Official documents, correspondence,
and texts, as well as text-books, must be in this language and script ."

I view this crucial emphasis on Persian as the lingua franca as a historical accident and not a reflection of Persian superiority over other Iranian ethnicities. After all, we use English as a global standard for international communcation strictly as a practical matter. 

Do you know if Savalan also limits his demands to actually practicing what the IR Constitution preaches but has not followed? 


maziar 58

Tell you.........

by maziar 58 on

The Truth

what Azari wants is that "Tabriz" to be called the capial city of Iran!

So they can say................

man bacheh tabrizam!

sana ghorban velesh koon.

 

Maziar


UrmuFarzin

What Azeris want

by UrmuFarzin on

Hi Ari, 

Since you asked what the Azeris want, I will start with the basics. The pursuit of linguistic rights is outlined in the Constitution of the Islamic Republic of Iran in Article 15:

Article 15 states that the "Official language (of Iran)... is Persian ...[and]... the use of regional and tribal languages in the press and mass media, as well as for teaching of their literature in schools, is allowed in addition to Persian. ." Per Article 16, "Since the language of the Qur'an and Islamic texts ... is Arabic it must be taught ... in from elementary grades until the end of high school."

and in articles 19:

Article 19  [No Discrimination, No Privileges]

All people of Iran, whatever the ethnic group or tribe to which they belong, enjoy equal rights; color, race, language, and the like, do not bestow any privilege.

 

 and they want their rights according the UN Universal Delcaration on Linguistic Rights as well as well as the Declaration on the Rights of Persons Belonging to National or Ethnic, Religious, and Linguistic Minorities. (http://www2.ohchr.org/english/law/minorities.htm). According to Iran's constitution, this mandate does not violate the IRI's Constitution. 

So they want their kids to receive at least some degree of tutoring in their mother tongues. Different people want different things for their children. Some people are calling for the establishment of Azerbaijani schools alongside Persian schools (just as they do in the Republic of Azerbaijan), so parents can choose what kind of education they receive. This will probably would never stick. Others are calling for state-sponsored tutoring for at least a small period of time in local languages, this is more feasible. Yet others are calling for the ability to construct private institutions for local languges, not even at the public level.

The last case is the primary step. In Iran, Azerbaijani clubs aren't even allowed at the University level. In my past work, I had encountered several groups that formed to teach each other Azerbaijani, recite Azerbaijani poetry, etc. and they were broken up, sometimes arrested and the charge being "pan-turkism". Yes, that's a legitimate charge. I even encountered a case where someone hosted a party and an Azerbaijani poetry reading in their home and IRGC officials came and broke up the party violently (there were children there) and arrested the organizers. 

Anyone that calls for the proliferation of minority languages in Iran is arrested, tortured, given heavy sentences, and sometimes killed in prison. Because of this a ethno-nationalism is becoming quite popular in Iran. Basically Azerbaijanis don't want their language to suffer as Irish and Scottish Gaelic have in the UK. 


Ari Siletz

Savalan, not a rhetorical question

by Ari Siletz on

Here it is again:

What specifically are you claiming that the Azeris are asking for in terms of supplemental
education in Azeri language?


Savalan

Khamenei is not from Azerbaijan!

by Savalan on

Ali Khamenei was born on July 17th, 1939 in Mashhad.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-14362281 


Mash Ghasem

Thanks Savlan,for uniting all IC members against your obtuse

by Mash Ghasem on

ridiculouse ultra-nationalism.

Who says we can't unite around one issue. This blog certainly proves the opposite. Cheers 

Ethnic issues are very popular in Iran, but after all these years we as a nation have reached that point of political maturity to be able to distinguish between genuine, organic demands of national minorities within Iran, from "demands" raised by outsiders, bent on tearing up Iran into little pieces.

P.S. As someone else mentioned you map is a joke. So are most of your "arguments."


پندارنیک

"we want to express ourselves as a stifled minority in Iran"

by پندارنیک on

I as a Fars, whatever it means or used to mean, felt pretty stifled whenever I went to the Grand Bazaar in Tehran.........


Ari Siletz

Does anyone know?

by Ari Siletz on

What specifically are Azeris asking for in terms of supplemental education in Azeri language? Are we talking about language and literature electives, or  history courses with a different narrative from what is taught to students in the rest of the nation? Or...

Non-separatist Azeris with genuine concern for Azeri welfare as Iranians should have no problem explaining the details of what they're proposing.


