Anyway

Farsi Language

I fully agree with those who defend true Farsi language. As a matter of fact, the whole world has become rootless. Nobody use the language of Adm and Eve anymore.

Navaadeh Ferdowsi !

WELCOME TO THIS SITE!...........LOL

P.S.     I know what I will do in the future Iran!

I would have a job as a translator for most Iranians returning home!

Meegee nah? just go to any Iranian gathering and listen to people around you!!!  

Ebi Jan,

Ebi Jan,
Please continue being the voice of
reason and the source of info
in the linguistics division
and any other division you can
participate In.

Thank you.
N

Dear Ebi, Very

Dear Ebi,

Very informative.

Thank you so much.

Best wishes
Cameron

یادداشتی کوتاه

از قرن هجده میلادی که " فردیناند دو سسور  " اولین پایه‌های زبان شناسی مدرن را بنا نهاد تا قرن حاضر،همیشه بین زبان شناسان در این مورد که آیا تغییر زبان گفتاری مردم را " پیشرفت " یا " پس رفت " زبان بنامند; بحث وجود داشته و دارد ! آنچه که اکثر قریب به اتفاق آنان بر آن صحه گذاشته اند این است که آن را "تغییر کاربرد و معنی واژه " یا به عبارتی : "  Shift of meaning & application of a word" بنامند.

با دانش ناقصم در این زمینه، اکثر مطالب بیان شده از طرف دوست نادیده آقای " کامران باتمانقلیچ "، را میتوان با نگاهی به برخی از کتابهای زبان شناسی تایید نمود; البته به غیر از استفاده ایشان از کلمه "Progress"، که پیشتر علت آن را خلاصه وار توضیح دادم.بر همین منوال است تایید نوشته دوست عزیز  " نادر " در زمینه کاربرد واژه " عجم " در طول تاریخ.

بهترین مثال در این زمینه، واژه " گبر/ GABR " میباشد که پس از استیلای اعراب بر ایران به هموطنان زرتشتی اطلاق میشد و هنوز نیز در برخی نقاط ایران میشود.اصل این واژه از زبان آرامی است که توسط کاتبان آرامی دربار هخامنشی ( جزو حدود هشتصد واژه آرامی که وارد زبان فارسی باستان شده اند و آنها را " هزوارش Huzvaaresh" مینامند ) وارد زبان ما شده است. از این واژه به جای واژه " مرد/mard " استفاده شده است،تغییر کاربرد و معنی، آن را  کاملا" متفاوت کرده است و صدها سال است که دیگر کاربرد تحقیر گونه عربی آن از بین رفته است !.

همانگونه که در نوشته خود, فارسی یا انگلیسی !؟ ,و در جایی دیگر در پاسخ دوستی نوشتم واژه ، " آتوسا " هم مانند  " کامرون "، صورت یونانی اسامی ایرانی میباشد.

با نگاهی به ادبیات منظوم فارسی، میتوان صدها نمونه از این مقوله را یافت.

اگر دوستان عزیزی مایل به بررسی دقیق تر در این زمینه میباشند ، منابع زیر میتوانند مفید واقع شوند :

1- تاریخ زبان فارسی : پرویز ناتل خانلری.

2- در آمدی بر زبان شناسی : کورش صفوی.

Ajab, Rajab, Vajab, Ajam,

Ajab, Rajab, Vajab, Ajam, nim Vajab, etc. all have the same root in Farsi, Parsi, Persian, etc.

Chera hameh ma(be joz yek te'dade

Chera hameh ma(be joz yek te'dade ma'dood, keh shayad aksarriat-e ghaayeb bashand - keh omidvaram injoor bashad) hameh mesl khoroos jangi beh ham miparim? Chera.....?

Reply to 'Farsi Lover'

Dear Farsi Lover,

Not that I am paranoid, but somehow I got the impression that you meant me when you were referring to “some self-appointed experts with dubious character”.

To being with, I am no expert in linguistics and never claimed expertise in anything. The day I would call myself expert in anything is the day that I have grown a tail! And dubious? Well … have no idea what gave you that impression, but then again, I would not expect much of someone who expresses him/herself this way about someone else unknown to them this way.

However, if it is of any interest to you, you can always read works by prominent scholars in this field such as Noam Chomsky and alike.

