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Bad Idea
22-Jul-2011
The unprecedented campaign in Washington to remove the Mojahedin Khalq (MEK) from the U.S. list of Foreign Terrorist Organizations represents a critical threat to Iran's indigenous democratic movement. Unlike Iran's democratic opposition, which advances through nonviolence the principles of democracy and human rights, the MEK is an undemocratic organization that pursues its agenda through violence. Delisting the MEK and freeing the group to inject violence into Iran's democratic opposition movement would help derail yet again Iran's century-long struggle for democracy.
Secretary Clinton will soon make her decision on whether to remove the MEK from the terrorist list; the consequences of her decision could indeed determine whether Iran's democratic aspirations are once again plunged into the abyss of a vicious cycle of violence.
The MEK enjoys almost no popular support among Iranians, yet it seeks to manipulate Iran's struggle for democracy to serve their own quixotic end -- to install MEK leader Maryam Rajavi as Iran's next dictator. MEK hopes to achieve this goal by manipulating the democratic struggle into a contest of violence, the arena where terrorist groups and undemocratic regimes prefer to compete. In this regard, there is little difference between the MEK and the regime. However, the heavily armed regime in Tehran has the upper hand when it comes to violence, including against the MEK's 3,000-man army.
Instead, the only damage the MEK would inflict would be on Iran's peaceful democracy movement. The rejection of violence has been critical to the democracy movement because it shifts the arena of competition with the Iranian government to a theatre where the opposition enjoys a significant comparative advantage. Rejecting violence provides the opposition the moral upper hand against Iran's hardliners. Hence, by confronting the regime where it is weak and where the opposition is strong, the nonviolent opposition also has the tactical upper hand. And, at the strategic level, the opposition has the upper hand because, in rejecting violence, Iranians ensure that their efforts will lead to democracy and respect for human rights, not just the shuffling of dictators.
In the past, violence has poisoned Iran's struggle for democracy. In 1965, the MEK was the first group to take up arms against the Shah, who in turn responded with further violence that unleashed a vicious cycle of brutal reprisals. As the Shah's repression grew increasingly violent, radical voices rose to the forefront of the opposition, and the voices of reason were marginalized. By the time revolution came in 1979, it was violent and undemocratic. One dictator was replaced by another.
In the aftermath of the June 12 elections, we saw yet again how the MEK seeks to manipulate the struggle for democracy to serve its own violent, undemocratic agenda. Newsweek journalist Maziar Bahari, just before he was imprisoned by the regime in Iran's notorious Evin prison for 118 days in 2009, reported firsthand how the MEK tried to "hijack" the peaceful Green Movement protests by launching attacks on Basijis. Bahari writes in his recent book that "MEK sympathizers had acted as agents provocateurs among the protestors, inciting violence."
He quotes a peaceful demonstrator on June 13, 2009, who says, "Some small terrorist groups and criminal gangs are taking advantage of the situation." She goes on to say, "Thirty years after the revolution and 20 years after the war, the majority of Iranians despise violence and terror. My worry is that if the government doesn't allow reforms to take place, we will fall into a terrorism abyss like the years after the revolution."
Injecting violence into Iran's opposition would turn the democratic struggle into a violent competition on the regime's terms. That is why the regime would love for the indigenous opposition to become violent and why delisting the MEK would be a gift to hardliners who have sought to smear the democratic opposition as being aligned with the MEK. Green Movement leaders have disavowed the MEK and wisely avoided taking the regime's bait, but now some in the U.S. want to use the MEK to inject violence into Iran's opposition movement.
Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Sadly, the people of Iran have learned all too well history's lesson that violence has only poisoned their democratic aspirations. Now, the U.S. must heed these lessons and resist political pressure to delist the MEK and perpetuating the vicious cycle of violence that has doomed Iran's century-long struggle for democracy.
Video: "Why Do We Need to Stand Up to the Mojahedin Khalq?"
AUTHOR
Jamal Abdi is Policy Director at the National Iranian American Council, the largest grassroots organization representing the Iranian-American community in the US.
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Amir Agha, I can agree with your core argument
by Bavafa on Sun Jul 24, 2011 12:20 PM PDTTo say 'the move (i.e DeListing) is at least partially if not completely a respond to the so called cold war with IRI'
The concern of many of us, at least me so I have spoken only for myself, is that what is the net affect of such policy towards Iranian people and the opposition groups?
