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God forgive them

Chaos and some girl screaming "Allah Akbar in the background."    Let's all regress, shall we?  This kind of Islam wants to censor THE WHOLE GODDAMN WORLD.  This is more dangerous than I think anything that exists.  Didn't the founding fathers of this nation (America) leave Europe to get the hell away from people telling them how they had to believe/live?   Oh that it would happen within Islam, too--that Muslims WOULD RISE UP and say ENOUGH OF THIS RIDICULOUS CENSORSHIP and VIOLENCE in the name of God!!!  Few things make me more upset than this kind of tyranny...can you tell?

marjaneh

i liked many points in your long comment.

didn't know that about turing.

and rapprochement and reconciliation are essential.

Veiled Prophet of Khorassan,

Let's hope that we are both somewhat wrong...

Most people would rather die than think: in fact, they do so. – Bertrand Russell

As The Famous Philosopher Rodney-King Once Said

Can't we all just get along?

Marjaneh

Attacking someone physically  for a cartoon (for goodness' sake, a cartoon!) in Sweden is beyond stupid and a criminal act. 

And mark my words: with the deepening recession across Europe, such behaviour of Political Islam will no longer be tolerated. Not by law-abiding Muslim EU citizens either. If they continue, there will be some very ugly scenes very soon. 

That is a very good point which the Islamists are missing. The world specially Europe with the exception of England is in no mood for this. They are looking for excuses to throw out immigrants. The Islamist shenanigans are not going to be tolerated. They simply provide the most  right wing anti immigrants with ammunition. Those nations will one by one just kick these guys right back home. Then they can punch each other and burn their own towns not those of Sweden. 

The Islamist violence is totally stupid and self defeating. But then if they were smart they would not be violent in the first place. Law abiding Mulims in turn will distance themselves from this fools as wel. Just to be able to survive.

@Obama and @Raoul1955

Obama, I disagree and I shouldn't have indulged your comments about the "honour of your mother". You are now mixing up different concepts of self-defence ( including offence) - sovereigh state, individual dignity etc. , of which the reactions are understandable within countries of lawlessness and corrupt judiciary, in which the individual's rights are not protected. But that does not necessarily make them justifiable nor justified.

In my book what is admirable and honourable is for example the actions of those Iranian youths who stood in front of the basij to prevent others from harming them, and in effect upholding their by far superior moral standards and their pacifist movement. Or another example, those friends and families of victims of terrorist bombings in both US and UK, including Iranian nationals/and of origin, who  called for peace and no retaliations, in their grief and empathy towards others. 

Or those Israeli and Palestinians who regulary march for peace, but don't make the headlines.

Those acts are honourable, admirable and courageous. (To me.) It is using the more acceptable human emotions: mercy, pity, empathy, sympathy, kindness, altruism etc. of which we all for short.

Attacking someone physically  for a cartoon (for goodness' sake, a cartoon!) in Sweden is beyond stupid and a criminal act. 

And mark my words: with the deepening recession across Europe, such behaviour of Political Islam will no longer be tolerated. Not by law-abiding Muslim EU citizens either. If they continue, there will be some very ugly scenes very soon.

They could have drawn a cartoon of the cartoonist! But oh no, attack the man for an attempt at humour and diffusion.

To Raoul 

I know that you know this, but...

The fundamental difference is that e.g. the US Constitution and Bill of Rights is recognized as being subject to responsible subjective  interpretation, as it is man-made (and heralded as such) and not an absolute moral truth. 

What religious lunatics continue to try to assert is their claim of an absolute objective moral truth, which of course any sane person (usually at the age of four) knows does not exist!

In the U.S. you are lucky.You can take action against the malicious lunatics who e.g. try to eradicate Alan Turing from the school syllabus in Texas, because he was gay!

Of course, those loons in Sweden and elsewhere,

well, it simply doesn't occur to them to use existing laws, but are hell-bent on destroying a society with civilized and civilizing aspirations.

Apologies for the length of this post...(again...)

