The only Republican to vote for healthcare

The only Republican to vote for healthcare
by Anonymouse
08-Nov-2009
 

Last night as I was getting ready to watch Saturday Night Live, there was breaking news that the healthcare bill has passed the house and one Republican has voted for the bill. 

Last year I wrote a blog about him at persianmirror.com. 

This lone Republican is Joseph Cao who won William Jefferson's seat last year after he was found guilty of bribery for stashing $200,000 in cold (literally) hard cash in his freezer!  Last year about this time he was being interviewed by Betty Nguyen from CNN, another Vietnamese American, after he had won this heavily democratic district.

She asked him how did you win and he answered honestly that he was hoping there would be low turnout.  So he won and now he can tell his district to come and vote en mass!  Having a Vietnamese barber for the past 6 years and few co-workers at work I know alittle about Vietnamese culture and I talked with them about him last year. Vietnamese cuisine is by the way much much healtier than Chinese food.

I really like him and he has shown his courage as well as representing his district by voting for this bill. Everybody knows him now and he's an interesting political figure to follow!

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more from Anonymouse
 
Esfand Aashena

Sarah Palin is hosting ashoura dinner at her house tonight!

by Esfand Aashena on

Gheymeh polo with turkey and all the trimmings!  The mourning will start at noon sharp!

Yes Faramarz jaan I believe it'll boost Obama's re-election but Palin and Romney will now advocate the repeal of the law by electing Romney.  Chief Justice Roberts said that when the issue is the "unconstitutionality of the statue" the aim of the court should be to "conserve the legislation not destroy it". 

It took Congress decades to pass this legislation and as you know they needed nearly 60% of the vote in Senate (Kennedy dying at last minute) and majority in House to pass this, so it'd have been cowardly to have it fail, not to mention the constitutionality.

Now the US can have healthcare law for all its citizens and lower healthcare costs.  Not emergency room healthcare otherwise known as GOP's healthcare plan that was costing all of us an arm and a leg! 

 Everything is sacred


Anahid Hojjati

Thanks Esfand. Today is a bad day for Republicans

by Anahid Hojjati on

and I told a republican friend that if today is a bad day for them, it will only get worse after election. Even though in eyes of some Iranian Americans, there is not much difference between republican and democrats, I don't agree. I really prefer democrats, Particularly in areas such as health care, workplace laws, and women, democrats are much better.


Faramarz

Thanks for the Update Esfand Jaan

by Faramarz on

 

 

This will solidify Obama's re-election chances and hopefully will increase the likelihood of a thoughtful and decisive foreign policy in the next 4 years.


Esfand Aashena

Supreme Court upholds health-care law, individual mandate!

by Esfand Aashena on

Chief Justice Roberts joined the majority and the US will now have a healthcare law!  The decision was 5-4. 

If this law had failed there would not have been any healthcare debate for decades!

Supreme Court upholds health-care law, individual mandate!

Everything is sacred


jameslesonsky

Good for him!

by jameslesonsky on

I am just saying


MeyBokhor_Manbarbesuzan

I am glad your FIRST-year associates take home $185,00 while:

by MeyBokhor_Manbarbesuzan on

WASHINGTON (AP) -- More than one in seven American households struggled to put enough food on the table in 2008, the highest rate since the Agriculture Department began tracking food security levels in 1995.

That's about 49 million people, or 14.6 percent of U.S. households. The numbers are a significant increase from 2007, when 11.1 percent of U.S. households suffered from what USDA classifies as ''food insecurity'' -- not having enough food for an active, healthy lifestyle.
...The report also showed an increasing number of children in the United States are suffering. In 2008, 16.7 million children were classified as not having enough food, 4.3 million more than in 2007.
-------------------------

Those baby sharks (first year leaches) can stuff their money where the sun don't shine as far as I am concerned.


Anonymouse

I say tomato you say potato

by Anonymouse on

Craig jaan you're just taking my comments, be it left or right, and just slamming it right or left. I say uiversal healthcare, you say Govt take over; I say W as the leader of Republicans smaller Govt logo spent more than anyone else in history, you say Democrats tax and spend, I say tomato you say potato!

I've already said I'm not in favor of total Govt take over but but want Govt involvement and I gave many examples which you dismissed as potatoEs!

Healthcare was cheap in 70s? Shock and awe! So was everything else but once insurance companies (and other companies) learned how to game the system and make their own rules as they went along, they made things more expensive for us and more profit for them and as the population grew, they just made mo money and mo money. 

I mentioned banks failing and Govt bailing them out, you say I'm advocating Govt take over of banking industry.  I mention FAR you say you don't know what it is yet know enough to say it is responsible for $700 paper towel.

If I say Govt involvement in baseball and steroids, are you going to say Govt take over of baseball?

