Sic Semper Tyrannis

Ali Mostofi

Princeton?!!!  Why did you make that mistake?  You should have gone to a real school.  :-))  Sorry - but a bit of rivalry ribbing.  I'm an alumnus of a rival school. 

Anyway, you have some very valid points.  I was pretty much an infant when the revolution was happening.  But after reading so much about the events of the time, listening to parents, friends and relatives who were adults at the time, and watching news and other footage about the devolution of 1979, I have to say that I grudglingly agree with Zendanian when he says that Shah's greatest enemy was himself.  From trying to appease the clergy in the hopes of being left alone, to abandoning power too easily, Shah brought this misery upon himself--and us by extension.

I am always of the opinion that had Shah transferred power to his son (knowing that he was ill)--or at least some form of a council until his son was older--the new king would have been FORCED into submitting to some form of a constitutional monarchy.  It would have been inevitabe.  Iran's political atmosphere would not have allowed anything else.  

But there were other factors at work.  There were way too many interests who wanted the Shah out of the way.  Add to that the ultra-religious nature of our society and culture and Shah's own shortcomings and you will end up with the Islamic Republic.  It was the perfect storm that Shah never saw coming.  Too bad...

Forgive me if I don't respond further, but I'm trying to take some time off from IC to catch up with work.

Excellent points though.  Thanks for sharing your thoughts. 

Two corrections

First, to correct a factual error. Automatic "birthright" citizenship was enshrined in the US constitution after the civil war. So even with Ron Paul as president, US-born children of immigrants will not lose their citizenship, even if AO's comment about Ron Paul's intentions could be taken at face value.

Also, it is wrong to conclude that you can never have influence in this country if you are perpetually waiting to go back to your homeland. No better proof of that than the Cuban exile Mafia in Miami. They set US policy towards Cuba, and they do measure everything in terms of whether it helps or hurts the current government there.

A long but important post

AO: I do not know how old you are, but I am 55. I was at Princeton when all this was unraveling. As you can imagine, we had pretty high level discussions at the time about all the permutations.

At the time we needed two very important pieces of information that was not made apparent soon enough, that could have helped to save Iran.

The first piece of information.
The Shahanshah decided to not tell people that he was seriously ill. He left Iran not because he was ill, but because Bakhtiar asked him to, so that it might calm people down.

The Shah had to capture the hearts and mind of the people towards the culture of Iran. The Royal Institution of Iran has one objective. It is to preserve the culture of Iran. People had been mesmerized by the very thought of Democracy and were about to throw out the baby with the bath water.

All the Shah had to do to was to go to a hospital in Iran and give put the Prince in his place. The media would be watching him more than Khomeini. He would have won the hearts and minds of all Iranians.

The second piece of information
Once the Shahanshah had left Iran, the armed forces were told that Iran's security was not threatened. Fact is that the internal security of Iran was lost by the civilian police, and the armed forces were about to establish military rule under the statutes of the Iranian Constitution.

Now this is the tricky bit. The head of Iranian Armed Forces was told by Fardoost that Iran's security situation only applied in circumstances when the borders were threatened. This was a lie.

So what happened was that Khomeini decided that he will cooperate with the Army. The Army stepped aside. Khomeini and the PLO took over the streets. Later all the Generals were shot.

That is the true story. US Generals were are very instrumental in all this. The Shah was later poisoned and the mayhem destroyed Iran.

@alimostofi
FB: astrologer.alimostofi

Ali Mostofi

Good observations.  But I'm not suggesting that military service should be the objective.  I'm suggesting it as the vehicle through which Iranian political candidates can gain credibility in a hostile environment, just like Se, Inouye did in a post WWII anti-Japanese environment.  

My own counsin is a U.S. Marine.  He is on his third tour of duty.  One in Iraq and two in Afghanistan.  While He doesn't seem to have political aspirations, I am constantly urging him to run for office at some point, once he finishes his education.  