Marjaneh [insert:some deliciously clever title]

Most people would rather die than think: in fact, they do so. – Bertrand Russell

Honor the islamic style

Islamic Middle Easterners view 'honor' first and foremost as being a 'thingy' that resides in the vaginas of their female family members.  Their 'men' feel the necessity to 'defend' anything that 'offends such 'honor' by shedding blood!!! That is why we see those who have had exposure to Islamic value system to [routinely] kill their daughters, mothers, wives, or sisters for using their bodies not in accordance with islamic/arabic regulations.
Two countries officially kill women for offending the 'family honor' by using their bodies as they wish.  Saudis behead women and Iranians stone them.  Although many other Islamic nations such as Afghanistan and Pakistan do sanction the killing of females by male relatives for 'dishonoring' their families.
They also feel 'offended' when their leaders, prophet, imams, ideologies are criticized or mocked.
Perhaps if Islamic folks replaced their 'honor' from being that 'thingy' residing in the vaginas of their family members to individual liberty, personal freedom, and individual’s ability to express her/his opinions and thoughts even those expressions that are very 'offensive' to others, we would be not be witnessing such savagery solely because of someone mocking a leader, prophet, etc.
Observing such behaviors reminds us of how [inherently] superior the Western value system is [compared] to the Islamic value system.

VPK

You are a person I respect on this site, but I think if more people showed disgust at this type of Hate we would be a better world. To look away and pretend that the person making these type of Hate is OK-ish is wrong just because they read books. Mullahs read books but they are not OK people. We need to stand up more for what is right, it is stressful I know (I have been called many names) but I cannot turn a blind eye. I like free speech but think Hate Speech is not OK. I leave you with respect and love.

Gavazn

make fun of the hate speech don't ban it. Sure we should speak against it. I am sickened by that kind of hate speech myself. I won't ban it but I don't like it and I most definitely will express my disgust at it. Don't confuse the two.

On the other hand I think our problems are due to other things not this. Our problems are due to IRI and a false belief that religion leaders were going to be "pure" and "honest" and bring us property. That somehow if we put a Mullah in charge God was going to protect us. Wrong: the Mullahs are as corrupt as anyone and we get stuck with them. 

Why do more people say something to stop Hate?

//204.232.242.254/main/blog/covenant/bahaullah

//204.232.242.254/main/blog/covenant/baha-garden-ridvan

Perhaps we would not be in the same dreadful society in Iran if more people would stand up against this type of offensive HATE material and look the other way. "Not our problem".  Why do people say "jan" to people who support this type of Hate material and are connected to it?

I understand

honor and I stand up for Iran. I just don't see it having to do with beating up some jerk with a big mouth. I know my mother in an honorable woman and I am proud of her. No person saying anything else will made a difference. If some one said Madar J**** to me it would be a lie and I know it and anyone who knows my mother knows it. That person would have proved they are an a liar and a moron. I don't need to beat them up because they would be the laughing stock of all the people who know us.

Regarding Iran I I have and will defend Iran in the way I do best. Through logic; reason and writing. The Pen is Mightier than the Sword.

Obama, imagine you punch someone to defend your family. The guy loses his teeth and presses charges. You go to jail and get hit with a big fine. Who is left to defend your family or to provide for them? There is more than one way to defend your honor. 

Fighting should be reserved for when these is no other way. Like when Saddam attacked Iran. Not any time some big moths says rude thing.

Difference of opinion on boundaries

“it NEVER gives ANYONE the right to become VIOLENT.” – totally agree.

“Its also amusing how people here on this thread  do not understand the concept of freedom of speech  and make up excuses and limits on freedom of speech in the US that simply do not exist. “ – being patronising does not make you right. We do, but just do not agree with your boundaries. It does not give you the right to act superior and attempt to put us down. Some of the comments to Abermand were unfair and personal. He made good points. 

“There is nothing you can do to keep others from saying what they want. About your prophet ot anyone. You better get used to it or become the joke of the world. No wonder Muslims have such a bad reputation.  “ – actually there is. Perhaps in the US your boundaries are wider than Europe and Hate Speech is accepted. But that does not necessarilty make it right.

