Current Events

The US could not maintain

The US could not maintain its military industrial complex, without a viable threat from somewhere.  It used to be USSR.  Now it is the regime.  The best thing that could happen to Iran, is if there was another country that took on the US more than the regime does. Let's say we had the Cubans go mad and get threatening.  Then you will see the difference.  For now the Ayatollahs are doing a great job of being public enemy number one.

Ali Mostofi

//www.alimostofi.com

Fair,

Awhile ago Abarmard started a controversial blog " Must build Bomb". Read my reply to his blog here.

//iranian.com/main/blog/abarmard/must-build-bombpage1    (scroll down and read both my replies )

Nuclear bombs are useless. They cost a lot, and i mean a LOT of money. And this is for a bomb that we will never use against our enemy. There are cheaper methods of deterrences available to us.  Read my reply in abarmard's blog. I agree with you that it will creat an arm race in the region. This also seems to be IR position as well.

Our oil industry is under heavy sanctions and coorporations are hesitant dealing with us due to US pressure. We can't attract investments because countries are afraid of US retaliating against their firms dealing with Iran. To be fair, we never offered juicy deals to oil companies either. The " buy back" payment method which is what we favour, is not very appealing for oil companies either. To make it worse, a quarter of our national income from exporting gas and oil ( 100 billion dollars ), is being used as energy subsidies for internal use every year. We are in bad shape here and must find cheaper and cleaner energy sources for internal usages.

Our gas sector is where most of government money was spent to layout and build extensive gas pipe networks. IRGC corp was instrumental in the construction of these networks all over Iran. Iran has one of the most extensive gas networks in the world which connect Europe through Turkey and India through Pakistan. There are also plans to connect China to our network as well. We are mainly competing with Russia ( an unfortunate competition for us ) and it seems Russia has the european market locked up while Iran can count on emerging markets like india and china. The future looks bright here. We have several factors including our geography in our favour.

Without getting to the usefulness or viability of Nuclear energy in Iran, we must first accept that nuclear energy is a legal right for any nation. Its very clean and a hell of a lot cheaper than solar or wind energies when producing the same amount of energy. Its a perfect solution for a energy hungry country like Iran which its people don't want to pay more than a dime for using it. If properly implemented , Iran can position itself as the ultimate energy exporting country in the world in the next decade. We can start selling fuel rods for other power plants. I think industrialization of our enrichment facilities can only point to this reality in the making. There are no other justifications for spinning 7000 centrifuges. And this is where the problem lies. Iran is tapping in to a market which was the domain of few super powers. A very profitable market for those who possess the know hows.

This is how i see it.

Then we agree

To control the economics of the war is. We can achieve this without spending billions of dollars on conventional weapons.

Under Iran's current defense plan, conventional weapons do not constitute a viable defense, and that is why it is clear that Islamic republic will use all types/whatever unconventional weapons as deterrent that it can get.  And that includes nuclear weapons. 

The problem is this creates an arms race and massive tension and brinkmanship, and playing with the lives of millions of innocent Iranians, all for something that Iran needs like a hole in the head- nuclear weapons.

Unless perhaps you could share for us what is the big gain here for Iran? Nuclear energy? Nuclear weapons capability? Meanwhile, how do you propose to develop Iran's civilian economy into a non-oil export dominated one, in which there are many jobs for many professionals and opportunities for Iranian brains to work and return to Iran? How do you propose to turn Iran into a significant global economic player which exports technology and manufactured goods in the 10's of billions of dollars?  Or at least into a country which can extract and refine its own oil for use by its own population, or to harness and export the gazillions of tons of natural gas that is being wasted every year while Russia and Qatar make a killing?

Or are these things just expendable and unimportant when compared to nuclear energy?

btw, AN's statements that you quoted were not illegal at all, a country
is perfectly within its rights to respond to threats (explicit or
implicit) by other parties as needed.  It is the other statements of AN
that are problematic, not these.