And for clarity, by opposition groups I do not mean Mousavi or Kahrobi, but those groups who have genuinely shown commitments to democratic and secular way of life in Iran.
Here is a question we need to ask ourselves: Are we willing to support opposition groups to IRI if in the process we hurt and possibly destroy other opposition groups that have proven to a democratic and secular aspirations and objectives, yet the one that we are supporting has had a clear record of anti democratic, secular objectives AND has committed treason towards mother land.
'Vahdat' is the main key to victory
Mehrdad
Response to MM
by AMIR1973 on Sun Jul 24, 2011 12:01 PM PDTThen give me another reasonable/believable path in which the MEK will be used by the neocons.
I think your premise is wrong (or at least mostly wrong, in my opinion). This is NOT about the neocons versus the IRI. Rather, it is a 30 year-old enmity between the U.S. and the IRI. Not all the people supporting the de-listing are neocons, and not all neocons support the de-listing. This de-listing event is just a small piece in the bigger picture of a 3 decade adversarial relationship between an anti-American terrorist regime and the United States. I think the de-listing of the MEK is being used as another means by the U.S. of pressuring the IRI, along with the more important process of imposing meaningful sanctions against the IRI -- both of which processes NIAC and its "analysts" oppose.
Dear Mehrdad
by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on Sun Jul 24, 2011 11:15 AM PDTSaudi are no friends of Iran. They fear the popularity of IRI among their people. The reality is that IRI is more popular among Arab street than Iran. The Saudi fear that their population will rebel and demand more voice.
Therefore they will do anything to "cut of snake". The problem is Arab population is far more anti-American than Iranians. Remember it was Saudi peopel behind 911 not Iranians. Iranians were holding a vigil while Palestinians were dancing.
Go figure! Obama is smart enough or at least I hope he is to know this. Nothing good will become out of giving more power to Saudi. And no one who loves Iran would support Saudi over Iran. I find it difficult to understand the support some Iranians give radical pan Arabists. The only Iranian organization that ever put them above Iran was MEK. No wonder Bernie's plan is based on MEK. They want to split up and you are right. We do need "vahdat" or we are *** (yes I know it is Arabic :-).
We either work together or all die alone. The main thing is to prevent the Berni Lewis plan. All other things come next including "democracy". If he gets his way we are toast for years to come until another Nader Shah comes along.
I like to hear your ideas.
VPK
Aghaye Irandoot: Are you endorsing advise by Saudi king
by Bavafa on Sun Jul 24, 2011 10:46 AM PDTAs a Pro Democracy movement of Iran it is hard to imagine to seek and endorse advise that is given by the world's leading in anti-democratic government.
"Saudi king told Obama to cut off snakes head, Obama refused-so please do not expect miracles from Obama"
It is not the slogan on top of our web page that define us, it is our deed, actions and our integrity to democratic movements that differentiate between the fake and genuine democracy seeking groups.
'Vahdat' is the main key to victory
Mehrdad
OK Amir
by MM on Sun Jul 24, 2011 10:26 AM PDTThen give me another reasonable/believable path in which the MEK will be used by the neocons.
Dear MM,
by AMIR1973 on Sun Jul 24, 2011 10:03 AM PDTWith all due respect, Bahari's accusations are so thin on evidence and so speculative as to be quite suspect. How does he know that the people "attacking a Basij building with Molotov cocktails" were "MEK sympathizers"? Where is his evidence? How does he know that people chanting "Death to the Islamic Republic" are "MEK sympathizers"? The NIAC link further states: "Bahari goes on to describe the reaction among Green Movement leaders:
Mousavi was quite upset about the attack, but he was not going to let terrorists hijack the green movement—which was how the support for Mousavi was becoming known.
How rich that Bahari and NIAC approvingly refer to Mousavi being "upset" about terrorists when this guy's 8 years as prime minister of the IRI saw many thousands of Iranians executed (a number exponentially larger than 38 years of Moh'd Reza Pahlavi's rule), IRI's vital assistance in establishment and promotion of the terrorist Hezbollah gang in Lebanon, embassy bombings, and the kidnapping and killing of numerous Westerners and Iranians. In fact, Ali Akbar Mohtashemipour who is widely seen as one of the most important figures in founding Hezbollah in Lebanon is considered a leading "reformist" and top supporter of Khatami, Mousavi and the IRI faction promoted by NIAC as the leaders of "the pro-democracy movement" in Iran. I do like the fact that NIAC no longer even pretends not to back one or other of the IRI's factions.
