RESPONSE

Numbers do not lie

But they don't always give us the true and real picture either:)

numbers don't lie

@Raoul1955, you are correct but be rest assured I didn't refresh the other article 11000 times, I probably visited it 100 times to read all the comments, plus the number of facebook shares numbers don't lie either my friend.

Deev Part II

I prefer if Mr Atabai writes in English and Persian. The reality is we are playing in a global arena. 

Deev

I like this approach of responding to every person directly. Why should Mr Atabai not respond? I like to know what he has to say.

Also it is possible to be both appreciative and critical of Pahalvi. I am such a person. 

deev

You write: '...on reaching half as many viewers and facebook-shares as the article critical of the Pahlavi family.'

Please elaborate on how you got your stats on the readers and such, and the accuracy of your claim on hits.  One can visit a page and by refreshing the page, increase the number of hits.  For example, you can refresh this article 50 times and add 51 counts [including the original hit] to the 'viewer' count.
Thanks

Congratulations Mr. Atabai

Congratulations  on reaching half as many viewers and facebook-shares as the article critical of the Pahlavi family:

//iranian.com/main/2011/jan-27

Should you get the itch to write again please consider addressing your fellow countrymen in our own language Persian instead of spending time on replying to every Tom, Harry and Dick, unless you're following the traditional policy of appeasing the westerners and ignoring your own people.

آقایون، شهبانو

آقایون، شهبانو زنگ زد و گفت بی‌خیال، جوون‌های ایران رو دارن میکشن و شما دارین سر پسرم خودتون رو جر میدین.

Dear VPK

Obviously the %20 quote is not my intent to sunnicize the Kurds or Baluch for instance but their assumed image in the eyes of the regime who sees em not as i or you see them as Iranians but in religious shades of sunnie vs shia. This whole bussines of dividing Iranians among religious lines are another fruit of ommatism in general and the mullah regime in particular. In my view any group or person who divides Iranians along religious or any other ideological lines is an anti kiaani alien omaru. Kiaan, Iran & Drafshe Kaviaan are our identity and our spirituality is our own private buss between us & our Lord. Cheers pal!!!

Path of Kiaan Resurrection of True Iran Hoisting Drafshe Kaviaan //iranianidentity.blogspot.com //www.youtube.com/user/samsamsia

Samsam Jan

%20 are 3rd class citizens(Sunnis)'

Many of us are *neither* Shia or Sunni. I reject the belief that Iranians are as Muslims as these numbers claim. 

The business about 99% Mulsim is BS. My family {both sides} going back for generations was La-Massab. My grandfather used to say: If they took me to Heaven and I saw Mohammad and Ali I would walk right out! The "Islamization" of Iran at these numbers only goes back to Safavids. It is superficial and does not come from the heart. Our heart is "Kiani". Why do you think we still name our kids "Koroush" and "Dariush" and a hundred other Persian names. The Iranian heart is still Zoroastrian and Kiani.

Once again; the difference is in the "scope"

, quality, quantity of dictatorship and not just "numbers" as claimed. The scope of tyrrany today covers every facet of every day life such as;,   socio/cultural/gender/political/economical/class/religious/academical/personal aspects of each & every one cotozen. 50% are 2nd class serfs(Women), %20 are 3rd class citizens(Sunnis). & once again if one doesn,t diffrentiate between an Iranian based regime vs an Omaru ommatie regime I got not much more to say.

btw, phrases such as anti-people or anti-rights are pretty loaded terms that can be said about any regime any where at anytime be it democratic or not.

Cheers!!! 

Path of Kiaan Resurrection of True Iran Hoisting Drafshe Kaviaan //iranianidentity.blogspot.com //www.youtube.com/user/samsamsia

Parham

 That's a funny one, again! He did it to avert this, yet made it happen that way actually!

• I have been thinking about it for many years.
• It is not funny; rather it is ironic. Sort of like someone who runs away from a threat just to run head first into it.

Sam Sam

But both anti- people/anti-freedom/anti-rights.
Difference is in numbers affected.
That's shallow.