Secondly, please do allow me to point out that the very great Iranian poets and writer/philosophers that you are mentioning (Saadi, hafez etc.) were all in tune with their own time. You can find so many Arabic words in their work which had been assimilated to the daily lives of our people – which again is a reflection that they were for progress and not fretting what happening. It is true that Ferdosi, did revive the Persian language, but his attempt was more of defiance than any other thing, as during the Arab rule Iranians were to write in Arabic (as Indians had to write in English) and our language was being pushed into oblivion. We all owe Ferdosi. However – again – to introduce slang into Farsi such as this work by our friend demonstrates, is of no evil … especially if they are culturally rooted.

Of course you are welcome to use ancient language in your daily life and/or when you communicate. That would be just funny.

In any event, really it doesn’t matter what you or I think. The fact is that change in a language happens whether or not you like. And most often than not, it starts with slang.

Just a little advice … in the future, if you really want to make a point and have a constructive point to make or wish to conduct a discussion and/or dialogue, I would recommend that you refrain from being rude. That will not help … and all you do is that you give an impression of having a dubious character with no self-respect, as no person who does not respect others, can respect him/herself.

Have a good one,

Written

Cameron

Ferdowsi

Loved this video and laughed so hard. I miss hearing this kind of talk for so long. In my opinion, Ferdowsi would have never used the word Ajam as it is a deragetory word. More so AJAB is a better fit than AJAM.

Not Progression but Putrefaction

We should be ashamed of ourselves to have turned the language that the likes of Ferdowsi, Saadi, Hafez, Rumi and many others worked so hard to prefect and polish, into a vernacular that is like a septic tank full of floating feces.

And there are some dubious characters and self-appointed experts here who call this "progression"!! For the want of a better word, I'd call it Putrefaction

Correction - the reply was for 'Critic' and not for 'P'

Dear 'Critic'

2nd Reply to 'P'

Dear ’P’,

I had expected a more sensible reply. But I was wrong. Instead of addressing the issue at hand, you indulge in personal attack … I do understand that when logics fails, then the emotions take over.

Now as far as the name ‘Kamran and Cameron’ goes, the name Kamran/Cameron is a an old Persian name. During the Roman wars, the Romans took much after the Persians. (as did the crusaders from the Islamic culture centuries after). For instance the Persian women were highly desired by the Romans. The very Christmas Tree you see in Christianity is a an old Persian symbol so is the star on top of it – our very own ‘Setarye Mehr’. All this short intro. to point out that they also used Persian names.

The name Kamran also was used by Romans (meaning the lucky one…alt. the one who attains his dreams … Kam + ran). The name travelled thought he Roman Empire all the way to Britannia. It survived in Scotland and that is why you see many Scots called Cameron. Although still in Iran Kamran/Cameron is used only as a first male name, whereas in the Anglo-Saxon culture it is used as male/female, first name and surname all the same.

Now… one of the characteristics of the Iranian culture over the past 2-3 millenniums is their adaptability. If the spelling of a name prevents certain prejudice and facilities progress then one would be a ‘Kam Aghl’ to not recognize this and take advantage of it.

That is not to become a ‘Michael’ instead if Mohammad!!!

As far as your comment in your first posting that many who have lived outside Iran may not remember a particular word and thus use a foreign one in the middle of a fully Farsi constructed sentence, well then I have three things to say about that.

1- if you have lived outside Iran, and still regard yourself a lover of our language and culture and take pride, then the least thing one expects from you (anyone)is that you try to keep up and at least not lose what you knew when you left that country.
2- If you communicate in a language and can not express yourself efficiently, use a synonym, instead of throwing in a foreign word.
3- People who use the word ‘Bag’ instead of ‘Kisse’ (a word that hardly can be forgotten) are the ones who a) do it because they think it is chic and b) suffer from a mental laziness.

As for myself, I have been outside Iran for the past 25 years. I only completed the 9th grade over there, but since then have made a conscious effort to read books in my mother tongue. I do admit that my Farsi has detoriated considerably, still when I speak Farsi, I am very conscious to speak FARSI, and if a particular word slips my mind, then I either try to find a synonym or … just describe my intention in other words.

Now that you have received a reply to your personal attack, I do look forward to a less emotional and more logical respond to the issue at hand which is ‘Language’… that is if you have any.

Wish you a great weekend,
Cameron

Reply to 'P'

I fully understand your point but I must beg to differ.

The changes that we see may sound trashy and cheap NOW . But for the future generations it will be normal and part of their lives.

You have to recognize the fact that language - as a form of expression (this also goes for music and all other forms of arts) - is most often NOT developed by the intellectual elite – although of course they do contribute to such progress proportionally – but rather by the average man/woman. So, it is not surprising that verbs are bent and even punctuation, sounds and spellings changes. The Modern Persian, as for the modern Greek along with many other languages across the globe is a testimony that it is the people on the street and in their social gatherings that are responsible for the major changes, which has evolved to the language they use to day and not in 2000 BC.