And VPK, I also have been disgusted by how bahai prophets are being disfigured and used to provoke Bahais on this website and show Hate . You wrongly are making me out to be a Muslim honour person. I have defended bahais (though I was born Muslim) and showed that I do not approve of such insulting behaviour. But I do not see others doing that, it is only the same handful of people every time.

//iranian.com/main/blog/iranvataneman/bahais-are-not-part-islam

He has taken out a part where he said "if enough people cared about Bahais in Iran they would not be persecuted. But the fact that they remain silent means they are irrelevant." This is a comment I never forget. People who supported Iranvataneman's blog are being addressed as "jan" by the same people who support Hate Speech or accept it. Why is that?

Those who don't understand HONOR, would never fight for Iran!

They are the ones who run away, when an enemy wants to take over, or they just invite them in! I guess, the ones with honor and love for country are the ones who have saved Iran all these centuries! If you don't have it in you, we cannot make you understand what true loyalty is! Learn from Takhti!

اسلام نژاد پرست‌ترین ایدئولوژی دنیا است

بفرمائید بخوانید که امام حسین درباریه برتری نژاد عرب نسبت به ایرانیها چی‌ گفته. 

//iranian.com/main/blog/khers-1

great comment from Huff post:

If your religion calls upon you to, after your evening meal, to take a ball-peen hammer & clout yourself over the head a dozen times with in before dessert... FINE.

That said.... the concept of FREE SPEECH is SACROSANCT.... an UNALIENABLE RIGHT... & no matter HOW offended one might be by another's speech... or their DRAWINGS, PAINTINGS, SCULPTURES.... or their MUSIC, their, BOOKS, or any other SYMBOLIC NONVIOLENT actions that one might use to EXPRESS themselves... it NEVER gives ANYONE the right to become VIOLENT.

The people who attended this lecture were WRONG to try to attack Lars Vilks.. but they do NOT represent the nearly TWO BILLION Muslims worldwide (nearly one in four of ALL people).. the VAST majority of whom want to live in PEACE..

Darveesh: That was Juan

Darveesh: That was Juan Cole's blog title so I used it. There is also a book called good muslim, bad muslim by an Indian or Pakistani author, which is great read.

The Divine Manifesto

"We SHOULD be offended, when..." Richard Dawkins at UC Berkeley

Most people would rather die than think: in fact, they do so. – Bertrand Russell

Maybe it's time for another demonstrative video :-)

Did you hear any fuss about this one? Head butts?  Death threats?  .........

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLKk00OYKhU

This one is care of DK.   Thanks DK. 

Well Stated VPK

This "honor" stuff is a bunch of non sense. If you recall, about 10 years ago in New York, we had paintings of Jesus made from human shit displayed in a Brooklyn art museum. Did you see anyone getting killed? Did you see people issuing death sentences to the artist?

Its just pure garbage this honor stuff. I blame this on the immature and uneducated Muslim religious leaders who do not understand freedom, don't want freedom and are afraid of it. 

Its also amusing how people here on this thread  do not understand the concept of freedom of speech  and make up excuses and limits on freedom of speech in the US that simply do not exist.

@Obama Are you "O.K."?

" Anytime, someone would argue with me, and used the word MAADAR
........  I punched him in his mouth! As a former boxer, I ended up
breaking many teeth, and couple of jaws, and four noses! My mom is my
most precious thing in this world! She is my ultimate honor!"

And your Mother's "ultimate honor" is hinged on what some nit-wit says. And a few broken teeth and jaws and noses will make your mother more honourable.Wow!

Are you serious?

And by the way, there is plenty of "Jewish humour". Tons of it. And funny too.

The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. – Bertrand Russell

If the

only way people can protect their "honor" is by acting like children. Then they have bigger problems than their honor. 

Guys, this is very instructive. There is nothing you can do to keep others from saying what they want. About your prophet ot anyone. You better get used to it or become the joke of the world. No wonder Muslims have such a bad reputation. 

Regarding Jews and Christians the media is filled with jokes about their prophet. The left wing blogs are constantly making fun of Jesue by calling him Jeebus. They make fun of Moses. I don't see Jews and Christians going insane over it. This is a matter of maturity which unfortunately many Muslims lack. Shame on people whose idea of honor is killing or beating someone who made a painting. You are only discrediting yourselves.

