Harassed and punished for non-Baha'i marriage

Thank you, Eric...

by Zulfiqar110 on Mon Aug 03, 2009 01:18 AM PDT

And God bless you.

Please frequent these hallowed halls more often and share your input and insights more widely with the community here. These Baha'i Basijis have created an Orwellian atmosphere around here whereby anyone who criticizes them is accused of being either a supporter of the Islamist regime in Iran or being yours truly under another identity when they can't accuse them of being in the pay of the mullahs. The situation has gotten to a point where they have even created a fake identity pretending to be an Iranian Muslim sympathetic to the regime in Iran and anti-Baha'i when it appears this person in real life is actually a Baha'i.

Since you are a well known American ex-Bahai, especially well known from your days on Talisman@Indiana.Edu, where we first made each other's acquintance, your input on these issues will be extremely valuable to the generality of non-Bahai Iranians around here.

 Salutations, old friend. Good to see you here.

bahai - cultural imperialism

by epierce on Sun Aug 02, 2009 10:20 AM PDT

I'm an ex-bahai whose wife was never a bahai. When we got married, I was a member of bahai. I'm american, and my parents are not bahais, so I had no problem with getting "consent" to marry.

We had some good bahai friends, but there were some instances where bahais insulted my wife for not converting to bahai.

Sima's story about bahai prejudice is similar to other such stories I've heard. It is sad, but does not surprise me. I was at a bahai conference about 10 years ago, and I saw a group of persian bahai teenagers get up and scream at their parents for not protesting the racism/classism of the grandparents who had immigrated to the usa. In some cases where persian bahai parents give permission for their adult children to marry non-persian bahais of "lower" class status, the non-persian spouse is later subject to demeaning treatment, called "filthy", becomes a scapegoat for the family's problems, etc.

Some of these incidents are extreme cases, and are not completely typical, but the troubling thing is that most bahai communities/assemblies do NOTHING about the injustices involved.

And this of course is the important thing about Sina's story: the bahai administration was far more focused on its own internal enforcement of conformism, rules and protection of its psychosocial "comfort zone", than on the injustice perpetrated by a prejudiced/dysfunctional parent.

As others have commented, the conformism, group-think and holtility to honest self-examination, criticism or dissent that jump out in Sina's story are a pattern that exists all across bahai culture.

Unfortunately bahais appear to have allowed the same kind of rigidly orthodox memes that they were victim of in iran to "infect" bahai culture. weird but true. "american bahai" identity after the iranian revolution became much less utopian/progressive/liberal, and instead was increasingly influenced by the persecution stories of iranian bahai refugees. apparently the persecution hate was turned inward, and then combined with the typical insularized/cult attitudes of a minority religion to create a toxic culture.

it is not unusual to find bahai communities/assemblies that are extremely hostile to any form of criticism, divergent "outside" opinion, nonconformism, or dissent.

bahai is a religion that does not live up to its utopian marketing, at least not at an "authentic" level.

there are lots of good bahais, but as a group they not infrequently do bad things. I've known a lot of bahais over 25 years that tried to reform bahai, but almost all of them were attacked, and either marginalized, or driven completely out.

in general, bahais do not worship transcendence, thjey worship "system" and bureaucracy and "tribe" (which they wish to be "empire").

bahai is not a universalist religion in practice, only in "mere words".

Zulf, inasmuch as you hate basijis you are acting like one.

by Waters on Mon Jul 13, 2009 06:18 PM PDT

Common sense should tell you that if someone is not out there to take your life or is not mortally after you then they are not your enemy. You need to know where to draw the line. Any thing else is just the matter of perception and does not have to be fatal.

 Basijies are out there in case you disagree with them and they will come after your neck with the same zulfaghar you claim to be. Try showing your face back in Iran and get a real Basiji experience such that you wont be able to retell.

If you dont know how to tell the enemy from those whom you have ideological differences with then you are in for subjugation for a life time and you will be used by those who are much craftier than you, simple minded Zulf .

You are after Bahais and have been on their face with all ugliness possible and they only try to reason with you even though it maybe to no avail. I said maybe!

The wise has a prayer list and you have a marg bar list, is this the destiny you will fulfill?

Let those who know peace weather moslem bahai or atheist use their heart and mind to bring the sun back from behind the cloud and end the shadow over the land of Iran for good.

Repeat Salaam until you are overcome by it. 

 

Fahashi of Bahai Basiji Farshadjon Khatt-i-UHJ

by Zulfiqar110 on Sun Jul 12, 2009 06:10 PM PDT

Bozghale babeteh o jadd o abadet, Basiji-i-Bahai!

There is nothing you Fascists can do to me, so you know what you can do with your threats. You think you have a chomaq. I weild a bigger one and am willing and able to use it on the likes of Islamic and Baha'i Basijis alike.

 MARG BAR BASIJI, Baha'i  va Islami!

