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Rosie jan

ahmadinejad belongs to a particularly crazy 'cult' within shiism that sees the imminence of the return of the 'mahdi'. he is messianic in a way. his obsession with jerusalem too is basically the same mentality as zionism. holy land and all that. but he does not define iran's foreign policy, as you know. and his cult does not involve the building up of any caliphate. the caliphate would follow the return of the mahdi, if i am not mistaken. perhaps someone will correct me.

in many ways he is like bush, and in fact, he was the answer to bush once khatami was rejected as a part of the axis of evil. khatami did not deliver, and people voted against rafsanjani for his widely known corruption rather than voting for ahmadinejad who was an unknown.

the reference to the shia crescent came from king abdallah of jordan. he is an idiot and he has shut it since then. iraq has a majority shia population. they should be in charge or at least have a say together with the other groups. syrian shias are a small minority, and it is the secular baath party that is fully and ruthlessly in control. lebanon's shia too are a minority (around 30%), and hasan nasrallah is quite pragmatic and is way ahead of his iranian friends. he has a strong alliance with some christian factions (not all of them of course) and has been working harder than the others in trying to change the lebanese constitution to a non-sectarian one. he uses iran and syria in the same way that they use him. and he is by far the most popular arab leader today across various muslim sects.

btw, i have known many non-zionist jews. it is quite common in europe :)

NP: May you always find

NP:

May you always find pride in your dogmatic/idealist world view. As I said before, I wish you triumph in your anti-imperiliast endeavors.

I did engage in a childish hypocritical tit or tat and it was kind of silly, after all, I'm Persian...hahaha

What do you think of Hamas's new absurd attack?

//www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1059156.html

Dear Rosie: My original

Dear Rosie: My original title was "Islamist's Imperialism Envy and I did mention the left. I did not mention her name, period.

ABC, NP...

ABC, did you MENTION her? Look at the TITLE of your post...

case closed.

NP, well if you say the caliphate idea died with

Khomeini I will accept it unless argued otherwise. We can see that Rafsanjani was an economic pragmatist, that the Reformists the last thing they wanted was a caliphate, and that Ahmadinejad is basicall a populist, hence his close ties to Chavez, etc. However his fervent and reactionar religious beliefs render him both complex and...suspect. So I think maybe I hit on something, because probably some Iranians here believe he is trying to revive that caliphate idea, although w/secular leftist allies as well..

This idea is also helped along by the references in the American press since Iraq and Lebanan to a "Shia crescent" stretching from Iran through Iraq and Syria (??!) to Lebanon...

I agree with you, that Caliphate idea never had a snowball's chance in hell which only goes to show you how out of touch Khomeini & Co. really were. In fact if you want to see the strongest declaration of it you can check out the feed I posted yesterday on "Israeli Liberal Perspective, from Haaretz, after going painstakingly through analysis of the Saudi proposal, the conclusion about the Arab world, Iran and the settlers really says it all.

Well anyway I'm glad you continue the discussion, it does help a lot. The fact of the matter is that if the other people involved don't have the patience or stamina or interest in doing it knowing this is my feed and I'm following and that, as the only regularly blogging non-Zionist Jew on these threads, I have, for better or for worse, a pivotal role in these issues, if nothing else at least as a talking sponge, they are not going to sway me of much. I hope they stay. The issues are complex. And I do talk a lot...

abc jan

well i am not used to being called an academic thug by someone who has no animosity toward me, but i guess i should be happy with your sincerity there. and yes, i am a lefty, and proudly too, although, i am not sure what YOU mean by that term.

don't get me wrong. i am not picking a fight with you. i was having a very calm and focused discussion with annonymx there as far as i knew until someone got going with the vitriolic name calling.

bikhial abc. i want to spend my time bouncing off ideas here. that is what i am about. you judge as u like my friend.

I am just interested in following the discussion, which

implicitly addresses all the points I raised in my post below and which I as a participant/observer have come to believe are some of the most essential ones in terms of how Iranians view and participate in the issue. I would wish on this feed at least (it was my feed) that the discussion could be normal, and I mean normal not like how it gets here on these threads too often, I mean normal like how my teachers brought me up to discuss issues.

