Artificial Intelligence

Hi Fred

Israel attacks again.

First of all no country or government would allow people throw stones, burn tires and try to overthrow the government, no country even America. So it's not Arab/None-Arab thing, it's the matter of law and order. When a demonstrator throws a Coctail-Molotove toward the police that's use of lethal weapon. When a demonstrator throws large rocks at the police, that's the use of lethal weapon.

Do not compare Israel with Syria. Assad did not attack and occupy a country he wasn't part of as Israelis did. He is a Syrian citizen. The people put his father in power & supported his leadership. They have a long way to go before they become democratic but if people really decide to overthrow a regime they have to fight it and get killed fighting as Americans did during their revolution and independence from the British.

We can't use Gandhi's peaceful system with likes of IRI, Syria or Israeli zionists, with them you gotta fight and fight hard till they're gone and peace comes back.

Why did you reveal yourself so easily?

I could not have guessed. Had I known it was your blog, I would have stayed away. What is the advantage of having multiple user ids, if you cannot hide behind them?

I’ll keep mine. If for no other reasons, at least it will help you know whom you are cross with.

P.S. If you e-mail me all your user ids, I’ll make sure I will never comment about what you write under any of them. 

Thanks Bavafa

I understand your points now.

I also agree with you that Gaza is different from Syria. But we may not agree on the end result on this issue at the end. The Syrians are unarmed and brave fighting their government and getting killed for peaceful protesting. The Gazan's are ruled by Hamas which is armed by IRI and uses its weapons to terrorize not only Israeli civilians but Gazan's themselves.

Dear MM

Thank you for your comment. I already stated below that I did not literraly want distruction and mayhem on anyone.

Sorry that I missed Bahrain. Thanks for the reminder. 

Examiner- Very Smart one

Try to make this about me? Attack the writer? I was making an observation.  And what is it about selective memory? Just because I missed a country or two in turmoil?

Examiner, in over 2 years, you have about 20 entries/contributions on IC. Maybe you are one of the people I'm settling scores with under a different name? What was it exactly about my blog that made you write so much after 2 years? 

Are you the one who said "its a human right issue" every time confronted with Gaza?:))))

Rosie/Roxy knew exactly who you were on the humanbeing blog. :)))))

Get a new id. 

Is AI right?

Notwithstanding a few exceptional cases, there has been a deafening silence about the Arab Spring on this site when it comes to articles and blogs – as opposed to featured news that have been far too many. I tried to break this silence once, I know. Contrary to AI however, I do see this dearth of pertinent blogs as an indication of ambivalence, not hypocrisy.

When I read this blog, my first reaction was to check AI’s own recent contributions, to see how many blogs he has written on this subject. His last contribution is three months old - about the time the uprisings in the Arab world started. And, that blog was about Mousavi comparing IR with Nazi Germany and Soviet Union. So, my question is why AI hasn’t practiced what he preaches here?

Why is it that AI, as an Iranian Jew, hasn’t stepped forward to show that he cares about Arabs’ struggle for democracy more than Iranian non-Jews do? Why is it that AI, as a supporter of Israel, hasn’t come out supporting those in the Arab street who are risking their lives facing their dictators’ bullets? I don’t accuse AI of being a hypocrite. I think he is ambivalent.

This blog appears to be more about settling accounts with old nemeses, than expressing solidarity with the victims of brutal regimes in the ME. AI’s selective memory of countries in turmoil does not serve him well, either. And that, I don’t envy.

AI -

Reading the comments, it is obvious that many (including me) agree with you that while Jewish-on-Muslim violence is echoed multiple times by IRI supporters, selective Muslim-on-Muslim or Muslim-on-non-Muslim violence are not.

However, I also note that

* For some reason, the violence on, e.g.,  the Bahrainis (many with Arab-Iranian roots) were left out by you.  

* And finally, to wish death, destruction and mayhem to any "people" is not cool, even if they are Palestinians.

AI: I hesitate to respond....

fearing the "million years" of discussion without yielding much agreement.

