News

:))

Sophisticated, Indeed:)

Mehdi

FYI,

Yes, it is true. I jeesh standing up. :-)

Mehdie mazloom

No. I do get it, i just don't get YOU and your jibberish.

1- is that what kave was trying to do? So. somehow the mention of the term fozool-bazi must be stopped, is a sophisticated form of demonstrating the gap between the islamic and intelletualized, western way of thinking? wow. ok.
Something tells me that you will be here a long time trying to make improvements to your farsi skills.

2- I take having a thin skin over manipulation and twisting and changing one's words, any day.

3- Thanks for clearing that up. as if i did not know that and realize that myself!!

4- I know!! as in the kinda headache most big western men get when they are performing their spousal duties every night, resulting in the lining up of many kids in one family, right? Those who can work, are quite capable physically, yet use all kinds of excuses to rip the government off, applying for all kinds of disability and koof o zahremar.
You think eating polo keshmesh is so bad, try stuffing one's face with peperonni pizza, burgers during their visits to their neighborhood fast food places and buffetts, by spending the same money they get from the government.
Dude. You'r arguments have no leg to stand on.

KouroshS - rely

Besmellah he' rahim. Be-esme khoda, ve- bar-zende ghrme sabsi. What am I going to do with you. YOU STILL DON"T GET IT DO YOU.

1. The connection is, you seem to epitomize the exact mind set as the Mullahs do. Kaveh is clearly pointing out the very reasons for the big desperaty between the Western societies and the Muslims. Although he does it in mature and intellectual level, you take it as personal attack. clearly missed the spirit of his message.

I always made it clear that I speak rudimentary Farsi, neither read, nor write the  language. One reason I am here is to improve my spoken farsi.

2. Leadership: Again, you have a very thin skin my good man. I was not attacking you personally, just trying to point out that, in general, societies succeed and fail due to good or bad leadership.

In the west, you can get up and shout in public to your leader, he had failed your confidence in his leadership. In Arab & Islamic countries (except Turkey), they will chop your head off.

3. Backyard. I  was speaking figuratively, not directly. I respct you where ever you live in.

4. Lower pain back: ah, that is a good one. Sure when a man has to use the little head to keep 4 wives "stocked" with babies. Perform every night, off course, it results with back pain. Here, you have provided answer to your own questions. No wonder, the poor man can't function during the day - he needs to gain his strength back. That is why the eat so much pollow keshmesh.

Now, if he would have to use his big head, that would result with headache.

Was that a letter to The UN ....??

mehdi mazloom.

yeah. I fail to understand a lotta of things, chief among them the fact that why someone who claims to be an american israeli makes so many spelling errors! and also why someone who has lived iniran for a few years should not realize that both Kaveh and Kourosh are male names!

that is ok. Kaveh and I have done a lot of pushing and pulling, it is a dance we invented.
Here are my questions to you:
1- Where is the connection between my mentality being stuck in the stone ages, an accusation that i vehemently deny for the sake of the poo-poo that is being presented to prove it, and the fact that no moslim social or natural scientists have claim a noble prize in recent years?
2- Do you have enough evidence, on the basis of which you can make the correct diagnosis what form of leadership i follow? or is it all shekami logic, based on conjectures and gut-feelings?

3- i would have loved to look in my backyard... I do need some light work out, if only i lived in a house. I have a one bedroom apartment though. But why is it that you refer to moslems collectively as not having made any progress? Are the leaderships of all moslim countries as backward as the mullahs?

4- Excuse me, but since lower back pain is a common ailement among many moslims, it is usually recommended that we lie down rather than sitting on our behinds. Oh and the reason why we have that back pain is because of hours of hard work. so... what was that thing about oil drying up again?

Are you an Israeil-american for real or are you FEELMEENG us?

(i just had to ask)

The reality of the matter...

The reality of the matter... Wow. don't you think that is a bit of an stretch for an opening line? Does everyone believe in this reality or is it just you?
I sound Ludicrous, However i don't even come close to how many times you have, but that is not the point here, perhaps because it is you who is trying to use your vicious argumentation tehniques to blow things out of proportion. And i look at the iranians of the day section everyday...where should i look to find the malice and scorn in there?