I have noticed that in general the discussions under the articles on these issues, while less commented than the blogs, tend to also be more nuanced and less volatile. It is partly because the blogging community is in a way (or has come to perceive itself in a way) as a self-contained entity with all kinds of interpesonal issues and labels (similar to a pressure cooker), often forgetting the many thousands of people who read this site worldwide, Iranian and non-Iranian. This one we're on right now happens to be interesting because it is a newsfeed, and newsfeeds rarely reach this level of comment, and I would like the experiment to be a successful one.

I am not an Iranian and so I have more questions than answers about these issues and all I can tell you from my standpoint is that so far everyone has brought up interesting points with some validity to them and I would like to learn more. I do have my opinions but in general they are more flexivle than most people's here due to my being non-IranianI  I don't see where anyone's age has anything to do with anything and noone here strikes me as particularly unreasonable on this thread.  Actually I don't even know anyone's age here but I can say that on one hand as we age the world is also changing so well-informed younger people sometimes have more relevant perspectives on some things than older people (like me), and also that while it is common that younger people are more "progressive" and "idelistic", and become more "conservative" "realistic",whatever these terms mean, with age, it is by no means a rule. One thing I know for sure, to just use that old chestnut (you are young...) to clinch the argument clinches nothing, it just makes the discussion either go poof or get nasty. Solves absolutely nothing.

There are generalizations by nationality, religion, sex, class, race, and age...they are all just generalizations. Do oou know I had to spend a whole day convincing someone I wasn't a Zionist just because I'm Jewish? Or that someone insisted (and proved to their satisfaction)  that Kaveh and Bijan and Mehdi Mazloom are from Persian families, just because they have to greater or lesser degrees Zionist beliefs, so like Zion they must not be Persin. All kinds of wierdnesses come from these generalizations. Generalizing by generation is no different. IMHO.

In general, the most dangerous thing for these discussions is self-righteousness and it must be avoided at all costs.

THE ONLY PERSON HERE WHO IS ALLOWED TO BE SELF-RIGHTEOUS IS ME, GODDAMIT, MEE!

lcol (laughing and crying out loud).

Nilou jan: Are you a lefty?

Nilou jan: Are you a lefty? Do you identify with the left? Did I mention your name in particular? I did not personally address you.

And the rest of your diatribe is not worth responding to. I have no animosity toward you and wish you success in your anti-imperialist activism.

Rosie jan

the islamic caliphate project died with khomeini. the nationalist element in the IRI is embedded in the revolutionary guards. (boy am i gonna get roasted! lol!)

this is why they don't engage in open warfare (as a caliphate project would need), but they keep building these support cells in various places.

idelologically, the shia have no chance of building an islamic caliphate outside of iran's borders. too much of a minority.

am so gald u get what i am trying to say here. would have given up long ago on this thread if it wasn't for u...

abc jan, this is you:

'some leftist are full of grotesque false bravado and hot air'. i guess you got so used to your abusive style that your vitriolic name calling totally escapes your own attention. it is part of the growing up process to notice your own style. and excuse me for getting upset about the pictures of children being bombed right in front of our eyes for no reason. i didn't mean to offend you.

Niloufar jan: Thou dost

Niloufar jan: Thou dost protest too much. Your astounding projection is insightful and self-revealing.

I'm not going to engage in personal attacks and vitriolic name calling as you habitually do on this site and call you an academic thug.

Your idealism and naivite is admirable and sometimes necessary in this world but I can assure you that you will get over your dangerous self-righthouness when you get older. Good luck defeating "imperialists" while supporting thugs like IRI. The end justifies the means, eh?

abc jan

you appear to be upset at the range of diverse views in the world being in agreement with each other in the face of a common, long-term problem. what is the issue for you? that there is so much diversity in the world or that these diverse groups have some things in common? is it really so strange that people of all different creeds are reaching out to each other to help fight foreign aggression perpetrated by the same group of imperialists over and over and in so many places?