But I like to make a couple of points now, knowing your back ground

- I have far more respect for those of Jewish faith who equally condemn Israeli atrocities against their occupied neighbors as strongly as they defend their right to exist. As such, I do believe in their full right to exist in their legally recognized country, Israel, as strongly as I condemn their brutal treatment of Palestinians in the occupied Palestine.

- I agree with Afsaneh's point which I also tried to make, the situation in Gaza was of a completely different scale then in Syria or Bahrain or even Libya. Nevertheless, we MUST condemn all acts of violence against innocent civilian AND peaceful demonstrators regardless of where and by whom.

Lastly to my point about creating a rift which appreantly was not clear enough…

My point was that any time we paint all/every body with the same brush, we will risk creating a division among us. This would be as if I say, Jews or Israelis are against any Palestinian state or right to exist in Palestine where as we know there are a very large group of Jews inside and outside of Israel who do not subscribe to such thinking.  I do believe I would get a negative reaction if I write a blog insinuating such claim.

peace for all

Mehrdad

Jihadist Palestinians are the Chosen people

  The so called ' humanitarian' Gaza Trendists are in the Business of the Palestinian/Isreali conflict.They are victim's of the Suicide Belt industry and the Elite Islamic Jihadist propaganda industry.When you get by their moral relativism in the name of covering up the atrocities of Islamic Jihad you realize why Gaza is occupied.Because it is full of Islamic Jihadists..Duh..But these 'Jihadist Palestinians are their chosen people,not Iranians or any other 'chosen poor victims' as is the point of this blog.There's no denying they look the other way when it comes to Palestinians shooting rocket,breaking cease fire treatys,brainwashing Palestinian kids into War.

When it comes to the Palestinians asking for war,from them it's No comment..
When the Palestinians get their war,it's all mouth..
Take them or leave them for what they are.

(written in special Freemason Exposed Style)

Thank you Afsaneh

For your thoughtful words re Cyrus!

We can argue Israel/Palestine for a million years and we will not come to agreement  based on what you call my cherry-picking. It very well maybe true what you say but I see it differently.

I wish all of us peace, liberty and freedom.

Peace

Being "anti-anyone" is a poor choice - Cyrus built an Empire based on that thought  (and helped build the 2nd Temple in Jerusalem.) 

I agree with you that human suffering shouldn't be cherry-picked. But let's not cherry-pick our chain of argument either. There is a basic difference between Syria and Gaza. Gaza is "occupied" - Syria is a "country." Although I wasn't here during all the posts, and accept your account - I hope the explanation serves to help with your assessment.

I wish you and your community peace. 

Afsaneh

Dear Afsaneh

1. Assumption of Anti Semitisim

Please! I am not assuming that Iranians are anti semitic. You are assuming that this was my assumption. You are wrong. My blog was not really about Israel either. It was about hypocrisy of people crying Palestine all the time. People who stay silent with similar or worse crimes when it happens literally next door to Palestine. Do you understand this? Do you see the hypocrisy of being "selective" in human rights issues? I am talking about their political agenda. The political agenda is not about Human Rights or Palestinians. If it was, then what is happening today should be just as revaulting  to them 

Now with respect to IRI Supporters: 

IRI supporters and certain elements of the radical left however, yes. They are clearly anti semetic. You, and anyone else, should be free to criticize Israel and all its policies all you want. I personally, as an Iranian  jew, always criticize Israel's policies. Not just on the Palestinian issue but also internally on how there is no separation of church and state in Israel.This is perfectly legitimate.I also hate to throw the "anti-semitic card" at anyone just because they criticize Israel. I know of people who do that and it only diminishes the fight against true anti-semites. 

However, when you are only selective about criticizing Israel, I see an element of anti-semitism.If you don't see it, that is fine. This blog was not about that.

2. With respect to Gaza:

If you would like to know what happened, please go to the links provided by David ET. That should give you a good taste. There were at least 50 blogs like that. Also, please see the Allaho Akbar blog. Where is Iranian Reader today with all the killings that is going on? Where was her Allhao Akbar when Iranian were murdered by IRI thugs in 2009? By the way, I know who she is. She is clearly an anti-semite if you read her other writings under her real name you would understand. 

I hope I answered your questions. 