One more
by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on Sun Jul 24, 2011 08:50 AM PDTPlease do not mix up Iranian Government IRI and Iran. When any Iranian government adds to Iranian territory it remains past that government. The reverse it also true. Ghajars lost much of Iran. We have not regained it since.
Therefore I oppose any plan that will result in disintegration. If it takes the Sepah then so be it. It is better to keep Iran intact than to being some farce of democracy. In time Iran will get rid of IRI. But not with Bernie's plan. He wants destruction not freedom.
Responses
by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on Sun Jul 24, 2011 08:45 AM PDTVPK
by MM on Sun Jul 24, 2011 08:17 AM PDTNo thousands of warriors are needed. The congress may fund them with our taxes, thanks to neocons and AIPAC.
The situation in the provinces is grim, for example, Hooshang Tarreh-Gol had a news bid on projects in Kurdestan being cancelled due to naa-amni (//iranian.com/main/news/2011/07/23-16). If MEK opens the gates of Ashraf, many of the residents will scape, but the hard-nose MEK could start sabbotage in provinces, claim to be plummered by sepaah and ask for assistance from the west which would at least chip away at the integrity/totality of Iran, or see Mazia Bahari's first hand experience below (*).
I am not taking a position on it but why the double standard.
Or, why are they quite about Bahrain? Don't know, but I suspect a geopolitical grand scheme!
I do not see a war in the near furture, but plenty of trouble in the provinces and we will see ultra-nationalistic cry of the minorities (turks, kurds, arabs, ....).
Do I want the IRI gone? oh YES, but I see disintergration more likely than the destruction of IRI with MEK around. And, at the worse, the Rajavis do not share power, period.
OK, helpful to themselves. In the long run, MEK only thinks about how to get in bed with someone else to achieve their own goals; Marxism in 60-70's, Islamism in 70-80's, Ba'thism/Saddamism in 80-90's, and now neocons have their reins.
---------------------------------
(*) "In the aftermath of the June 12 elections, we saw yet again how the MEK seeks to manipulate the struggle for democracy to serve its own violent, undemocratic agenda. Newsweek journalist Maziar Bahari, just before he was imprisoned by the regime in Iran's notorious Evin prison for 118 days in 2009, reported firsthand how the MEK tried to "hijack" the peaceful Green Movement protests by launching attacks on Basijis. Bahari writes in his recent book that "MEK sympathizers had acted as agents provocateurs among the protestors, inciting violence."" //www.huffingtonpost.com/jamal-abdi/delisting-mek-iran_b_906164.html?ref=fb&src=sp#sb=474162,b=facebook
VPK Obama worse than Carter on Foreign Policy
by arash Irandoost on Sun Jul 24, 2011 06:18 AM PDTVPK, I know firsthand that even before Obama announced he was going to run for presidency, he invited Muslim Brotherhood (MB) to his office and his statement to them was "look I like you guys" so help me to become president. Saudi king told Obama to cut off snakes head, Obama refused-so please do not expect miracles from Obama and there is no second term Iran agenda (except for appeasement of a criminal regime facilitated by a silent and corrupt United Nations)
Remember, Carter did something similar with Khomeini.... hoping for a democratic Iran and continuation of friendly relationship between Iran and US, he gave Khomeini millions: A revolution took place...Shah was ousted... Army remained Neutral ... Khomeini was to return to Qom and Iran would start a course towards democracy and your friendly US was there to help. Khomeini was groomed mostly by Tudeh/Marxists to brush his "Islamic " language to strike a more democratic tone and speak about democracy, freedom, women's rights, etc. (source: Reinventing Khomeini-Brumberg)... All changed, of course, as soon as Khomeini consolidated power and the rest is history. Similar thing will happen in Egypt. CAIR(MB Lobby Arm) and NIAC (IRI Lobby) have been sleeping in the same bed for a long time.
Obama's mentors are the same gang who educated Carter plus IRI lobby such as NIAC, et al. He is il-informed about M.E. Pronouncing Paaaakistan correctly does not make you a Middle East expert. Obama is an ideologue ... ideologues are great in speeches and they resonate in theory, but in practice their vision crumbles. what happened to Iran is taking place in Egypt under Obama's watchful eye and the Egyptian will pay dearly for it.