The history of the middle east and its pains with regard to american and other western forms of imperialism is not that different from what has been happening in latin america for decades. the US is guilty of a wide range of atrocities in central and south america, but they hardly got much media attention. in fact, direct US military interventionism in the middle east is relatively new, but the latinos have been suffering from it for much longer.

that the US has had the audacity to base its torture chambers on the occupied soil of a sovereign nation that has dared to want to be independent should tell you what kind of a political culture cuba and others have had to face. the anti-imperialist alliance that you witness now is quite natural. and it is part of the reason america is trying to project a different image for itself lately. this US turnaround appears to be getting up the noses of some our hawkish friends here. i wonder why.

Dear abc, Thanks for the link

This subject has gone to a ridiculous extent. As it appears these days you shouldn't even think about the poverty and social diseases of Iran, it's more like a sacrilege.
Vaghean keh!

Islamist's Imperialism Envy

Anonymous X: some leftist are full of grotesque false bravado and hot air. They merely parrot the narrative picked up in their NGO training classes dictated by westerner leftist who have nothing but the interest of their own countries unlike their hired stooges who do the bidding for them.

The Islamic Republic's so-called Security strategy reminds me of a the boiling frog syndrome.

They say that if you put a frog into a pot of boiling water, it will leap out right away to escape the danger.
But, if you put a frog in a kettle that is filled with water that is cool and pleasant,
and then you gradually heat the kettle until it starts boiling,
the frog will not become aware of the threat until it is too late.

The story warns us to keep paying attention not just to obvious threats but to more slowly developing ones. Unfortunately, the Islamists and their leftists allies are too incompetent to realize that. They are good tacticians but fail miserably in strategy.

It seems that the Islamists have declared an official war against Imperalism.

I do think however, given their fascistic nature and uncomprimising disposition, they don't really hate imperialism; they just hate that the muslims are not the imperialists.

A Last week Hezbollah held a conference in Beirut called the ”International Forum for Resistance and Opposition to Imperialism and Solidarity Among People”. A key aim, according to a lead organiser, was linking up with other “anti-imperialists” from around the globe:

“In this part of the world the resistance is Islamic. The resistance movement here must introduce themselves to other forces of resistance to imperialism around the world. The ideological differences must be postponed. The resistance must prevail. … An important goal of the forum is how, despite the ideological contradictions, to find how to work together hand in hand to achieve unity against imperialism.”[he sounds like khomeini]

Along with Hezbollah, the other “anti-imperialist” speakers and delegates from the Muslim world included the deputy speaker of the Iranian Parliament, who was in Lebanon with a 40 man delegation, and members of Hamas and the PFLP.

It appears that the conference was predictably loopy and nasty. From a Los Angeles Times report:

Black clerical turbans bobbed up from the sea of long, curly hair and fashionable berets. Venezuelan leftists sought an interpreter to speak with Egyptian nationalists. Iranians handed out DVDs celebrating the assassin of Egyptian President Anwar Sadat and baseball caps that carried a quote from Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini: “Israel must be wiped out.”

“Imam Khomeini called America the Great Satan. Others call it imperialism or globalization,” he said to the hundreds who gathered here this weekend for a long-scheduled conference of Islamic, Arab, Western and Latin American opponents to the U.S. and Israel. “No matter what words you use to describe it, it’s the same enemy.”
The crowd roared with applause as each speaker denounced the U.S. and Israel. Interpreters translated speeches into English, French, Spanish and Arabic.

The three-day conference, which began Friday evening, presented a hodgepodge of ideas. Some participants mixed the rhetoric of class warfare with that of the Palestinian cause. “Resisting occupation cannot take place unless we fight against economic oppression,” said Laila Ghanem, a Lebanese journalist and activist.

…
//www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-f...