Anyway, it does not sound like we are about to agree on policy issues.  My main goal here was to set the record straight on the state of military industrial production in Iran pre 1979, and I am glad that we have that straight now. 

"NF:I want to thank you so"

I personally dont read this little west residing joojeh bassiji's page long kosso sher, let alone debate with him/her. but has he/she yet told you about the recent discovery of the "plot to terror ememe zaman" yet?

Fair,

What you are advocating in terms of adopting a responsible behavior has been tried unsuccessfully before. Politic is not about morality and being or playing it nice.

I believe the possibility of war with US peaked at the end of Khatami's administration and almost became a reality when Ahmadinejad ordered the IAEA seals to be broken on enrichment facilities. I remember i was following the news in horror everyday. (For the international community, what Khatami agreed too was IAEA new law for Iran and that was a complete freeze on our enrichment.)

Lets analyze these events a bit.

US had the perfect reason to attack while enjoying international support because it could argue Iran is in direct violation of IAEA agreement signed by the previous administration. US had close to 200 000 forces ready for battle in our gulf. Israel was on full alert. The neo cons were in power and openly advocating an attack. The US media was on board and pointing to possible targets in Iran.

Then Iran declared the following;

We will retaliate without mercy. We will target our enemies nuclear facilities. We will mine persian gulf. We will target countries which US attacks originated from. We will threaten US interests around the globe. We will attack US even if Israel goes at it alone. We will target other countries capabilities to export oil. ( All options are on our table too ).

Many of the above statements by Ahamdinejad's government were outright illegal. But so was US intension for war and desperate times calls for desperate messures.

Ahmadinejad never looked back ever since. While promoting dialogue with US , he never backed off from direct confrontation. This is exactly the same method used by US. It is the stick and carrot policy which they taught us in the first place and it seems to work very well when the sides are switched.

Buttom line;

We don't need an expensive conventional army when we know its uselessness when confronting a superior army. We need the capacity to inflict harm on our enemies economics. Hit them where it hurts. The death of 5000 US marine is not a priority in this doctorine. To control the economics of the war is. We can achieve this without spending billions of dollars on conventional weapons.

NF:I want to thank you so

No Fear

Yes, if as a country we choose a policy that puts us on a path towards direct confrontation with the US and Israel, NO conventional weapons program, in any combination of foreign and domestic components would give us the slightest chance, it is just simple economics and laws of physics.  For that, you need either to be very strategically aligned wth another superpower who has the means and the will to directly intervene on our behalf and attack the US and Israel (good luck in this post cold war world), or you have to have nuclear weapons, or both.  Also, your asymmetric warfare solution is even more meaningless, since it will make absolutely no difference in the other sides' capacities to conduct warfare.  What you are suggesting is to confront a guy with several guns with a knife, and that is just downright stupid and wreckless, and a sure recipe to get hundreds of thousands of innocent Iranians killed, and trillions of dollars of damge to Iran, most of which will take generations to recover from.

Even with this scenario, a few dozen Su-30's with properly upgraded and integrated avionics with a properly architected national early warning network would be quite affordable for Iran (1 billion is nothing compared to the dozens of billions that goes to IRGC for nothing), and would make it very hard for Israel to do a solo operation for example.  But the political climate that AN has created makes it impossible to even buy those planes from Russia, because he has invited pariah status onto Iran with his policies.

There are many leaders around the world of strategically important countries who act responsibly and move their country forward and compete with the US.  It is not a matter of getting in the US good books, it is a matter of not being blocked from the most basic economic and technological collaboration with other countries, which we suffer from today.  We cannot even buy a civilian airbus because we are under an embargo that is easy to justify.  The world looks at us and sees ridiculous behavior, and says of course, Iran is under embargo so let's think twice about dealing with them.  There is a lot of middle ground between open confrontation and antagonism with the US on one hand, and being the US's lap dog on the other.  In fact, very few countries on this planet fall into either of those categories, and Iran is one of them.  The rest of the countries are just trying to live their lives normally.