That is your solution, But that is not THE solution. thank god. Not that i am suggesting we should be aware of every detail that is going on in peoples' lives, but to have certain level of control over one's actions and words out of respect for their surrondings and who lives with them is not such a bad thing and that is not necessarily a preoccupation with what others think about it.
Ok. fine. I am misunderstanding you. You just keep going on with that line and logic see how far that takes you.

We live in a very competitive society and in order to survive we need to be able to compete. A Lot of iranians do not adhere to practicing of double standards, and that is only prevalent among a minority. A lot of us iranians don't even have those high expectations from other cultures. We are allowed a certain level of criticism of other cultures in order to be able to survive. You see things black and white, and maybe you want things more perfect that they can be, but i have got news for you, shutting the hell up ain't gonna cut it.

Your impression that our pride has virtually become arrogance, is just another one of your clever ways of playing around with words.
If you want to eliminate...whatever is it that you wanna eliminate. then take it up within your neigborhood and kick booty where you see a booty that needs to be kicked, but do not resort to generalizations and innuendos and your other tactics suggesting a cultural revolution. You are responsible to descipline a foozool and his or her bazziez, they way you see fit. Others may not see that az fozool bazi, So being an advocate does not pay off here.

KouroshS - Going forward

Reading the exchange between you and kaveh, it is more and more evidence that you fail to understand what the lady is trying to convey to you.

YOU ARE SEEING THE TREES, BUT FAIL TO SEE THE FORREST. 

One of the hallmarks underlying the massive development throughout the western societies, while the Islamic world had remained stagnant, it is the ability of the west to engage in self criticism, by which they used it as an effective tool to correct their shortcoming and take tangible steps to improve themseves.

Kaveh is trying to move you one step forward, and you pull her 2 steps backward. You will have to forgive me ahga/ khanom, But it is clear that you are still stuck in the same mind set as the Mullahs, who still have convinced themselves (and any idiots who are willing to listen to them) that, they are the standard barer of morality, and the meaning of respect, and freedom of expression. Their brand of Islam is the correct way to live.

Takh-less, let cut the chase get to the point. (Muslims will have to forgive me for being blunt. Sometimes, you need to get some of them, and shake their neck hard to wake them up to reality).

Tell me, what Muslims have contributed to mankind in past 950 years. Medicine, industrial, education, economy, human rights. How many Arab & Iranian Nobel laureates in area of natural and social science are out there.?

Are Muslims that backwards compare to other religious denominations. I assure they ARE NOT a bit less capable then any other freaking Jew, Christian, Hindu and Buddhist. Just compare the Iranian intellectuals living throughout the west to see what I mean.

It has everything to do with leadership. Like the Israelis will drill it in your head day in and day out THERE ARE NO BAD FOLLOWERS, THERE ARE ONLY BAD LEADERS. There are no bad, or stupid  Iranians, they have bad and stupid leadership.

So my good man / woman, why don't you swallow you pride, and look at your own backyard, see the weeds growing among the green grass, to see the real cause to why Muslims have fallen behind the rest of the civilization for past 1000 years. 

Don't tell me "we were" (Mahah boo-dim), that does not cut it. What Muslim had contributed a 1000 years ago, it does not mean sitting on their ass and expect dividant in their bank account from others. Soon or later that oil in the ground will be depleded, and with it, the value of Iran, Sausi Arabia and other exporting states to the rest of humanty.

Kourosh

Why do you continue to delude yourself from the reality of the matter?

Are you suggesting that I equate accomplishments of Iranians to losing one's identity or being in bed with Zionists? The fact is that I don't do that at all. Those are just examples of the many negative reactions that surface when accomplishments of Iranians are raised. Each person stands on his or her own accord and merits. But for you to suggest that a cultural mentality of petty jealousy, malicious envy, and outright scorn for those who have accomplished something doesn't exist is ludicrous. Just look at the Iranians of the Day on this website for examples.

Where have I suggested that a solution doesn't exist to this problem? The solution is in fact very simple: It's called minding our f**king business. One of the biggest shortcomings in our culture is that we spend more time preoccupied with what other people say and do at the expense of monitoring our own words and actions.