Well Anon FIsh Anon NP , others -revised

you said it's a fect that Israel doesn't need our (US) money w/smiley emoticon. Is it supposed to be a joke? I'm not kidding, because w/out American aid the state of Israel would've ceased to exist long ago. Why doesn't US give aid to Palestine? Why doesn't Israel give US aid to Palestine? Yes it would solve everything. The motives for US continuing to give Israel MILITARY aid and for Israel's endless wars are inscrutable to me.

Anyhow I really did like Niloufar's post which gives rationale why Iran aiding Gaza, etc. is not just a humanitarian act which could be invested in Iran but also a security measure which protects Iran. As I called it, achieving balance of power in the region, that is what I meant. But I don't agree completely w/Niloufar's use of the word "nationalistic" for IRI because IRI agenda from day one was to spread Shia into a kind of new caliphate in the Islamic world. But they couldn't do it and never will be able to. Regardless, that is a supra-nationalist agenda similar to the root conception of Islam itself since days of Mohammad. Which you could argue is in itself tied into security and balance of power, of course, but point is it isn't nationalistic (in sensu strictu, unless you mean Nation of Islam.

Which segways into what other fish says. So then is all this focus on this aspect, aid to Hamas and Hezbollah, excessive and damaging ultimately to Iranian welfare at home, unemployed people, etc.--regardless of whether the geopolitical strategy is sound or not for security, which many think not? Many many people here seem to think it is harmful, so much money for non-Iranians, not just now but in general, and that is why they are suspicious or upset about the huge groundswell of Iranian expat support for Gaza.

It's a very big question as yet unresolved in the discussions (and probablly will remain so) but I sure would like to see it discussed reasonably in detail without people biting each other's heads off!

Roxane

delete

double post

Unregistered Fish

Yes you heard it here.

It's a classic symptom of an Iranian disease that afflicts many, especially after they come to the U.S. and start mistake their green card or naturalization papers for a license to be self-righteous, arrogant, and hypocritical.

It's called "Do as I say, don't do as I do."

now wouldn't it be nice

if the US gave some of our hard earned dollars to palestine for regrowth instead of israel. and no, i'm not reversing my opinion on anything. BUT. it's a fact that israel doesn't need our money...:-). i'd much rather see a concerted effort by americans (and the world) to help fund a humanitarian aid program instead of the foolish boycotts which accomplish nothing.

so... people. where are your efforts for BUILDING something instead of tearing it down? talk IS cheap. this is something you could really sink your teeth into and actually do palestine some good. hurting or punishing israel doesn't do diddly for the people who have lost their homes.

besides, i doubt iranians have any extra to fund someone else's need for a decent home to live in and food to eat. could this just be a publicity stunt?

it's always interesting AND amusing to hear someone speak about america, americans and hollywood and they've never lived in america!!!!!!

now... where did i hear it said that someone who hasn't lived in iran shouldn't speak about iran? was it here? no. couldn't be. could it?

let's unite in a common cause. instead of propogating more hate.

Niloufar, do you know why security of Iran is in danger?

Because they can’t stop meddling in Palestinian and Israeli affair. That’s why. The same way Khomeini did it. Oh and I do remember those days of revolution when he could not shut up and talk about the spreading the Islamic revolution to the surrounding areas. He sure did not like Saddam and Saddam took advantage of the situation and attacked. Thus we went through 8 years of disaster.

And are you kidding me, you mean you haven’t seen all the supports of Iran given to Arab countries all these years, it’s just the humanitarian reason? A shrine gets destroyed in Iraq, who repairs it? Iran. Some shrine in need of repair, who repairs it? Iran. This has been very systematic from day one of revolution when all those chador clad women gave all their gold to Yasser Arafat standing next to Khomeini and in return Palestinians fought along Iraqis against Iranians.

So we all left our homeland for what? So Iran can stick its nose in other countries business and create Islamic utopia and ,bandeh va jenabeali inja beshinim somsagh bemakim. And for your information I’m not one of those people praying for America drop few bombs to change the regime. But I really get sick into my stomach for all these blind support by my fellow liberal Iranians.

That's a good post, NP, you should give it a

a specific focus and some editing and blog it.

