areyo barzan

Dear Rahmanian

by areyo barzan on Thu Mar 22, 2012 04:11 AM PDT

As I read your response it seems to me that you are falling into the other category.

People who associate errors and mistakes with lack of wisdom, incompetence and stupidity.

Pointing a person or even a nation toward their errors is NOT an accusation. In fact anyone who cares about me as a person or about us as a nation regards it as his/her duty to point and highlight our errors and hence encourage us to fix it by changing our behaviour or state of mind.

Errors are facts of life and sometimes the only way to accumulate experience and better ourselves.

 

You have stated:

“One extremely significant fact of history many seem to ignore is that "average" Iranians turned against the regime when they realized”

 

I am afraid “Pas az marge Soharaab  va Nooshdaroo” is not very useful. The people and especially the likes of Banisadr, Bazargaan, Ghotb zadeh, Yazdi and many others should have done their homework properly before embarking in such suicide journey and should have never followed Khomeini to the hell that is IRI.

Furthermore these people might have turned against Khomeini which was the easiest part however until this moment they have never acknowledges their mistake on following him blindly in the first place and my problem here is not with their error but with their refusal to acknowledge it.

Just like every other nation on this planet we have had our fair share of making fatal and stupid errors. But as long as we can have a fair none bias look into our past and first acknowledge  those errors and then correct those mistake and more importantly y put measures in place to prevent their recurrence, we have noting to be ashamed of.

However please note that I have emphasized on the world acknowledge first as without acknowledgement we will not know what we are correcting or preventing

 

With regards to Khatami Mosavi and Karoobi and the movements of 2009 and 2004 as I have stated several times in the past in my postings on this and other sides I still believe that we have made a fatal error by following them and  putting our hopes on them.

As I have said before these people were noting but a safety valve for the IRI to control the opposition movement and keep it within the mainframe of the regime. Such tactic had two advantages for the IRI.

Firstly as these so called “leaders” of such movement were a part of the system and their obedient from leadership was a required they could never go against the core of IRI and hence they could control such movements by not letting them to turn into a regime change force. As we saw with Khatami who in the end took the side of Khamene-ee and the IRI by drawing the line and selling out his student supporters.

Secondly such movements would help IRI to identify and eliminate their potential rivals and key opposition figures who have fundamental issues with the regime and might pose a danger to it.

 

However I have never denied or even attempted to belittle the bravery of simple people and those students who took to the streets to take on the IRI and claim back what was rightfully theirs.

But we should keep in mind such movements are only one part of the puzzle and although an important piece they can never change the course of history on their own. That is where the role of a honest, competent and visionary leadership comes to effect, and that is and always has been the factor missing from all these movements.

Furthermore in all these movements as a nation we and our so called intellectuals have failed spectacularly to recognize this problem

Dear Khosrodad

by areyo barzan on Thu Mar 22, 2012 03:05 AM PDT

 

I am afraid I do not do conspiracy theories. If you have a proof of Khomeini preparing a secret army of torturers and killers prior to coming back to Iran in 1979 then I would very much like to see it.

Furthermore if I am proven to be wrong I would like to be the one who breaks this vicious cycle of denial and stupid pride by not only admitting to my error but also changing my way, to prevent it from happening again.

I emphasize here again that Khomeini advocated an ISLAMIC REPUBLIC and an ISLAMIC REPUBLIC is what you have got. So in that sense he did not lie.

Now! he might have definitely lied on other topics and I did not claim that he was a truthful man all the way. As I told you before I do not even like the man.

For your information while in 1979 everyone was looking for his picture in the moon and following his every move in BBC world Service I was one of the lonely voices arguing against him and warning everyone about the danger that he and his ideology poses to our country and future.

With regards to his promises of free water and electricity and free public transport I put is in to his stupidity and lack of any clue about how a country is run.

But please note that he was not alone when he was making those promises. I recommend to you to read the book called “Istadeh bar Arman” by “Ali Gharib” if you want I will even send you a pdf. copy of the book.

This book is the memoirs of Mr Banisadr and many others who came to Iran with Khomeini in that controversial air France flight.