UrmuFarzin

My threats?!

by UrmuFarzin on

:) Threat my foot. I just merely stated that you wouldn't dare make those assertions about Azerbaijanis to my face. You wouldn't dare discuss invading Azerbaijan directly to an Azerbaijani, or say something like Turks store their culture from Arabs and Persians. I will continue to monitor your posts throughout this website. I will continue to make sure your bigotry doesn't go unanswered, that I can promise you. 

Azerbaijanis have had enough of the ultra-nationalist rhetoric that you spew. Ethnicity is a seldom-discussed, yet very important topic when addressing Iran. I can guarantee that I and people from all different ethnicities throughout Iran are actively giving this issue its much-deserved time in the analytical discussions. You can continue to try to silence Azerbaijanis, but we will push even harder to make sure the world understands that we want to express ourselves as a stifled minority in Iran, one which does not even have supplemental education in their mother tongues, one which is consistently viewed as "tork-e-khar" and made the butt of jokes. 


Veiled Prophet of Khorasan

Hey dude

by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on

 

I live in America and do not fear your threats. Regarding bullying please read your own posts trying to shut me. My posts are legal opinions under American law. You are the one who calls me names not the other way.

When did I say Turks have no culture please show me. So far you called me a ton of names and I did not call you one name. I wanted to see you show your logic and I have seen your brand of it.


UrmuFarzin

Haha!

by UrmuFarzin on

VPK, you combat logic with idiocy. You're so big threatening Azeris from behind a computer screen aren't you. Maybe you can message me in private and you can threaten me and belittle my ethnicity and culture to my face? Ah no, you're going to reject it and something weak like I am not going to waste my time with you people like you. So go ahead waste your time on Iranian.com. Twist my words in a completely outlandish way to make me seem the racist. 

You're a silly little man with no backing. You represent an old-world pan-farsist style of thought. You say things like Turks have no culture and then you turn around and call me a racist. 

How long do you think you can continue to make these bigotted comments before someone figures you out and sues you for cyberbullying, lewd conduct, libel etc. in accordance with Canadian law?


BacheShirazi

That map

by BacheShirazi on

That map is extremely poorly made and is not accurate.The Arabic part is too big, the Kurdish part is too small.The Mazandarani section is too small, the turkmen and Khorasani Turkish section is laughably big.This isn't even all the problems with it. Also, it's called the Persian gulf. Why include the gulf of Oman but not our own?

 

Regardless, I'm not too knowledgeable on the current language rules in Iran. Are minority languages allowed to be taught in school? If they are, then good. If not, they should be.

 

However Persian should be compulsory to learn for every child in Iran. You need a language to unify everyone, and since Persian is already the most well known it might as well be that. End of the discussion. 


Veiled Prophet of Khorasan

Khamenei not Azari !

by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on

 

The leader of the IRI is not Azeri. His mother was. Barack Obama's mother is white, do people consider him white?

I see how you rank race over all and Khamenei not is pure enough for your taste. You dare call Iranians racist. Azari is not a race it means a person from Azarbayjan region. Khamenei is most surely from Azarbayjan.

Basically saying nobody non Turk deserve to be considered "Azari". Not even one whose mother is "Azari". With your thinking no wonder Turks mass murdered Armenians.

Thank you for making your real feelings clear to us all. It is very instructive. Race above all. Don't bother telling me about racism and ethnic *** now I really get your point.


UrmuFarzin

Khamanei

by UrmuFarzin on

The leader of the IRI is not Azeri. His mother was. Barack Obama's mother is white, do people consider him white? NO. Obama is regarded as the first black president. Khamanei is terrible at speaking Azeri and he has done nothing to promote the Azerbaijani quest for language and cultural rights. 

I feel sorry for you. Your hatred for Iran's ethnic minorities blinds you from what happens in those regions. Iran is not a monolithic state, it's not a melting pot if you will. Even in the U.S. (the biggest melting pot in the world), there are Indian reservations with their own Tribal Governments. The same is true for Canada. Even countries with some of the worst records of human rights abuses, China and Russia, provide some degree of autonomy to different ethnic groups. Iran's highly centralized structure only favors one language and one culture, stifling other identities. 

What's more is that some people, like VPK, don't even recognize Azerbaijani as a distinct culture. He jumps up and down and cries of pan-Turkism in Iran (which is pretty much defunct and only a fringe group adheres to the uniting of the Turkic world), but then again turns around and talks about Iran and Armenia taking over Azerbaijan. Isn't that pan-farsism? Is pan-farsism better than pan-turkism? Pan-farsists exist in greater droves than the idea of pan-turkism in Iran. The idea of pan-turkism is used as fearmongering out of utter hatred for Iran's Azeris, who recognize themselves as Turkic people. (If you speak Arabic, you're Arab. If you speak a Turkic language, you're a Turk)

So enough with the "he's a separatist pan-turk" crap. We've heard it all before. 