So yes, I want Govt involvement and Govt option.  This is what I mean by reform. Did you see me mentioning Europe or Canada?  No because I understand America is different and we need a healthvcare that best help us and customized for us.  That does not include Govt take over of healthcare.

Another example of Republicans saying one thing and doing another; W said no nation building yet tax payers money went to building roads and hospitals for Iraq and Afghsnistan and Republicans in congress voted for him, line sinker and hook.  So everything Republicans say they are against, they've already voted for it during ther 8 years of W.

So don't come back or say Govt take over or that it will lead to it.  You say Republicans were not invited? What was that taking public option off the table?  That was Democrats way of bringing Republicans along, but nooo they want "more" which means nothing.  Republicans healthcare plan = nothing!

If Limbaugh were to became President with Glenn Beck as his VP, they'd still do many of the things W or his daddy has already done and tax and spend.  Staying on sidelines and saying something and doing something when you have responsibilities is something else.

This is serious and not an opinion show.  You and I can disagree but I'm hoping it comes to fruition and then we can start working it.  This is an opportunity to do something for America and not somewhere else. We don't have to wait too much longer to find out one way or another.  

Everything is sacred.


Nousha Arzu

One more thing,

by Nousha Arzu on

Meybokhor writes, "Back then, there was still a bit more solidarity, it wan't only me, me, me."

I had to tag this again, I was laughing so much. And what decade was there a bit more "solidarity" in America? 

Might you be referring to the hashish-smoking-acid-dropping-hippie movement of the 1960's, the very movement which has proven so destructive to the traditional, hard-working fabric of this nation?

What ruined much about this country was the perverted "free-love" orgy movement of the 1960's. After the '60's, America was never her true self -- it became in many ways a perverted, porno culture, much like the Western European culture.

Take this to the bank... the youth of any culture are monumentally dumb, naive, and foolish, if not dangerous. Just look at what our Iranian youth did to our country back in 1979. By the way, many of those who rose up for Khomeini during the revolution were wanna-be hippies (and marxists), who were influenced by the 1960's hippie movement in America. Not to mention that it was the ignorant youth vote that put this incompetent radical socialist in the White House.

"Solidarity."

LOL!

 

LONG LIVE THE GLORY OF KUROSH 


Nousha Arzu

Meybokhor

by Nousha Arzu on

Like I said, you can list ALL of Denmark's innovations in one or two sentences -- and YOU proved my point ;-) 

You write, "I lived there long before you learned to wipe your snot. I actually lived there when things were still normal and people were not as duped as they are now. Back then, there was still a bit more solidarity, it wan't only me, me, me.

Now who's sounding arrogant?????

You actually lived here when things were still normal? And what decade was that? Are you joking? Actually, it sounds more like you couldn't make it in the US, so you ran away to Denmark.

My experience has taught me that people who knock the US are jealous of her success. Imagine, even today, with all her troubles, California's economy alone is the 6th largest economy in the world!!!

By the way, I don't drive 2 hours in traffic -- boy, is your impression that every city in the America is like Los Angeles -- you must not have a good grasp of America from the time you were living here. I live in New York, where I hardly ever set foot in a car, except when I have to take a taxi.

In case you lived in New Mexico or Galveston, Texas when you were living in the US, in New York City, you can "still" live a charmed life. We're close to everything, even your continent. The best restaurants in the world, the best museums, the best night life BY FAR, and the kind of energy your "Scandanavian" lifestyle couldn't sniff, not even with your all-knowing nose.

As far as politicians go, politicians are the same, all over the world. If you think your "Scandinavian" politicians are angels, after they abscond with more than half of your money, well, then, who's the real fool, or is it tool?

Lastly, I paid for my own law school education and my own college education -- I didn't have to take a hand-out from any government. That's the beauty of the American spirit -- self-reliance, individualism and pursuit of excellence. We don't like Big Brother to take most of our earned income and then give us handouts it feels we're entitled to. 

We had a few Swedes in our NY firm on a temporary basis, who had their law school educations paid for by their governments, and let me tell you, they were the laziest, least motivated lawyers in our office.

Of course, they all found their way back to Sweden, unable to make it in a high-demand place like the big apple. These guys would complain if they had to work over 40 hours! In New York, no big firm lawyer works less than 65 hours a week! But of course, the compensation can be rather comforting. Let's just say FIRST-year associates take home $185,000 a year, not including bonuses (and that's just the first year).

If anything has changed about America, it's that people here now want to work less, like the Europeans, and still live the American Dream.

I'm glad you found a home in Denmark after you found America "difficult." Enterprising countries, where one has to compete with the best and the brightest, can be difficult. Perhaps that says something about you? 

Please stay where you are.

 

LONG LIVE THE GLORY OF KUROSH 


ex programmer craig

AM

by ex programmer craig on


Let's pause for a moment Craig. You seem to throw in the
problem and not wanting any solution or even an attempt of any solution. 

