Amir Parviz for secular monarchy

I finally figured out salman farsi

good sarcasm.

for an islamic democracy...

preferably created in the usa or uk  ... he, he,

I agree! The Islamic democracy

على الديمقراطية الإسلامية

 For an Islamic democracy

Don't freak out please.

Please stop freaking out from MKO.  They met the US officials’ needs because they were able to negotiate and be in a power position.  They also met Reza Pahlavi’s needs years ago when they kept having meetings together even though I am supporting Reza Pahlavi now.  MKO people are Iranians.  They fight for Iran whole their life.  Their problem was they felt insecure, and they lived in army style rather than be civilized. 

They certainly have many problems.  They have no idea what freedom and democracy is.  They take the children from the adopted parents because the parents did not cooperate with MKO.  They forced Islamic attire on their members, and so on.   Anyway, believe me IRI is in a very strong position, and they are not going to let MKO make any move without their permissions.

One suggestion.

Why are we following China and Russia as models?  Why not IRI?  Really.   

We were able to pay for one month rent in countries like the US 20 years ago if we sold a house or a condo in Iran.  Now we can buy a house and sometimes several houses in Western countries if we sell a house in Iran.  What about travelling Iranians at present?  How many Iranians had seen Turkey, Dubai, Singapore, Malaysia, China, India, occasionally Canada and Europe before?  Why don’t you ask a friend or a family member in Iran now?  I bet most of their neighbors even in Shoosh area have gone to those countries. 

Why are we closing our eyes as always?  Everything is relative.  Isn't it?  As long as we stick our eyes in Iranian media and ignoring the world we are not able to hear the Chinese and Russian load weeping and crying from harassment, torture, corruption and abuse.  Are we going to make China and Russia our goal now? One suggestion: why don't we take a break from the Iranian media and concentrate on world news?

DK Constitutional Monarchies with Parliamentary Democracies

DK I find the most decent societes to live in around the world are places like the uk, sweden, denmark, holland etc, constitutional moarchies all of them, the only problem for me is the weather.

They are way ahead in terms of freedom and development than iran and size, location etc.  Still it's a nice goal to have.  How to implement in our lifetime looks out of the question, they are literally centuries ahead of Iran.

Also our people as a result of what they have are the prey, lunch of these countries and so in practice it's going to be tough saving iran and changing its fate from that of the continent of Africa, towards a society where human rights, justice, freedom, peace and harmony are present.

Unifying Iranians under a patriotic, cultural theme other than religion is key to building a society where most people participate and unite in realizing their own ideals.  For most of our history, pre-islamic, human rights were discovered by other civilizations from taking lessons from persians. Today not so.

amirparvizforsecularmonarchy

Informative.

Comments... we have lots to learn from many regarding

what they have done for their own people.

Especially the late Shah that the west opposed with all it's coercive power.

What one should look for in addition to the most noble system, is a system that has lead the way in setting the standard of honesty and decency.

You would not be coming from a genuine place if you were to list italy, france, germany, the usa, the uk, highly on that list based on the history of neo-colonialism in the last 40 years.  That's not propaganda, you can't even pick up a paper these days without hearing the murky unlawful dealings of the media in the past decade under murdoch's leadership, within democracies.  These guys are paid to praise their own system, that's not honesty at work.   

Comments, just about anything IRI does screws Iran

just because it is done, by a buch of stupid, cunning, lying, thieving, uneducated, low self respect, self indoctrinated fools that refuse to learn from reality.

Shahs approach was good had he not been betrayed, china and russia's approach is far better based on results.  

China has more millionaires all self made (not inherited) than any other country on earth today and growing, we have more to learn from people with a long history and culture of success and triumph, more like our own... Take the good and leave the bad and for now..that is what china did, ts what japan did too.. not saying don't learn from success American spirit has much to teach the world.

As for democracy

spit out democracy as far as you can if you desire freedom and justice for iranians, because those are the 2 things you will compromise, like india does compromise the freedom of 95% of it's people, if you go for power sharing without institutions developed.

amirparvizforsecularmonarchy

Does the IRI anti-US approach serve the Iran national interest?

Cannot we learn from what the US has done for its own people?

The West has been Funding MEK for years now

If they let go of that one then we should all pursue democracy.

But lets go for MEK first, because we are told how decent they are... like they told us what a ghandi figure khomeini was.

reason # 1/2 should for democracy should be

Because the Main Stream Media and Voice of America after pursing radical Islam for Iran, would want democracy as their #2 choice.

Comments... regarding too-anti-US subjects on blogs

Since when did being pro US ever serve Irans National interests???

Did we learn nothing from 1979 and the US betrayal of the Shah and now his son for 32 years.

And the Shahs represent Irans Freedom, Traditions, Culture, unique peoples and languages.

Not that that would matter to anyone wanting to lead iranians from freedom towards tyranny and misery.

Ari Jan If What you say is true I'm all for Team Work ;0)

If what you claim is True I'm sure We can Co Author it then ...