To Zulfiqar

by farshadjon on Sun Jul 12, 2009 12:01 PM PDT

Martikeye Bozghale,

Basiji jad o abadete!

Az in be bad befahm ba ki dari harf mizani!

Do not listen to those who turn your feelings back on you.

by sophia on Sat Jul 11, 2009 11:59 PM PDT

Dear Sinakhanum, this is a very sad situation, and must have been very hard for you. Though I am sure that matters of the heart being intruded upon by religious customs, or the wishes of families, are age-old problems that are felt across many cultures (the Bollywood film industry would probably be a fraction of the its current size without such stories!), your pain at the feeling of intrusion upon your spiritual union with this man, and your pain at the behavior exhibited towards you (and your husband) cannot be rationalized, or turned against you.   Tahirih's comment :   "I have tried to find a loving flexible statement in your blog and to be honest with you there is none. Dear I have to say that I do not sense any love coming from you towards your husband either. It must be hard loving someone and hating the core of their being!"   is a classic example of the kind of psycho-spiritual manipulation often employed by Baha'i fundamentalists to make a genuine situation of conflict, in which emotionally well-balanced individuals express normal and justifiable human (and indeed, genuinely spiritual) emotions (and which they will tell you is best solved by "loving consultation") into a problem on the part of the one expressing it (ie you). If this had happened to me,  I would be FURIOUS, and I'm sure most women would feel exactly the same way. Having a whole social group of your husband's friends, family (and religious organization!) alienate you is a hurt that can linger long and deep, and can feel like a real slight upon your own feelings of love . And just who on earth is Tahirih to judge the level of "Love" shown by you towards your husband? I've no doubt I may be called one of of several things for expressing this:   1) spiritually immature   2) not currently capable of understanding the complexities/subtleties of "loving consultation" and/or "divinely inspired guidance" and therefore;   3) full of hate, or anger, or incapable of seeing the "wisdom" of the "truth" behind the situation you found yourself in.       Such subtle aspects of ideological and psychological manipulation are common tactics (ie to drive a wedge between parties by making one or both feel they are in the wrong according to a doctrinal structure) used when interested parties don't get their way. What is so troubling is that a belief system that claims to exemplify tolerance, love, peace and freedom of choice (ie the Baha'i Faith) demonstrates that in actuality, its governing bodies and certain adherents allow their doctrines to intrude upon these matters in the way they have.    As you say, "And now he feels that he's left with nothing. For me, I am helping him free himself from all religious bonds so he can concentrate more on living a happy life full of service to humanity, not the rules of religion."   I sincerely hope that you and your husband's spirits, which you already know are utterly unbound by the institutional narrow-mindedness you have encountered, can achieve this goal. As I'm sure you are aware, the truth of the Heart and its most inner secrets, transcends all others, and your wishes to live a happy life, and serve as you will need take only the form you wish. 

This woman's story is credible. The Baha'i Basijis here are not!

by Zulfiqar110 on Sat Jul 11, 2009 09:26 PM PDT

Non-Baha'is take anything these three Baha'i Basijis say here with grains of salt. Similar stories like Sima Khanoom's have been circulating for years, and the religious bigotry of many fanatical Haifan Baha'is towards people of other religions (esp. Muslims) is recorded and attested by themselves, such as in the letter below.

KHAMENEI, BAYT'UL 'ADL! ESTIBDAD-I-ABU JAHL! Allahu Akbar, Allahu Abha'! MARG BAR DIKTATOR DAR IRAN VA HEEFA!

 

NATIONAL SPIRITUAL ASSEMBLY OF THE BAHA'IS OF AUSTRALIA INCORPORATED

In reply please quote ref no:
OPM/CD

3 April 2002

Mr Hamid Taheri
19 Dunbar Rd
CLAREMONT WA  6010

[(08) 938-45246]

Dear Baha'i Friend,

The National Spiritual Assembly understands that you are involved in a weekly Iranian television programme in Perth, sponsored by an Iranian Muslim.

As you would undoubtedly be aware the House of Justice calls for
Baha'is to exercise great caution in their relations with the Iranian
community. The National Assembly has determined that your involvement in this programme is not wise. In the best interests of the Faith you should immediately cease your participation in this television programme.

Due to the need to protect the Faith in Australia the National
Assembly feels it necessary to warn you that failure to comply with
this instruction will result in the removal of your administrative
rights. The National Assembly looks forward to receiving confirmation that you have discontinued this activity.

We take this opportunity to recommend that you re-familiarize yourself with the guidance of the Universal House of Justice in its letter  dated June 18, 1999. A copy of this letter is enclosed.

With loving Baha'i greetings,

NATIONAL SPIRITUAL ASSEMBLY
OF THE BAHA'IS OF AUSTRALIA INC.