The more you act like this; the more fun people will make. Nex they are going to start deporting Muslims because "they are violent". Do you want this to happen?

and there's honour, that pandora's box

i agree with obama that some people are very sensitive to 'honour'. this concept i'm sure is grasped in a very different way in sweden, i presume (i may be stereotyping, sorry): i can't imagine a swedish person punching someone if they imply something about his mother. i haven't heard of many swedish honour killings either. why get violent about it? if there is a cultural gap, maybe it's not malice? a counterexample would be the mondial, when honour lost france the victory because of zidane's reaction to the italian player saying something about his mother, i believe it was. that probably was malice, because in the italian culture that's just not done.

how do 'honour' and humour combine? can they?

Marge

you really have a chip on your shoulders; this hate is not all healthy.

Regarding Abarmard he speaks for himself. I don't need an interpreter to know what he said. It was pretty obvious and untrue. However I prefer his writing to your hate filled post about Jews. Nevertheless freedom of speech protect your post.

Your career & life would be ruined, if THEY lable U anti-semite!

What's the difference here? The difference is they got the power all over the government and everything in between, so they kick your ass so badly, so no body would ever finds out what the zionist mafia (JDL, Anti defamtion league, AIPAC and so on) do to people, governments, and businesses! They don't do it in front of the camera!

However, these moslems don't have the same power, so they react like this which is called uncilized! Isn't it uncivilized to insult others beliefs?

Questions: 1. Why is this guy after mohammad and moslems? 2. why sewden allows these arabs in, in the first place? (They are fucking us europe. kick them out!)  3. could it be the author is actually pissed at his governemnt for allowing them in the country in the first place, so he is using a diversion strategy?  

I understand how it can happen. If you love and honour your mother, or dad, and you see someone for personal reason insults them in front of you. Do you just sit there and watch, or do you react?

I can only speak based on my own youth exerience. Anytime, someone would argue with me, and used the word MAADAR ........  I punched him in his mouth! As a former boxer, I ended up breaking many teeth, and couple of jaws, and four noses! My mom is my most precious thing in this world! She is my ultimate honor!

Mohammad is their honor! If this guy knows that he is disrespecting them when he trashes mohammad, then why is he keep insulting mohammad? Is he doing it to get these guys mad? Since when it is ok to insult people's religions? If he is that stupid, or asking for it, then he gets what he desreves. Actually, he got away from it very cheaply! He is indeed lucky!

I'd say, kick out all these arabs who are trashing seweden, and kick out this guy's ass for being so stupid!

an observation from a newbe

poster writes: "What I don't understand is why Good Muslims deeds are never recognized in the corporate media."

Is that like a good obedient ne@ro as opposed to a bad one?

.

//thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/04/29/hous...

vpk

as to your previous comment, point 2 (on distinguishing between a muslim or a swede): i don't see muslims making fun of muhammad, but i see lots of jews making fun of god, or even doing holocaust humour (was it coen brothers?, i no longer remember). most jewish humour is based on auto-satire (larry david, woody allen, et al.), but also omid djalili for example, perhaps less explicitly. i'm not an expert on this.

this is relevant a fortiori to your latest comment. all this stuff was dealt with in shazde's blog: the nose, the circumcision, the shiksa, everything. lots of documentation of it being mainstream. what about the simpsons' visit to jerusalem, and the tour guide and everything. this is cartoon, not movie.

most people can tell if there is malice and incitement or pure humour. 

some people have more self humour than others.

I think Abarmard meant to say that

it's illegal in the USA to state the obvious about Israel's parasitic status to the tax payer. You will be labelled an anti-semite and hounded by various organizations such as the ADL. I don't know about laws, but the Jews have a very strong arm to protect Jewishness or Jewish criticism. Even if you are Jewish, you have to understand how dangerous this is. They also use the holocaust in basic political discussions. it's sick.

Draw a jewish

what total BS. Monty Python Life of Brian made plenty of jokes about "Big Nose" Jews. I have seen it many times in USA. Fine it was not a drawing it was a movie.