;0) 

As for Constitutional Monarchies I am sure you would concur that in the same Way a Republic like France did not become a Perfect Secular Democracy overnight, Great Britain did not become a Perfect Constitutional Monarchy overnight either ( all the more that to make the long story short it truly became one after Restoring it's Monarchy after a Religious Theocracy very similar in nature to that of the IRI).

As such I don't see why aspiring to seeing Iran become a Secular Republic should be deemed as more legitimate a demand than seeing it become a Perfect Constitutional Monarchy ?

Both should have a say including in a Post IRI Iran. For as you know even Great Britain tolerates parties however marginal demanding the abolishing of the Monarchy in the same way France tolerates parties demanding a restoration of the Monarchy.

There should be an avenue for all which only a Free and Fair election can determine the ultimate outcome.  

Also I am sure you already know that Persia/ Iran actually experienced democracy in the form of a Constitutional Monarchy under the last two previous dynasties for approximately 21 years and 40 days in all by the time of the Coup of 1953 when the Constitution itself was barely 47 years old.  12 years of which under the last Shah, which makes Mohamed Reza Shah Pahlavi the Only King in Iran's Entire History to have Reigned and Not Ruled for the longest Period of Time according to More or Less Fully Democratic Standards similar to Parliametary Democracies in Western Europe at the time:

THE PAST IS A FOREIGN COUNTRY: How Would You Evaluate Iran's Democracy Index in 1953 ? 

Which given the deemed 25 centuries of Absolutist tradition  (or to use one of those Fashionable Words your Constituency likes to throw in all the time, i.e: 'Estebdad' ... ) was quite a record and accomplishment in itself.

Given that at the time of the so called Coup, Iran's Constitutional history was barely 50 years old and that our country, including it's elite had not entirely absorbed the 'concept' nor fully digested the set of rules which normally operate it:

How Truly Democratic And Stable Is The British Monarchy?

No more than we would have handled it any better under a Republican Rule at that juncture (not because people were less intelligent but because as a nation like in the rest of the region (including Turkey's Secularist Military Junta) we were inexperienced in terms of democratic thought and practice all the more that apart from a minor educated elite some of whom proved to be far more rebellious than constructive in their democratic instincts the large majority of our people were poor and illiterate to fully understand the benefits of a sophisticated democratic government).

The fact that in the Middle East today upheavals are equally shaking Republics ( Syria, Libya, Yemen) and Monarchies ( Jordan, Morocco, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia) prove that the dilemmas faced by these regimes are the same and the fact that there is a contrast between let's say the way Syria's President has Cracked down on it's people where as Morocco's King on the contrary has peacefully conceded on democratic guarantees proves if anything that a democratic mindset cannot be reduced to some simplistic Black and White definition.

From that point of view, and however cynical, Edmund Burke's critical outlook on the French revolution has never been as pertinent as to what we are witnessing in the region today:

Short Introduction to the ideas of Irish born British Political thinker Edmund Burke  (1729-1797): 

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhnyTo4oJv8

Proving if needed that Democracy is first and foremost a mindset which demands maturity and cannot take root overnight.

Jeremy Bowens:

//www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-14153583

Egypt secularists and liberals afraid of democracy ? (bbc)

If it's so difficult to achieve today despite all the means of communication ranging from the Internet of the FB generation to Satellite Television, then imagine how difficult and unrealistic it was to expect Iran to be perfectly democratic in 53 and the years that followed it up to the Revolution of '79.

As such the Iranian Monarchy truly deserves more than just a friendly nod or a tap on the shoulder ! 

But it's not because achieving democracy may prove difficult or that democracy can at times even be counterproductive to the stability of a region that there should not be a starting point.

To me Constitutionalism is the best compromise I can think of between democratic ideals we all aspire to and the cultural and historical particularities which have defined us as a nation.

My Humble Opnion,

DK 

Russia's success and growing freedom

Russia will be the 5th wealthies country in the world in less that 8 years, unless republicans win and decide to unleash ww3 on them. 

As you know their experience with democracy was a total failure, as will ours be (we are not even as smart, co-operative or educated as them) and it was not until the autocracy of putin that domination of russia stopped and all the wests coercive power within russia came crashing down.

As for China, they have today more millionaires than any other country in the world not just due to wetsern markets, but because they are an indespensible asset to any economy in the world, they do more for the usa than the other way around.  Much more.

Our problem is first every major power in the world is united that islam in government is good for iran.  That will take a miracle to free from.

After that everyone just loves democracy for iran. 

Maybe it is because they are fully aware the institutions that allow for democracy themselves can only be built after a country enjoys basic economic freedoms and even then the quickest that they can be developed is over 30 years, due to cultural issues in irans case maybe twice as long.

If iran can ever become a democracy it will not be in the masochistic, western sense of the word, without justice.  And it won't be in the way that many smaller countries like israel have it, in total subordination to foreign govts, like eu and usa.  Iran is too strategically located to be a puppet country.  Which clearly iran was not under the Shah, who they destroyed via betrayal, because it was too independent.

Democracy will only be digestable within Iran after secularism succeeds, after economic freedom has been established for vast majority and while the justice system is developing to be independent (does not have to be totally independent as that will take the longest, maybe over 100 years just to develop the people & institutions).

