Simorgh5555

Rea

Who would you side with in this hypothetically hypothetic situation, dear Simorgh? ;o) 

Take a wild guess! Lol 

Annunakis could also attack (all of us, mind you)

Who would you side with in this hypothetically hypothetic situation, dear Simorgh? ;o) 

Except for his being unpleasantly curious about other people' religion and allegiance, I'll side with Disenchanted here.

Disenchanted -Tragedies

Indeed, Palestine was a tragedy. I also do not deny for one second that the Palestinians were ethnically cleansed in many villages across historical Palestine.

However, there is a difference between ethnically cleansing an entire poulation based on a pre-conceived grand plan to breed a new race which is what Hitler and Milosevic and a group of people who have been persecuted for thousands of years and want to resettle in their historical homeland. Conflicts between Jews and Arabs started on a small scale before it escalated into a major war in the Middle East. The driving out of populations and separation of people was sadly inevitable when two different people embrace the same land as home.

This is why the Palestinian-Israeli claim is that both people's claims to the lands are legitimate. Bear in mind, however, Palestine also includes the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan included Palestine and until 20 years ago laid claim to the entire West Bank and Jerusalem. In actual fact the Palestinians (which includes Jordanians) have the largest chunk of real estate.

The Palestinians indeed experienced a tragedy whcih cannot be denied. However, the leadership of Palestinians have made terrible mistakes and chosing the wrong people to be friends with such as the IR and Islamists in Lebanon which sew the hatred of Christian Lebanese that culminated in the Sabra and Shatila massacre (which Sharon was also responsible for).

Finally, the aggressive Israeli tactics in the West Bank and Gaza;the destruction of homes in East Jersulamen does not justify the Lebanese and Syrians keeping three generations of Palestinians locked up in refugee camps.

My main 'beef' with Palestinian supporters is that this issue seems to eclipse all other human tragedies such as in Iran which for me takes priority.

See this blog which shows the videos of arrogant pro-Palestinian campaigners - one of them, Yvonee Ridley says ' The first Muslim Leader who recognised Iran, the Shah of Iran, is dead and burried. Ahmadinejad won the election'.

 //iranian.com/main/blog/simorgh5555/palestine-comes-first

Do you not see how resentful these people are? So long as you are the enemy of Israel then any tin pot dictator like Khamenei is OK. For the sake of friggin Palestine.............

Simorgh- e Gerami

Here's a part of "disenchanted" comment from below:

I noticed that I brought up the notion of allegiance in a blog written by AO. Now I see an echo of that in Simorg blog!! Hum...Talking about multi id users! Anyone with same impression out there?! 

He was also repeating the same thing on another thread, but that comment was deleted.  He was actually claiming that you, me and "Oon Yaroo" are the same people!  BTW, my apologies to Oon Yaroo for not mentioning him in the lineup earlier!  

:-) 

AO Jan

I am honoured to be mistaken for you and I am quite happy to take the bullet for patriots such as your good self. 

I am flattered to be identified as the enemy of the IR but how do you know this? Just curious. 

The purpose of this blog was to provoke an honest debate and with all the talk of 'war' would Iranian Muslims consider the bombing of Mecca and Medina as legitimate targets in the event (however unlikely, nigh impossible) if SA were to bomb Iranian cities. 

Disenchanted obviously didn't get it (deliberately).  

I think Mehrdad gave the most honest answer because he did not hesitate to say that he would not only die fighting for his country but would not be burried facing Mecca.  

It is interesting to see ….

How many Iranian Muslims are on this site, since the blog/question is pointed at them yet many responses?

  As for me, I am not a Muslim or believe in any other [brainwashing] religion only bound by my conscience.   In the theoretical/hypostatical case of any nation attacking my mother-land, be it a backward fascist-like-practicing SA or a democratic yet war-loving USA, I would hope to have the courage and blessing from my wife to go and defend my mother-land only to the point of defense and no offence.  

And regardless of a war or not, my body will not be turned to Mecca or any other cities once I leave this world as clear instructions dictate it to be used for organ donation and rest for research if it is suited for. 

'Hambastegi' is the main key to victory 

Mehrdad

Hah!

To that end, from our Sunni arab brothers perspective, bombing of let's say cities like Mashhad and Qom and killing all it's inhabitants could indeed provide the bomber pilot with a pass to islamic heaven and free eternal access to the 72 short, pale, fat, blonde "virgins"

Well that is great news! Given the competence of Saudi pilots we might as well move all valuable to Qum. Did they ever hit their intended target?  