Again you are misunderstanding me. I don't have any fantasy notions that we have a moral obligation to be role models. We are in absolutely no position to be role models to anyone, as we have failed ourselves to live up to any of the standards that we seem to expect from others. Culturally, we have a lot of double standards. Maybe no more or no less than other other cultures, but we have them. And frankly, they're ugly. And until we as a culture address and consciously change that for the betterment of ourselves, and our society, we need to simply shut the hell up about others. I'm sorry if you don't want to see what's in front of you. The inability to see it or refusing to see it doesn't mean it isn't there. We have crossed the line where cultural, ethnic and national pride has become arrogance. We talk about the "ugly American", while we risk becoming the "ugly Iranian".

How is my moral code or sense of decency strict? Because I believe we should eliminate the foozzol-baazi? I understand fully that people are who and what and how they are. And so long as they don't stick their nose into anyone else's business, it's all good.

But do you honestly see that being the case?

You indeed have an overly

You indeed have an overly active imagination. When was the last time such accomplishments were associated with being in bed with zionism or losing one's identity. Are you creating evidence now to support your claim?

I don't think that there is ever going to be a satisfactory solution to this cultural trend, Since at this level, you refuse to believe that there is even a solution exist out there and steps have been taken and are being taken to get rid of it. You have this fantasy notion that based on our long history we somehow have an obligation to act as role models.
Without considering that the situation is far more different than how things were when our civilization began.
I do understand what you meant by setting standards. no need for further dissecting it.

has it ever occured to you that maybe it is YOU who needs to look at things differently and understand some people the way they are and not expect everyone to behave based on your strict moral code and criteria for decency?

Kourosh

When I say "we", I'm not referring to each and every one of us. You should know that.

You're totally right, there are Iranians who have accomplished great things. They are indeed model citizens, worthy of tremendous respect and admiration.

But it's naive to think that it hasn't been overshadowed by all of the negatives that have happened. Worse still, there is a prevalent and powerful mentality in our own culture where these achievers are actually criticized for their accomplishments. "They lost their identity", "they're in bed with the Zionists", all of that kos-e-sher that Mexicans and blacks do to each other.

You're misinterpreting what I said about "setting standards". I'm not suggesting that we go around to others and say "hey, we are the best moral barometers in the world". Because honestly, after 30 centuries, we still suck.

But we have to stop using others as a gauge. We are some of the biggest "armchair quarterbacks" in the world. In our culture, we are more obsessed with being right than we are about being better. We constantly lecture, but we don't learn a thing. We have so much going for us, yet we have this genetic predisposition to f**k it up and then blame others for the results.

Of course we're not all crooks. But don't you see what's going on around here? People are defending the crooks solely on the basis of their being Iranian!

Right is right, and wrong is wrong. Especially on this website, I see people who go out of their way to qualify the differences between Iranian shortcomings and wrongdoing and those of others. If it's Iranian, then "eets ok. don't voory. taksir-e-een zionist ke een joori shod. ma chikar konim?"

Basseh digeh baba. Khasteh shodam az een kos-e-sher.

well hopefully we'll agree on one thing

not everyone is "anything" all the time.  if i claim it, i'm wrong.  if anyone else claims it, they're wrong as well.  certain ethnicities have their certain characteristics.  certain regions have their own peculiar traditions, certain people have their own agenda. 

not all reflections or comments are complaining.  i think mehdi's was intended just as mine was... an affectionate recounting of my experience.

admittedly changing the subject...:-)  what's your particular interest in med school and where are you trying to go?  good luck to you.  i didn't realize you were that young...:-)))

anonymous fish - I too laught my ass off

After reading your description on the bottom, I also fell on the floor with laugh. Not at the Iranians, rather at the whole elaborate taarof.

many times, they also push the bowel and say.

"Maan beh-miraam, bo-khor, bishtar. (I will die, eat).You reply.

ghrban, maan khaili khordam, she-kam-mem por-reh. They will reply.

chi-shi bi-khidi harf mizani?, kojah khordy ghrboon?, hi-chi nakhordy. 

Anyway, Thanks for the humor, it is wonderful to read. all the best.