There isn't any form of Government healthcare that I consider to be part of "the solution", AM. And you are arguing for Government healthcare. I don't really understand how you think a compromise can be reached? Between you and I, or between democrats and republicans? If we get back into a discussion about reform, then we can talk. The Government takeover plan is not reform.

Let's pause for a moment and remember last year's stock market crash. 

Lets not, unless you are arguing that teh Government should nationalize the banks as well?

So now when there is clear evidence that healthcare industry is robbing insured and uninsured blindly, we should go back to 70s? 

So you are openly admitting you don't want reform, right? You want to do away with the existing system and replace it with a new system that is under Government administration.

Why do you keep using the word "reform", Anonymouse?

You didn't even say what was good about healthcare in the 70s?  The fact that there was less population?

No, the fact that it was cheaper, doctor's were better and had more reasonable rates, you could get in to see your own doctor whenever you wanted, you could go to the emergency room and wait an hour (I was a very active kid and spent a lot of time in the emergency room getting stitched up and have broken bones treated so I know!) instead of half a day, so on and so forth. 

At least the Democrats have the balls to take on such a huge
legislation.

Are you kidding? The democrats love big government. How could they miss a chance to put the biggest industry in the US under government control?

Sure if Democrats fail, they'll hand over the wheels to Republicans
who in turn will do what?  Nothing! 

If democrats really cared about what was best for Americans, they would have sat down with Republicans and with critics in their own party and done an actual reform of the system that everyone could live with. Don't try to blame Republicans for the fact democrats haven't done that. And sure, if the democrats fail to get anything done and then there's no guarantee that Republicans will take it up when they are in power. All the more reason Democrats should have been working harder to try to come up with something that worked and that everyone could live with. Now, while they are setting the agenda.

 


Anonymouse

Universal healthcare is the goal not selective healthcare.

by Anonymouse on

Let's pause for a moment Craig. You seem to throw in the problem and not wanting any solution or even an attempt of any solution.  You then take my comments and slam them left and right!

Let's pause for a moment and remember last year's stock market crash.  Wasn't it due to less Govt regulation that led to the excesses in wall street and then final collapse?  Wasn't it Govt intervention (a form of socialism) that bailed them out?  Weren't these financial industries left to their own devices and regulations?  Personally I see previous Senator Phill Gramm of Texas as the main culprit of the meltdown in wall street but that is another story for another time.

So now when there is clear evidence that healthcare industry is robbing insured and uninsured blindly, we should go back to 70s?  You didn't even say what was good about healthcare in the 70s?  The fact that there was less population?

Yes the argument about the $700 paper towel is old but a lot has improved but again I used it as an example, like I did earlier with other examples which you slammed left and right!

So yes it's time to do something and it definately will not resolve everything right away.  It is a start.  It gives hope to those who desparetly need healthcare or can hardly afford it.

I don't see the "single payer" as "one owner" I see it as everyone "paying" into the system.  I know there are arguments on both sides and it is long and not interesting really, so I'm not going to get into it, even if you want to.

At least the Democrats have the balls to take on such a huge legislation.  Sure, at this point it'll be Democrats and Obama's failure or success.  I'm putting my money on its success but you are not and we both value our money the same way, I'm sure.

I'm putting my money on Obama because I think there is so much to be done, so much to be saved, so much to be learned, so many to be hired, so many more doctors and nurses to be hired, so much waste to be reformed and so on.  I see the current system as a huge failure and right now the best time to do something about it.

Sure if Democrats fail, they'll hand over the wheels to Republicans who in turn will do what?  Nothing!  ala Joe Piscopo in old SNL skits;  What's happening in the world of sports? Nothing!

Everything is sacred.


ex programmer craig

AM

by ex programmer craig on

Paper towel and toilet seats at those prices are just your imagination, but yes of course if you buy a paper towel
and send it to front lines it costs more than if you buy it at your local Walmart.  This argument is old.

Not even talking about military procurements, AM. You're right the argument is OLD. Because the problem is OLD. And the problem has yet to be fixed.

The point is when Govt dicates the maximum profit
a company can make on a contract is 15%, on certain type of contracts,
they still make money.  Not because they charge the Govt 10X as much.
This is just one example of when Govt gets involved and it's not all doom and gloom.

Well, I disagree with you on both counts. Government spending is notoriously wasteful, even when it's just doing procurement. And there a massive difference between government procurement contracts and government actually taking control of an industry.


I saw the youtube video and it is such a stretch to take one word by
force and say it is total take over of Govt healthcare.

What the hell? Obama said several times that he wants single payer health care, where the single payer is the government! That wasn't a slip! And it's not a "stretch" to take Obama's words at face value! What is a stretch is for you to try to claim Obama didn't mean the things that he said several times during public appearances.