:) shallow observation of Shah vs IR

comparing Shah vs IR as both dictatorials though technicaly correct is pretty misleading at best. With that logic we can also call the mouse the same specie as the 60 ton spinosaurus Dinosaurs as both are Reptiles. There is obviously a big difference between absolute socio/cultural/political/economical/class/religious tyrrany verses  a run of the mill political dictatorship of a Monarch. & main point that every one misses is the ideology of entity in question in which one is somehow Iran-centric and the other ommah-centric. My 2 cents as a neutral observer.

Cheers!!!

Path of Kiaan Resurrection of True Iran Hoisting Drafshe Kaviaan //iranianidentity.blogspot.com //www.youtube.com/user/samsamsia

Prophet

That's a funny one, again! He did it to avert this, yet made it happen that way actually!
Think about it.

Parham

The reason I compare them is that Shah did his actions to avert what happened. 

That brings out "do means justify the end". Now that is if we assume he had good intentions. I see two arguments. I like to hear yours.

Here is the pro Shah argument: The Shah killed people in order to avoid even more deaths. In that case I may disagree with the means but the ends were valid. When it looked like he had to do mass murder to remain in power; he backed off.

The anti Shah argument is: Shah was a selfish dictator who put himself and his ego above all. He could not care less whom he killed. He just wanted power and stopped at nothing. But when it came to a real show down he chickened out.

Prophet

"Shah reserved that for the most desperate situations."

Not so, there are many who even died under torture. The ones you're talking about are the publicized cases like Golesorkhi and Daneshian.
And please stop comparing the two systems together: They are both dictatorial!
Remember, you are not trying to get discount on a wheeler. We're talking about people's death here, people who had every right to their lives and got killed because of their thinking.

Parham

I am against Death Penalty. If I take power I will have all pro death penalty shot :-)

For humor challenged people the above statement is a joke!

Alright what I said may have not made sense so I will explain:

• I am opposed to the death penalty; I was not always opposed to it. Watching it applied has convinced me it is impossible to get it right.
• Shah did use the death penalty; he was wrong. However he applied it to the mostly the nastiest elements of society. Does it make it right: no. But it is not like the IRR does where they line up all the Marxist prisoners and kill them.

I had relatives who got into trouble with the Shah. Mostly for being Marxists. Not one got executed. They were intimidated; not physically tortured and let go. The IRR would have raped and killed them for sure. Shah reserved that for the most desperate situations.

Prophet

What I meant was leaders or political groups advocating democracy!
And sorry for the thrashing, but honestly, you asked for it with your contradictory statements about being against the death penalty and then being for the fact that the Shah killed "trouble-makers"!

Cyrus
I also see people like Dabbashi and Aslan as closet-case Islamists, or at least very washed-down versions of modern ones, though more out of opportunism than anything in the case of Aslan. I hope I am entitled to my opinion.

Democracy

Just to be clear. Democracy is the will of majority. It will need a bill of rights or else it becomes a tyranny of majority. When I say democracy I mean one with a lot of guarantees. Things like the ones in David ET's constitution. 

No one including majority should be able to force a minority to become Muslim. Or to put on a hijab. Or lots of other things. Rule of majority needs a bill of rights. This is critical or you just get another form of tyranny and injustice.

Parham

None of these people gets up to say baba, we want democracy first, ALL TOGETHER, and then we'll decide how the power will be distributed. That's the way it should be done (okay, Jebhe Melli does that, but do you EVER even hear Jebhe Melli?).

You missed my posts. I have been saying we need a secular democracy for years. I don't care if it is Parliamentary; Presidential or Monarchy {ceremonial king}. You have been busy trashing me but I have asked for just what you are saying.

Regarding RP I agree that he is not really passionate about power. That is what I like about him. We are better off with people who do not hunger for power. The less desperate for power the more likely to be willing to give it up.

As for supporting Shah's misdeeded. I do not support his mistakes. Why don't you read my posts. I have said he did a lot of things weong.

VPK

Cyrus

think the only Iranians with name recognition abroad who emerged from the experience more resonant were academics such as Reza Aslan and Hamid Dabashi,

Are you kidding me? Reza Aslan the same Islamist who sounds just like Shariati? That one? I would not take him as a leader in a million years. I am not so sure about Dabashi.

