CultureVulture

Hi Yolanda

:) Yolanda, it's nice to know there's a fellow Chinese on this webbie.. I thought most people are Iranians or partners/spouses of Iranians...

Just curious; what got you interested in Iranian culture?

Hi Yolanda

:) Yolanda, it's nice to know there's a fellow Chinese on this webbie.. I thought most people are Iranians or partners/spouses of Iranians...

Just curious; what got you interested in Iranian culture?

Still Recovering From 'Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder'...

Dear all,

Thanks again for all the advice and comments...

It all makes lots of sense, therefore I don't know why I'm still suffering from post-traumatic stress... I think this time, what makes it so horrible for me is the degree of deception when first and foremost, I had thought he is a friend and friends look after each other's feelings. A friend whom I thought whom I thought would understand made it sound like "everyone knows what kind of character he is all along, why doesn't you?" and yet she is the same person who had been telling me and some others that he is "a nice person". I just don't know what or who to trust anymore. N maybe behind my back, she is going to tell him and some of the people I mentioned in the conversation? I guess this ma experience really opens my eyes to the fact as to why interpersonal trauma is usually more long-lasting and horrific than trauma of non-human creation e.g. floods, fires etc...

N I guess the biggest trauma here arises from how I can be so 'stupid' as to give him the benefit of the doubt, although the only reason is basically my attempts to take into account what I perceive to be cultural differences (i.e. I thought that he is blowing hot and cold sometimes cos as a 'traditional boy', he might have been upset with me for talking with other platonic guyfriends)... The more I examine and reflect, the more I feel there really is nothing wrong with me, my decision to go into a relationship with him (cos he is really very "professional" in making a good image) although perhaps the greatest warning sign that I should have heeded is that he will suddenly turn hostile to me mid-conversation when a Muslim gal he knows (and whom I think he likes) suddenly passes by.

Cheers

Haze  

.....

Hi Mouse,

   I don't know much, but still learning!

Iranian men in Malaysia are defective!

Defective as in defective condoms!  Malaysia seems to be the latest destination of young Iranian men and I'm guessing soon Malaysia will make it harder for Iranians to get visas.  I should say some are defective and not all, but you know.

I wouldn't worry about your friend who married her Persian beau.  We have a saying in Farsi that you count the chickens in the fall!  Perhaps by fall his husband will seek "temporary wives" and starts going to clubs again!   If she really wants to make him happy she'd let him get additional wives! Up to 5! 

As far as Iranian culture it is really not that big of a deal.  Chinese culture is what 5000 years old?  We're half of that at 2500!  You can learn about Iranian culture but it's not that big of a deal to an average person.

Yolanda here is a red blooded Chinese woman who has been learning about Iran and her culture for nearly 3 years.  She is considered an honorary Iranian citizen by us!  She knows all about Iran, mullahs, IRI, hijab, morality police, virginity tests, Mossadegh, Prince Chubby, NIAC, AIPAC, Kabobs and a lot of other things.  Do you know about any of this stuff?!  Now I'd trust Yolanda to be able to pick a defective Iranian guy out of a line up!  

Everything is sacred

Advice from Me?

I’ll give you my opinions about discussing your past with your new love interests, if you promise not to preface your every comment about men with the word, Iranian. Iranian men are not a unique creature with unique behavior. They are men just like other men.

Generally speaking one needs to be honest about his/her past but it is not really anybody’s business who you went out with and what you did or did not do with him. And as much as people tell you that they don’t care about your past, in most cases they don’t like it, especially if you showed them pictures too!

Now, if you were in some serious relationships in the past and were about to get married or things like that, then it is important to volunteer that information. But generally, if somebody is constantly probing you about your past, then that person is most likely very insecure and you will continue to have problems with him over other things, like how tight your dress is and why you smiled at some other guy. So just don’t go there.

Cheers

Best of luck to you Dear Vulture

in your quest for finding a good Persian man whom you love and he loves you back.  Keep us updated of new developments.