I am following the conversation.

Roxane

Anonymousx

i have never lived in the US, but i have been to abadan, and we have even worse than that. ever been to baluchestan? at least abadan used to have its hey day. zahedan never did. they dont even have running drinking water.  i was just giving you an example of how relative the issue of poverty is, and that drug addiction can be a problem for the affluent too the world over, and not just in iran.

for the same reason, gaza is far worse off than what we have in iran. do you know that it is one of the most densely populated territories in the world? point was, when there is a disaster, foreign countries help, especially friendly ones. helping the palestinians does not have to be at the expense of lifting people out of poverty in iran.

of course the resources are limited, but the IRI is not being totally irrational in what it does. it is part of its security policy, the same policy that has convinced the americans that they cannot take on iran militarily the way they did with the afghans and the iraqis. it is the same policy that has made sure that israel was prevented by the americans from attacking iran last year. they have forged certain alliances including with iraq and syria that make sense in pure strategic terms. yes they ARE religious nuts, but they also ARE nationalists.

lets be frank: we are talking about the desire of a nation to maintain its security. whatever we think of the IRI - and, once again, we ALL hated it enough to leave the country - iran remains against all odds an island of stability in a region that is almost completely torn apart by conflict. every day that passes by, the US and israeli actions in the region bolster iran's position while undermining the position of almost all US allies: from the saudis to the egyptians to the non-shia in lebanon to pakistan to afghanistan. now you have an alliance building up between iran and turkey too.

whatever i do, i will for sure not talk in favour of the US and israel against iran because i have seen with my own eyes exactly what it is that they aim to achieve and how they go about it. this is not the same as being an apologist for anyone. it is being realistic, pragmatic and caring about the lives of iranian civilians. unless obama really delivers, i doubt judging by what he has already done in pakistan, that the US will show a real change of heart in the middle east yet. but, having said that, we are all watching with anticipation and an open mind.

yes the IRI should spend all its resources on fighting poverty in iran, like every other country should do, but believe me, from where i am standing, they are doing a damn sight better job of protecting iran from foreign attack now (as compared to back in 1980) than others in iraq, pakistan, afghanistan, lebanon, israel, georgia etc. and check this: the ONLY movement that has defeated israel in its short history and many wars is Hezbollah.

now, do the palestinians deserve humanitarian support? of course they do, and there is no question about it.

another question is (and this is your question) which strategy is best in the interest of iran and iranians? it is not an easy question, and i can only analyse as well as my little mind allows me to. but for sure, there are different outlooks and possibilities at hand. to me, it seems that the best way to deal with the IRI question is to help encourage cooling off by the other side, so that there is a real possibility for reform in iran.

others think we need another revolution. fair enough, lets see if the people of iran will or would follow that. i certainly would not oppose it, but i just do not see it happening and i do not see who or what would lead it, and what result we may get from it. quite the contrary, i think the idea of another revolution at this stage in iran fits right into the strategy of those who want to dominate the region and they do not give a damn about who would get hurt in iran while doing that. just take a quick look around iran's borders and you will see the project of western 'democracies' for the region so far. they used to call it PNAC. lets see what it is going to be now.

Peace!

Look at this photo. Click on

Look at this photo. Click on the link

یک: دیروز رییس مجلس شورای اسلامی، احداث ساختمان مجلس را برای حماس در غزه بر عهده بیت المال گرفت. پول روزنامه و رادیوی مورالس بولیوی را هم که از قرار بر عهده همین بیت الحال سیاسی گذاشته اند و الباقی که بماند ...

دو: عکس بالا را یکی از دوستان در یکی از خیابان های مهمترین بندر تجاری کشور، یعنی بندرعباس، گرفته؛ همین سه روز قبل

آخر: ... هیچ ... دل باید برای غزه بسوزد که دارند بد از او دفاع می کنند. دل باید برای کودک ایرانی بسوزد که نان اش را از توی زباله های شهر بیرون می کشد وقتی هنوز قدش به قد دسته چهارچرخش نمی رسد؛ بی تقصیر، با سختی. این جاست که شک به همه چیز جان می گیرد ... عکس هم تقدیم به رییس محترم مجلس

Beverly Hills? LMAO

Beverly Hills is crawling with drug addicts?

