Farsinameh

Dear Jamshid, "leave the shade and feel the Sun's Rays.."

Dear Jamshid

You asked: "If the human mind is not capable of even comprehending the higher realm, then how could it even know it exists or not? And know so with certainty?"

In my opinion the human mind is a separate entity* from the human soul; the human mind is nourished by  education and the physical sciences, where as the Soul is nourished and influenced by spiritual education.

Upon our demise, our physical death, it is our non physical essence that lives on to the next "destination" the higher realm...

how do i know with such certainty? I believe that every person has the ability to acquire his/her spiritual senses; for himslef; that  it is through such development where the animal instinct in us is tamed with human qualities of love, tolerance, selflessness etc...

My certainty comes from my own study and experience; from the love and guidance that i have experienced ; leading to an indescribable power within that some call faith; (Iman).  

In the words of Albert Einstein: "A knowledge of the existence of something we cannot penetrate, of the manifestations of the profoundest reason and the most radiant beauty - it is this knowledge and this emotion that constitute the truly religious attitude; in this sense, and in this alone, I am a deeply religious man"

In answer to the rest of your statements regarding what you deem as "contradictions", I offer you perhaps the most rational analogy one could give and that is from nature itself. as i believe it is one way for our limited minds to try as much as possible. comprehend the infinite, the unfathomable mysteries of of the spiritual realm.

With respect, your denial of belief in Spirituality and God, as a man made creation and "comfort zone" is as irrational as the Tree in nature that ,let's say, "thinks", its roots  can grow, flourish, blossom and bear fruit just upon the physical nourishment of the earth and the soil alone, without the warmth and the energy provided by the rays of the SUN.

Surely the "comfort zone" for the tree is not in  permanent shade , where without Sun's influence it would soon die.

Could you possibly consider that your assertion about my "opiated" belief is perhaps like the tree that is oblivious to the existence and the influence of the very Source that gives it its very life? 

Please note that,as difficult as the subject is in this conversation, i have tried to use logic and nature to illustrate my belief and "certainty' of our need for an all encompassing source of life, of which the Sun is a great metaphor.

regards

faryarm 

please see separate post about the differences between the Mind , Soul and the Spirit.

Can we have some substance Q

Accusing me of bias and hatred of Islam is not a response to my comments. For your information, I do not hate anyone. I however am deeply against any religion and against (not hateful) those who promote any religion without having ever verified the truth in what they believe. People who have been so brain washed that cannot separate the wrong from right. Self deceiving people who put a spin on every wrong thing that their favourite prophet did. Please check your conscious and see if you fall in one of those groups.

I have not been selective but I wanted to avoid a long comment (already long enough). And what if I was? Would it not be enough to show one wrong to break your theory of holy innocent prophet (Masoum)?

I am very shocked

that Q is jumping on this!

Thanks for the blog, not sure it will make any difference to serial Islamophobes, though.

When logic fails there is always to cry of "Islamophobe" right out of the PC handbook :-) We are not intimidated by name calling dude! We have watched to many people stoned to death; too many amputations; too many executions; too many chased into exile. We are not going to be bullied or fear the label of "Islamophobe".

By the way no one has yet answered my questions in my previous post. I am sure none of the Islamists will. 

• Pointing me to Baha'i doctrine is not an answer.
• Name calling is not an answer

Divaheh jan, don't be ridiculous

There are people of every religion in every corner of the world. What an insulting and narrow-minded thing to say that you must live in a place where the religion orginated for it to be "yours". What an insult to Iranian Christians and Jews!

Islam is like any other religion, in fact any other blief system in general, even "science" and "secularism" both of which were highly valued in Nazi Germany. Islam has been used for good and for bad, by such people respectively.

If you have a bias and/or personal hatred of Muslims or Islam due to your background and personal life, you can just say so. No need to hide behind halfass, selectively applied arguments and selective readings of history.

Shift change

head apologist resides now. Where on islamic earth do you live abu?

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IRAN FIRST

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For crying outloud

.............For 1400 years...

baba this is neither your book, nor of her (your daughter's) "people".

You're Irooni, right? Your book, then, is Shahname, Avesta, Divane Hafez, Robaayiate Khayaam, Rumi, and may other good books out there that do not advcocate violence against those you do not agree with.

Why not teach you daughter about tolerance and equality, about treating WOMEN the same as men.... Forget about this Tazinameh... and take a hint from your avatar.

Baa ehteraam,

CoP

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IRAN FIRST

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Not book of her people

Unless you come from Arabian Peninsula. Please wake up and teach your daughter a little more than your parents taught you. Here is a little more to tell her when she asks you those questions.

God does not love aggressors. But loves those who slaughter 600 defenceless Jews on the order of his official agent.

Yet there are people who adopt tyrants instead of God, whom they love just as they should love God. Therefore don't believe in my god and don't pay me Zakaat.

God does not love wrongdoers! i.e. I say what is right and wrong.