........

Thank you, T9, for the poem link! The poem is very interesting and has a lot of valid points! I bookmarked yesterday!

Thanks,

That's True

Dear Truthseeker,

Tks for your comments. What you said is so true.

Cheers

Haze

Good Advice

Dear Hamsade,

Thanks for your kind advice. I will keep that in heart. Although sometimes I do feel life is rather paradoxical, which is really sad. When we try to be careful and not to get involved with a man new to western culture even if it is a man we really like, sometime later when he is taken by someone else, we discover that he is actually sincere. N on the other hand, when we try to err on the side of caution and end up being with another man we thought we have given enough consideration about, he turns out to be a big-time liar. This is how it is with me and X. I thought I know him well enough in those few months but it turns out to be a major heartbreak and disillusioning experience about humanity.

Cheers

Haze

Your Golden Advice

Thanks Faramarz for your golden words of advice. X and I are no longer together and I am glad about it. However, somehow and illogically as it may sound, something inside of me still hurts, still really hurts over the betrayal and the deceit. Honestly speaking, I really don't think I am a bad person or a bad woman and in fact I have helped him quite a lot in his academics so I just don't understand what makes him so hard-hearted that he intends to just toy with me as though I am not a person, as though I am not someone's daughter. What chills me is that if he can do this to me in such a cold-hearted way, he has never even thought of me as even a friend in the first place, cos friends take care of each other's feelings! N also, if a man can lie and cheat a woman who loves him so much, I really don't know what kind of human being he is. Or is he even human at all?

I know this sounds really stupid and illogical but part of me still continues to question myself; that perhaps I am not good enough, that perhaps I AM a slut, that's why he treated me this way. At the head level, I have been telling myself that it is not my fault and my friends have been telling me the same too, but at the heart level, I still wonder what it is that I could have done better or what it is that could have misled him into wanting me just for XXX and emotional entertainment?

Another thing that has been lurking in my heart and which I had asked earlier but no one has yet to answer:

Even for "good" Iranian men, is it a good idea to be honest about my past relationship/sexual history (which I briefly mentioned earlier) some time into the relationship if it looks like things are going to tbe serious between us? Or are Iranian men so chauvinistic that they will rather prefer not to know? Cos if a relationship cannot afford such honesty, then I am not sure if a guy loves me for who I really am, past flaws and all. Or perhaps I am just living in a dream world.

Cheers

Haze

:) hahahaha

Dear Soosan,

I am totally amused by your comments! :)

Thanks for making me laugh, cos it helps me get over my hurt and self-doubt, and in a way, makes me think that I should be happy to get away from that nasty BF. That it's his loss not mine!

On a side note, are you Iranian man or woman and do you really think so? Or you are trying to make an exaggerated, clean-fun joke?

Cheers

Haze 

:) :) :)

:) Thanks  Yolanda for your continuing kind support and encouragement...

I hope I am indeed as kind and good as what you complimented me to be *blush* I think for us Southeast Asians, we usually don't mind if the guy is a couple or so of years younger than us, as long as he is not too young i.e. younger by 4 or 5 yrs. However, if both are in their late middle-age e.g. in their 40s or 50s, it is more acceptable that the age gap is much larger.

:) I'm really sorry that I won't comment if I am from Malaysia or not, cos I have this fear that the guys whom I am talking about are on this webbie! That will be soooo embarrassing!!! Cos I have said some rather specific details of what X had said, so it is just to play safe *blush*

Cheers

Haze

Once You Go Persian, There Is No Other Way ^^

Dear C.O.P.,

Thanks for your comments and kind encouragement.

Your saying "once you go Persian, there is no other way" really tickles me pink while more or less summing up how I feel about men from this very beautiful and ancient culture :) Is it something you made up or is it an old saying?