If you want to
say Obama lies...

I think I did say several days ago that I didn't believe Obama when he says NOW that his lon-term game plan doesn't include Government as the sole provider of healthcare coverage in the US.

You want reform but you haven't offered any viable options. 

To get back to teh system we had 30 years ago all we need to do is reform the existing system. That *is* a viable option. However, its not the option we are getting. 

You want
the truth?  You-can't-handle-the-truth!

lol. So says the guy who watched Obama stating his desired end-game in his own words, and then claims it isn't what Obama meant :P

You know I believe one of the most important reasons John
Kerry lost to W was in one of the debates where he was forging ahead
and making headways in showing how W has screwed up and how things
are getting from bad to worse.  Kerry was doing good in polls.

I think the fact Kerry is a douchebag has more to do with it.

So here is the same situation.  All Republicans are doing is
complaining.

Republicans got frozen out 6 months ago, AM. They aren't even being consulted. What good does an alternative plan do when nobody is even asking for your input? If there was a big staff meeting at work to decide on the future direction a major project would be taking and you weren't invited, would you:

a) present your own plan to your fellow employees anyway, and try to convince them it was preferable and that they should stage a little workplace rebellion against all the "movers and shakers" who WERE in the staff metting

or 

b) complain to the powers that be that you should have been included in the staff meeting, and try to get another staff meeting held wheer you could present your ideas

Republicans are doing B. But it isn't working. Democrats are going to do what Democrats want to do.

(snipping a bunch of stuff that's irrelevant)

PS-The US constitution does a pretty good job of explaining what the Federal Government is "for". Not that anyone in either party pays much attention to the US Constitution anymore...


MeyBokhor_Manbarbesuzan

Dear Nousha

by MeyBokhor_Manbarbesuzan on

I never said you should adopt the system in Denmark. I just wanted you to stop your arrogance and refrain from calling other nations decadent.

As for the US becoming a third rate nation (economically I suppose), I should remind you that that is exactly the path the US is following. Morally US is not even in the top ten.

But I do agree that you cannot trust your government. Nobody in the world does -- some leaders maybe but certainly not the majority of people, especially after the parodies you call presidential elections.

One question for you. Do you enjoy this thing you call your hard-earned money? Couple of hours in the traffic to get to your job and back after working for more than 10 hours daily? You don't have to convince (fool) me of lifestyle in the U.S. I lived there long before you learned to wipe your snot. I actually lived there when things were still normal and people were not as duped as they are now. Back then, there was still a bit more solidarity, it wan't only me, me, me.

And FYI, the system here is not a lazy-breeding culture. That is just some thing your Limbaughs, Becks, and the rest of the gang wants you to believe. A typical Danish worker is more productive in the 7 hours-a-day work than an American is in 10 hours. I used to work for an optical fibre producing factory in Denmark with close co-operation with American Telecommunication giant Lucent. They used to send their experts to our site to figure out how this could be. But too late. They almost went under and had to fire close to 15000 employees worldwide. The Danish factory is still there.

As for Danish innovative abilities, I propose you for example google Bang Olufsen (google since I know you don't know the brand and can't afford it even with your hard-earned money.) You can also google the new Joint Strike Fighter. For example:
//www.air-attack.com/news/article/2375/Denmar...

While you are there, chech wind turbines, Danish Design furniture, and Maersk shipping lines too.

Honestly, do you think, any lazy country could have such high living standards as Scandinavian countries?

And there is your mention of lack of individual liberties in Denmark. Could you give me an example of what it is I lack here?

Finally, I have no doubt that the US has the highest number of billioners and millioners and I also know that 1% of Americans own almost 50% of the nations wealth.
Well I am not just willing to help that kind of system, either financially or morally.

I know many who do.


Anonymouse

What is Govt good for then? Let's just get rid of it?

by Anonymouse on

You are talking about the $700 paper towel dispensers and $2000 toilet seats! 

Are you aware of the arguments behind such expenses?  Paper towel and toilet seats at those prices are just your imagination, but yes of course if you buy a paper towel and send it to front lines it costs more than if you buy it at your local Walmart.  This argument is old.

I'm not sure what you point is...?

The point is when Govt dicates the maximum profit a company can make on a contract is 15%, on certain type of contracts, they still make money.  Not because they charge the Govt 10X as much. This is just one example of when Govt gets involved and it's not all doom and gloom.

I saw the youtube video and it is such a stretch to take one word by force and say it is total take over of Govt healthcare.  If you want to say Obama lies, go ahead you don't have to tarof! You know what tarof is right?  That video says nothing ;-) 

I want reform. I don't want Government Healthcare. That's as clear as I know how to be! I want the Healthcare System we had in teh US when I was a kid in the 1970s.