Good blog Simorgh!

I think  a few commenters failed to grasp your use of symbolism. Let me answer your question slightly differently; on  purely religious grounds, sadly,  we, the shia Iranians are considered by sunnis who form the vast majority of Arabs and Muslims (that includes vast majority of Palistinians) to be worse than kaffirs, deserving our heads chopped off in front of a muslim flag, and the whole event posted on internet.  To that end, from our Sunni arab brothers perspective, bombing of let's say cities like Mashhad and Qom and killing all it's inhabitants could indeed provide the bomber pilot with a pass to islamic heaven and free eternal access to the 72 short, pale, fat, blonde "virgins"

"Personal business must yield to collective interest."

Simorgh

Here I just published this blog. Please do me a favor and read it including my first comment. What do you think and is it reasonable in your opinion. Same to all the other readers:

//iranian.com/main/blog/veiled-prophet-kh...

Simorgh my fiend, Just dropped by

to say congratulations!  You are now in the company of a few other good men / women who have been "identified" by the IR supporting crowd--with a great deal of "certainty" I may add-- as being me!  The others include such excellent, knowledgeable and intelligent contributors such as AMIR1973, OnlyIran, Oktaby and Fesenjon.  So, you are in extremely good company.  I dare say that I have got to be the person whom the IR crowd most often accuse other users of being.  Kind of makes me proud.  I must be getting under their skins THAT badly!  

You should also take pride in knowing that you have won the argument.  Because they start to personally attack you and accuse you of using multiple IDs when they realize that they have lost the debate. So, congratulations on that end as well! 

PS- I recall from your previous writings that you are in the UK, right?  That actually makes this whole thing even funnier since I'm in the U.S.!  But this is not the first time that I have been accused of being another user who is in a different time zone!  Although, didn't scientist recently claim that time travel / multiple dimensions is a possibility?  Perhaps I have a machine in my basement which I can use to  teleport myself from the U.S. to the UK on multiple occasions during a day to leave comments under different usernames on IC! :-)) 

Simorgh

Now see this is what happens when people start talking religion! 

My two cents:

• Most Iranians specially younger ones are not really interested in Palestine. They are busy trying to make future for themselves against Hizobllahi.
• Many American politicians owe allegiance to other than its people. Mostly to their donors. Some advisers like Brzezinski where also more interested in Poland. America needs is finance reform which will never happen.
• Rish o Pashm are popular among all ultra religious. Not sure why however pretty much all the ultra(put religions here) have a hatred of shaving. 

My one biggest issues is to oppose any attacks on groups like Jews. Iranian Jews are a part of Iran for over 2500 years. Never betrayed Iran; never sided with the enemy. In the war when most Arabs including Palestinians sided with Saddam. Israel was helping Iran. In words Israel has been very different than in actions. I really do see an alliance between the two nations once the Hizbollahi are out of power. It is the only logical route for survival and prosperity of both nations.

Iranian Jews....

So, if you're not a Zionist agent, you're an Iranian jew who has allegiances to israel, says the new Capt-Ahab!

Where do you comeup with this stuff, Dis, I say Disenchanted?

I happen to believe all religions are equally useless, so put a sock in it already. Granted this is a new twist in the old tired everybody-is-a-Zinosit line, but you folks who pledge allegiance to the reesh-o pashm should come up with new lines.  This is still boring and not original as scores of the loyal sheep have used it before you.

____________

IRAN FIRST

____________

Simorg, lets pause a bit and see what I actually said!

       See, you are reading what you want not what I wrote and drawing conclusions from premises that do not support them.

      ---I said Iran does not attack Mecca, Not Saudi! These are different. Iran certainly would attack Saudi if its interests dictate. NOT Mecca though, but the oil fields! Uha... Was it really hard to figure that one out?! I mean were you really puzzled that what would happen in a scenario that Iran and Saudi go to war?!

        --- Palestinian leadership is NOT my beloved. Even I don't have any special love for Palestinians themselves. I just despise the reckless and ruthless conduct of Israeli Army and government. That despicable sense of entitlement they have. The arrogance the hubris and kill first and asks question later Modus Operandi!

         --- I think Saudi government is the central bank of most of the evil in the Middle east and north Africa. They are bank rolling the religious fanatics and dictators all over the Arab and Islamic world. They are a sell out as well. How about that?! Now if that comes as a surprise to you it again as indication of your being clueness of how these things works. You are certainly out of touch with majority of Iranian. That tells me ou belong to a minority group, religious or otherwise!  