If the Iranians tomorrow vote for democracy, in less than 20 years the people themselves will over turn it as they see their country becoming more like india, corrupt poor backwards, than china or russia.  Those who speak up for it, like those before them will see their carreers, fame and reputation ruined as it is far, far from being a deliverable product to the satisfaction of an ordinary human being.  Not that misery will discourage iranians from pursuing anything as we see with islam.

Great blog. Well done.

Great blog. Well done.

Amirparviz

You make some excellent points, particulary regarding democracy still being more of a divisive force for Iran than for nations with already established democracies (it is divisive for them too, just not as much). Which is why we should keep the monarchy in reserve as we try and try again for a democracy. Attacks on the institution of the monarchy have to have better reasons than vendetta.

As for China's power, I'm sure you are aware that their success still relies heavily on high Western consumption brought about by the richer economies of those democracies.  Maybe, as they say, we can "throw away the ladder that the West has built" now that we've climbed to the roof, but the Soviets tried advanced industrialization in isolation from the West and without a democracy; it went unstable and became extinct. 

Ari that explanation goes against Irans true history

For the last 800 years in Iran we have all been pursing islam with disasterous effects.  That is the true source of Tyranny in Iran, it is a tyranny of thought and expression, which before the pahlavi's controlled the courts, schools, and all elements of society.

Pointing complex social problem with the monarchy is not accurate.

The pahlavi's were the first kings for a long time to free Iran by separating church and state, their record is in the fruits of not just what results Iran enjoyed, but the proof that true despotism and tyranny levelled at them ad their country was not just from commies ad mullahs, but democracies pretending to serve human rights.

Take a look at the success of the one party non democratic system of china, which the free world can not stop.  From last year and every year of our lives from this point on they will be #1 in many respects. 

In pursuing justice and freedom before democracy, while you lose out on power sharing, you gain in other ways.  Chinese can't be dominated from within exactly because they are not a democracy.  They just made and sold 18 million cars last year, more than any other country in the world.  The only certain way for Iran to be dominated and not have freedom is to pursue democracy first.

The only real choices for Iran to achieve freedom are things that unify all iranian people, either a monarchy or a single party system based on patriotism, or both.  Democracy for iran is not unifying but divisive as you can see in the degree of unity to remove tyranny from within iran.

Poem not by Ferdowsi.

As you have always emphasized, a constitutional monarchy is a different political system than Iran's absolute monarchies to which my comment refers.

By the way, the poetry recitation in your first link is first rate, but the poem is highly unlikely to be an original Ferdowsi. Since I am certain that no expert would authenticate it as an original, and since the modern author has not identified him/herself I will be happy to claim authorship of this beautiful poem without having violated any copyrights. It would be better if you claimed it though; "Darius Kadivar" works better than "Ari Siletz" for such a work.

Hmm ... Well Ari Jaan Speaking of Copyright Infringments ;0)

Seems You Jomhurykhah Folks Have been Pirating all the way:

Words For Eternity ...

pictory: Bakhtiar Denounces Bazargan's Provisionary Government in exile (1979)

Which did not stop you to ""Fetchez La Vache" ...

Ezatollah Entezami ( Star of Mehrjui's "Gav") Bold Tribute To Shah’s Brother In Law Mehrdad Pahlbod on IRI TV 

;0)

One argument for democracy in Iran

The West was able to dominate the world because democratic elements of their societies stood in larger proportion to despotic elements in comparison to other societies. For example, the relatively secure right to ownership without fear of confiscation by a despot allowed large businesses to grow generation after generation and become an incentive to grow strong institutions of law and trade. This led to more powerful economies (and militaries), which in turn produced more leisure and resources (and booty) for the pursuit of sciences and the arts, which in turn fed back into the economy, creating an avalanche of progress.

Absolute monarchies in Iran prevented such developments. Property ownership--among other rights that are better protected in democracies-- was not a right, but a privilege granted by the monarch to be taken away at his whim. So there was no incentive in our society for long term economic activities that lead to civil institution building. 

As a smaller modern analogy, consider the copyright laws. If we were allowed to pirate the works of others with impunity (as Iranian monarchs were), big productions--such as Hollywood movies--would become impossibe because there would be no reward for the effort. Films would remain a home made affair--assuming that by some miracle cameras were even manufactured in this fictional pirate universe (though quite real in Iran under absolute monarchies).

Any argument for pursuing non-democratic paths for Iran must first rebut the above logic--unless we accept as a premise that Iranians find happiness in being dominated by outsiders. 

I really don't know what was

I really don't know what was going on in IC these days.  Why are so too-anti-US subjects on blogs?  I understand you are triggering fanatics, but come on guys.... I think the first step towards freedom is to be able to express the freedom in words, which happens in many countries except Iran.  The analysis of actions comes later in my priorities since the expression brings awareness. 

Reason #11,

It is the supported method of government by the USA and Voice of America's show Parazit.  That's a great reason to be for it no?

Have I helped convert anyone?

Common guys Human rights and democracy have been said to go hand in hand, and we should believe that, shouldn't we???