Kaveh and Fishie

No we don't! WE as in the collective we, as in All of us, every single one of us iranians on this planet, DO not make such a claim. You are exaggerating. If you said there is a good percentage that do so i'd believe you, even then i know in my heart that half of what you hear is pure jambalaya and BS and i look at and treat it as a lie.
There are some iranians who really have made great achievements and are model citiziens in their respected communities and there are those who flap their gums and are good for nothing. Have we not been able to develope the ability to recognize the difference?

There are no set-in-stone rules that suggest we should or ought to be setting moral agenda or standards by which other countries should base their behaviors on, says who? Romans and Greeks have similar if not longer history of existence and their cultural identity has at some areas far surpassed ours, and no one is suggesting they should be the front runners when it comes to setting standards.

Using palestine as an excuse for some iranians, is a total political issue and many iranians choose to distance themselves from it. We pontificate?? do we? this is the first time i am hearing this. since when?
Are you talking about those Satelite personalities and their one hour daily shows? you hold that as an standard, a yard stick, to measure the rest of iranians by? If that is not whom you are referring to, then who are you talking about?

I did not want you or anyone else to be critical of other societies, and i know that we have our Eybs and pitfalls here and there, But what you and mohammad did was stretching this to a level which gave iranians, all of them, the image and impression of crooks.
And that is not right.

Fishie jan.

I am a historian of sorts?? really? according to what credible source of information LOL but heck, if that is gonna help me get into med school, would you please put in writing and sign it for me:)
You misread my comments again... I paid particular attention to not give the impression that everyone is like that, and that is why is said CERTAIN ones behave in such a manner. But yes,it is Based on that potential and that capability of all people of all cultures to act like that, that we see such unpleasantaries!

Dudette... I live in the south. Does it get any more souther:) than Texas? more precisely Austin, Tx? Kidding. I know that in states such as alabama and lousiana one can see even more stark examples.
Yet, not all southerners are like that,and ju
st like as i was telling kaveh, not all iranians are that crazy. Maybe we can even extend the cultural pride theory to explain those certain kinds of iranians.

What amazes me is that none of those who criticize such trend among iranians, are willing to even acknowledge the fact that there are so many ways to deal with the taarof problem, which saves you from
frustrating yourself or offending the other person, so they would notthink their Maast or their fruit or anything else, is no good and get offended as a result. Why not accepting this, Instead of
coming out complaining about it and use that as as a jumping board to criticize iranians and their habits?

What i say to all my friends and family members after the second round of the tarroff contest, of course with a very pleasant smile.is please don't taarof and i will have more soon enough. I just don't have room for anything right now.
It calms them down, it saves me from getting needlessly frustrated, and we both feel good afterwards.

kouroush

you are correct sir.  he DID use the past tense.  in that respect he is right.  cyrus the great was deserving of every accolade given him.  it is unfortunate that his legacy has been... hmmm... tarnished somewhat.

i know you're a historian of sorts.  may i respectfully ask a question?  i've hear so many time that iran has not invaded another country EVER.  but in reading about cyrus the great, did he not invade and conquer himself, thus creating the largest empire, persia? 

you are also correct in your comment to kaveh about everyone having a superior attitude.  No... not exactly.  not EVERYONE... but every race, every ethnicity, every religion, every gender or creed... has the CAPABILITY of having that same attitude.  clearly not every individual feels that way.  however, there are few saints living among us...LOL. 

dude... just go to the south... and this has NOTHING to do with racism.  the south are such a culturally proud people.  it's not "where did you go to school?"  but "who are your people?".  believe me... it doesn't make any difference how much money you make as long as you've lived south of the mason-dixon line for over 100 years and your summer beach house at isle of palms has a beach front address.    i don't think kaveh would ever deny that such attitudes exist everywhere.  i think he is simply pointing out that iranians go to such lengths to DENY this in themselves.

i'm not sure i'm getting the whole gist of the fruit thing correctly but as an american and newly integrating with my in-laws... i can positively vouch for the INSISTING of eating something.  it's quite the joke now in our home when i offer something to azizam. 

"would you like some more maast azizam?"  "no thank you".  "are you sure?  let me get you some more".  "no.. thank you.  i've had enough".  "oh azizedelam... just a little more.. i know how much you like it!".  "no, really shirinam... i'm quite full".  "what?  you don't like my maast anymore?"   "no! shiriterinam... i LOVE your maast.  i'm just too full for anymore right now".  "fine azizedelam... i just won't make it anymore.  let me take this terrible maast away from your sight and you won't have to worry about seeing it ever again!". 