Q don't bore me

with more of your drivel.  Once again, you will notice that "independence" is in QUOTES (get some reading glasses). Since you seem to have severe cognitive difficulties, let me interpret that for you- you can think of it as "independence, whatever that means", since I was not the one to bring up the indpendence issue first in this thread.  I also clearly stated that for ANY kind of independence one needs to master technology, and so the discussion is about how to get to mastery of technology as quickly, efficiently, and effectively as possible.  But as usual you are trying to derail this discussion in another one of your ego trip tantrums.

And of course, you have failed to answer my very basic question about "what would you have done as president of the Q republic", proving once again you are only capable of saying "lengesh kon" and have no real solution. Once again, you have come up vey very empty my poor friend.

"seriously harm US interests around the globe"

I have no doubt that Iran would be leveled if attacked by US, but the asymmetric doctorine (sic) does have a good chance to seriously harm US interests around the globe and even cause a serious blow to its superpower image.

Is harming "US interests around the globe" a thinly veiled threat that IRI-sponsored terrorists will carry out acts of terrorism directed against the U.S.? The IRI and its terrorist proxies already have a long history of murders, bombings, and kidnappings directed against civilians abroad, including Americans (though not to the same extent as their atrocities inside Iran). I sincerely hope that law enforcement authorities in the U.S. and elsewhere (e.g. FBI, etc.) are keeping close tabs on institutions and individuals affiliated or sympathetic to the IRI. There is an enormous degree of free speech allowed in the U.S. and propagandizing on behalf of the IRI by West-residing IRI Groupies is protected speech; however, involvement and facilitating of terrorism is not.   

Fair,

If we presume that Israel and US are Iran's immediate threat, then even the SU 30s would not be as effective when facing World's largest airforce ( US airforce ) followed by the worlds second largest airforce ( US Navy ). At 50 million dollars each ( Buy just 20  SU30s from russia and you are a billion dollars in the hole ) , this would be a very costly mistake for Iran to see most of its airforce distroyed in the first few days of the war.

There are NO conventional solution to challenge the military supremacy of the US forces unless you think out of the box and adopt a different doctorine. Many of our recent military hardwares which are produced domestically, are an attempt to address this problem; specifically the US fifth fleet in our gulf.

I have no doubt that Iran would be leveled if attacked by US, but the asymmetric doctorine does have a good chance to seriously harm US interests around the globe and even cause a serious blow to its superpower image. This serves as a deterrence factor.

Sorry, I don't buy your "acting responsibly in the international arena" solution to get in US good books. To an economist or an US energy strategist what you wrote is meaningless. We have seen clowns who acted responsibly on the international stage while promoting dialogue. They got us nowhere.

Yawn... indeed

LOL. you know I use the term "blined by hatred" metaphorically, right? You seem to be literally suffering from it.

If we were to follow your recipe for "indpendence" in 1979, we would be reverse engineering biplanes from 1935, repainting them, and saying now we are self sufficient in building fighter planes. Of course, the only people that claim would be useful for would be undeducated idiots at home, as every professional military and military experts on the planet would be ridiculing us (like they do now). Sorry, but I think the the path that Pahlavi took is preferable to yours any day,

in English, this means Pahlavi took a different "path" / "recipe" to independence. If you're now saying he didn't do that, then, I guess you are capable of learning something, afterall.

laughs all around!

The world has changed No Fear

Technology is way more proliferated today than in the 1970's.  The processing power in your cell phone is more than that of Apollo 11 which went all the way to the moon for example. You can do so much more on your own today than you could have dreamed of in the 70's.  So for Iran to build small arms was a good first step, and to move on to the next steps it was necessary to do the things that were being done. Realize that as late as 1965 Iran had so little income it had very little money to invest, hence we need to have proper expectations.
So yes, we were doing things that were much more substantial, some might
argue way too ambitious. But the Shah made a strategic decision to get
these capabilities, so we were heading there.