And you pose a very interesting question: would there have been a more intense opposition to the IR if the intelligentsia had remianed in Iran post 1979 devolution? First, we have to assume that there was, in fact, a meaningful and substantial intelligentsia class in Iran that left post 1979.  Assuming, for the sake of the argument that was indeed the fact, I do not believe that it would have made a difference had they remained in Iran for two reasons:

1) most of the Iranian intelligentsia class at the time was pro revolution and had thrown in its lot with the Khmeinist, and it would have been extremely difficult for them to gain credibility with the people as independent entities.

2) the Islamic Republic had--and still has--as its enforcement arm, a hardcore "lumpen" hoodlum base / security aparatus that would have brutally and violenetly crushed any kind of a dissent and pressure on the system (as it did with other opposition).  Think of the 1930's and the Nazis.  Thinnk about what happened to German intellectuals who challenged The Nazis.  

IMHO, it would not have worked. 

Back to the Future

AO: I do not mean to blow your proposition totally out of the water, but we have Iranian Americans who served in the Korean war and recently in Iraq.

As I have written in my previous articles, The United States is an easy refuge for all intelligensia. The brain and monetary drain in Iran, has been particularly acute.

Ironically if there was a particular place for the Ayatollah clans to seek refuge, we probably would get a regime change in Iran fairly swiftly.

My personal view is that once the regimes in North Africa get rubbed the wrong way by a more radical policy in US, then the Ayatollah clans Seyyeds etc will all go and settle there. In fact many of them have a lot vested interests in holy places in Iraq and Syria. That is why they are supporting the regimes there tooth and nail.

Now flip it all this the other way round and flash back to 1979. Imagine there was no way for people to get out Iran in droves as they did. The intelligencia would then not sell out of Iran and go and set up in US. The result would have been a more pronounced resistance to the madmen.

@alimostofi
FB: astrologer.alimostofi

I'm getting to know

the personalities here. It's been an interesting social study.

Anyway, AO, in light of your post, I would like to hear your perspective on this-- why so much fervent political talk here on IC? Does this have concomitant behavior in local and national public spheres?

Do you think "political engagement" in the likes of IC leads to anything beyond?

Thank goodness you're here "SnakeCharmer"

There is a snake here that I need you to get rid off for me.  It goes by various names including, but not limited to: MaryamJoon and Frashogar.  You know him, right? :-)) (wink, wink).

Back to the "disconnect" comment

hi,

I'm new here. I've been reading this thread for the last few days with fascination.

The level of political talk and discourse (and to be sure lots of dissent and argumention) offered here at IC far outpaces what I observe in the "real world" among Iranians in the diaspora.

What gives?

DM jaan

Let these fossils be.  They are consonant West hating, yet West residing & West benifiting "revolutionaries."  This particular sample hails from Denmark, where he once claimed to be a member of an "opposition group," (whoop-di-doo).  :-)))

These people ignore, justify, remian silet on, or even support this:

//emvergeoning.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/jahangir-razmi-iran-executi.jpg

They are the reaon why our homeland is where it is today, not America, not Israel, not Russia nor any other country on this planet.  These people put --and have been putting for the past 33 years- ideology over the interest of Iran and Iranians.  The good thing is that they are out of Iran.  They were the first once to pack up with their tails between their legs and flee the "paradise" that they created.  And now his main concern is Palestine.  Have you ever seen him write anything about the oppression in Iran, or the execution of thousands there?  Never!  But here he is crying his eyes out for Palestine: 

//iranian.com/main/blog/meybokhor-manbarbesuzan/intimidators-koor-khundin-0

Let them be.  They're not worth your (or my) time.

Be good. 

AO jan

Baba please, the next time you plan on writing something up, put up a disclaimer with letters in bold so our precious or maybe some "precocious" ones know right off the bat, thay can not be DRUNK and write comments at the same time!

Do not Drink and Write. Please people. Wrinting while you are drunk is a sin!

But just to show my honorable intentions and that i am in no way trying display any vile ambitions I hereby suggest a domain name:

Boro-jelo-boogh-bezan.com or .ir.