           Now how about you answering my question(s). I have a thesis that makes lots of sense. It says majority of Iranians oppose Israeli occupation of Palestinian lands like many other nations. Some of Iranians as of late have become tired of IRI's engagement in those matters and advocate a neutral or indifferent position. But hardly ever an Iranian Muslim opts to support the inhumane policies of Israeli Gov. The thesis says the supporters of Israel on Iranian.com most likely have Jewish heritage.  So which of those categories you fall into?

   You see my position is rational as advertised. We most likely share lots of opinion. The major disagreement seems to be on Israel. But clearly my position in that regard is more rational, humane and universally supported. No one with a clear conscience can support Israeli actions.

     I believe a democratic, secular government in Iran still would advocate boycott of Israel. Now that must be bad news in Tel aviv!

      By the way I commend you on your awaken conscience for referring to Palestine plight as "the Palestinian tragedy"! Kudos....

Disenchanted

...and NO Iran will not attack Mecca! To question that possibility is so naive that I have a hard time even responding to it!

Hence why the question is HYPOTHETICAL. If you are such a rationalist then you would divorce your emotions and your Islamic sentiments from the nlog.

Also read the question properly. I asked if Saudi were to attack Iran (and believe me they would if the opportunity was ripe) would YOU as a Muslim Iranian support a retaliation on cities such as Medina and Mecca.

You are right i one thing IR will never attack Saudi- they will continue to take abuse from as its Muslim Arab raiders without even batting an eye lid in the same way as the Adab League, including your beloved Palestinian leadership; and sorry to say even the voice of the Palestinian on the street stood shoulder to shoulder with Saddam Hussein. But carry on with your I hate Israel mantra whike your silence in criticising the Saudi regime speaks volumes about your 'religiously neutral' stance.

As for foreign affairs and international relations not being my Forte at least I have educated myself on Sudan whch you have confessed knowing almost nothing about despite the fact that the country has seen some of the greatest ethnic cleansing and genocide the world has ever witnessed and which dwarfs the Palestinian tragedy.

Your knowledge of internatiinal relatiions, indeed the only country which you have confessed being qualified to speak about is Palestine, a small strip of land on the coast of the Mediterranean. All the whike the world rotates round the sun and Muslims torture Muslims and non-Muslims without provoking the least reaction from you.

Simorg tell me more about your background...

       Perhaps politics and international affair is not your forte!

       I am a rationalist for lack of a better word. That should tell you where I stand on religions (check my blogs if you have nothing better to do!).

         ...and NO Iran will not attack Mecca! To question that possibility is so naive that I have a hard time even responding to it! One does not have to be a Muslim or Iranian or Arab to figure that out. I guess I have to tell you why. Here is Poli Sci 101. Iran would not attack Mecca! There are many reasons the least of which is their own belief and religious sensitivity. It would be self defeating.

        Need more reason? Consider that a strategic soicide as all the Arabs and Muslim countires not only immediately condemn Iran they most likely attack Iran. Hint: Pakistani nuts may unleash their nukes on us!

       I hope you are by now convinced how absurd was your thesis.

        As for the how the Iranian and Muslim identity coexists that would be another blog.  Since you kept addressing me as a Muslim and asked me my opinion on matters religious, I take it you don't consider yourself a Muslim. So that makes you ...what? If I may... 

Disenchanted

Will you stop deviating from.the subject of the blog and answer the question directly. As a Muslim do you believe that it would be justified for Iran to attack SA cities such as Mecca and Medina if the latter does likewise?
As you say this is an unlikely hypothetical scenario but it would be intrresting to know how you would feel about it. Do you think you can continue pray towards Mecca in a time of hostilities? The irony is lost on you:They came, they conquered you, forced you to assimilate to their culture either through coercion or duress and you still get on your hands and knees to your enemy.
No Iranian Jew calls himself Mohammed and indeed many of thrm have pure Iranian names and not Hebrew ones. That is the difference between the treacherous and dedicated Muslim Iranian and a Jew from Iran. Loyalty to Iran just does not figure into your equation and ni matter how you try to reconcile your Iranian national.identity with your Muslim one they are just complete opposites.

Now, why do you love Islam more than Iran? That's worth 12 blogs

I guess!

In a perfect world one would love Iran and Israel both..

      But this is not a perfect world and Israel is anything but!

      That's when the choice comes in and I think some Iranian Jews are conflicted at best....