"ok. please give me some more maast.  i'm so hungry for it, i could AND will eat the whole bowl"

my sister-in-law would simply not give up on offering more.  i kept wondering... what the hell am i supposed to do?  i was so afraid of offending her but i was like TOTALLY stuffed.  my husband was laughing his ASS off in the other room!!!!

sorry if i misunderstood and took this train to east bumfuck tennessee.

bottom line.  no single person is better than another.  some are more fair.  many are kinder.  some are good and some are simply bad.  it's not iranian and it's not american.  it's simply human. 

Kourosh

Don't misunderstand me. You are 100% correct. This behavior indeed exists in virtually every society and every country throughout the world.

But this isn't about other countries or societies. It's about our society. A society that "talks the talk" but doesn't "walk the walk". We claim to be better in so many ways, yet we act so low at times it's truly shameful.

Sure, Americans at times go off on the "We're American, therefore we come first" tangent. You don't like it, I don't like it and I'm pretty sure many others don't either. Anything that perpetuates the image of the "ugly American" is unappealing to me.

But as a group, we (Iranians) don't have the moral right to be critical of the negative behavior of other countries unless our own house is in order. And you can't disagree....our house is a mess.

Aren't we supposed to be BETTER than those other places? Rather than being compared to other countries, shouldn't we be setting the standards for other countries to aspire to be emulate? Let's look at things the way they truly are. 3000 years and we're still a third world country. We are one of the oldest civilizations known to mankind, yet we are so behind the times.

Sure, we can say America is this, America is that. They've been around only 233 years. That constitutes around 8% of our existence. After 3000 years, what the hell is our excuse? We sit here and pontificate like we have infinite wisdom shoved up our ass, yet the rest of the world is passing us by, man. And the only thing we can do is play the Palestinian card over and over again.

Of course I'll go out of my way to single out Iranians when it comes to pinpointing these mannerisms. I'm Iranian. I cannot be critical of other countries or societies while ignoring or downplaying the many shortcomings and failures of my own in the same areas. It's completely hypocritical to do so.

KouroshS - Need to clarlify

No, no no, I see where the falut line is.

We need distinguish between the cultural (Taarof) and History (Cyrus) these are not necessarily related.

The taarof is what is practiced today. Since I have no contact with Iran, no have visited there for.............long long time. I am aware of it, but as a long time Israeli & American, I don't care for it. Not as denigration, rather as un-necessary burden in the environment where we are today. (None of my siblings practice them either).

The one attribute to which I absolutely abhor is when, Iranians meet one another, (or they think man-aam khode-muniam) for the first time. It is fascinating to watch their body language, facial expression where they literally size up each other. Ki be-ki eh-teram bah-yass-bedeh. Ki aaz ki dom-besh (Tail) bo-zorg-tarreh. Who has more money, or his / her academic education. Doctors being on the high totem pole. That dictate their future relationship, when the one (who thinks) with the longer tail expect the shorter one to pay him homage. 

about Cyrus I studied it in High School in Israel. 

I am sorry mehdi ... But why

I am sorry mehdi ... But why did
cyrus hold a very WORM and respectable place in jewish history?

As far as Iranian and customs go, they are not designed for overly critical and analytically inclined minds such as yours!

All this maybe true, But yet you or nobody else can base such taaroffs and other traditions on such historical scenarios. Iranians are the way the are, just like the americans and germans are in certain ways.
It is nonsensical to attribute such behaviors to historical trends.

KouroshS

Na baba, I don't denigrate the custom, rather i wrote it as light hearted comment. However, if you don't eat (even you are not hungry at all), your host may be insulted, and that is a big no no.

To be honest, I don't adhere to it anymore, nor care for it.

In regards to past events. My good man, the ones who keep bringing the tragic event of Khybar are those Akhoonda like Jannati, during Friday preaches at Tehran University, as reminder to the Israelis of what is waiting for them, if they don't submit to his sick and perverted interpretation of Islam.