I hope we learned enough to avoid fake academics this time. I personally had enough of "Islamic" intellectuals. No thanks.

All so-Called "Leaders" of Opposition Abroad Birds of a Feather

Irrespective of what Reza Pahlavi envisions for himself, what saddens me is that his conscience never behooves him to act as an effective thorn in the side of the Mullahs. He could expose their massive corruption, the extent to which they have reduced the country to economic shambles, their sickening human rights record, etc etc.

He repeats he has no political aspirations. If that is so, his conservative demeanour is baffling. Irrespective of whether he really is angling for the throne (which would certainly be his right) or if he is just simply a concerned citizen like the rest of us, he could and should expose miserable conditions existing in Iran rather than keep repeating the hackneyed expression I believe in democracy, or am not interested in the throne. he has inherent opportunities no one else posesses.

What people like to see is an individual who is obviously pained by what is going in Iran. Empathy is all people detect and tune in to. Its all quite simple in politics, people's intuition is a whole lot more important than whether they are receptive to the actual substance of your actual message. Usually you cant fake caring. Yet everyone is capable of repeating ad nauseum that they belive in democracy.  

But then, the other so called opposition personalities, civil society actors, dissidents, or "political leaders" (I would say 100 individuals scattered outside Iran with name recognition) all appear solely focused on themselves. Before the Green Revolution I refrained from judging any (apart from the damned Iraq based ones) and just though all these groups were daft.

But the Green movement demonstrated to me that all these groups and personalities appear to have feet of clay and are listless and ineffective. I could understand they were smug in their self assessments before the Green revolution. Every political or civil society leader or activist with name recognition abroad had to have realized with the Green Revolution they were really not as important as they hetherto thought they were. It must have been a rude awakening for all. Yet none had a santiago moment. Despite their irrelevance, none of them had the good sense to reach out to other political leaders in exile to embolden iranians at home with a symbolic show of unity abroad.

Unreal and pittiful. So incredible that Iranians who protested in Iran were so much more politically mature than the numerous activists with name recognition outside Iran. The demonstrators put their differences aside and acted as a collectivity. What a deficit of genuine care and concern by "eminent" leaders and activists abroad. Iranians all across europe and North America were also exemplary in joining hands. 

I think the only Iranians with name recognition abroad who emerged from the experience more resonant were academics such as Reza Aslan and Hamid Dabashi, and the producer Mohsen Makhmalbaf (for making it palpably clear they cared and were emotionally engaged),  and Karim Sadjadpour (for his analytical prowess). All the rest were pitiful liliputin talking heads. Maybe I'm being a bit too judgmental but I wonder what it will take for Iranians of various political political persuasions to demonstrate they are willing to put their personal egos aside and stand shoulder to shoulder to pay homage to Iranian heroism back home.        

Cyrus

You know, if you're really a democrat and believe in democracy, you have support among all groups, not just monarchists. It's not only in the talk, but in the act too. He would like to say he (kind of) does, especially now that he has received condolences for Alireza's death from all sorts of people, but I think that's a bit of wishful thinking.
Would those people support him should things come to a boiling point, I doubt it. He still has a long way to go to obtain people's trust, and the behavior of his family or their supporters does not really help that. It's kind of ironic that they/he only get(s) support from (or let's say the majority of his supporters are) the yesteryears' nouveau-riche and not-very-educated/cerebral populace of Iran.
Two years ago when he finally decided to admit to some of his father's "mistakes" and even admit that Mossadegh may have been right, I thought he finally has understood that he needs other people's support. But then that was his only move in that direction and was not repeated by seconds. His reticence in trying to find support in other groups has always made me feel like he doesn't really want the role that he says he does, that deep-down he's comfortable with where he's at in life, and would just opt for power if it fell into his hands -- that he's not really serious about all he says, and that he's doing all this just as a reaction to the previous criticism about him doing nothing as the ex heir-to-throne!
And you know what the REALLY sad part of the story is? It's that he's the ONLY figure advocating democracy! None of the others do, besides a few small groups here and there, whose importance the crowd doesn't grasp.
The Mojahedin want the Rajavis, Jebhe Melli doesn't have a figure and the members are busy calling each other doctor mohandes, the "greens" are torn between two members of the regime and nothing else (poor, poor people), the communists /left are considered history, and so on...
None of these people gets up to say baba, we want democracy first, ALL TOGETHER, and then we'll decide how the power will be distributed. That's the way it should be done (okay, Jebhe Melli does that, but do you EVER even hear Jebhe Melli?).
It's all very sad...