You want reform but you haven't offered any viable options.  You want the truth?  You-can't-handle-the-truth! I want 70s back too, I love to have disco back! That's not your pressure point is it?!

 You know I believe one of the most important reasons John Kerry lost to W was in one of the debates where he was forging ahead and making headways in showing how W has screwed up and how things are getting from bad to worse.  Kerry was doing good in polls.

He was doing good in polls and in that parfticular debate when W responded by saying "A litany of complaints is not a plan".  Now Kerry had a plan but all he was doing was whining and complaining.  At that time W's statement worked.

So here is the same situation.  All Republicans are doing is complaining.  They don't want a reform, if they wanted you don't think they'd made the public aware of their nifty plan?

Govt is definately not a choir boy and they make mistakes and they sell you an expensive paper towel.  But it is also a Govt where they're suppose to serve us.  Their only service can not be only military, can it?  Military spending is just as big as healthcare.

Obama became a president and all of a sudden America is going down the tube?!  Is it that simple?  If Palin takes over America becomes the paradise it was in the 70s?! Come on!  Agree to some points and make points I can agree with.  At least we agree to the problem. 

How else are you going to put the fear of god in insurance companies to loosen their grip and make less profits? Huh?!  And if Govt is that bad, then insurance companies should like the Govt take over.  Right?  Unless Govt does such a good job of taking over, that leaves no criticism!  At which point I'd ask what are you complaining about then?

Everything is sacred.


Nousha Arzu

Meybokhor

by Nousha Arzu on

writes: "In (Denmark) either the private or public sector, if one has worked for more than 3 months and is fired, he will receive three months salary, and up to 6 months depending on employment history. Everyone has 6 weeks of paid vacation regardless of employment history plus almost unlimited number of sick days."

Is this supposed to convince me that socialism works, or is good, when you're FORCED to pay half, and often more than half, of your hard-earned income to the government? Are you joking? NO THANKS! The system you speak of is retarded -- what is Denmark's GDP??? With your style of taxes and work ethic, duplicated in America, we would become a 3rd-rate nation, over night! Again, NO THANKS! I work hard for my money -- I say let me keep most of my money and let me pay for my own expenses!

To trust my government, who spends our tax dollars like a drunken junkie on heroin (bridge to nowhere, stimulus package, etc.), is foolish! Politicians are crooks, EVERYWHERE!

I don't want government handouts, I want to take home more of my own HARD-EARNED money, in terms of lower taxes! To shamelssly bask in your numerous paid vacations, while you pay your government half of your income is ASININE!

Thank God in America, we still celebrate individuality and self sufficiency. We don't look to Big Brother for handouts, which ALWAYS come with a HUGE price tag, not just in terms of higher taxes, but loss of individual liberties. NO THANKS!

Not to mention that Denmark is the size of Wisconsin, good luck implementing Denmark's lazy-breeding system in this country! In America, those of us who work hard SUCCEED, period. I guess people who are not ambitious belong in Denmark where you can be mediocre and lazy and still qualify for a bundle of entitlements.

And by the way, the American ethos of hard work and ingenuity has produced trillions of dollars of innovations. In this country, if you work hard, the American dream is still alive. If I wanted to list all of our innovations, I would need a 100 yards of blogging space to be complete -- I bet you can list all of Denmark's homegrown innovations in the last 100 years in one or two sentences. 

Again, if you want government handouts, which will make you "content," but will never push you to seize your true potential, go to Europe, specifically Sweden (65-70% tax rate) or Denmark (50-60% tax rate).

If you want to work hard, reach for the stars and carve your own individual success with no limits, a country that boasts the most number of billionares and millionares in the world, come to America.

For over 200 years, this has been the American way of life and it has produced unparalled economic success. Now the far left loons in the democratic party want us to believe that the old way was bad and unfair, and the new way, the western European way, is more equitable and fair. As Obama famously said to Joe the Plummer, "I think it's better for everybody when we redistribute the wealth."

Welcome to Socialism 101. Welcome to European-style mediocrity.

LONG LIVE THE GLORY OF KUROSH 


ex programmer craig

VM & Anonymouse

by ex programmer craig on

vildemose, you are welcome to your opinions but you aren't going to sell me on socialism. It's pointless to even try :)

 

Anonymouse,

Have you ever heard of FAR Federal Acquisition Regulation?

Nope!

FAR is the terms and conditions by which the Govt dictates how the
companies can do business with Federal Govt.  At first FAR was made for
military after WWII and doing military business. 

Makes sense. The Government is the only buyer of military equipment in the US, soit seems logical an agency would need to be set uyp to handle that. After all, it would be lunacy to have 3 different companies making products to fill the same "order", when only one of them is going to get the sale...and when the other two companies would have no alternative buyer for what they had just produced.