The consequences of Obama's foreign policy and his lack of leadership will affect our lives for decades to come ... knowing that NIAC roams the halls of Congress, with generous funding from the Parsa Foundation and knowing that there is no love lost between NIAC and MEK (Bob Ney was pro MEK-til Trita got his hands on him and MEK has hated Trita ever since) and Obama has had an earful about MEK from Trita types ...besides de-listing MEK will be embarrassing to Hillary...and we all know: You do not mess with Hillary.
NIAC is an opportunist organization and the sudden barrage of letters, articles, blogs are to show that it knows MEK will not be delisted ... Trita wants to show that it played a major role in preventing MEK from being delisted ... so that it can pretend it still is relevant.
For the skeptics, remember NIAC's article before the American hiker's release? It is no different here... Time will Tell.
Nuclear
by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on Sun Jul 24, 2011 05:14 AM PDTNow to the nuclear issue. The NPT gives Iran the right to peaceful use of nuclear technology. My own opinion is that nuclear is both dangerous and stupid. Nevertheless they have a right and it is West that is not being honest. They West; Russia and China were supposed to disarm but did not hold their side of the bargain. So if anyone is violating it by spirit is the nuclear powers not Iran. I would say let us all give up nuclear. Germany is smart enough to do it.
Ari mentioned the solar potential of Iran. I would say that would be the best approach. Read Ari's blog: //iranian.com/main/blog/ari-siletz/where-... . There are many good helpful post.
By the way the "nuclear" so called violations were not found by MEK. They were discovered by Israel. They first approached Reza Pahlavi to "reveal" it to USA. RP refused considering it to be a betrayal of Iran. Then they approached MEK. With its "high moral standards" MEK had no problem doing so. Then took "credit" for exposing IRI. I know many do not like RP but he has integrity. MEK does not and that is why they are being picked as favorite.
Folks
by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on Sun Jul 24, 2011 04:51 AM PDTObama is not peacenik as evident by his actions in ME. Now anyone who really think Obama "wants IRI" is living on another planet. Obama is just smart enough not to fight a war on four fronts.
Therefore he is biding his time until he gets the three ongoing ones wrapped up. That is not good enough for AIPAC so they are angry. But make no mistake Obama has both Syria and Iran on his screen. But he does not want a war; he wants a victory. If Right Wing is so "pro democracy" why do they want to de-fund his attack on Libya. I would figured they would be cheering him on. They just want him to make a mistake so they could gain political points. Obama is too smart for that.
The question is:
I am not taking a position on it but why the double standard.
It is clear to me that some are trying to divert attention from MEK to NIAC. I have not heard one statement from either one that does not mention it. Because they are interested in changing the focus from IRI / MEK to other issues. This is about MEK not NIOC (whatever it is). So as I tell my kids "Remain Focused". We have a discussion and I refuse to discuss any other subject but MEK.
NIOC rules 2
by Fred on Sun Jul 24, 2011 01:21 AM PDTIt might take a little time, however truth always comes out. And then the charlatan Ali Shariati devotees with their NIOC provided academic perch lobbying for their Islamist Rapist brethrens to have nuke will have a lot of explaining to do.
Time is on the side of the truth.
NIAC is fully aware that MEK will not be delisted
by arash Irandoost on Sat Jul 23, 2011 09:21 PM PDTAssuming that:
IRI is intent on building nuclear weapon(s),
NIAC is an arm of IRI doing its bidding in the U.S. to ensure regime survival and buy it enough time to build such weaponry,
NIAC wants sanctions to be lifted so that regime can acquire sophisticated nuclear technology, telecommunications, surveillance equipment and applications, military equipment, plane parts and chemicals to the criminal regime.
I think NIAC is fully aware that MEK will not be delisted as long as Hillary and Obama are in office.
If NIAC’s propaganda machine and sky is falling rhetoric is in full swing these days, in my opinion, is primarily because it knows fully well that MEK will not be delisted and an opportunist organization it is, NIAC want to score points on the U.S. and Iranian side. Trita will emerge as a BIG HERO among the regime supporters and US corporations and those interested in dialogue and diplomacy (doing business) with the regime that tortures and rapes its own citizens.
This is yet another failed US foreign policy. Obama does not want IRI to go away. They do not want a regime change, but change within the regime. Knowing fully well that mullahs fear MEK the most, this is a ploy by the US administration, yet again, a rapist and criminal regime to come to the negotiations table.
If it works and mullahs buckle, it is a win for the US and frankly that is what they are banking on, good for the US, NIAC, and the
regime.
