Current Events

let them eat cake

but thet can't-eat cake that is- if they got a full facial veil. Hence the need for the ban.

Azarin Sadegh

Do you really think those women are prisoners at home?  You should see that lady in court. 

What about all those sluts women in the Iranian government?  Are they in prison at home or their husbands are prisoners at home?!  Those women have much more rights and powers than their female companions in Western countries.

Discrimination against women is not about those types of women.  It's about ordinary women.

Excellent

It appears that even liberal idiots in France are begining to wake up and smell the coffee. This has nothing to do with this right and that right, consitution, human right and general mumbo jumbo that liberals always whine about and every knows that. This is pissing match by bunch of islamo facists. They find  a weak spot in a societies they live at and try to penterate and change it the way the want it. Remember prime minister of Turkey said it best that  they will utilize democractic tools to get to their objective and once they succeed adios Turkey.

Soosan khanoom

 Just to confuse matters more, there was a growing trendy trend a few years ago in Britain of teenagers wearing the full burqah just to annoy everyone. Their sort of punk revolution. 

It isn't all in black and white, however, once again, I don't know how many times I have to reiterate the fact that ALL should be seen equal under the law, especially when the question of "choice" is presented, whether going around in the nude or covered from head to toe, with ceremonial Sikh daggers or Swiss Army knives.

Once again, ALL should be very concerned about identification, especially during demonstrations and especially in the current economic and political climate. 

My two cents

I was just discussing this with Kari on the article that was written by her

Can't Wear That

If we put the politics behind this aside giving the fact that there may be one according to some here, I personally believe that " Neqab " should be banned and here is my reply to Kari that I would like to share with you guys here as well ... 

>>>>>>>

I do not know what to say ... I am confused and mixed up a bit when it comes to wearing Neqab ......

For sure women should be free to choose whatever they want but they also need to be practical.  These type of covering is not practical. Furthermore , it draws too much attention and people feel uncomfortable when these woman are around ......

In my opinion, the effect of this choice is exactly the same as the effect of one that chooses to walk in the street " Topless "  ..... now do not laugh at me ........ It is exactly the same, If a woman walk down the street with her boobs all over, it also draws attention and make people around uncomfortable. Further more it is not also practical ......

You have stated that: " if you strip a woman of what she feels is her dignity, you'll have a lot of indignant women. We all know American women can become pretty indignant if someone tells us what not to wear." 

Well..... are we really free in our choices?  Then why we do not see people walk down the street topless ? Do you not think that those women who choose to be naked have rights too ? May me they have found their dignity in being naked.  Who are we to dignify one thing and not the other? 

That is where the law of land should draw the lines  ....... It should explain the boundaries and the citizens should follow that.

Now I do not see wearing a simple Hejab or not wearing it to be an issue in any society. Cause both are practical as we see in the U.S today.  I am totally against forcing woman to wear scarf or not to wear it..  But "Neqab"  as I said above is equal to a topless choice. Both are extremism at its peak and in my humble opinion both should be banned .....

Also you stated that "

This form of covering  is the manifestation of the strictest interpretation of modesty in Islam. Women who choose this practice consider themselves seriously observant Muslims and believe this form of dress allows them to move about the outside world while protecting their dignity. "

We all know that Negab is nothing but Bull shit with no Quranic back up .....

Thank you for sharing your article with us and I hope I have been able to make you see things in new prespectives.

bavafa, yes and no

Thank you for your response and as usual, a sensible one.

I did post twice on this below before typing to you. I do share your concerns about the motivations behind this law, which is ONE of the reasons I mentioned "Mr Klein" (a reference to the movie  //www.imdb.com/title/tt0074916/). (And France, despite its legalized separation of crutch and state, is more "religious in its psyche" than e.g. Britain or Germany...). I would also like to point out that mainstream media are spinning this into ratings, as well as perpetuating political point-scoring....

However, it seems that a lot is being distorted. The "new" French law, seems to cover ALL forms of face-covering gear, which IS disturbing, especially if for example people gathering at demonstrations are concerned. The "choice" that you speak of , here , truly matters. Dangerous sleep-walking into a police state ....

However, I don't know enough about the previous laws in France to make a judgment of certainty, in Britain however, no-one can walk into a bank or teach school children with a crash helmet or dressed up as going to a Venitian Masked Ball, except on religious grounds. That's called an exemption. (I believe, that the case of the black bin bag teaching children was held in favour of the local council, as a fair dismissal of the teacher.)

The claim by this particular group is a "by-pass" of the law, an exemption, based on, what THEY claim to be religious grounds ; "freedom of religious expression".

1. There is nothing in the Qoran that stipulates anything but "modest" dress, i.e. NOT walking around in a black bin bag

2. Even IF the religious grounds were valid, I, and many others, should NOT be DISADVANTAGED by a law that makes EXEMPTIONS, privileges, for religious people.  

As I said before somewhere below, and yes, men and women, One LAW FOR ALL

leniencies  maybe, exemptions, NO!

BUT,  let's see if these Frenchies will uphold their laws at the Ritz or Hotel Meurice....