If Iranian had forgotten the act of kindness from Cyrus II, that is understandable. However, Jews did not forget it, and teach this event throughout high schools in Israel. as part of Jewish history and heritage. Cyrus II hold a very worm and respectable place in Jewish history and we are grateful to him for that.

Seems that everyone has

Seems that everyone has decided unanimously to change the topic of the thread. How nice:)

Kaveh

The cultural superiority and two-face manner of behaving you speak of, exists in EVERY society and country in the world! name one country, In the first or the second or the Nth world, where such an attitude is not seen. It seems to me that you are somehow going out of your way to single iranians out when it comes down to pinpointing bad and unpleasant mannerisms.
Right here in The U.S., My appologies to my dearest americans, i love you to death, but i have seen such jaw-dropping and mesmorizing expressions of "i am better than you no matter what" attitude, from those whom you expect the least to show such disgusting behavior. You can't possibly tell me that it has not happened to you or someone you know. I simply do not believe you. there are certain people who are all smiles when they see you or work with you, but the moment you turn around, there goes the..."that god damn... sob... mfing...this or that". Now, how about giving our folks a break?

Mehdie mazloom.

You know, it takes a good and clean mind to realize that most of these situation that you described, happen because the host actually MEAN what they say. They ask you, they don't DEMAND that you eat the damn fruit. You can, as i have, polietly and respectfully decline their Taarof, and trust me, they will back off and do not act as cunning evils, instead of coming On iranian.com and talk behind their backs. You know, the same akhlagh you abhor so much!!!!!!!!!!I am sorry for the trouble that puts you through, There are individuals out there that are so much more deserving of that annoying attention that you are. rest-assured.

A "perceived" habit or custom does not have "primary" cause but a "probable" one. How many do you think, in today's iran remember that favor back in 2500 years ago? especially those who are not history buffs such as yourself, and for that matter the battle of kheybar?. Most people do not know and most do not even care, because they have learned to coexist.
How sophomoric to quote an old and antiquated set of information,as the basis to pass judgements on a new and modern iranian society, and accuse them of living in the past! and even worst ,to put the responsibility and the reflection of such behavior on the shoulders of a person who in no way shape and form represents real iranians' interest.

Ananymous Fishie

Fishie.

Please re-read these lines. Perhaps you were angry or in a hurry, or for some reason did not pay close attention:
Joe-l said
They freed the slaves, Jews and made peace around the globe.
You said
are you seriously suggesting that iran is making peace around the globe? my dear sir. i simply don't know how to respond to that statement

Can't you see that he was using past tense? Where is the reference to the current iranian regime?

Thank you:)

by Kaveh Nouraee - exactly

you wrote:

That and the "two-face" behavior is probably why I choose not to get too close to other Iranians. They kiss you on both cheeks and say
"nokaretam" to your face, then the moment your back is turned, it's
"khaak bar saresh".

 That is exactly what I have been trying to point out. That decadent and maligned ta'arrof.

The one custom I love to see is, when they invite guests, and put a dish with fruits in  front of him.

"befarmah, bo-khorit".

Just before the gust reach to the fruit, the host jumps in.

"Man be-miraam, bo-khor!!!.

The problem is, this repeated demand become so annoying that, rarely the guest  takes the fruit.

The most troubling is when you see it played among family members.

In regards to their perceived superiority over Jews, You are right, they do. Primarily is because of favor Cyrus II had done to Jews some 2500 years ago. Also it is due to their religious doctrine and events of Khyber back in 635 when Muhammad and his pack-rats obliterated the tribe of Jewish enclave near Madinah, and subsequent their enslavement. Now, the Akhamg in Tehran thinks, he can repeat Muhammad's foot step. 

And that is the problem with most Iranians, unfortunately they live for the past, with little thoughts about the future. The akhmag just reflect that philosophy. 

Fish

Having that predisposition doesn't make you horrible. After all, we come into this world as blank pieces of paper and from the moment that obstetrician slaps us on the ass, the world is doodling all over us.

What burns me is that people who clearly have that predisposition or any other kind go out of their way to deny it.

Me....I have a short fuse, a hot temper, and at times I'm as subtle as a fart in a confessional. I can live with it.