If it does not work, and the mullahs call Obama and Hillary’s bluff and the regime continues pursuing nuclear weapons as it has for the past 20 years, and continues its blatant human right violations, then the US administration will have no choice to delist MEK off the list, perhaps under a Republication administration.
Having said all that, MEK’s timing is off a bit, in my opinion. I am surprised as to why MEK leadership would choose this administration to ask to be delisted?
The Sky Is Falling Again - And This Time It's the MEK!!!
by arash Irandoost on Sat Jul 23, 2011 07:20 PM PDTPosted directly from Iranian.com
Forby Onlyiran
14-Jul-2011
a while, NIAC, its supporters and the various assortment of other
gullible paranoid Iranians were screaming that the sky was falling and
that an American / Israeli attack on Iran was imminent, and that we
should rally around the IRI to save our country from total annihilation
and our women from being raped by American / Israeli soldiers. That
gravy train worked very well during the Bush years, and helped the IRI
solidify its hold on power more, perhaps even more than it did during
the 1980’s war with Iraq. But with the end of Bush
era, that ploy to keep the IRI in power lost its impact. After all,
if the crazy W. didn’t start a war with Iran, there is no way that Mr.
Nice Guy, Obama would. NIAC even tried hard to make Hillary Clinton
the villain, but since she wasn’t president, the tactic just didn’t
work. So, on to Plan B. What is Plan B, you may
ask? Well, take a look at the pages of Iranian.com for the past few
days, and unless you’re in a coma, it will jump right at you. You got
it: The MEK---the gift that keeps on giving. All of a sudden, Trita
Parsi has woken up and realized that MEK is a serious threat to Iran,
and that Rajavi is the next Chalabi and…you got it again…Iran will be
attacked and our women will be raped—this time, though, by MEK members
in their 50’s!!! So, what should be do, oh’ great
fear monger of the Islamic Republic, Mr. Parsi? When are we going to
be attacked? Are Iranian women and children safe? When is this
imminent attack by the MEK happening? Should we all sign up already
with the Basij to fight against them when they start their attack?
Does saying anything negative about the IRI help Rajavi and the MEK? Give us a break already!!!
Shazde, you are 100% right....
by ham1328 on Sat Jul 23, 2011 06:33 PM PDTWhy would anyone, except the IRI and it's paid agents care if MEK is de-listed?? Since when NIAC has given a bull about democracy in Iran??
Yawn!
by Mammad on Sat Jul 23, 2011 05:52 PM PDTThe gutless wonder, the confessed AIPAC Mafioso that you are, who has led a zero-achievement life - if we do not count his advocacy of war, sanctions, bloodshed, destruction, and Islam and Muslim demonization - is not expected to do anything but lying, exaggerating, insinuating, making baseless accusations, and using innuendoes. After all, a lobbyist is a lobbyist because he can lie easily.
Nothing will stop me from coming here, least of all you. It just does not matter what lies you say about me. I do not look over my shoulder because of you!! You have tried it for three years, but the only thing that you have done is revealing your ugly nature and your true identity - a turncoat confessed AIPAC lobbyist and Mafioso.
And, regarding your insinuation, I only say, Aan raa keh hesaab paak ast, az mohaasebeh cheh baak ast?
So, keep barking!
Mammad
NIOC rules
by Fred on Sat Jul 23, 2011 05:02 PM PDTOf course Pro-“Reformist” Islamist Rapists nonsense are expected from those who have been members of a “select committee” to advise the “reformist” thieving Islamist Rapist oil minister and been rewarded undeserved NIOC chairs.
But just like it has in the case of their idol, charlatan Ali Shariati and the revelations about their lets cut a deal with the Islamist Rapists NIAC lobby/cult, truth will come out.
30+ years of this Islamist savagery and these NIOC paid for want more of it for Iran, sweet dreams.
Once again, this is not about NIAC
by Mammad on Sat Jul 23, 2011 04:47 PM PDTSome of you cannot get enough of attacking NIAC to satisfy your absurd sense anger that you feel about this organization, for whatever reason that you may have, from professional and personal jealousy to a skewed sense of patriotism.