God does not love someone who is conceited, boastful, nor those who are tight-fisted and order people to be stingy, and hide anything that God has given them out of His bounty. i.e. those who don't blindly accept what I say and don't pay me Zakaat.

God does not love evil talk in public, unless it is by some who has been injured thereby. Means I do not allow criticism.

God does not love those who create havoc. i.e. those who challenge my rule.

He does not love the prideful. i.e. those who challenge what I say and fail to blindly accept it (Kafer).

God does not love every conceited boaster, who is miserly and orders people to be miserly. i.e. those who have their own opinion and don't pay me Zakaat.

I am not a scholar of Islam and nor are you. I however know that there are historical events related to most if not all verses in Quran. God was nothing but a tool in the hands of Mohamed who used it to reach his own goals. You cannot understand the Quran without a good understanding of the prophet's life. Now, go read, open your eyes and think "what if there really isn't a god?" 

Great post Arash

Thanks for the blog, not sure it will make any difference to serial Islamophobes, though.

People who are concerned about Religion/State seperation should feel lucky they live in America:
//blog.au.org/2010/02/11/beastie-boys-virgini...

Koran is not our book

Teaching the history of Iran to our children is the most important thing in regard of teaching. Iranian children should know that Koran is not the book of their people. They should know that it's an Arab Book which is actually a copy of jewish book and the Bible. They should know that Arabs coerced us onto their backward religion and islam isn't our religion.We got your point.

Oh no :)

You and me again?

VPK besiar aziz, lol

If someone get someone's point while other don't that doesn't mean that the first person is super intelligent! The same person could be not getting another person's point........or many other person's point or many other points of the same person...........lol, let put aside this "you are better than me and you are this and that" okay? Thanks.

I've got Arash's point, means, I've got his point of blogging about this matter. I understood what he wanted to say. All the others (but Farayr) jumped into the anti-religion and anti-arabic and anti-Islam's debate and conclusion.

Yes, Koran has some very verses on "love"........

Indeed, many other religions (I don't know all of them) have the same instruction. I am a secular and have no specific religion, but admit that it was necessary for human to begin with a doctrine (religion) for the elevation of his intellect.

But, I am not an expert in religion, nor an expert in Islam (maybe only in love :))

Honestly, I think if you (and others) were interested, you would read Faryar's link more carefully.

what I said here, is not about "the love verses in Koran" but I said I've got Arash's point of blogging about that.

digeh vasam taleh nandazi ha !

Faryam

Faryam, you wrote:

"Humanity is not capable of comprehending the higher realm, that is not physical and can not be defined by tangible means or the physical sciences."

"One thing is certain though, that we will all certainly enter that realm;"

If the human mind is not capable of even comprehending the higher realm, then how could it even know it exists or not? And know so with certainty?

You first claim that humanity is incapable of comprehending some realm, yet you immediately claim with certainty that he will enter that "uncomprehensible" realm some day. Isn't this claim contradictory?

Religious people's logic is often contradictory and self-serving because it does not have to rely on facts nor science. Instead it relies on human mind's imagination, which could have no limits.

The god you believe in was created by the human mind in order to have an answer to its fears and insecurities about its own uncertain fate, and to have a "comfort zone" in which it can live with relative mental comfort.

However, there are those of us who are willing to face those fears and insecurities head on, and sacrifice their "comfort", in order to be a follower of truth and rationality.

And if the god you believe in actually does exist, I guarantee you that in the after life, he will reward the rational minds more handsomely than the opiated religous ones.

Dear Souri

I must be the only one (and Faryar) who got your point from this blog.

I am so glad that you are so brilliant as to "get" everything and so superior too. The rest of us are obviously not up to your level of intelligence. Would you please enlighten us?

How is all the "God does not love .. " indicate love? Giving conditional love is nothing. The real trick is to love unconditionally. That is lacking in the Quoran. Instead of making grand statements please show us how Quoran is full of love. What is Arash's point? 

You railed against the Shah. Yet you worship a god who behaves exactly the same way: rewards his friends and tortures his enemies. How is this idea of God different from Shah?  The Shah was more merciful than the Quoran version of God!

Dear Arash

I love your approach :)

I must be the only one (and Faryar) who got your point from this blog.

Thank you.

Click the link

I am not a Koran scholar or even a religious person. I was just wondering what to tell my daughter, when the time comes, about the Book of her people. You can also search (word-find) the link at the bottom of this blog - using phrases that you want to identify with Koran.

Thanks for your comments.

God is man made

The concept of god and its existence (if any) in all major religions is a man made invention. From science perspective, everything in nature is made of atoms. For example, we are made of hydrogen, oxygen, and carbon (total of 1.0E+27 atoms). The air we are breathing (oxygen and Nitrogen)..... Therefore, if god is part of this universe, it must be nothing but atom - that simple

کلمه‌ی عشق یا مشتقات آن در قرآن نیامده است

بسوز اوراق اگر هم درس مایی
که حرف عشق در دفتر نباشد: حافظ.
اگر قرآن را ملاحظه کنید کلمه‌ی عشق یا مشتقات آن در قرآن نیامده است. ضمنا به این شعر هم توجه کنید بد نیست:
عشقت رسد به فریاد، ور خود به‌سان حافظ
قرآن ز بر بخوانی بر چارده روایت!
یعنی اگر قرآن را به چارده روایت مختلف هم بتوانی بخوانی باز کمکی بهت نمی‌کنه این عشق ست که بهت کمک می‌کنه و به فریادت می‌رسد

Understanding the higher nature...