I do hope that one day, I can have the chance to meet the right and proper Persian Prince and/or people. Sometimes when I think of how ancient and beautiful Persian culture is; how chok-full of wonderful literary arts and music this age-old culture is, then I can't help feeling a tinge of sadness that things shouldn''t have been this way - that things do NOT have to be like this. Meaning, the men do not have to live in their lonely narcissistic existance just to feel good about themselves and to safeguard their "birthright" power over the women.

Cheers

Haze 

The Best of Both Worlds :)

Dear Anahid,

Appreciate your advice and goodwill :)

The funny thing is; I actually much prefer to find a partner who is from another culture cos it will seem that we can get to enjoy the best of both cultures e.g. values, festivities, cultural wisdom etc. That said, the rational part of me knows that it is easier said than done, and it does take lots of mutual understanding, respect and effort on both ends. I don't know if I'm living in a fairy tale world, and is hoping for the best romantic "happily ever after" ending. Then again, sometimes dreams come true only when we dare to dream? =) 

Cheers

Haze

SK that was funny

But seriously, if a man is interested in you, he will be persuing you no matter what his culture. If they don't persue you there is always a good reason and you shouldn't spend any time on them. It should not be such hard work .

//www.divinecaroline.com/22065/35337-wants 

dear ms. lonley heart,as

dear ms. lonley heart,

as an asian woman in the west, you should be aware of "noodle hunters" (refer to urban dictionary); especially those who've just gotten off the boat. general rule of thumb is to find someone with your level of experience in carnal matters and everything will fall into place naturally (or at least you won't be played by a dog).

I Tend to Agree with Esfand

You are reading too much into the cultural aspects of your relationship with your BF and making very broad comments about Iranians, virginity and marriage.

Let me point out a couple of things to you.

First of all Iranian men (like many of us on this site) are a lot of fun and in high demand, but at the same time, we don’t become emotionally mature as fast as women do, so there is definitely a gap there. Also please remember that just because a friend of yours is having a good marriage with an Iranian man, it doesn’t mean that all Iranian men that you run into are going to be great husbands for you. And also just because your BF is not being honest with you about his true feelings, that doesn’t make all Iranian men undesirable. 

I think that you should walk away from this relationship at this point and if he truly wants a committed arrangement with you, he knows where to find you. All the other stuff about telling his parents this or that is just fluff. Men in general, Iranian or otherwise, will introduce their girlfriends to their parents and best friends when they are ready to make a commitment, until then they are just playing.

Well ....

To find the prince charming one has to kiss lots of frogs . But the problem with the Persian frogs is that they, genetically speaking., have no Metamorphosis ability. Once a frog they are pretty much always remain the frog.

Avoid these unique group of male species. Their lineages have gone through several cycles of mutation and backward selection. They are what's known as the hopless cases. 

lol 

.....

Hi CV,

     You are too kind. You are willing to do anything for love. You are willing to change your religion and you don't mind chauvinist man!  I saw your post title!

It seems to me that Americans don't care who is older or younger. The Iranians and Chinese prefer to have the combination of older hubby/ younger wifey!

You seem to be from Malaysia! I heard there are a lot of Iranians in Malaysia.

Your prince-charming will appear! It is just a matter of time!

Thank you for your blog and posts!

Can't paint everyone

with the same broad brush. However, when it comes to Persian men, it all depends on the kind of family they grew up in. If the guy you fell in love with came from a traditional (otherwise known as religious) family, they tend to exhibit most of the hypocritical behavior typical of moslem males. However, there are a large number of bright and forward thinking men in Iranian society. It is unfrotunate that you did not happen to befriend one.

My opinion is that you're better off without the ones you have had dealings with. If you're a modern woman you do not need some guy to tell you how to dress, behave or whom to mingle or not mingle with.

As I said, there are a lot of us out there, you just need to find the available ones.

After all, the saying goes: Once you go Persian, there is no other version.....