Then over the years it evolved and now FAR is used as the main terms and conditions by which Govt procures goods and services for all its Departments, be it DoD, DHHS, DOE, DoS and so on.

Oh! Right! I understand what you mean now! You are talking about the $700 paper towel dispensers and $2000 toilet seats! My tax dollars, hard at work! As usual! :p

There are clauses in FAR that allows Govt to break a contract at any
given moment for any reason.  Unlike the commercial contracts where you
have to pay through the nose to break a contract.

I'm not sure what you point is...?

Now do you see Lockheed Martin or Dell or Microsoft or other Govt
contractors loosing money?

How could they lose money when they charge the Government 10x (or more) the going rate? Especially when they can turn around and sell their stuff into the private sector if the Government breaks contracts? 

The problem is not the Govt...

I disagree!

...the problem is the broken and expensive healthcare system as it is today.

And the Government is going to fix that for us, eh?

Someone either sees that problem or not. 

I'm not sure how many times I've already said the healthcare system needs to be reformed, but I'll be happy to say it again now.

But the solution is not Government taking control of an industry that accounts for over 20% of the US economy.

And I can't see that youtube video now. 

 

That's a shame! I'll try again! It's worth watching :)

I think this is it:

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-bY92mcOdk


I'm aware of the "pressure points" in this debate and what those who don't want this reform and make the "most" noise do not want to hear. However, that does not mean those "pressure points" are wrong.  Maybe you just don't want to tell it to those who don't want to
hear it.  

I want reform. I don't want Government Healthcare.

That's as clear as I know how to be! I want the Healthcare System we had in teh US when I was a kid in the 1970s. It was pretty good! And quite affordable!

 


Anonymouse

Whooa!!! the power is back on! i.com is back in business!

by Anonymouse on

Everything is sacred.


Anonymouse

All righty then, let's keep paying more for less

by Anonymouse on

when the Government grants itself the authority to dictate the temrs and conditions by which the Health insurance providers, doctors, hospitals and clinics, drug companies, etc can do business, it is assuming placing the entire system under Federal Government administration. And when you try to say that isn't so, you are parsing words.  

Have you ever heard of FAR Federal Acquisition Regulation? FAR is the terms and conditions by which the Govt dictates how the companies can do business with Federal Govt.  At first FAR was made for military after WWII and doing military business.  Then over the years it evolved and now FAR is used as the main terms and conditions by which Govt procures goods and services for all its Departments, be it DoD, DHHS, DOE, DoS and so on.

There are clauses in FAR that allows Govt to break a contract at any given moment for any reason.  Unlike the commercial contracts where you have to pay through the nose to break a contract.

Now do you see Lockheed Martin or Dell or Microsoft or other Govt contractors loosing money?  There are a lot of examples and we can go back and forth on this.  The problem is not the Govt, the problem is the broken and expensive healthcare system as it is today. Someone either sees that problem or not.  As I said those with means don't see a problem and why would they?  They pay the same premiums as those with 1/10 of their means, and it is cheap.

BTW HMOs are good for younger people who are healthy and want to pay less for premiums.  And I can't see that youtube video now. 

I'm aware of the "pressure points" in this debate and what those who don't want this reform and make the "most" noise do not want to hear. However, that does not mean those "pressure points" are wrong.  Maybe you just don't want to tell it to those who don't want to hear it.  

Everything is sacred.


vildemose

Craig: Why do you think

by vildemose on

Craig: Why do you think privatization of profit by the corporations   whilst 'their  risks' are being socialized (i.e. government bail out) should be called capitalism and not corporate socialism??


vildemose

A system  that places a

by vildemose on

A system  that places a price on human life, and says that profit for the few is more important than life for the many...anyone who views that as moral is sick, mentally, even if well, physically...

"Urgent Care refuses to treat my child, No health insurance"

//www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/11/10/802902/-Urgent-Care-refuses-to-treat-my-child,-No-health-insurance


vildemose

Craig: who do you think

by vildemose on

Craig: who do you think pays more taxes;  Europe or the US?? When you consider that we have to pay for our own health insurance, our own education, our own child care, etc??

Here is an article you should read.

2007 International Health Policy Survey in Seven Countries (pdf-file)

Despite assertions by some that universal insurance systems result in long waits for care or "rationing," only Canada (22%) ranked behind the U.S. (30%) in the low percentage of patients saying they could get same-day appointments with their doctor when they are sick. In contrast, half or more of patients in Germany, the Netherlands, and New Zealand report rapid access to physicians. Notably, in the U.S and Canada, along with Australia, two-thirds or more reported difficulty getting care on nights, weekends, or holidays—the highest rates in the survey.