The region in which we live has also changed dramatically.  We no longer face the spectre of a Soviet invasion, nor an Iraqi one. So no, I do not advocate at all to buy F35's and stop domestic technology development.  And no, I never ever (even for previous decades) define a military's capabilities by numbers of certain equipment, it is a much more complicated set of variables that we must consider.

I could go on and on about what I think is good defense industry policy for Iran today, it would take a long time.  But it would be neither the Shah's policy from the 70's (we don't need it anymore and have other choices) nor the IRI's policy of today (it is ineffective militarily).  It would be closer to a country like India, who does not kid itself that it can build its own indigenous fighter- but rather buys a pretty decent fighter like the Su-30 from Russia, and then by now has developed enough domestic expertise to develop its own avionics and weapons control suite (albeit with foreign partnerships).  So I would push for continued domestic production of low tech weapons (now there are many sources from which we can get this), augmented with high tech capability in some key areas like radar, early warning and command and control networks, etc.), and also foreign purchases, maybe not the F-35 but somethink like a Eurofighter with indigenous changes to the avionics, and adaptations to less standard weapons.

And no, none of this involves "subjecting ourselves to serve the will of US in the region". It just involves acting responsibly in the international arena.  We needed not be the Shah to have access to these options, a moderate  Islamic government like that of Bazargan (or even Khatami under certain conditions) would be able to achieve this.  But the current military status of Iran is unacceptable- most of our neighbors could attack us from the air or by land, and we could not engage them without making a fool of ourselves.  All we would be able to do would be lob some very inaccurate missiles into some of their symbolic targets and not cause significant damage- and that is if the Patriots/etc. don't intercept them.  We have a completely inadequate early warning system, that which we have is wide open to being destroyed easily, and even if we get the early warning we have no way of meeting the threat in a significant way.

And yes, I think it is silly for us to get nuclear energy unless we want to make a nuclear bomb.  We have huge natural gas reserves, not to mention solar potential which is all being wasted wasted wasted as we speak, and I don't want to see a Russian built unsafe nuclear reactor on a sesimic zone on the Persian Gulf, it is just downright wreckless.  Is that being a "good boy"?  No, it is just saying what makes sense for Iran.

How to win the war against windmills in 4 steps?

1. Replicate some crap from an outmoded technology;

2. Paint it with your colors;

3. Make use of photoshop to boost the ability of these self-maded craps;

4. Send some brainless basijis to fulfill the empty spaces on the net and think that you're the strongest nation in the universe.

... and voilà!

Fair,

Fair enough.

Lets say Iran did manufacture light arms and rifles during the pahlavi era.  Did we do anything more substantial in terms of a bit more sophisticated hardwares? I mean, don't get me wrong, the pahlavi's did upgrade Iran's military with expensive purchases ( billions of dollars in the 70s ), but still had very little to show for decades of being in power, in terms of manufacturing. 

 Am i wrong here?  Would you suggest we take the same route in Iran now and purchase F35s for 100 million dollars each and neglect research and investments on let say turbo jet engines ( used in our missile program )?  or aviation electronics? Guidance systems?

 Fair, your judgement on Iran's current military status is based on old and conventional standards like the numbers of Tanks or fighter jets. Do you still believe a modern army should be defined that way? ( Again, remember Iraq )

I have a hard time seeing your solution here.  Should we just subject ourselves to serve the will of US in the region?  Should we try to purchase expensive weaponary?  Should we just lay our heads down because of how miserable we are since we kicked shah out of Iran? Should we be good boys from now on and tell the whole world we don't want nucleasr energy?  Do you have a solution without considering who is ruling over Iran?

more drivel from Q, yawn

I never said Iran was independent then, and it certainly is not now either. I merely disproved the false statement by your fellow hezbollahis that Iran was not able to manufacture even a bullet in 1979.

So since I did not make such a statement, it is qurious how you even can claim I defined independence. For me, a country which needs others' technology to provide its own security and function economically is a dependent one. Even the US is "dependent" to a degree, and it is harder and harder to function "truly" independently in this world.