According to the book when Mr Banisadr first went to see Khomeini in Paris, we went over 19 imperative points with him to make sure that he will give the right answers to the Western media and press journalists and hence will not cock-up the image of their revolution.

According to this same book Khomeini never said anything without the approval of Banisadr. Even when his office was releasing an statement he insisted for it to be ran by Mr Banisadr prior to release.

Now! my question to you is that why did these people not stop Khomeini from making such stupid promises. Could it be because that they thought such publicity stunts will persuade more naive idiots to take into the streets of Iran and follow Khomeini and eventually will get them closer to their aim which was destruction the government in Iran and ceasing power.

I am sorry mate but there come a point in any person or even nation’s life when they need to be brave enough to put up their hand and accept their errors and more importantly take responsibility for it.

Khomeini might have deceived you by making stupid promises which he could have never kept. But the biggest deceit came from yourself when you accepted such idiotic promises without thinking for a moment about the feasibility of such deliberations and simply by allowing your greed to get the better of you.

And this is the point I am making here. As I said before:

 

“Are we willing to put up our hand and accept our errors and more importantly take responsibility for it without trying to make any B.S excuses???”

 

But unfortunately from your response it seems that the answer to my question is still uncertain and unless we get the right answer to that question we are going to go trough the same vicious circle over and over and over again

Without getting into nitty gritty part of this discussion…

by Bavafa on Wed Mar 21, 2012 08:13 PM PDT

I whole heartedly agree and believe in personal responsibility and our own (Iranian people) responsibility in allowing the tyrants, dictators or otherwise who have ruled over our mother-land.   And I do believe as long as we try to shift the blame and not take a lead in creating out own faith, we will be a the mercy of what gets decided for us. 

  

An active participation coupled with much sacrifice on the part of all is an absolute requirement if we are ever going to be the master of our own domain.

  

Good blog, great topic and right on points made here by Areyo Barzan which I have read before on his/her part

 

 

'Hambastegi' is the main key to victory 

Mehrdad

 

P.S. Do I believe Khomainie lied and deceived the Iranian people?  You sure bet I do!Do I believe Iranians have a great deal of responsibility to allow those lie go unchecked?  You sure bet I do.

 

What People?

by G. Rahmanian on Wed Mar 21, 2012 07:12 PM PDT

What people are the target of your accusations? You have blamed "people" without ever being clear. Are they the same people whom you expect to bring about regime change in Iran? Your argument is self-defeating, at best.

Blaming all Iranians is tantamount to missing the point. It is reducing a whole host of issues to a simplistic interpretation of the historical facts.

One extremely significant fact of history many seem to ignore is that "average" Iranians turned against the regime when they realized Khomeini had lied to them about freedom and democracy. What was lacking then was a coherent leadership because the so-called, "anti-imperialist" organizations failed to side with people.

Again, in June of 2009 when tens if millions of Iranians took the streets of major cities in protesting the rule of the authoritarian regime and during the recent general boycott of the parliamentary "Elections" while people clearly showed their detestation towards the regime, there was no trace of a coherent leadership to help them to continue their struggle and lead them to the next stage.

The increasing popularity of some organizations right after '79 was in fact a big NO to Khomeini. And the massacres that followed not only proved the Mullahs were not popular at all, it was also meant to spread fear in the hearts and minds of Iranians in order to establish their authoritarian rule.

What you say about people, in general, is not specific to Iranians. Show me a country where people left alone will not tear each other up. I'm not talking about a so-called, "Third-World" country. I mean a very advanced democracy.            

In a democracy it is the rule of law that protects each individual's rights and not the kindness of the hearts of its citizenry.

one thing we can not accuse him of is being a liar and deceitful

by Manuchehr Khosrodad on Wed Mar 21, 2012 04:24 PM PDT

A delusional post, if truth mattered to you.

In his writings yes khomeini was clear. But with an eye towards all of the truth he was nothing but a liar and deceitful.  He had an independent secret service created specializing in torture and murdering tens of thousands without anyones knowledge and a public relations approach to deny these activities. Areyo maybe you got free electricity/public transport and for you khomeini just left the political scene and went to qom, but for the rest of Iranians he thwarted the progress, freedom the iranian nation had come to experience (freedom/non-political) with the late shah. Khomeini did cheat Iranians through lies/deceit.