I don't believe all Iranians are anti-Semites either, at least not in the traditional sense. But one thing I've found, more often than not, is that many of them seem to think that they are superior is some way to Jewish people. But I think that's part of the greater cultural superiority complex Iranians tend to have.

That and the "two-face" behavior is probably why I choose not to get too close to other Iranians. They kiss you on both cheeks and say "nokaretam" to your face, then the moment your back is turned, it's "khaak bar saresh".

Q

first i would like to apologize for the offspring comment.  after re-reading and certainly based on your interpretation, i have absolutely no excuse for suggesting an insult to your children.  reacting to direct and inferred insults to me is simply no excuse and in appallingly bad taste.  i hope you will accept my most sincere and heartfelt regrets for that statement.

second.  well, pretty much in conclusion.  i don't believe there is any chance of productive recourse with you.  i have replied in humor to other comments you've made and you've ignored them.  it's clear that your agenda is not one of debate or even disagreement but one of provocation and pure negativism to each and every comment i make.  we have utterly different views towards the jewish people.  there is no point is discussing it further. 

it is true i revealed my name some time ago.  it's also clear why i elected to CHANGE my name to something a little else public.  you knew that as i made it perfectly clear in that discussion.  i don't think it's unintentional that you used my given name here. 

irandokht.  what a hypocritical statement about the typo.  is your memory so short?  mine is not.  your comment about insulting people's intelligence and opinions is also the HEIGHT of hypocracy and double standards when you and your cohorts do it EVERY CHANCE YOU GET.   talk about wanting to score a point.  i remind you again, my memory is very VERY clear and long.   please... be careful.

ostaad.  i keep hearing about iranian jews living in iran.  they are first and foremost IRANIANS.  why would they want to leave iran to live in israel just because they are jews?  iran is their COUNTRY.  judaism is their religion.  they should be allowed to enjoy both in complete freedom.  i make a relative comparison... i am offered 10K to live in ireland because ireland is one of the strongholds of catholicism and my grandparents came from ireland.  why would i accept that offer?  i live in america and i'm american.  i want to enjoy my religion in america in peace.  your argument is without merit.  it simply doesn't make sense.

joe-l.  i am no more speaking on behalf of all americans than you are.  to suggest that i don't have a right to my opinion is the very thing you are criticizing ME for.  i am jealous that you've been to iran.  it's my hope that i'll be able to visit the vatan of my husband in the future as well. 

but dear sir.  look at your comments. 
Dear Madam, the racism is the nature of this country, what you talking about?  yes, america has a terrible history of racism.  are you suggesting that we have not made huge steps in correcting that horrible part of our history?  do we not have an african-american president as we speak?  are you suggesting that the current regime in iran has made progressive statements towards women and minorities in iran?  please sir.

Iranians hold one the most humanistic cultures in the world, are the warmest people and had never have any slaves or history of racism. you are incorrect.  iran does have a history of enslavement.  however, yes, cyrus the great was the forefront of humanitarism.  i also believe that iranians as a people are an incredible culture.  their regime is not.

They freed the slaves, Jews and made peace around the globe.  are you seriously suggesting that iran is making peace around the globe? my dear sir.  i simply don't know how to respond to that statement.

kaveh.  it's unfortunate that defensiveness has also served as a blinder.  i don't believe all iranians are anti-semitic and i've never said such a thing.  i do believe it's a predisposition in general.  if that makes me such a horrible person for thinking it... so be it.  i can live with my faults.  it's unfortunate that others cannot accept their own faults as well but prefer to lash out against those who point them out.

Good. I am glad that is only

Good. I am glad that is only your personal experience! and again i am so happy that it was a temporary one, since it if had been an extended one, lord knows what nonsense you would have unleashed upon iranians, despite the fact that at the same time you have "respect" for their culture.

Of course we will contniue with this, but in a more appropriate manner and in another thread. This is a thread about another topic. You know, i am not in the habit of mixing things up. I will give you what you NEED to hear somewhere else. Trust me:)

KouroshS - sorry

Well, sorry for not agreeing with my comment. I can assure you, everything I wrote there, is true, based on personal experience.  

It is what it is. Instead of embarking on your thin-skin tirade, why don't you write me, which part of my comments to JoeL don't you agree with it?. Go ahead and write. We will take it from there.

Why Is The Truth So Hard To Face?