Now let us say that your recipe for "true"  independence were put into practice in the 1970's, and the government of Iran would have diversified its military suppliers.  Would you care to elaborate for the readers of this forum who those potential suppliers were in 1979?  And how any of them with any technology worth purchasing would have been less "puppet masters" than the US or other western countries?  Let us say that the imperial government were replaced by the Q republic with you at the head.  Would you like to specify  exactly which sources you would have chosen for defense technology (since Iran had none)?  Or would you just like to continue to say "lengesh kon" and whine that the policy was not "independent"?  In your answer, do consider the following:

1-The cold war was running full blast, we had no choice but to be aligned with the USSR or the US

2-Even if we kept quiet about everything, we had the USSR and Arab countries that desired to capture at least some of our territory. (unlike today that we have a choice of whether or not to fight Israel, and we choose to fight them)

3-Missile and other defense technology were not proliferated at all, and only a few sources of technology existed, and they were the superpowers.

Until you can answer these questions clearly, you might as well keep laughing. At yourself that is.

You really have a funny definition of "independence"

it is funny, in addition to being flawed, and of-course unfair.

How can you call any part of Shah's arms industry "independent" when in fact, none of it could be built without the 100% presence, engineering, parts, support and training from foreigners like UK and US?

The proof is in the pudding, if Iran was truly independent, it would be able to manufacture everything, even if UK and US puppet masters weren't helping. But that's exactly the (delusional) definition of independence that Shahollahi's love to use.

It really means "dependent"!!!

In fact, that's exactly what both USSR and the West/NATO did during the cold war, by design. Keep the militries of third world puppet-states dependent to control the governments. Iran was 'independent' just like Egypt,Turkey and Saudi Arabia are 'independent' today: the militay is owned and operated by the west and nothing can be accomplished without its blessing.

Had Shah truly pushed for real independence he would have kicked out the US advisors and diversified Iran's technology imports so that loss of political relations with any one country couldn't hurt it, but that's thinking way beyond what the puppet king was capable of.

Iran's missile industry today is not great compared to super-power standards, but it is 1000x more "independent" than any arms industry Iran has had in hundreds of years.

Thanks for making me laugh. hard!

You are very welcome

Vildemose. As time goes on, there is less and less memory and documentation of what went on before 1979, and more and more empty claims by those in power in Iran today, who would love to rewrite history.

OnlyIran- I am not sure about the tank manufacturing facility in Esfahan, but Iran was strategic partners with Vickers/Leyland of the UK, first as a customer for the Chieftain, one of the most advanced tanks in the world during its time, and its variant delivered to Iran was the Shir-1.  Iran participated in the development of the follow on Shir-2, over 1200 of which were to enter service with Iran, but was dropped by Iran after the revolution.  I would not be surprised at all if part of the plan was to build Shir-2's in Iran after the first batch.  The Shir-2 evolved into the Challenger, which remained the front line tank for the UK until even today, and was sold to many of Iran's regional rivals.  Today, Iran assembles by license the Soviet era T-72, which is inferior to most modern tanks in the region.  To give you an idea, the British army used Challenger tanks to engage Iraqi tanks (many of which were T-72's) in 1991, destroying 300 while suffering not even one loss.

Today Iran is surrounded by countries that have either Challengers, or the even more superior M1 Abrams tanks.

Fair Jaan

Wasn't there also a tank manufacturing facility near Esfahan before the revolution?

Thank you Fair for that

Thank you Fair for that comprehesive fact finding mission. I wonder what NF has to say now that his/her  manufactured propaganda has been thoroughly debunked.

Probably the entire Basije and Hizballoh herd believe in this kind of garbage...

That's right, just lower your standards NF

NF says "stop looking up to SK and others like Turkey and Brazil", and that it is not reasonable to expect that Iran would be at their level had the revolution had not happened.

Well I have a newsflash for you- Iran was at a HIGHER level than all of these countries in 1979.  THEY used to look UP to US.   We already had favorable trade status with the US and received large amounts of priveleged technology as the US trusted us- in fact they trusted us way more than they should have and they will NEVER do that again.