Dear Areo Barzan

by omeedvar on Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:25 AM PDT

I agree with some of your thoughts. Most Iranians are stubborn (Ghodd!). They never want to admit their mistakes, because they consider it a weakness or failure.

With regards to your suggestion that Khomeini not being a liar and deceitful, I think you are wrong. Unfortunately, Less than one percent of Iranians knew him, or had read his books before the revolution. He lived his childhood in India. His family moved to  Khomein, a village in suburb of Isfahan, and changed their name to Khomeini. He got his education in Ghom, as a Talabeh.

Before he was exiled to Iraq for fifteen years, he was not an Ayatollah, or marjaeh taghlid to have followers, like Khoyi, Shariatmadari, and Golpayegani. He rebelled against the land reform,  and women's right, before he was sent to Iraq.

When he was broadcasted to Iranians from France, he never talked about his Islamic plan for Iran. When asked by reporters about hejob, he said women can choose whether they want to wear it or not, but it will be arjah to wear it. He said, after he returns to Iran, he will go to Ghom, and away from politic.

He cleverly let his assistants ( Yazdi, Ghotbzadeh, Banisadr, etc), handle many questions of the reporters. He prmised free water and electricity, and encouraged people to stop working and paying taxes. He asked the oil industry workers to go on strike, and encouraged all people to demonstrate on the streets.

I am sure Mr. Kadivar has access to his interviews and speeches before, during, and after the revolution.

 

Thank you Areyo Barzan jan

by anglophile on Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:25 AM PDT

  I fully agree with you as I made a reference to your blog, and the accuracy of your argument, in my comment in Fred's blog. I particularly agree with your statement about Khomeini's not hiding his true intentions. Although in his interpretation of Islam, a muslim, or as in his case a muslim leader, is entitled to lie if by doing so the faith is to be saved from infidel, he hardly used this priviledge. If I cmpare him with Mossadegh, I can prove that Khomeini was far more honest about his intentions and his ambitions than Dr M. But going back to the main topic of your blog, I couldn't agree more with you that its the people of Iran who have been, and continue to be, the architects of their own destruction. When and if they are going to begin a process of change, remains to be the question.   Thank you for the good blog and let us hope for a better year for Iran in 1391. 

Dear Anglophile

by areyo barzan on Wed Mar 21, 2012 07:58 AM PDT

Norroz-e shomaa pirooz and thank you for your comment and your question.

Firstly with regards to writing a new blog, It was first my intention to write my answer as a response to our friend Fred’s blog.

But when I realized that my answer was becoming lengthier than the original blog itself then I decided that it was time to write a new blog. 

With regards to Khomeini’s intentions I simply do not know. May be in his own stupid arrogant way he also thought that he could create a perfect Islamic state but experience showed him otherwise.

However! Although I hate Khomeini to the core, I still need to be fare and honest with myself and as I said before in my previous blogs, I should also reemphasize here that you an I can accuse Khomeini of many things but one thing we can not accuse him of is being a liar and deceitful.

From the very beginning Khomeini advocated an Islamic Republic and Velayat-e Fageeh. Even in his books (Sahife-ye Noor, Bahaar Al-Anvaar) he have put squarely what he meant by these terms.

Now! If you an I or many other so called intellectuals like Mr Banisadr, Dr Yazdi, Mr Bazargan, Mr Rajavi and Mr Ghotb Zadeh did not listen to him because we had our own ideas and thought we could use him to get there, then it was not his problem.

And that will again brings us back to my original point which was:

“Our error as a nation and our ability or rather lack of it to face our responcibilities and accept our errors when due"

With Noeroozi greetings and two questions:

by anglophile on Wed Mar 21, 2012 05:49 AM PDT

         

1. Why did you see it essential to write a new blog instead of replying to Fred on his own turf? 
2. Are you prepared to give Khomeini any credit for "good intenstions". After all he led the nation to hell didn't he?