Easy access to elective surgery has also been cited as a benefit of the U.S. health care system. Yet, similar to the U.S., the majority of patients in Germany, New Zealand, and Australia waited less than a month for elective or non-emergency surgery and waits of 6 months or more were rare in these countries and the Netherlands.
...
As in previous surveys, U.S. adults were most likely to have gone without care because of cost and to have high out-of-pocket costs. In the U.S., nearly two of five (37%) of all adults and 42% of those with chronic conditions had skipped medications, not seen a doctor when sick, or foregone recommended care in the past year because of costs—rates well above all other countries.
...
In addition, one-fifth of U.S. adults report serious problems paying medical bills—more than double the rate in the next highest country. And nearly one third (30%) in the U.S. spent more than $1,000 in the past year out-of-pocket—a level rare in most of the other countries. //www.commonwealthfund.org/~/media/Files/Surveys/2007/2007%20International%20Health%20Policy%20Survey%20in%20Seven%20Countries/10%2029%2007_IHPPressRelease%20pdf.pdf


vildemose

Craig, are the private

by vildemose on

Craig, are the private industries more trustworthy, transparent, accountable than the governmnet?? Why do you think private industries and insurance companies  should dictate and be in charge of our health care policies? Do you view health care as a commodity?

The Nordic countries (Scandinavia: Denmark, Sweden, Finland, and Norway) combine a very free market with a large safety net and social services.

With few regulations compared to other European countries (the culture does more to tame excesses than do laws) they get the benefits of a flexible and dynamic economy, but the welfare state apparatus serves to insulate people from the downsides of a free market economy. Generous unemployment insurance, free schooling to retrain, and access to health care, public transit, and other things that can't be taken away with your job make people safe from the economy in a way they aren't elsewhere.

At the end of the day, it boils down to whether we value social justice more or profits at all cost??


ex programmer craig

AM

by ex programmer craig on

Craig jaan I'm not parsing words.  Public option is just one of the options alongside CIGNA, Kaiser, Blue Cross Blue Shield or others.  How is that parsing words or Govt total "take over" of health system?

Because all of those other "options" will be under Government Administration, despite the fact they will continue to be operated independently. Make no mistake(Obama likes to say that so much, I just had to throw it in!), when the Government grants itself the authority to dictate the temrs and conditions by which the Health insurance providers, doctors, hospitals and clinics, drug companies, etc can do business, it is assuming placing the entire system under Federal Government administration. And when you try to say that isn't so, you are parsing words.

Is the USPS total take over of mailing system?  FedEx, UPS, DHL and
others are carrots?  USPS offers a cheap service of mailing an envelope
for $0.42 beyond that you can choose whatever you want.

The USPS doesn't have the authority to dictate to those privately run companies how they can or can't do business, or what their rate structure has to look like.

Besides that basic difference, this is a horrible example due to the fact that the USPS loses so much money every year.

Do you have a quote from him about this somewhere?  If so, I'd like
to see it.  Otherwise all I've seen and read is his preference
to have a public option. 

I saw the video of him delivering that speech on FOX News! See all the good stuff you are missing by hanging out on DailyKOS? :p

It's on YouTube too! Pretty funny stuff :) 

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-bY92mcOdk

 

If you were an employee you'd know that insurance companies already
cap what they pay for health benefits and of course they pay the minium
to doctors and we pay the rest (another value added tax being shoved
down our throats ;-)

I was an "employee" until I got divorced and decided to take a break from the grind. Best insurance I ever had was Blue Shield PPO through my employer. Worst insurance I ever had was Kasier HMO, through my ex-wife's employer which was Los Angeles County.

But I think you misunderstood my comment on that one! I was talking about capping what insurance companies can charge for their policies, and preventing insurance companies from denying anyone a policy. And I'm assuming that if not a flat rate, some kind of failsafe will be in place to keep policies for high risk individuals "affordable". Which basically means the Federal Government is going to force insurance companies to take somebody who has terminal cancer for $3000 (or whatever) a year, knowing they will lose millions of dollars paying for that person's treatment.

That scenario is where I think there's a place for a "public option". That person with terminal cancer should be able to obtain affordable medical coverage, and if somebody is going to lose money let it be the government since the government doesn't exist to make a profit anyway. But, by forcing private insurance companies to take the hit they will eventually be forced out of business. And then the public option will be all that is left.

OK, now it's time for me to start my day! Back later :)


Anonymouse

P.S. I totaly suck at not using "the" properly! sorry bout that!

by Anonymouse on

Everything is sacred.


Anonymouse

Public option is not the admin of the "entire" health industry

by Anonymouse on

Craig jaan I'm not parsing words.  Public option is just one of the options alongside CIGNA, Kaiser, Blue Cross Blue Shield or others.  How is that parsing words or Govt total "take over" of health system?