If you want to become independent, it is simple.  You have to master technology.  You can either settle for crap and try to reinvent the wheel while the rest of the world speeds ahead (which is what we are doing now), or you can get the latest and greatest, catch up, and keep up with the rest (and in some cases lead the way).  And you should do so on ALL fronts- industry AND education. In the meantime, you should refrain from making stupid statements and actions that may deny you access to technology, behavior like taking diplomats hostage, or saying the Holocaust is a myth, or Salman Rushdie should be killed for writing a novel, or the first lady of France is a whore.

If we were to follow your recipe for "indpendence" in 1979, we would be reverse engineering biplanes from 1935, repainting them, and saying now we are self sufficient in building fighter planes. Of course, the only people that claim would be useful for would be undeducated idiots at home, as every professional military and military experts on the planet would be ridiculing us (like they do now). Sorry, but I think the the path that Pahlavi took is preferable to yours any day, and the fact that we had no war for 35 years proves that.

No Fear

Mohsen Rafighdoost is full of crap

Here are just a few.

In fact, the gun factories were set up in the late 40's (check out
the close up pictures of the early rifles with Iranian factory
markings):

//www.aliparsa.com/brno/brno.html

And the ubiquitous Heckler and Koch G3A6 which is a great German rifle, built by large numbers in prevolutionary Iran, and still used today:

//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heckler_&_Koch_G3

and is explained in more detail in "Rifles of the world" by John  Walter- shows Iran was producing 145k G3 rifles/year prior to revolution, declining to 50k/year in mid 80's:

//books.google.com/books?id=Eq2Dnj4sDZIC&pg=P...

Also interesting is the book "China and Iran:Ancient Partners in a Post-Imperial World" by John W. Garver, in which the extent of the Chinese Iranian cooperation to restore to some degree of the pre-revolutionary defense industry plans are laid out:

//books.google.com/books?id=u2X1DNUATjkC&pg=P...

And of course there is the Iran Aircraft Industries IACI, set up before the revolution with Northrop (now Northrop Grumman), including none other than Jack Northrop himself, a good friend of the Shah, who transfered the detailed plans of the F-5 to Iran at the time:

//www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/iran/...

which is why Iran can do massive overhaul and rebuilds on the F-5, as well as other aircraft. Same goes for Bell Helicopter Textron massive facility in Isfahan, home to one of the largest helicopter fleets in the world.

And I am not even going to the Iran ammunition industries in Isfahan who built various types of ammunition with collaboration with the Swedish company Bofors, to which Iran also had close ties, even into the 80's.  Not to mention  IEI, the Iran Electronics Industries, built with Hughes and Westinghouse, to produce, modify, and maintain a variety of advanced radars and air to ground and air to air missiles.

Of course, Iranian state media pretends that all of this was set up after the glorious revolution and takes full credit that neither Khomeini nor Imam Zaman nor any of these mullahs had absolutely any role in or contribution to.  They brag about IEI or HESA or DIO or IHSRC or any other of these facilities, when they were all founded, built, and planned well before the revolution by COMPETENT people who actually cared about our country.

So basically, your rafigh Mohsen Rafighdoost is full of crap, as are the rest of his colleagues in the IRI.  Find better people to quote.

Iran did have weapons factories

Iran actually had military equipment factories during the Shah’s time. There were mainly for light weapons for the Army. General Toofanian was the head of the army at the time.

There was a machine gun factory somewhere between Jaleh Square and Dooshaan Tappeh (Air Force) that produced Kalashnikovs. Back then, Iran also produced bullets and light bombs.

The hand guns were mostly imported from Germany (Mauser), Belgium and later on Colt 45’s from the US.

There was an aircraft assembly (Sanaie Havapeima Saazi) that was being built near Mehrabad.