Take, for example, Dr. MK. He has equated the IRI with NIAC when it comes to listing Iran's enemies. This is the most outlandish proposal I have ever heard or read. And, if you ask him about it, he says, "It is my opinion. I may or may not be wrong." I thought that people who consider themselves scholars should reason better than that. Everytime there is anything about NIAC, remotely about NIAC, or not even related to NIAC, he comes in with his old and worn out, non-sensical "questions." These questions have been asked many many times. Most of them are not even worth the few seconds that one spends reading them. A few are worth pondering. But, is there anything new?
There is an Israel lobby on this site. There are monarchist lobbyists on this site. There are IRI lobbyists on this site. There are MEK lobbyists on this site. None bothers Dr. MK. You never "see" him crying out loud about them. If fact, he even praises turncoat Israel and AIPAC lobbyists who want nothing but war and destruction for Iran.
But, he has invented a non-existence NIAC RESPONSE TEAM, just so that he has another reason to attack NIAC. But, let us suppose that NIAC does have such a team. So what? Why is it that every group under the sun can have a response or lobby team, but NIAC cannot have? MK would immediately say, "Why don't they admit it?" Well, if it does exist, NIAC will not admit for the same reason that no other lobbyist admits that he/she is a lobbyist for this or that group or Israel.
There are thousands of website, organizations, think tanks, etc., that simply advocate this or that. But, if you ask them about it, they will either not respond (most of the time), or will simply deny it. Fox News claims to be "fair and balanced." What did you expect Fox to admit to? That it is "unfair and unbalanced?" Why is this so strange or even unreasonable? It is not, but it is one more "weapon" - imaginary, of course, because such tactics never go anywhere - to attack NIAC.
Instead of spending time on such issues, perhaps Dr. MK should tell us something else: What has your "radicalism" produced? What has your "rejectionist approach" produced? Show us an iota of advancement for the cause of democracy that has been the result of such radicalism. Jebheh Melli, that you are a member of, is non-existent, or at least it is so ineffective that is practically non-existent. It only exists on paper, whether it has "shoraay-e movaghat" or not in the U.S. and Europe.
Abdi's article is about MEK, and the consequences of delisting it from the list of terrorist organizations. One either agrees with it or not. If you do, say so. If you do not, explain your reasons, but do not say, "I don't agree because NIAC is leading it." If that is really the reason, then, why don't you start a campaign against the MEK, if you agree that MEK is a treacherous terrorist cult, instead of posting again and again and again the same worn out and mostly irrational questions?What have you done in this direction? Then, again, you may actually want the MEK be de-listed. If so, why don't you admit it, since you expect NIAC admit its "sins?"
I agree with the content of the article. I have written my own [four of them over the past 2 months, with one more coming] articles about MEK, two on truth-out.com, one on antiwar.com, and one on PBS/Frontline/Tehran Bureau, explaining my views of the MEK, its history, its crimes, etc. I do not agree with everything that NIAC does, or has done in the past. I am neither a member, nor a contributor to NIAC. But, on this issue I fully and wholeheartedly support NIAC, because on this issue NIAC is right. And, because I do not consider NIAC an enemy of Iran, I can choose to support it whenever it does something with which I agree, and disagree with it at other times. This is not at the same level of complexity as cosmology or the origin of universe, for God's sake. It is actually very simple.
Mammad
ayatoilet1
by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on Sat Jul 23, 2011 03:39 PM PDTYou are right on all accounts!
I phoned one of the sponsors in house of the de-listing bill. The staff member was very knowledgeable. She pretty much said what you did. The one thing she "promised" me was they will not be armed. I do not believe her.
I think you analysis is right on. They want to get them out of Ashraf. Then recruit them into various positions. There are a million Iranians in USA. But we mostly do not go for these jobs. We definitely will not take jobs to go into Iran and blow things up. So they need these guys. The USA also fears that Iraqi government will shut it down itself. That would mean the demise of the 3000 MEK members. Therefore USA wants to move before Iraqi government permanently shuts down Ashraf.
Taking MKO/PMOI/MEK off the list is about recruitment...
by ayatoilet1 on Sat Jul 23, 2011 03:23 PM PDTI am beginging to understand / analyze why this has come up as an issue now.