With respect to every doubter...

Trying to define and understand God is like The Mineral kingdom trying to comprehend the Vegetable kingdom, or The Vegetable kingdom trying to comprehend the Animal, and in turn the Animal trying to comprehend the Human World.

//reference.bahai.org/en/t/ab/SAQ/saq-59.html

Humanity ,is not capable of comprehending the higher realm, that is not physical and can not be defined by tangible means or the physical sciences.

One thing is certain though, that we will all certainly enter that realm; the question is whether we will be prepared.....

May George C. Rest in Peace!

George knew what this BS was all about, Thanks Miko!

Bill Maher on this BS called Religion:

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYW2xXxFVtU

Arash!

Would you please be so kind and explain to us, who/what the God is?. And how do you know that it is a HE and not a SHE? Who had determined the gender of God and why do you think that it is a HE? Based on what? Does it(The God) have a Penis? After answering these ??? we can go on and discuss the other parts of your blog.

George Carlin explains it the best

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o

VPK

Yes, whatever the religion, there are too many salesmen trying to sell the holy scriptures. The question is: where do the profits go? :)

Well said XerXes Jan

Damet Garm

Religion is and should remain a private matter. I don't want to be told what "God Loves" and what "God does not love". I don't need a Mullah or a book to tell me that. I will figure it out by mysef. Preaching is simply a sale job by the religion industry. I am not buying.

VPK

Here is a question for Muslims (and religious people)

According to Koran, God has given the devil the choice to choose between "good and evil". That's why God allowed Satan to remain and work against him. Now, how dare is God to punish those who didn't choose him:
According to Koran, a sinner will be burned and re-skinned and burned again and re-skinned and burned again until the eternity. You can tell this is an Savage and tribe mentality. Sadism is seen in every punishment in Koran.
Here is what I ask, if God is forgiving and merciful, why should he be forgiving to those who follow him? why should be he merciful to those who obey him? Shouldn't he be merciful and forgiving to those who disagree with his orders? What's there to forgive to those who are obedient?
What kind of forgiving is that? to be nice to those who obey and torture the hell for eternity for those who disobedient?

God loves those who cleanse themselves.

lol, this came because Muhammad had found out the idea of cleaning oneself from Salmon Farsi. He realized how dirty tribal Arabs were and then with a conference call with Allah, the message came that: Yes, you may tell your people to clean themselves and quote me on that ;)
I can also see Muhammad begging Salmon: Please, dude, don't tell these people that I got this one from Persians.

.....

Your blog says that:

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God loves those who deal fairly. Know that God is forgiving, merciful.

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Unfortunately, IRI is totally opposite of that.....if you don't wear hijab, you can get 76 lashes......if you throw rocks during protest, you qualify for death penalty.......there is no Islamic clemency at all, not to mention the fact that Jannati celebrated his son's execution... 

toro beh khoda vel konin baba

This is garbage. Let me ask you this, who is there to define what each one of those "words" mean?
This is nothing but non sense. Follow your religion quietly and stop broadcasting your faith, it's arrogant.

Thank you.

for sharing it. I hope those of us who possess this religion will one day practice it.

The love in Quran

Your own quotes of Quoran disprove your point. Read your own quote: is this your idea of love??

God does not love wrongdoers!

Who is a "wrongdoer". It it the one who does not wear hijab; the woman who dares say she is equal to man; the polytheist; the unbeliever; the homosexual or just anyone who does not submit. 

The only love there is towards those who "submit". It is a classic carrot and stick method. You scare the heck out of people with fire and hell. Then show the other side of love if they submit. This is how paranoid tyrants act not a "loving all powerful God". Read your quotes once again there are 6 references to what "God loves" and 8 to "God does not love". This is the mark of a cult. That is how they keep dissent to a minimum. That is how they supress freedom. Do you seriously call this love!!

Arash Quran is a book of Schizophrenia

You should have also included the verses that call upon all Muslims to kill and destroy the non-believers even the ones who do not fight against you, treats women as slaves to men, promote slavery and promotes hate towards others and many more......

Thank you Arash

Thank you Arash

It is important for people to understand the history and teachings of Islam within the context the of time it was given and to the people who received it.

i recommend the following reading about the Prophet Muhammad, which was given as an answer to a Christian, who in the west had heard nothing but false and negatives about Prophet Muhammad.

//reference.bahai.org/en/t/ab/SAQ/saq-7.html

//reference.bahai.org/en/t/ab/SAQ/

We must distinguish between the contributions of Islam to human civilization and its subsequent corruption and abasement by ignorance, prejudice and superstition.