One of the stories that was circulating right before Khomeini came to Iran was that Shahpoor Bakhtiar asked the Air Force to bomb the machine gun and ammunition factory and the warehouse so that the weapons would not fall in the hands of the folks on the streets. But the head of the Air Force, General Rabiei refused, because the Air Force was responsible for defending the Iranian skies, not dealing with the riots on the streets.

And as we all know, he later was murdered without any trials or charges in the hands of the Khomeini crowd.

Why hasn't the IRI deny the authenticity of the letter then?

Come on, make up an excuse.

Let me help you out NF

Here's a report and video of your bosses supplying yet another terrorist group, the anti-Iranian and anti-Shia Taliban in this case, with weapons.  If you watch the video, you will see that some of the Iranian explosives (mines) that were intercepted still have the Shah's royal crown inscribed into them.  The crowns appear to have been hacked away by IRI goons, but you can still see the outline.  That's one example of weapons that were made in Iran during Shah's time.  

 //www.channel4.com/news/articles/world/asia_pacific/exclusive+iran+supplies+weapons+to+taliban/3582967

OnlyIran,

Wow, great source !  We should all listen to Mir agha when he is speaking the truth. Find a better sourse next time. Not someone who is bitter about losing the election and is trying really hard to save his political life.

So, you believe that we took a bomb to Mecca to blow it up?  sure...;) 

Fair,

Please provide me with any reading material you have on Iran being able to produce light arms or any arms during Shah's era.

My information on Iran not being able to produce a single bullet at the begining of the war comes from Mohsen Rafiqdoust interview with Tabnak less than a year ago.

Actually No Fear, the quote and information was from your

"Ammeh", or in this case, your Ammoo, Mirhosein Mousavi, the prime minister of the great Islamic Republic from 1981-1989.  If you had put your emotions in check and had bothered to click on the link that I had provided in my comment before you started ranting with your keyboard, you would have noticed it.  Here's the quote:

 "The operations abroad... take place without the cabinet's knowledge or orders. You know better [than me] of their catastrophic and undesirable consequences for the country. We are informed only after an airplane is hijacked. We learn only after a machine gun opens fire on a Lebanon street and its sound can be heard all over. I am informed only after explosives are found on our pilgrims in Jeddah. Unfortunately, and against all the losses these actions have brought to the country, the likes of these operations could take place at any moment or any hour in the name of the cabinet," Mousavi's letter reads. 

Here's the link, again:

 //iranian.com/main/news/2010/09/01/mousavis-revelations-would-destroy-govts-legitimacy

Now kiss your Ammeh good night...or better yet, put on your suicide vest and get on a bus somewhere, so that you can prove to the world that you're "independent".   

OnlyIran,

Everything that Iran is doing lately points to a desire to become independent in that respected field and is far from your emotional rant of Iran being militant. You even had to prove your point with an imaginary example by claiming Iran is militant because they smuggled bombs in mecca! Where did you get this revelation? BBC ? CNN? or your ammeh joonet told you?

We are striving to become independent in our nuclear energy, military industry, electronic warfare , naval industry, air defence system, ICBM and so on. These are not systems which are favoured by " militants" for your and your ammeh information.

Amir Jaan their mentality says it all

they cannot separate the concept of independence from being militant. This portion of NF's latest revolutionary rant that you quoted says it all:

 But if you are located in the centre of the most important region in the world, you don't have the luxury to be left alone. You either have to be someones bitch or you have to stand up on your own.

They confuse being independent with being militant.  Of course, there is another country in the "region" which is very close to them (much closer than their beloved Palestine that they cry for every day) which is both independent and a democracy: India.  But they can't see that.  They think that they have to smuggle bombs into mecca and hijack planes to prove their "independence" and to show that they are "standing up" on their own.

 //iranian.com/main/news/2010/09/01/mousavis-revelations-would-destroy-govts-legitimacy

@Faramarz

Poodle hat...

love it. thanks for the laugh. I needed that.lol

This guy is probably a South Lebanese welfare King/queen sponsored by the the regime Jenayatkar va khounin Jomhourieh Islami..