P.S. On a subjective level: I truly resent the fact that I am forced to discuss such truly ridiculous (without laughter) matters on a daily basis.  The rest of the world is desperately trying to figure out how to feed billions, provide safe drinking water, safe renewable energy and this lot and many other cults are stuck with discussions about their genitals and all the rest of their fascistic rituals. 

CCC: I definitly mean well...

As if it is not hard enough to argue with virtually all but one woman on IC and then most men regarding this prejudicial law, I have to argue with my wife at home too :(

Trouble is… not one so far (men or women) have argued rationally/objectively as why this law is not prejudicial or designed to target a particular segment of the society purely based on their religion.

Here is a statement that I whole heartedly agree with and feel the same with by Faramarz jaan:

"That scene, and I saw many more, was not about the freedom of choice in a free society. It was about ignorance, domination, slavery and subjugation and something needs to be done about it."

Yet, I don't believe it is neither the spirit of this law to protect these women from such disgusting cultural practices, nor justify preventing others who are willing to practice it wholly on their own good will and choice.

"And why should cults get privileged treatment under our laws?"

No one is asking for any special treatment or privilege here, they are asking them to give the same treatment as others, that is, to wear my choice of clothing which include an ugly looking neghab.

Mehrdad

A great day

A great day for France and stemming the pernicious infuelnce of Islam on society. The ugly Bedouin rag should not be worn in public in any civilised nations. Well done, Mr Sarkozy. 

For all Iranians lamenting the French decision you should look at the other video clip which shows plans to replace the Rial with the Arabic Dinar. Then you will shut up and support the French,

 //iranian.com/main/2011/apr/iran-introducing-dinar-currency

bavafa

 I'm sure that you mean well, but it seems to me that people in the US are obsessed with 'choice' without much understanding of what it actually means. 

 As an example, there was the case in the UK of a giant black bin bag teaching children. What about the choice of those children who need an education and are hindered by not being able to see a teacher's moving lips?

Or what about the lady who got the sack in a chain store's customer service department, because she, as a person with hearing difficulties, couldn't lip-read the black bin bags' requests? 

One person's "choice" can have a disastrous effect on someone else's liberties and livelihood. And why should cults get privileged treatment under our laws? 

Desperate Housewives!

This is a tough one and the Europeans have struggled with it for a while.

Although I am not in favor of aggressive police action to arrest or remove someone’s cover, be it a sack of potato or an obscene t-shirt, something needs to be done about this problem.

I can only speak about my own experience when I first saw a North African man in a train station in an outfit that is only suitable to be worn in the privacy of one’s home and several steps behind him was a woman in full Neghab and the works just following him like an obedient servant. That was so disgusting. That scene, and I saw many more, was not about the freedom of choice in a free society. It was about ignorance, domination, slavery and subjugation and something needs to be done about it.

ariane, You said the BEST

I like your logic & it is mine too.

All the more that you don't know How to Use Guns usefully ;0)

So Stop Wasting Good Ammunition :

Worst U.S. shooting ever kills 33 on Va. campus

All the more that Real GENUINE Freedom Fighters Need it in Libya:

Libya: Alain Juppe says Nato is 'not doing enough' (bbc)

Oh While Your at it folks tell Obama to ban Your 2nd Amendment

Maybe You should first Ask Obama to ban Your 2nd amendment :

MOSHIRI's COLD HAND's: Bahram Moshiri Slams Pahlavi Era Gun Ban Policies

And Start seriously thinking about your degrading educational levels :

American Girl Thinks Europe is a Country and Budapest is France

Miss Teen USA 2007 - South Carolina answers a question

Before Lecturing Sarko On applying one of the Founding Texts of Our Secular Republic:

Loi du 9 décembre 1905 concernant la séparation des Eglises et de l'Etat.

My Only problem with the current debate and controversy is that it will probably spoil my chances of dressing up in my favorite Batman Costume during the French Mardis Gras :

ORSON's HOUR: Orson WELLES -"The Unfinished Batman Project" Hoax ;0)

which you folks unoriginally copied and pasted in your culture ( as you often do with our best movie scripts and Songs without ever giving credit where it's due ) and dubbed it "Holloween":

SATIRE: The Burqa Republic of Our IRANICAN Dreams ;0)

à bon entendeur Salut ! ...

NiqaBitch secoue Paris (Mi Pute - Mi Soumise remix) SD

;0)

Bravo France!

This has nothing to do with freedom of religion! These women are like prisoners in their own family and this cover-up is the sign of them being in a prison. Looking at the world and life passing by - through this wall made of centuries oppression of the women -- cannot be translated as freedom.

Freedom cannot be veiled.

Burkas and Niqabs must be banned everywhere in the world

These extremists object to people walking naked in the streets but cry for freedom when using Burkas.

culture of imprisonment of women under Burka is against human rights

Before Lecturing Sarko on the Burqa Lecture Obama on Libya

I disgree with this law!

Now we are being forced to actually see these Arab women's figures. That is a visual crime that we should all fight against...

After all, our eyes have rights too...