Wrong Assumption = Wrong Result

I hope this well help you:

1. Assumption of "Anti-Semitism": 

You're assuming that Iranians are "anti-smeitic" and then teasingingly trying to prove your point - that the Bloggers here don't stand up for Arabs, if Arabs are killing them. I think that's the real gyst of your post. Since the premise is completely imaginary - then you're finding yourself stuck.

"They hate Jews, therefore they should love the Arabs." or perhaps you're thinking: "They only hate Jews, and couldn't really give a toss about what attrocities Arabs commit."

However, to this day, Iran stands as the oldest home of the Jewish diaspora. Out of respect for the victims of the Holocaust, I wouldn't so carelessly imply, or throw around the "anti-smeitic" label. Not with the children of Cyrus.  (I've put "anti-semitic" in quotation marks, as technically, both Arabs and Jews are semites.)

2."Gaza": 

I don't know what happened on this site during Gaza - but just as any Jewish person being slaughtered by the Germans would tell you - when another race or religion is victimizing a group, the "victimhood" issue goes up exponentially. Perhaps that explains the larger volumes of outcry?

A couple of personal insights to perhaps help with your wonderings. 

Afsaneh

You Are missing the point Bavafa

I do believe that many of you care regardless of who is getting killed. However, the fact that non Palestinians are dying today and proportionally there is not even 5% of the response that Gaza got on this site speaks volumes.

You can go view the Iranian.com pages during Gaza and it was flooded with Gaza only comments & Blogs. The same loud mouths were proportionally also silent when  Iranians were getting killed by the IRI.

You can not compare what happened on this site during Gaza to what is happening now. Over 80 people were killed in cold blood yesterday.

I still say where is the outrage? 

I don't get your following comment 

"you accomplish nothing but creating rift and separation among us when we need unity the most."

I don't see how my observation is creating a rift? 

There is very little support in Arab/Muslim world for...

Muslim victims of violent repression and mass killings, when the perpetrators are Muslim.

Saddam killed tens, if not hundreds of thousands of his own people, Sudanese have killed hundreds of thousands of Darfuris, Moroccans have killed thousands in Western Sahara. In Pakistan various Muslim sects - especially the Sunnis- kill other Muslims in large numbers and of course we see the killings of Muslim civilians in various Arab countries today. Aside from the recent uprisings, I don't recall seeing much in the way of condemnation in the Muslim world at the time.

It's only the killing of Palestinians by the Israelis that seems to cause outrage in the Muslim world. Likewise when Muslims are killed by US/Allied forces in Iraq and Afghanistan it seems to cause a lot more anger than when Muslims are killed at the hands of fellow Muslims, who have probably carried out most of the killings in those conflicts.

It gives the impression that many Muslims only feel concern for their fellow Muslims when their lives are taken by non-Muslims, and not so much when, as is usually the case, by Muslims themselves.

Not that I in any way approve Israel's terrible mistreatment of Palestinians, which is not only shameful in dehumanising the Palestinians and violating their rights, but has also served as one of the most powerful incentives for various Muslim extremist groups to recruit people to their causes.

But I will say one thing for Israel, unlike nearly all Muslim nations, at least Israel treats its own people decently. 

The connection between German occupied French hooker &

 & these Arabo ommatie chest beaters for Palestine goes as follow;. You see, nowadays you wont see any of these closet hezbos pouring their guts out to support the ommatie regime back home due to social trend & not because they dont want to but because they are born fence sitting lizzards practising "Taghieh" & in fear of retributions. Now you might ask yourself as how to sort em out hezbo trash from the average folks and the answer is easy,; In WW2 I bet the only way to expose a French hooker having willingly slept with German officers was to check her purse for Deutsche Marks & Just as well replace German Marks with "Palestine issue" for the native ommatie & watch em lizzards come to surface for expose :). that simple my man, that simple!. 

Cheers!!!

Path of Kiaan Resurrection of True Iran Hoisting Drafshe Kaviaan //iranianidentity.blogspot.com //www.youtube.com/user/samsamsia

AI: Yes, really!!!!

I am not going to go and pull records of blogs/news and comments just to prove it to you that some of us do care about human rights regardless where it gets violated or confirm what you have already said about few others.