Veiled Prophet of Khorasan

RG regarding IRI

by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on

 

I oppose IRI in all forms not as an ethnic problem. The leader of the damn thing is an "Azari"! Forget Sunni and Shia I reject them both. What bugs me is the attempt to portray this as an ethnic problem which is not.

Iran is being choked by IRI no matter who you are. But some are trying to fish out of the muddy water. The enemies of Iran want to split us along ethnicity. In order to ruin Iran. And you guys go right for it. Just like going for an "Islamic Republic".

When are some people going to learn to work together? That parroting UN or other bull is not going to help Iran. Work together and get rid of IRI; divide and get totally scr***

 

 


Roozbeh_Gilani

VPK; Reject UN and "marxists" as much as you wish...

by Roozbeh_Gilani on

But take a trip to baloochestan, Kurdestan or Khuzestann to see what it means to be a Sunni and or arab, kurd, Balooch in shiat republic of velayate faghih. I have been to all of them my friend and I can tell you that ethnic/religious and sadly separatist sentiments are being fostered and encouraged by non other that the racist and religious policies of the Islamist regime.

Did you hear about demonstrations and killings in khuzestan only a couple of weeks ago? do you know what caused it? Do you know who is trying to utlimately benefit from it all?? 

"Personal business must yield to collective interest."


Veiled Prophet of Khorasan

RG UN report

by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on

 

The UN may do with their report as they want. UN is a biased organization that has 0 credibility. They took a dump on Serbia; no thank you. UN has no business telling us how to deal with our problems.

The so called ethnic issues are pet projects of a small big mouth group. Most people are not interested. So those who want to create ethnic strife get angry. Marxists are experts in it. They did enough damage already and we don't need more.

I am really sick of people who appoint themselves guardians of others. Who go around provoking disunity and trouble. When it does not work they might just torch a cinema and create an incident. These are "cause heads" who don't give a *** about people; just their cause. May the cause be damned.


Veiled Prophet of Khorasan

COP jan

by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on

 

The map is pure garbage and I reject it out of hand. Please do not give it attention. It is not disturbing because it has no power. More you pay attention to it the more it goes to head of Savalan. 

Do you think this guy will stop his bull. He is not an Iranian and will never be. Not because of race but because he hates Iran. Give him up like a bad tooth. Who needs a person as him. Just to create more dissent and problems.

If I were the admin I would ban all separatist articles. *** the separatists and their dellusional minds. I said before best cure for Republic of Azarbayjan is Armenia. Then split it with Iran and let those who don't want it move.

 


Roozbeh_Gilani

It is a real shame indeed...

by Roozbeh_Gilani on

That the content and context of the real, factual report from UN, on institutionalised Ethnic and religious discrimination in Islamic republic of Iran is not even discussed due to bloggers perceived separatist aspirations.......

"Personal business must yield to collective interest."


Cost-of-Progress

Stop this foolishness

by Cost-of-Progress on

Iran's ONLY chance for survival as a nation is to be united. The map you show is very disturbing.

STOP lobbying for cessation. It will not do you any good. You are Iranian and that is that. 

____________

IRAN FIRST

____________


anglophile

Lots of hot air and no substance

by anglophile on

Savalan, what is most annoying is the degree of non-scholarly opinion expressed in your writings (or should I say, your historic illiteracy). The very man whose picture is my avatar, Seyed Hassan Taghizadeh, is the most shining example of what a patriotic Azeri Persian, born and brought up in Tabriz can achieve. Your non-educated comments and posts are in the words of Rumi "mah feshaand noor o sag ou ou koand". The patriotic sons of Aran from Sattar Khan and Bagher Khan to Taghizadeh, Kasravi, and Shahryar and many more achieved for their homeland of Iran (Persia) that you and your barkings cannot put a dot on let alone tarnish. But ironically I agree with you that since the barbaric and the anti-Iranian (turkic) qajar tribe were booted out of their undeservedly siezed seat of power by the Great Reza Khan, Iran was ruled for over half a century by a genuinely patriotic and Persian dynasty that allowed all ethnicities and faiths to be rewarded by their merits and not their race or religion. Now please continue with your barkings.