Such changes are directly related to the changes in the way of lives of people in the context of their transforming social structures, attitudes and events that shape their future. If the language does not change at the same space, then there will be a discrepancy resulting in the collapse of conveying such changes, not only within the society, but also to other societies and cultures.

I am sure Shakespeare would turn in his grave to hear many words used today in the English language, as for sure, during his time, such vocabularies would have been considered vulgar. And yet, you see many modern poets and writers using words that did not exist or at least was not used a couple of centuries ago.

Another good example is the English spoken in India. Having worked with many Indians and associated with them, they still use the type of English used in the 18th century. Why? Because the English language – although is the academic language in India – is not the common man’s language in India and thus, it has not developed as much as in the US, England and other purely English speaking societies.

I do tend to agree with you that based on principles of what constitutes ‘Beauty’, it does sound a bit trashy. But I rather have this, than no progress at all.

Hope I have managed to further explain my view.
Cameron

Cameron or Kamran?

to Cameron Batmanghelidgi:

On the one hand you suggest to keep Farsi, free from foreign words and on the other instead of calling yourself Kamran, you call yourself Cameron!!! As Ferdowsi whould say:

توبه گرگ رو باور کنم یا دم خروسو؟

brilliant work!

Great job! Thank you Bozorgmehr. By the way, as someone mentioned too, the artist has purposely said "Ajab" instead of "Ajam". Ferdousi is being sarcastic here and he regrets the 30 years of suffering to revive the Parsi language being spoken in such a way by Iranian youths.

simin

ajab ?? ajam .. ajab...a....

سلام به همه دوستان!
بابا .. كسي كه اين ويديو رو ساخته .. اشتباهي نكرده.. بلكه از قصد عجب و عجم رو تغيير داده.. دقت و تفكر هم لازم نداره..
يه مثال: پدري به بچه اش ميگه مثلا چه مي دونم فلان كار رو نكن .. درست نيست.. بچه ميگه اوكي! ولي بعدش ميره دوباره همون كار رو مي كنه .. پدر وقتي ميفهمه ميگه: اين همه بهت گفتم اين كارو نكن.. عجب به حرفم گوش دادي!! روشن شد؟ حالا به مثالم نخندين .. ولي منظور رو كه رسوند!! آي هوپ..

to -->Nader

First of all.. I didn't lashed out at anyone!! Its funny ,if there is anyone who is mad in here .. it must be you, as you didn't even get what I meant my dear..
I guess you were so furious while reading my comment that failed to understand what I meant !! let alone understanding the reason of changing the words of what ferdowsi had said!!
so ?? This time you better go back, and read my comment again .. once .. twice or maybe more??!!THEN WATCH THE CLIP!
No high IQ needed !! :-)

For all to read- Wiki-Persian

واژه عجم
درطول تاریخ کاربردهای متعددی داشته است و به چم مختلفی بکار رفته است. دربرهه‌ای از تاریخ به کسی که زبان عربی را متوجه نمی‌شد اعجمی می‌گفتند که این لقب در دوره موالی بیشتر به ایرانیان اطلاق می‌شد.برای اولین باردر دوره بنی امیه کاربرد تحقیر آمیز کلمه عجم برای مترادف فارس و مجوس بیان شده‌است.اما امروزه کاربرد معنای تحقیر آمیز"زبان کند(الکن)" در ادبیات عرب جایگاهی ندارد. البته هنوز هم در بعضی از شهرهای خلیج فارس بعضی اعراب سنی تندرو و یا عده‌ای قوم گرایان، کلمه عجم را بویژه به شکل "اعجمی " برای تحقیر بر ضد شیعیان و ایرانیان بکار می‌برند.کلمه عجم قبل از اینکه به این معنی بکار برود قرنها فقط برای پارسها بکار می‌رفت کما اینکه امروزه در خوزستان، اعراب هنوز هم به فارس عجم می‌گویند و این عبارت ----- نه تنها تحقیر آمیز نبود بلکه موجب افتخار هم بود ----- بطوری که بعضی از عربها حتی در دوره جاهلی داستان‌های شکوه کسرایان عجم و ملک جم را با افتخار نقل می‌کردند[نیازمند منبع] سپس عجم در یک برهه از تاریخ فقط برای فارسها و مترادف پارسیان بکار گرفته می‌شد.[نیازمند منبع] بعدها بدلیل صرفی بودن زبان عربی جم و عجم به واژه‌های متعددی مانند معجم، عجمه و غیره تبدیل شد.