Is the USPS total take over of the mailing system?  FedEx, UPS, DHL and others are carrots?  USPS offers a cheap service of mailing an envelope for $0.42 beyond that you can choose whatever you want.

 he thinks the Government should be the sole provider of health care

Do you have a quote from him about this somewhere?  If so, I'd like to see it.  Otherwise all I've seen and read is his preference to have a public option. 

If the public option was instituted as a stand-alone measure in conjunction with reform of the rest of the system, I wouldn't have a problem with it. But when combined with Obama's stated intent to cap what insurance companies can charge for coverage and his stated intent to require insurance companies to accept all applicants (at a flat rate?) regardless of their medical history, age, etc... there's a pretty good chance that over time the public option will be the only option.

Earlier you said you pay for your own insurance, so I assume you're a consultant (probably a systems engineer ;-) and not an employee. If you were an employee you'd know that insurance companies already cap what they pay for health benefits and of course they pay the minimum to doctors and we pay the rest (another value added tax being shoved down our throats ;-)

Furthermore if you're an employee your insurance premiums is already capped regardless of your age or pay.  I pay the same freaking premium as the president of our company who makes 10 times more than I do.  And of course it is most expensive and least coverage and it has gotten worse over the years, each and every year. How is same premiums not socialism but reform of this system is?!

Now I'm not a consultant so I don't know how they get you, but I'm sure they get you somehow.  You probably pay even more than an employee with less coverage.

I remember one Daily Show episode where Jon Stewart was interviewing someone from a 3rd world country about their elections (India or an African country, can't remember now) and democracy and voting and so forth.  During the interview he told his guest; you know once you become good at it, like we are, we just make the people vote for the wrong guy and against their own interests! 

Everything is sacred.


ex programmer craig

ID

by ex programmer craig on

The pharmaceutical and insurance industries are Obama's biggest supporters on this! You didn't notice? :o

And please don't get me started about Europeans and their vaunted standard of living. You will not be happy with the stories I tell you about people I met in Germany and what their lifestyles are like compared to Americans with similar professions.


IRANdokht

MeyBokhor_Manbarbesuzan

by IRANdokht on

Thank you for speaking up!

Some people in US keep talking about high taxes and European style socialism, a reasoning that the insurance company and pharmaceuticals have planted and it keeps getting repeated by the ignorant and the greedy. They don't realize that for the pain of a parent losing a child due to high cost of the medicines and health care does not even compare to the inconvenience of paying higher taxes. 

We have the other well-known and equally ignorant argument about the "security" of our nation!!! As Craig demonstrated with his comment, people's well being in US is not the government's first priority. That is why they'd rather spend our tax dollars for military purposes all over the world, but our health care is just too expensive...

As you can see both arguments give human life less value than politics and capital ($). Another way they are showing how insignificant "the people" have become: more than 70% of the people in US want a public option from the government that would compete and regulate the cost of insurance. But it's still an uphill battle to get any decent form of a public option to pass.

Thank you for your post and a big congratulations for the "noresideh"!!  

IRANdokht


ex programmer craig

vildemose

by ex programmer craig on


There should be a private vs. Public option. Craig, why do you want to take that choice away from people?

I don't have a problem with offering that choice to people. I think that would be a required component of any actual reform of the insurance industry.

I have a problem with it, as it is being done by democrats currently.

And by the way, my ex wife is a LA county probation officer. I tagged along with her a few times when she had to take "problem" people on her case load to public health clinics. Luckily it was only a few times, because those health clinics are not nice places to be. Anyone who thinks the "public option" is going to be similar to what people get with their current private insurance should really go and take a look at what government provided halthcare is *actually* like. It's a bit of an eye-opener.

On the other hand, the military healthcare system (for active duty personnel, not vets)  is quite good. But that comes out of the military budget and is run by the military rather than civilian administartors, so I don't think that's really relevant.


BTW, did you approve of the bailout of those "too big to fail" banks using the public option money (i.e. our taxes)?

I guess I did in principal, simply because we already know what happens in a credit society like ours when financial institutions are allowed to fail without a safety net. I certainly don't approve of the way it was done, though. I'm no economist but the government's penchant for throwing money at problems isn't very effective. 

 


ex programmer craig

Hey...

by ex programmer craig on

I know how we can fix the imbalance of income problem! We can have the government mandate that everyone makes the exact same amount of money regardless of their job! CEO at General Motors? 30k a year. CFO at Bank of America? 30k a year. Own a small business? 30k a year. Work in the warehouse of that small business? 30k a year. Flip burgers at McDonald's? 30k a year. Unemployed? 30k a year (should be 90% unemployment in no time!).

Problem solved and we're all happy members of our little ant colony.

And we can just eliminate taxes entirely by simply having any excess of funds beyond covering payroll and operating expenses for any business go to the Government.

Should work beautifully. I think they even have a name for it!


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by timothyfloyd on

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