Here's my two cents on this. I think there is a technical issue with getting these guys out of the Camp in Iraq. Right now if they fill out a visa application form for anywhere, they are strictly under the letter of the law "terrorists"...i.e. they belong to a terrorist orgnaisation. They literally can not move, because of this. If one of them defects, rejects the ideology, and applies for political asylum that rules are different, but the 3000 or so people in Iraq are trapped by immigration rules. By delisting them, many states can then give them a home without neccessarily providing asylum. So they are going to delist them for a short period, long enough to move them somewhere else. And I think spread them out arround the world in different places...At the same time, they can actually also recruit them for various military related tasks that are likely to emerge vis a vis Iran. Again without the terrorist designation, they can bring them into different jobs without restrictions. Right now they (agencies in US, and Europe) all need translators, and more foot soldiers on the ground inside Iran. Taking the MKO/PMOI/MEK off the list is about recruitment and shutting down camp Ashraf. Its very simple.
Having said all thati, there is no question they are terrorists, there is no question they are not popular in Iran, there is no question they are undemocratic, there is no question their leadership has a sordid and dirty history ... and there is no question that they partnered with Saddam Hussein to kill Iranians and Kurds. They are and will always be traitors to Iran.
A few points
by AMIR1973 on Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:25 PM PDTLet's be Fair ...
by Omid Parsi on Sat Jul 23, 2011 09:20 AM PDTI think the MEK are certfiably crazy, but that's just like saying they are Iranians!! Like I would not call the masses who saw Khomeini's face on the moon 32 years ago "not crazy" at all! (For all those unborn or too young to remember: it's true! I was there to witness the miracle of mass deception with my own two eyes!). I'd say the same people are not any saner today after having basked in the grace of IRI waiting for their Mahdi for that long! Just turn on their TV or see the man they voted as president!
But let's go through all the charges one by one. Let's see if it adds up to a case that can be tried and won by "Iranian People". Here is a draft of "Iranian People vs. MEK":
- Terror & Violence: I can't see what the MEK did inside Iran that cannot be attributed to self-defence. They were the first to see the writing on the wall and what was in store for anyone who had fought the Shah independently of the Khomeini mob. They simply took preemptive defensive action. That is the main reason why they are still around, or else they would mot be a "problem"
- Dangerous Cult: What about the clear, present and dangerous Shite Cult of Hidden Imam, and Iranians who want it armed with Nuclear Technology to help precipitate the promised Armageddon?
- Traitor: What about the Traitor Supreme, Khomeini ranting for Islam and Umma against Iran and Iranian Nation?
- Iraq Ties: What about Khomeini's Iraq Ties, where he lived comfortably for over a decade, conveniently agitating and conspiring to take power. Did "Iranian People" question "Imam Khomeini" as being a shady traitor for that?!
- Harmful to the (Future) Democracy Movement: What Democracy Movement?!! Whoever believes that has got to be a delusional expatriate or a Gandhi buff on their way to Canada!!
- Religious and Not Secular: Is that even a charge?!
The only thing that I can think of as to why so many love to hate the MEK is this: They fought an impossible fight and lost miserably.
In their defense I would say that at least they put up a semblance of a fight and did not play dead or a sorry ass victim. Dislodging the IRI (let's not talk anymore about reform!!) is going to take at least a little hard fighting. In ranting against the MEK, the peacenik armchair reformists are really just moaning the fact that they themselves don't stand a chance.
Another load of crap from NIAC ... tabrik
by Shazde Asdola Mirza on Sat Jul 23, 2011 07:03 AM PDT"... to remove the Mojahedin Khalq (MEK) from the U.S. list of Foreign Terrorist Organizations represents a critical threat to Iran's indigenous democratic movement."
Total BS: how NIAC has ever cared about Iran's democratic movement? Does anyone in Iran know or care that Mojahedin have been DeListed in Europe? Has that mattered the slightest bit?
"Delisting the MEK and freeing the group to inject violence into Iran's democratic opposition movement would help derail yet again Iran's century-long struggle for democracy."
No shame at all, eh? This is going to "derail" the democracy movement, or the IRI terrorists, who have received your support and collaboration?
"In this regard, there is little difference between the MEK and the regime."
... and you are treating them equally? Where are the articles-after-articles by NIAC asking for the IRI regime's status to be Listed as a Terrorist Organization? On the contrary, is it not your view that all sanctions should be lifted from the IRI terror regime?
"In 1965, the MEK was the first group to take up arms against the Shah, who in turn responded with further violence that unleashed a vicious cycle of brutal reprisals."