Stephen Hall
Secretary

Sincerely!!! an ex-Bahai testimony to what?? what testimony?

by Waters on Sat Jul 11, 2009 08:36 PM PDT

I am sorry your story does not hold any water and is only a testimony to the fact that your husband should have never married you if your story is indeed true. There is a reason the consent of the parents is required. Can you tell us why? 

A testimony should be verifiable.

Definitions of testimony on the Web:

• a solemn statement made under oath
• an assertion offering firsthand authentication of a fact; "according to his own testimony he can't do it"
• something that serves as evidence; "his effort was testimony to his devotion"
  wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

 

 

Sina khanum:

by Tahirih on Sat Jul 11, 2009 04:00 PM PDT

I married my Bahai husband a long time ago , I was also just like you a Muslim, and just like in your case his family were not jumping in joy  at that time( when he told them that he wanted to marry me) . But as soon as they saw me and got to know me it was another story. I am not blaming you but it sounds like  that you started the whole relationship on the wrong foot! for example this statement of yours:I told him that if the Bahai events infringed on my family life, that I would not want it in my home.

I have tried to find a loving flexible statement in your blog and to be honest with you there is none. Dear I have to say that I do not sense any love coming from you towards your husband either. It must be hard loving someone and hating the core of their being!

And it is sad that you have to write in anti Bahai sites ( like the one you posted your letter) when your husband is still a bahai.

Also you should not hold one person's action against Bahai faith. Bahaullah has revealed in the Tablet of Bisharat that the second glad tidings to humankind is ;

 O people! Consort with the followers of all religions in a spirit of friendliness and fellowship.

So if you did not feel love and fellowship it is not the shortcoming of Bahaullah's teachings but us humans. Becoming a perfect bahai is a process and we all strive towards it.

Good luck to you and best wishes for your union,

Tahirih

Forget about past, think about future!

by farshadjon on Sat Jul 11, 2009 09:10 AM PDT

Dear Sinakhanum,

I read over your blog and I must say that I am sorry to hear that. I don’t know whether it is a complete truth or what is the story from your husband’s side about this situation. They may have their own story about this matter.

Having said the above, here is my opinion about your problem:

1)      The difference in religious belief is a great matter that need time to be managed. You and your husband came from totally different background. It will take some time to adopt the new situation both for you and your husband’s family (your husband as well).

 

2)      As I said before, I feel sorry to hear that you don’t have a good experience engaging with Baha’is.  I never judge on other people from my own experiences and expand that to the entire community.

 “The extremism, prejudice, mind-control and censorship and inappropriate level of interference by the assemblies is truly unbelievable”

I don’t agree entirely with the above statement. These adjectives can be given to any group, religion, or parties based on different taste and experience. Like other religions, we have some good practicing Baha’is, which practice the Baha’i faith correctly and some that they just named as a Baha’i or coming from a Baha’i family. To say that all Baha’is are extremist or controlling is not fair.  

Yes, Baha’is are human being and like everyone else can make mistakes but the unfortunate fact is that any error from Baha’i individuals always will be expanded to entire Baha’i community, and this is a normal stereotype these days.

 As for your problem with Baha’i community, I just want to clarify a point. Every religion has its own teachings and practices:

In Islam you can do “sighe”, which is possible with going to a clergy to get a writing and you will be OK to have a relationship with other women in a legal manner. However, to most of people this process is meaningless and even funny but that is the way it works. One can’t ridicule the rules of other religion just because they don’t like it.

  

In Baha’i faith, the ritual custom is that whenever two parties are coming from different religious background, the Baha’i ceremony must take place first before the rituals of other party. The other point is that there must be consent of all parents for the marriage. I don’t believe that Spiritual Assembly will have that much power to enforce somebody to do this routine but here what you described in your writing. I have many Baha’i friends who married to other persons from different religious background and they have never had any problem. Their partner may not be involve that much in Baha’i administration but they are free to do what they think is the best for their family. 

 I think that route cause of your problem was that your husband’s father was not happy with this marriage and he may have all sorts of explanations about that. At the end, I am glad to hear that you and your husband’s family reconciled again. This has been a difficult process for you and for them as well.  

I have two recommendations: 

1)    I know that you have been through a lot but please don’t expand this case to entire Baha’i community from your personal experience. Baha’is are not angles, they make mistake, and we all have to learn from our mistakes.  

2)    I don’t think that it is a good idea for you and your husband to be distanced from Baha’i community and activities. I know that you didn't have a good experience at the beginning but you can work out everything with your family and the Baha’i community. That is what I am sure of.

Finally, I personally congratulate to you and your husband for the wedding. I hope that you guys have a wonderful life together, full of happiness and heath, and lots of children.Thank you for sharing your story with us. Forget about past, think about future!

Ex-Baha'i Testimony

by SinaKhanum on Sat Jul 11, 2009 02:31 AM PDT

//www.bahai-faith.com/ex-Bahai-5.html