Are there any members here that are way too lopsided in their condemnation of atrocities around the world, surely yes. You sampled a good set of those individuals. But lets not forget that there are few members on the other side who remain silent or might even cheer for such loss of life.

The point is that when you right such blog and paint a large group of folks with the same brush , you accomplish nothing but creating rift and separation among us when we need unity the most.

Lets not forget that most if not all of those users that you have listed are either gone or perhaps from shame have gone to new userID

"Are you saying a different standard should apply when people are killed by democracies vs. non democracies"

Lastly, no I am not saying there should be a difference in standards but expectation are different when you deal with democracies vs. dictatorship and tyrant regime.

Mehrdad

Ayank

Your attempts at intentionally changing the subject/missing the point of the blog is actually the sickening point I am talking about. What is sickening is peoples silence about murders of civilians by Arab regims in the past 3 months. Stop the lies Aynak and face the truth. No one here is buying your lies except for IRI apologists and radical leftists. 

I do not wish any war on any people. You are intentionally missing the point of the blog. Read hamsadeh again. 

U are right on Aynak

It is so refreshing that i have found a person who thinks outside the box, which is more than i can say about most of these bloggers on this site. the problem with the people these days is that they do not understand the human toll and follow the hyped up media in their almost hypnotic state.

This blog is really sickening....

Now we have to stoop so low, to argue with this lack of intelligence over the obvious.

The topic of this blog should show  the sick state of mind  of the blogger.

In 3 weeks of Gaza war, Israeli committed 1400+ murder including 300+ children.   Now putting the death tolls of Egypt, Bahrain, Syria, Yemen combined, the Israelis have manged to kill more in 3 weeks than these combined.

But what is more sickening is that the blogger is wishing/preying/asking for another invasion of Lebanon of Gaza just to prove to "the Allah-Akbar" gooyan a point?    This obvious disregard for human lives is in and of itself  an evidence of the nature of these Israeli Apologists.  

May we all have good dreams.

Really Bavafa?

Can you please enlighten us and give us the link  to "all the blogs and comments" you claim to have been made about the subject I am referring to?

The Gaza war created more than 50 anti Israeli blogs and thousands of comments here on IC.  Please give us the links to "all the blogs and comments" about the Arab uprising and murder of innocent civilians by their governments?

Where are characters like Mola, Irandokht, Batmangelich, Jaleho, Q, Abarmard.......condemning Syria's killing of 88 unarmed civilians today? 

You also state:

"We also ought not to forget that the massacre and war crimes that took
place in Gaza is on a totally different scale then perhaps in Bahrain or
Syria and that one would expect more from Israel since it is a
democracy and NOT like these barbaric dictatorial sheikh."

Yes its a totally different scale since Israel was fighting an armed group that was operating out of civilian areas. These barbaric Shieks as you described them are killing their own unarmed people/civilians. 

Are you saying a different standard should apply when people are killed by democracies vs. non democracies? Is that why the IRI supporters and apologist keep their mouth shut on this issue?

Dear David ET

Thanks for reminding me of the batmangelich guy. Its a much better example of what I am trying to expose here. Notice how you did not see a single post from him regarding IRI killings. I am going over some of the comments on your 2 blogs and they are a riot.

Aynak

Read hamsadeh ghadimi's response again. You either missed it or are intentionally changing the subject of the blog.

You got to be kidding me…

This is an interesting wish to say the least… I guess, at best it would mean to wish for invading another nation and killing of its citizen just to prove there are some hypocrite on IC.

With all the blog, news item and comments that has been left regarding these murderous regimes, condemning their brutal treatment of their own citizen and in some cases the West for their lack of outrage and measured response when it comes to "friendly" Arab regimes such as Saudi Arabia and Bahrain, I can't imagine how they must have gone amiss by you.

We also ought not to forget that the massacre and war crimes that took place in Gaza is on a totally different scale then perhaps in Bahrain or Syria and that one would expect more from Israel since it is a democracy and NOT like these barbaric dictatorial sheikh.

Mehrdad

and where are the cheerleaders of `shame on you´´ article

by //iranian.com/main/member/cameron-batmang...