Great Point

Astute observation as always Parham. 

I agree that Reza Pahlavi would do well to distant himself from some of the disreputable rabble rousers surrounding him. But to emerge as a viable personality worthy of attention he would need to also develop a political backbone. What has he ever put his shoulder to for anyone to take him seriously.

I am convinced he has no burning desire to shake anything up, either his entourage or the country. Its a pity since with his name recognition and deep pockets he could otherwise have commanded attention.

aynak

I think Reza Pahlavi doesn't dissociate himself from those people because he thinks he'll just lose supporters, whereas he doesn't know he'll gain a whole bunch more by doing that; and he'll gain them where he so desperately needs them. Which, incidentally, should say either something about his motives or, at the least, maturity as a politician.

Prophet

Parham

You do deny the good that the Shah did. Again; I am not denying his mistakes. But the revolution was a biggest mistake. 

 Yes, you all, the revolution is YOUR fault initially

Oh that is real good. I was not even 18 when it happened. I had no hand in it. Nor did I run Iran so that none of the policies had anything to do with me. You want to blame me? Why don't you blame yourself? It was the combination of Islamists; Marxists and the hate filled Mossadeg followers who did this. They were mad and willing to do anything to bring him down. Baby with the bathwater as they say. Also I am not surprised that you see the prosperity as poverty. You are using negative point of view.

I wouldn't make fun of anyone

parham, with that grill of yours LOL!

VPK & Parham

VPK:

I have sent RP letters asking him to officially abdicate and support true democracy for Iran, which I believe will NEVER be accomplished under the lable of Monarchy, simply because TOO MANY PEOPLE will not have it that way.   The question is though, OK Shah is the best person on the face of planet, why are we bothering with him now?   Isn't he dead?   Let's just leave it at that and move forward.   Thats why I am having this conversation with folks like yourself that are on the fence, and not hardcores like DK, who have no self respect for themselves or Iran, except that which comes pre-approved by Shah.

Parham:

Reza Pahlavi, is doing the same thing as Khamaneh'ee --pre election--excpet he does not have power.   Remember, when there were attack on others, he was always quiet.   Never making official statemetns, until of course after the 2008 election.    All RP has to do, is put an official disclaimer on his web site, that I completely disassociate myself from the people like hate monger Saeed Sakoui......   If he truly can't tell his own supporter, which by definition think of him as above all else, how could he even pretend he will do anything of significance for Iran?

Personally, I blame the people who kiss hands and asses, less than those who let others kiss their hands and raise them above this world.   That is the essence of corruption, and where it all starts.

May we all have good dreams.

SOS Go Fly a Kite or Write a Diary For Everyone's Sake

You are truly no different than the lunatic yahoos currently running Iran. Much like them you just run around and shoot off your guns in all directions. Your brilliant scheme of bringing blood libel and defamation proceedings against Mr. Kizner is as half backed as Ahmadenijad's threat to commence legal proceedings against the British for their conduct over the course of the past seven decades.

Why don't you have the Queen's charity invest in a diary (with a padlock preferably) so you can spare us your meanderings and keep your avant garde thoughts to yourself.

By the way the Queen's charity only had one spurt of activity. That was for a relative who was suffering from an unfortunate illness. As such, it is far from a going concern. That said, your malady, and possibly kinship, may stand you in good stead.

Good luck to you and the rest of us.  

SOS:   Don't just

SOS:

Don't just talk. Act. I would love for this matter to be settled in the court fair and square and once and for all. Let the truth come out.