Those are actually the CELEBRITIES stuck in traffic on Santa Monica Boulevard during rush hour.

The homeless in places like Beverly Hills are there because they actually are a bit safer there than they would be, say, on Skid Row.

And while drug addiction is not a phenomenon restricted only to the poor, comparing drug addiction among the affluent of 90210 (the results of recreational overindulgence) to the poor in Iran (borne out of feelings of desperation and hopelessness) is very irresponsible, to say the least.

Same goes for prostitution. In Beverly Hills the whores turn tricks in order to pay for a Mercedes SLK and a condo. In Iran, they do it to be able to buy food for themselves and often, their kids.

Niloufar, No I don’t live in your goody California

I live in one of those states that many of the Tehrangeles crowd consider it backward (peef peef boo gand mideh). And yes I do see poverty, but there is no way in hell you can compare Iran with US when it comes to standard of living (I hope IRANDOKHT gets to see this.) I experienced poverty in Iran and I was not a landowner’s daughter have it easy and leave the country at a very young age. So please do not lecture me on poverty and human suffering I have seen it all.

I don’t know about you but I am traumatized by 8 years of war and losing loved ones.
And please don’t tell us that you do not support the actions of IRI; in fact IRI right now is wholly enjoying your support. Your message to IRI right now should be: stop the insanity. Otherwise Niloufar I don’t know what you and other supporters of this doing here. At least what you can do help financially those who really need the money in Gaza so there is less pressure on Iranians or go there grab a gun and fight along Hamas.

And you know what would be interesting if you people go Iran; oh I don't know maybe some place like Abadan and tell the ordinary Iranians that you fully support all the financial help of IRI in other countries. The reaction is something needs to be seen.

This is good news for the IRI lovers

Antarinejad promised that the oil money would be on everyone's dinner tables.

He never mentioned anything about those dinner tables being Palestinian, but that's not a big deal is it?

I don't know what to say.

our money that belongs to our nation is being spend in Gaza while our regions in east, west and south are in poverty. The cities are underdeveloped and unemployment on rise. This is how a racist central government behaves.

Anonymousx

yes really! much as it may shock you, the mullahs did not invent poverty, prostitution or drug addiction in the world. they certainly are not masters of economic management, but neither are the americans. i don't know where you live, but even in beverly hills you can see homeless people, and the place is crawling with drug addicts.

and pls try to appreciate this: i am far from happy with the mullahs' rule, but i bite my tongue and respect the choices made by the people of iran (even in not revolting against the mullahs despite the dictatorship), and when i compare a state's performance against others, i do not base it on my own political preferences. certainly, when it comes to humanitarian relief, which is directly related to the pains you describe, only much worse, i do not prioritise my own politics over innocent people's acute suffering, and i believe no one else should. but that is just my opinion.

Really Niloufar?

Please go to Tehran see how easily girls get on strangers cars, no questions asked. Go to middle class areas see the drug addicts falling sleep on the side of the streets while they are high on heroin.
Go see how many young men and women are selling their kidneys so they can come up with down payment of an apartment or just get by.

I'm sure you and others here go and visit but it's all about the nice parties and having fun.

Just tell me when a family makes 250$ a month and the price of one killo of meat is 11$ how can they get by?

Yes be joyful that all the money is going somewhere else.

Fix Iran first...

The wealth of Iran comes from Khuzestan. The money should be used to fix every part of Abadan and Khoramshahr (to its pre-war time and better), if anything is left give it to the Gazan and the Lebanonese. The Saudis and the arab states from the Persian Gulf region should be in the forefront of helping the Palestinians. We should help others when we have fixed our own house.

Rosie jan

oh dear, i think i should just go to bed as i am missing the point! it's so so late...gotta work tomorrow!