//fa.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D8%B9%D8%AC%D9%85

I don't believe Ferdowsi used this term in its drogatory format, but I could be wrong. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Parmis...

I guess it's you who needs to educate himself. It is exactly as I have described it. Also see below link provided by AnanA to see for yourself.

Next time do your homework before lashing out like a mad person...

PEACE to you to!

AnonA jan, thanks for posting the link.

Also, here is another meaning posted on net. In all, it is not a flattering phrase to use.

واژه عجم

درطول تاریخ کاربردهای متعددی داشته است و به چم مختلفی بکار رفته است. دربرهه‌ای از تاریخ به کسی که زبان عربی را متوجه نمی‌شد اعجمی می‌گفتند که این لقب در دوره موالی بیشتر به ایرانیان اطلاق می‌شد.برای اولین باردر دوره بنی امیه کاربرد تحقیر آمیز کلمه عجم برای مترادف فارس و مجوس بیان شده‌است.اما امروزه کاربرد معنای تحقیر آمیز"زبان کند(الکن)" در ادبیات عرب جایگاهی ندارد. البته هنوز هم در بعضی از شهرهای خلیج فارس بعضی اعراب سنی تندرو و یا عده‌ای قوم گرایان، کلمه عجم را بویژه به شکل "اعجمی " برای تحقیر بر ضد شیعیان و ایرانیان بکار می‌برند.کلمه عجم قبل از اینکه به این معنی بکار برود قرنها فقط برای پارسها بکار می‌رفت

Ajam: //www.farsilookup.

Ajam:
//www.farsilookup.com/p2p/seek.jsp?lang=fa&wo...

to --->Nader

Hi..

Its a shame that u didnt get why he says: AJAB instead of AJAM!!! I think you need to watch this clip once ..or twice or maybe more???!!!

anyway .. you also need to know what (ajam) means first, then say what u said ;-)

Respect !

on purpose says AJAB!

I think creator of this cartoon on purpose says AJAB!--I am sure he is educateed to know it is ajam. Ferdowsi is upset and questions at people around himself.

I like this work.

PERSIAN(as the language of the country)

I believe the word we are looking for is PERSIAN(as the language of the country) used in English!

Great piece of work!

Brilliant!

Brilliant!

Info

Ajam in Arabic means naadaan which Arabs refer to Iranians. Also they are still calling Iranians majoos means atashparast.
Send them more money, OK?

Reply to Cameron Batmanghlich's Comment "BRILLIANT"

I agree that the work is brilliant but I completely disagree with the statement that "this is proof that our language is progressing". Changing yes, progress no.
To the contrary, it shows how the language and the culture likewise has degressed. At least the Iranian's who've been outside of Iran for many years (20 years plus) use proper English/French/Spanish, etc... words in place of Farsi words they can't remember. That is far better than speaking slang. Sounds very trashy.

Thank you Ferdowsi for saving our language (PERSIAN).

I love Ferdowsi. He devoted most of his life to revive the Persian language by writing Shahnameh.

Great work, however, very important correction.

The actual poam should read:

"Basi ranj bordam dar in sal si. Ajam zendeh kardam bedin parsi."

Not, Ajab.

Ajam refers to a derogatory term used by  Arabs to describe Persians.

Ferdowsi very wisely and mockingly submits Ajam in his poem to rub it in their faces.

I LOVE this man. I think he is the greatest Iranian who ever lived (next to Dr. Mosadegh of course).  

Absolutely BRILLIANT!

Absolutely BRILLIANT!

Master Pierce!

Makes me want to take the first flight back home.

This is just a proof that our language is progressing. New words and expressions, although I wish that less foreign words would entered and used. But I guess, many back home think of throwing in a word or two in English is a sign of being chic and modern. Sad … but I have seen people living outside of Iran for a few years and for every ten words they use, at least two is in which ever new language they have learned.

I think this work also demonstrated how vibrant our people are.

Salam va dorood be tamame irooni ha dar ha koja ke hastan.
Cameron

Ferdowsi, the Persian hero.

We Iranians should not disrespect the work of the greatest PERSIAN poet" Ferdowsi" by infecting our wonderful Persian language with Arabic, Turkic, English.... words. Ferdowsi included in one of his verses:

"I suffered during these thirty years, but I have revived the Iranians with the Persian language; I shall not die since I am alive again, as I have spread the seeds of this language ..."

Parsi Raa Paas Dareem.