Wonderful!

Let's see...

"corporate slaves"

"massa"

"Japanese jackass"

"doogh-drinker"

"brown shirts"

What a wonderful comment.  Thanks for sharing your worldview. :-)

What a fossil and a relic of the past... 

PS- you may want to remove that poor baby's photo from your avatar.  S/he will sue you when s/he grows up for abuse and defamation.

Thanks DM jaan -

See you soon.

Another proposal for your site's title

Brown-Shirts.org

A couple of false assumptions

1) Using one's constitution given rights to vote for Ron Paul is not un-American. Ron Paul is as much American as the other two corporate slaves.

2) The stupid cartoon you are so found of, just shows how low some Iranians get to gain approval from their "massa." Depicting Iranians as suicide bombers or playing Iranian terrorist mothers to attain a B-rated movie carrier will never make you more American. Pay the rent, maybe!

3) If this regime the Japanese jackass was so loyal to was worth serving, how come it sent Japanese-Americans to concentration camps? Is that how loyalty is rewarded?

At that point he was only American. And if that is what you are promoting, why are you here on this site anyway? Start a site called something like:

former-iranian.com   or

persian-speaking.com   or

doogh-drinker.com ... you catch the drift.

Ananymous Observer khan

you can rest-assured that even if she does not come back in her original form and shape! there will be others who will keep her seat warm for you and continue to concoct all kinds of slights for you right behind your back. By the looks of it, they may even visit you in your sleep.

You could poignantly see that in the comments of Mr. fault finder in and around the blogs, immediately posted after your own comments.

Hey i think I heard someone who sounded just like him at the DNC last night. He kept sending subliminal messages...My fellow democrats...we have gathered here today to honor..."iranian.com is run by zionists" a man who has been one the greates presidents since JFK, "iranian.com and AO and DM are Israel lobbyists".

Best of luck to you on your time off. You know you and your materials will be missed. Get'er done man!:) 

"Hope she returns..."

so that I can beat up on her a bit, and then "enjoy" the beat down that I get in return from her.

Sounds kinky.

Rea - you're right

I was referring to her own suggestion before she left that she may return under another username.  But she's not here, and we shouldn't speak ill of her.  So, I went ahead and edited my comment.  I alwyas liked NP despite my differences with her positions.  Hope she returns so that I can beat up on her a bit, and then "enjoy" the beat down that I get in return from her. 

Thanks for the reminder. 

Before Admin

I have more faith on you, AO. In a real life, the judgment is 'reserved' for God, here in virtual world, we got Admin!!

If I have another user ID the Admin's wrath would come down on me and he would block my mamor account!!! deal!!??

U know better!! u r not a 5 years old 'boy'!! generating propaganda at what cost?? honesty!!

I wear an Omega watch

مردم چرا نشستین ایران شده فلسطین؟

For those IC readers that can't read Persian, the line above is a popular street protest chant of people in  Iran, that asks the question:

People why have you sat down, Iran has become Palestine?

This is the question that IR and its agents, on this site and outside of here, should ask themselves.

So the question becomes, what degree of violence and corruption, what degree of military occupation and hatred have Iranian people felt from Islamic Republic of Hell, to compare Iran, our own country, to occupied Palestine?

Perhaps this is a query that IR's apologists in here will never have a response to. Because they know all too well what an honest answer to that would mean.

Incidentally, one moral conclusion to draw from all of this would be: IR's agents have zero credibility, repeat: ZERO CREDIBILITY, condemning Israel or any other country other than Islamic Republic of Hell, for IR in about three decades has made all those other countries look so good, its truly beyond imagination.

AO n @Dr Mohandes

Cherish your enemies as you cherish your friends.

NP was a mighty opponent, doubt she's hiding among "so n so". For so n so have no arguments, s/he had.