Why do some of you have such a difficult time admitting that you harbor negative predispositions towards Jews?

When you refer to them, there's always a "qualifier". It's a Persian Jew, an Iranian Jew, a Jewish person that you know.

Kalimi this, joohoodi that.

Same thing with someone who is Baha'i.

It's as if anyone who is not Moslem is saddled with an adjective, or a descriptive, something to deliberately separate them from the mainstream. A quasi "Separate But Equal" mentality.

Do you think you're fooling anyone with this? Do honestly believe that the undercurrent of prejudice isn't blatantly obvious, even to the most casual observer?

Nonsense on top of nonsense

Mehdi mazloom.

Well. Gee. Thanks for truly putting your money where your mouth is and really making it clear for us that you respect "their" culture. frankly, I can not but sense a huge, huge level of cunning-ness, coming from your side. It is so hilarious that you think of yourself as an "insider" merely for living in tehran (are you sure that is where you lived?) for a measley few years LOOOOL. what a ...and then on top of that you feel free to give advice to someone who has already been there and seen things for himself.
So... You are an Israeli-American (a Non-iranian), yet you have Iranian family members?? Is this even possible? Wow. this must be a new cultural trend nowadays, right?

What an amazing individual you are!

Joe-L

Amid all the kosse' sherri (non-sense in farsi) being spewed by the others on this thread, indeed, it is refreshing to read comments from a well traveled and open minded American like you here on this forum.

As I said, I definitely understand and share with you those wonderful attributes from the Iranian people. Their hospitality is unmatched anywhere around the world.  BUT you see!, you are foreigner, and have  not had the opportunity to witness, and moreover experience that art of gamesmanship which they play with each other.

Although I am an Israeli & American, I speak their farsi language (No read or write), lived for few years in Tehran. Like the famous saying goes. If you look like a duck, walk like duck, and speak like a duck - you are a duck. What I am stressing here, once I (used to) behave like them when in their company, then they would think I am kho-de-muni (one of them), and lay on me all their games of social and cultural  hierarchy.

Joe, you really have to be an "insider" to experience that elaborate game of ta'raoff. Essentially it is all about pretentious, and put up an act of caring. Once you will be familiar with  it, and see through their cunning (muzzi), then it will be clear.

With  all due respect to their cultural, I am so fed up with it played by my Iranian family members, that anytime I hear an Iranian refers to me with "Ghorban" (Sacrifies), or "Azziz zam" (my dear), or "joon-em" (my life), I cut through the chase, and make it clear, "I am not one of yours".,

My advise for you is watch them when they communicate with each other. It is facinating to watch their body language, the eye contact, the forced smile and the kiss on  the cheek. It will make you day.

All the best. I do hope you had enjoyed your visit to Israel. 

Fishie

As much respect I hold for you and your[Azzizie] I must show my utter disappointment of your statement when you say Iranians are predisposed to Antisemitism.

Just because people disagree and criticize Israeli policies they automatically become Anti Semite? Isn't this types of attitude the root cause of the problem in ME? 

It is utter shame for  a brilliant person such as yourself to make such a hateful remark.

Enough said

-YT

so sad

so sad that a conference like this was ruined by opportunists and extremist in BOTH sides.

However for US to boycott this whole conference does in fact reflect same old Bush policies that Mr. Obama has been following. If human right violations of countries such as IR regime, China and etc are mentioned and brought up, why shouldn't it mention anything about Israel?

The entire purpose of this meeting was overshadowed by hooligans in both sides. What happened to free speech?

I suppose it is called free speech only when we like the content? And what ever happened to civility. Are we so lost in our dark desires to get a point across that we can not even agree to disagree on most fundamental values of humanity, and that is we are all given birth right to speak our minds without any hindrance.I am of course referring to the ugly name calling and childish innuendos in these threads. Grow up kids

This does not set a good precedence by US to boycott the conference just to feed the insatiable thirst in part of Israel to carry on their repressive policies in ME.

Unbeknown, all this did was to make Ahmadinejad to look like a hero. Thanks Israel, He needed this boast tow months before the election. ;-) I am certain he will send some [Gaz] as token of his appreciation to the responsible parties in AIPAC. [another WINK]

-YT