Yes, and the killings and torturings of Mosaddegh supporters and Iranian freedom fighters from 1953 to 1965 was Mojahedin's fault too! Go read two pages, you imbecile, before writing such garbage!
amirparvizforsecularmonarchy
by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on Fri Jul 22, 2011 08:39 PM PDTYou have some very good points. However I do not think the "Empire" is as smart as it thinks. First of all they are overstretched. Second they have advisers whose loyalty is not to America. For example Brzezinski has his main loyalty to Poland while Kissinger was most loyal to Israel. Plus all the politicians are most loyal to multi-nationals. They do not give a *** about the Empire. Just want to make money. If China being an empire fits them tomorrow they will go for that. My guess is that the Empire is on its way out; badly run and overstretched. But it is still powerful. MEK on the other hand is not powerful and deeply hated. So I do not think most of the dumbest Iranians will fall for it. They have more support on IC than in Iran. I already said the MEK plan. They are cannon fodder for war.
USA wants to arm them; send the 3000 idiots to Iran. Then the RG will slaughter them. When that happens USA will say "we need to help these poor people". Use that as an excuse to move in and take over. The heavy lifting is for USA. That they should not kid themselves about. MEK by itself is NO threat to IRI. It will take USA or NATO to bring down the IRI. The best option for USA is to let the MEK be slaughtered; then go in. That way they kill two birds with one stone. Get rid of the MEK problem and the IRI. Then hold "elections" and get a nice puppet.
Problem solved! Then make sure to hold elections every 4-6 years to get a new puppet. Because if they stay too long they may get to uppity and refuse to be good dogs. US don't like bad puppets. The plan worked in Russia for a while. They got a drunk idiot as "President". Until Putin came along and whipped them into shape! Maybe this will happen in Iran as well. But I tell you MEK will never gain power; they are dog meat and tools for US to start a war.
vpk jaan
by shushtari on Fri Jul 22, 2011 08:21 PM PDTI know.....as I said, I don't like the MEK myself....but this whole process is rattling the mullahs big time......
I don't think they have any chance whatsoever, but I do thank them for taking out a lot of filthy akhoonds in the 80s.....their ideology is wacked, but they were they only ones who actually sent some of these swine to hell a few years early
IRI does have reason to fear MEK
by amirparvizforsecularmonarchy on Fri Jul 22, 2011 07:57 PM PDTAnd so do we all, I know for us they are unpopular traitors, but for 20 million Iranians that are brain washed muslims living on less than $100 a month, and seeing how the mullahs live are going to be natural candidates for their socialistic, communistic talk.
MEK is not based on intellectuals, neither is islam for that matter, these are donkey magnets.
While Republics are criminal magnets, everyone can be king if they can swindle, like obama.
We are not talkng about an Institution like monarchy that attracts people with a high level of education and class, focussed on eliminating anti-social/criminal elements out of politics.
With $4 billion and the stats I mentioned, you'd have to be a total loser if you couldn't close 1% or 200,000 people to a $20,000 per person position. or a 2-5,000% pay raise, that is centered on the idea of equality and islam.
The Creators of the Empire of America are no dummies, they are total machiavelists, which is why they will harp about democracy, freedom and justice, knowing it is people natural desire.
And then they'll give them MEK, just to remind everyone that keeps forgetting we are dealig with an empire that wants domination over the region.
They have 2 excellent options, 1 is a sure bet, the MEK
the other is the democracy movement within Iran, that is a gold mine too if it could just succeed a liitle more to weaken regime and bring the rafsanjani backed crowd to power, what they wouldn't do to make that dream happen and dominate iranians at the hands of their own people, purchased for cash.
LOL ... Disenchanted
by Soosan Khanoom on Fri Jul 22, 2011 07:32 PM PDTBMW ....
I wish they would change the topic to " BMW" may be then they could come up with better arguments and of course much more entertaining one.......
SK, VPK Thanks...
by Disenchanted on Fri Jul 22, 2011 07:13 PM PDTThese folks don't get it! They could be MEK supporters in disguise. After all the history of this group is so shameless, we are yet to see someone comes up saying I am a member. It's that UGLY!
...and for the thousand time this is not about NIAC! Just as it is not about NFL or MLB or BMW or Sheghygheh! ;-)
Shushtari Jan
by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on Fri Jul 22, 2011 07:05 PM PDTI am one of the loudest anti-MEK voices on IC. You have read my posts before. Do you really think I am an IRI groupie? Please do not assume that about all of us. Yes IRI has its own groupies. But not all of us are that.
I also do not think that MEK poses a real threat to IRI. Instead they pose a threat to Iranian people. Why:
I want the IRI gone but this is not going to do it.