HFB

First, I'm not sure if NIAC is the proper vehicle by which Iranian-American interests can advance.  That organization has a lot of baggae, and let's face it, a lot of suspecious ties to the Islamic Republic, which a lot of Iranians find to be the root of the problem.  There are other Iranians organizations.  I think that most progress will come from professional Iranian associations and youth oriented ones.  Please also bear in mind that the IR's sophisticated countr-intelligence oerations for the past 33.5 have intentionally caused division and animosity among the Iranian diaspora.  That has been their greatest accomplishment.

Second, as far as your attending the NIAC event, I have my own opinions, which I will keep to myself.

Third, I commend you for your efforts to publicize Dr. Milad Pooran's candidacy. Your blog about him is how I found out about it.  Good job on that front, and please keep it up.  That's exactly the type of effort we need from the Iranian community.

Fourth, about the blog photo: lighten up please!  The first order of business is for us to be able to laugh at our flaws.  

next generation

Anonymous Observer: I agree that the proportion of individual accomplishment doesn't match political represenation. Look - I attended one NIAC event and went through hell for it, and chose to cease my membership. No community will survive like that and have a real voice, if they can't put up with differences.

Better luck to the next generation - I guess - and I do think those born in the US don't have the baggage and can learn to listen and put up with differences  better.

But the art work here, was a little offensive - if you don't mind me saying - our individual achievement in the US has been sensational - this isn't what those success stories walking through American malls, look like.

and besides

To add to AO, the "top most educated successful minority" status of Iranian-Americans is contested:

//www.pewsocialtrends.org/2012/06/19/the-rise-of-asian-americans/

The fact that we have almost no presence in American politics actually puts Iranian-Americans at the very bottom of the minority success chain. 

HFB

very simple.  Despite our accomplishments in the areas mentioned, we have no influence on policy in the U.S.  Hence: the disconnect. Communities which may not be ranked as high have better representation in the American political system.   

This seems "silly"

Last time I checked - from among 66 ethnic communities in the US - Iranian-Americans were ranked the most educated and accomplished.

From the first female space tourist - to Ebay - to some of the best US surgeouns - to CNN anchors and beyond.

Maybe it's me - but I didn't get this. 

DM jaan - as you know

I do not eat chicken, or even fish or eggs.  But as you also know, we need those items for our upcoming neighborhood party, where we will be featuring our regional cooking--ours, of course, being from Tel Aviv itself. So, yes, please buy the chickens (make sure they're from a cage free organic farm though), and also some noon-khaameii and ash reshteh from the Iranian restaurant around the corner.  I've just been craving those since Shaul Mofaz's mother made them for us last month at her "welcome Israel lobbyists" home party.

Thanks roomie.. 

khamenei toilet paper

That's actually a pretty good marketing idea.

But here's something similar:

//photos1.blogger.com/x/blogger/762/685/400/771444/khomwdog.jpg 

AO jan

Sure thing bro. The guy said they were out of fish, but had some imported chicken from iran! should i get that one? 

Hey, you think we should call over the two sisters that just moved next door to us? I saw one of them chanting some anti-zionist slogans on the streets this morning and kinda winked at me and said, hey you! wanna get me drunk tonight? i told her, lemme consult with my roomated and will get back to you.

One of them covers her whole entire face and the other just the part from nose down. i don't know man. up to you. let me know alright?:)) oh and she said she is familiar with all available relaxation methods and knows how to satisfy our physiological needs. i was like WTF are you talking about?:))

Mamoor joon

It is an established anatomical fact that the creatures with tails, have it stuck to their back already. the expression my dear mamooriii googoori is as follows: "put their tails between their legs and got the hell out".

God gives some money to me and some thinking power to mamoor.

Rea

I miss NP.  She was a good blogger.  Hope she returns.  

As I have said before

Dr. Mohandes and I are roommates in an apartment in Tel Aviv that is built on confiscated Palestinian land.  

BTW, DM jaan, don't forget when you go to the supermarket today: we need eggs, matza balls and some Gefilte fish.  And pick up some of that Khamenei toilet paper that you got the other day.  It's very soft and soothing.