To CultureVulture

What I said is general and not limited to Iranian men. For instance if a French man tells a non_French woman something, if the woman is not knowledgeable about French culture, she might think that it is part of their culture but almost all French women would have no problem in knowing the answer. I think Esfand had good advice where he wrote:"I think it is easier to marry someone from your own culture or at least from the adopted country you live in."

:) Sound Advice

:) Dear Anahid, thanks for your reply. In fact, your words resonate exactly like my Iranian guyfriend whom I spoke to about X and who actually tried to warn me off him (the guyfriend whom I mentioned in some earlier posts). He actually said almost the same as you. He asked me why I want to be with Iranian men (despite being an Iranian man himself), and he even told me not to go into relationship with Iranian men cos the cultural differences is too great, that I should be "very careful" when dating Iranian men, that some Iranian men "just want to try out things they have never tried before in Iran, to find a GF to go clubbing and to just have some fun." In fact, he actually told me not to even consider the 1st Iranian guy (the one I mentioned being very attracted to cos he is so intelligent and sensitive) cos he said he knew something "not good" about him but he did not want to tell me what.

N he also laughed when I told him X rang home. He questioned me whether how I knew if he did.

I'm just so envious that there is this gal from my country who married her Persian beau, that some people just have all the luck to meet the right one :'(

Anahid, I'm just curious; are you speaking from the perspective of an Iranian woman or man? N I notice that you have deleted away parts of your earlier post. I'm wondering if you are afraid that it may offend or be scared off by those words? Incidentally, I also have one Iranian gal-friend who told me she would never date an Iranian man!

Why Can't Love Be Simpler

Appreciate all your reply, Esfand.  

Just wondering why the very few Iranian guys I met are not so liberal-minded as you? Maybe it is just my bad luck to meet them or they have not acculturated. Or, they are just not ready to settle down yet i.e. not emotionally matured enough to know what real love is.

I totally 100% agree with what you said about not using cultural differences to be a bad or weird person.

I guess it helps to listen to all your alternative opinions coming from an Iranian guy. I guess it helps in the sense that I am still not swearing off Iranian guys if the rght one comes along in future :)

...though it got me thinking whether I had been rather hasty in rejecting the first Iranian guy... Anyone has any idea? That whether I have been too quick to judge and drop him cos he's asking all those qns bout virginity?  

As you

 have explained, it seems that because you are from a different culture, you have a hard tme understanding Iranian men. At times, you might even respond positively to weird things these guys tell you because you think that it is part of their culture.

Perhaps you should forget about dating Iranian men. If you are interested in Iranian culture, that does not mean that you have to have an Iranian boyfriend. Be attarcted to the culture, watch Iranain movies, read about the country's history, eat Persian food but don't get into relationship with Iranian guys, at least until you are smarter about them.

He sounds like trouble.

From all the things you've said he seems like trouble and perhaps the best thing for you is just to forget about him and move on.  You can't haggle him into anything and even if he succums to haggling (which I highly doubt) it is nor worthed.  You're bound to run into trouble again.

Cultural differences should never be used as an excuse to be a bad or weird person.  You can't expect a woman to be virgin before you marry her so if someone says so they are problems, stay away from them and move on!  Doesn't matter which culture.  Even in America with all the freedoms, some red-blooded white Americans want their wives to be virgin.

I think it is easier to marry someone from your own culture or at least from the adopted country you live in.  It is definitely easier to live with someone from your own culture.  I am more comfortable with an Iranian woman and you're probably more comfortable with a Chinese man.

So don't focus on anything specific that you need to change, if a guy is an asshole you don't need to change for him, just move on. 

Got to go now, bye. 

Everything is sacred

More Cultural Confusion :(

Dear Esfand,

 Thanks again for replying... But the thing is that his friends (all their 20s) are the ones who are saying that virginity is important! *confused* and at that time, I was not even his GF yet, we are all just normal friends! N it is my male Iranian frd (not from my ex's group) in his very early 30s who told me that he would mind if his GF is older than him, and that my ex's family would mind too.