       Again, that calls for another blog...

Iranian Jews love Iran and Israel! It's only the IRR regimies

and their free loader chello-kabab with extra gojeh supporters who love Islam, Palestine, Hezbollah, and everything Islamic but Iran!

On the notion of allegiance!

       We know for a fact that some American Jews have their allegiance with Israel prior to US. The question is where do Iranian Jews allegiance lies? Iran or Israel?

      I think that is a very legitimate question.

       I sense lots of bloggers who defend Israel here most likely are Iranian Jews. Granted some Iranians are tired of Palestine-Israel issue (for wrong reasons) but at best they remain neutral or indifferent as opposed to defending Israel. That makes for another blog.

I noticed that I brought up the notion of allegiance in a blog written by AO. Now I see an echo of that in Simorg blog!! Hum...Talking about multi id users! Anyone with same impression out there?!

As a 75 year-old Iranian woman, I wake up @5am every day,...

run for 5 miles, take a shower, eat some kalleh pacheh, take my compus out, find directions toward Mecca, and say a few prayers starting with La'Natollah Al Mohammad Va Al'e Mohammad and ending with a massive belch towards Medina!

Mecca

has nothing to do with any of this. I don't know why it got in the deal. Other than people making jokes. It is a city folks not a person.

fanoos, those morons in Iran ONLY chant

and they get punished for it and U.S knows that.

SA, on the other hand, says nothing but it shows it in action and U.S knows that too... Still SA gets all sort of free rides  !!  

But your point is well taken ... that shows what an asshole IRI is and I sure hope  that one day we'll get rid of IRI once and for ever ... cause honestly with friends like IRI who needs enemy !! 

Mecca has been there thousands of years

It has nothing to do with the Saudi ruling family, a corrupt, dictatorial regime which propagates Salafism and Wahabism, the source of much of the Middle East terrorism by supposedly Muslims.

It is like saying because I am opposed to monarchy, I must not like Persepolis. I love Persepolis, because it is part of my heritage as Iranian. Or that I must hate my religion because of the crimes that the clerics and their supporters have committed in Islam's name. Not at all. Same with Mecca.

Mammad

The real difference

is that the Saudi government takes orders from USA but IRI is a pain. Besides the Saudi people are far more radical than their government. The reverse is true in Iran. USA would be stupid to remove the Sauid government.

Just as it was stupid to remvoe the Shah. However if they could replace Khamenei with a Shah that would be good for them. I just do not see how they would do it given the way things are.

The difference is that SA's government did not

The difference is that SA's government did not chant "death to America" for 32 years but the IRR government did!

How about this Dear Simorge ?

19 Saudi's crashed planes in USA and it was not an Act Of War against SA. one Iranian-American plots and that is an ACT of War !!

What surprises me is that

What surprises me is that despite the sabre rattling by the Saudis who, as the Wikileak memos reveal, have privately urged the US "to cut off the head of the snake" and only yesterday threatened that Iran "will pay a heavy price" for the alleged assassination attempt of its ambassador, I have not seen the usual pro-IR folks and anti-Israeli brigade of I.com condemn the Arab kingdom. Where are the personak attacks against King Fahad in the same way Netanyahu is regulalrly villified? Where is the condemnation of the Saudi kingdom for being fascists? None. Again, so long as its Jews who are not making threats, invading Iran's territory, de-legitimizing the Persian Gulf then its acxeptable. And don't tell me the assassination plot was hatched by Jews because the Saudis have hated the IR for years.

It's not a religious war

Whether Saudi Arabia and Iran go to war has nothing to do with religion.

What Iran would probably do is come up with a way to make it look like the Saudis bombed Mecca themselves in order to make everyone think that Iran bombed Mecca.

That's how dirty, religious people play, when they are pushed to the brink, or see an opportunity.

To read more bahmani posts visit: //brucebahmani.blogspot.com/

Responses

• Simorgh: As you may have guessed I was a bit tounge in cheek. I would of course prefer that we first ditch the mollas. Then recover territory.
• Bahram: I would pass the bit about "towers of silence". Most of the Zoroastrian nonsense was added in the Sassanid period. In fact it became a travesty of what is was to be. More like today's Shia Islam in some way which is based on that. In fact mollahs are what the greedy mobeds turned into. As long as there are dumb people to exploit and superstition: go for it! Just that Shia is all the bad parts of Sassanid corruption of Zoroastrianism minus any of the good parts. A real shame.