Since then he has deleted the article , but his response and comments of his supporters stays !

Response to them:  Shame on you (2)

as always time tells ! My trial at IRANIAN.com

Lets go over your list

Which doesn't include Palestine.

Last I checked running a War or Proxy War against Isreal,so called Occupation and performing acts of Violence like Killing little Babies just because they are Jewish - WAS A VIOLATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS. I condemn the LIVING CRAP OUT OF IT...

By the way,AllOOOOOOOOo Akbar AI..

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZa3EYWCY3w

Let's make it real intelligence:

As human beings, we must condemn all acts of violations of human rights:

1-Be it by Israel

2-Saudi Arabia

3-Islamic Regime

4-Government of Bahrain

5-Government of Yemen

6-Syria

7-Egypt

8-U.S

........ (Russia, China, France ......)

Hopefully you get the picture.   Then it becomes a question, which one is under our control/we have a say on/we can do something about and which ones we can't.

Let's go over the list again:

1:Israel:   Our school district is short of funds, and I can't understand why we have to give them any more of our tax dollars to do their killings?

2:Saudi Arabia:  Who in their right mind can approve of a regime that is even WORSE than Islamic Regime.   If it helps though,I condemn them kiling their own citizens.  (P.S you have to ask the same question about why E.U or U.S is quiet about those attrocities/human rights violations)?

3:Islamic Regime:  Fortunately on this one, no one disagrees on the barbaric nature of the regime ruling over Iran.  (OK, what posting for instance of Fred is new to anyone here?)

4: Bahrain:  Here's where people with many double standards pup up.  And the name is noticbly absent from AI's original post.   This is hypocrisy at its worst.  (Something supposedly this post was trying to argue against, but you folks are too blind to see your own hypocrisy).   Here, not surprisingly, Islamic Regime is the biggest vocal opponent of Bahraini governments brutal suppression of her own people.   Like the case of Palestinans, the Islamic Regime does not give a fck about Bahraians human rights, but is using that to promote itself and its ideology:   So even if someone condmns something, we have to see from WHAT view it is?   But as important, focus on people's basic human rights, NOT who may side with them.

5:Yemen:  That's yet another regime that Islamic Regime is fully condemning, so what if they are?   All we can do here is to shake our head and feel sorry for peoplle of Yemen.

6:Syria:  As Sysian fight is suppressed by Islamic idealists FROM IRAN, it is infact Iranian regimes ideological imperlialism that is responsible.  

7:Egypt:  Yes, proof that overthrowing governments is first step, but the real work just begins

8: U.S:   AS A TAX PAYING CITIZEN OF US, and as a CITZEN of COUNTRY that charters itself with support for human rights, I AM RESPONSIBLE FOR HOW MY MONEY IS SPENT to conduct acts where I see is NOT IN LINE WHICH ARE IN THE CONSTITUTION NOR BILL OF RIGHTS.   It is a matter of WHERE I HAVE AND CAN EXERT CONTROL.   This all may be too much to comperhend, but  at least for me there is a consistency:

UNEQUIVOCALLY we must condmen abuse of human rights, by anyone or any government.

Where WE HAVE CONTROL, WE MUST influence to stop the abuse.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Too often people who speak ideology, HAVE to side with one oppersor or abuser of human rights or the other.   That is an artificial paradigm posed by those who conduct the abuse.   We must not to subscribe to either.

May we all have good dreams.

Because this proves the righteousness of Israel and Jews

and the hypocrisy of Isalmic Rapist regime supporters and Islam.

ey baba aynak jan, why

ey baba aynak jan, why don't you put on your aynak and read the blog again.  a.i. is saying why aren't the ones who talk about atrocities committed by israel don't like to talk about atrocities commited by the rish of pashm (arabs and iri)?  he's not saying that no one should talk about any atrocity whatsoever.  capische?

let's talk tennis now.  it'll make you feel better.  ok?

Good Observation

Seriously - how come none are crying over the killings taking place in the ME?   The fact that they all talk or remain quiet at virtualy the same time can only mean one thing - they are organized and Sandis driven.