The reason is sociological, not political

Mr / Mrs Alaaf: I think that this decision is much more sociological than political, as you believe it to be.  The overwhelming motivation is a reaction by those of us who are born and raised in our country being fed up with people coming from elsewhere and, instead of adapting to their new country, expecting their new country to adapt to them.

Muslims are strange..

They see nothing wrong with Polygyny, slavery, animal sacrifice, marriage with the minors, etc
, all are not immoral in Islam. But they find it  immoral for women to travel
alone, not wear hijab or enter in an elevator alone with a stranger... go figure the "morality" of this twisted cult who wants to impose its values on the civilized world in 21st century

Make no mistake

The reason behind this decision is political, as opposed to idealogical or practical. This is done to appease the extremely disgruntuled ethnic French. You need understand that Marine Le Pen's National Front are making head ways in French politics very fast. Latest polls show that they would get elected into the French parliament if there was a vote. Sarkozy is running scared.

David: A public beach is

David:

A public beach is as public as the streets of Paris and I certainly have seen many full and topless folks on the public beaches which none were subject to arrest.

Divanah Jaan:

Are you saying that we ought to take some of their rights away, just to protect their rights? Is that what I am hearing?

Could we then support to remove some of the restrictions that are in Catholic and other religious school ?

Amirparviz:

There are already laws to protect people from forceful act and this law will not do any thing to protect their civil liberties. How would criminalizing a voluntarily wearing of their veil, protect them, unless of course we are to force our way of life and beliefs into others, some thing IRI, Saudi Arabia and many other dictatorship regimes do routingly.

Alx1711:

When you speak of immorality & corrupt minds being promoted by Hejab, is that based on a some studies & research in the field or personal experience? I yet to get turned on by a woman wearing Bugha or Hejab.

R-G:

I believe you have hit the nail right on the head… this is, I believe, our reaction to any thing Islamic courtesy of IRI. Even if that comes to bite us later on, but right now it just feel good to go counter to any thing that IRI is remotely for.

Mehrdad

You can not eat your cake and have it too!!!

     Why do they insist on living in Paris ?    if they want to wear the most backward , the most oppressive , the ugliest fashion ,  why not go to Najaf or Yemen or Saudi Arabia or Pakistan or kazemine opr karbala or samereh ?  They could wear their  Neqab (mask) and Burqa in those countries freely .  they could even wear 100 yards of fabric on their heads ,  a mask on their faces and another to cover their mouth and no one would oppose . because that is the norm there . 

    On one hand ,they enjoy living  among the most modern nations and benefit from the fruits of "Modernity ". On the other hand , they want to stick to their back ward underdeveloped mentality .

BUT

 watch out for those fascist Frenchies, NEVER forget the Vichy government and nouveau Sharkozy, Mr Klein.

Excellent move by

Excellent move by FRANCE...

Other countries should follow, same goes for Iran. Burgha & Hejab should be banned as they promote immoraity & corrupt minds.

World is not Arabia... if anybody wants to wear that disgracfull clothing, they should live in middle of desert in Arab (tazie) land.

This is an anti islamic rule.

 So let us not kid ourselves with politically correct, make shift, rationals.

Further, this rule was put in place in direct reaction to the growing anti ilslamic/ anti muslim sentiments amongst Europeans. So expect more rules like this. 

Muslim immigrants in west would help defeating this wave of anti muslim hysteria by coming out onto the streets in western cities, demonstrating against the atrocities being committed in their and their religion's name by terrorist entities such as Islamist Regime of Iran and al qaeda.

 "Personal business must yield to collective interest."

This has nothing to do with Freedom to choose dress

This has everything to do with protecting secular values, and protecting some women who are forced by their church leaders to wear the veil.  It's about equality for all women, not just non muslim ones.

The women can practice their faith at home and their children are brought up in an environment where they can choose for themselves their own worth as individuals.  The Burka representsfor many the inequality in islam which states the worth of a women is half that of a man.

I wish the Iranian government would follow suit, considering most iranians want secular values and Iran unlikethe whole planet hasbeen secular for over 2500 years.  It man be necessary to give our lives to end the regime before we can restore freedom to Iran.

I wish UK would follow

Burqa is the first step in isolating a woman from the society in which she lives and stripping her of her rights. Women in the liberal families do not wear it. It is the backward, religious families where the girls are forced into these bags to which they then get used (or not). Any responsible government has a duty to ensure all its citizen can get assimilated in the society and reach their full potentials. Well done France.

Mehrdad

There are designated nude, etc beaches. You can not walk naked in middle of paris.

These women can wear these things at home or private gathering as much as they want. 

Thank You Reza Shah ( French TV Debate)

CE SOIR OU JAMAIS: Reza Shah's Veil Ban Defended in French Burqa Ban Debate

simple

 if the law prohibits wearing a mask of any sort over anybody's face, like a helmet or a druid's balaklavah, then NOBODY has the right to offend that law, and that INCLUDES religious people or rather those who lie, as there is no such distinction in the Qoran. 

SAY NO TO RELIGIOUS PRIVILEGE OF ANY SORT 

ONE LAW FOR ALL