N I don't know if he understood; I'm not saying I want to marry him right now, but I just want to know that he can say no to his parents. Cos I need to know that he is not going to marry someone cos his mum said so.

Moreover, he said that he has several relationships in the past when his arranged marriage thingy is also made known to them, and that he has broken up with at least one GF cos she gets too serious. He said that his parents had made him promise to let them choose a wife for him before he went overseas for studies many years ago, and that even if the gal is Iranian, they will not be happy too. I don't know if it is lies or what but I have never wanted him to promise to marry me, just to let me know that he is willing not to follow his parents' wishes. That's all.  

Right now, he is the one who does not want to be with me anymore although I had said that I can go over to Iran to visit his parents when he did so during holiday so that they can see me for who I am, as long as he is willing to say no to his parents' arranged marriage. But I think ultimately, he is just a player. Hence all the lies.

If an Iranian man is ready to marry he won't mind.

I think in a lot of your questions you're putting the horse before the carriage.  Does an Iranian man mind if a woman is few years older than him when he decides to marry her?  If he is marriage material, no, but if he is not marriage material, yes.

When you're thinking about someone whom you might want to marry you need to have a little more understanding of yourself and him before you get serious.  For example, what is your plan after marriage?  Why should you two get married?  You don't need to answer me but need answers for yourself and your future life partner.

Marriage is one thing, life after marriage is another.  What are you two going to do after you get married?  

Usually Iranian men in their 20s or 30s don't go back home and bring back a "virgin" gal.  Iranian men in their 40s and 50s do that!  If you hear those stories that's because they're looking for an excuse to put you on their waiting list because you are either too serious (marriage) or don't want to have a sexual relationship.

Bottom line, the right guy for you will come along and can be from anywhere in the world.  Having a sexual relationship while getting to know each other is not a taboo.  It's ok to have it and there is more to someone than NOT having sex with you.  It's all part of the process.

There are a lot of things to talk about such as finaces, does he have debts, do you have debts, does he have job skills, do you have job skills, what kind of families you're having.  Imagine dealing with his family if you're having trouble now!  Get to know each other families and see if you're both decent normal people and go from there.  good luck! 

Everything is sacred

:) Motives Are Fine If They Are Good

Dear Faramarz,

Thanks for your reply too and for wishing me well :)

Actually, I don't think I am ready to upgrade my status to "married" cos I am not ready to marry him as yet. I only want him to be able to commit to me such that he knows he is willing and able to say no to his parents' proposed arranged marriage.

I guess the part about saying no to the arranged marriage (if it is even true at all in his case) is a bit hard for me to understand cos I come from a much more Westernized, individualised culture (albeit still Chinese roots) and moreover, I know of someone from my country who has married an Iranian man, so I just can't understand why he can't say no. I guess he is never serious to start out with, and I guess it is better to know now than when things get more serious. I just think he is being irresponsible and reckless with others' feelings, only thinking of his own needs.

For me, I did not and will not have sex with him. Honestly, I think that if Iranian men can respect their Iranian GFs enough not to pressure them into having sex with them so early into their relationship, or even at all before marriage, then they should be able to respect their non-Iranian GF enough to do the same, if he really loves her. I am guessing that you are a man cos men are more socially conditioned to take sex as a physical thingy than emotional bondings than women. More women than men will become more emotionally attached to a man, even a man whom she knows nevee really loves her, after they get physically intimate. N there is also the thing about unexpected preganncy. We all know that no contraceptive in this world is 100% foolproof and I am personally of the opinion that I will not want an abortion even if the father of the child does not want the child. So that will leave me in a really sticky situation should I have sex with him who cannot even say no to his arranged marriage?

That said, I have to admit that I am not a virgin. Not too sure if I should be saying such sensitive things here. But after I was raped (my first sexual experience) as a 14YO and never reported it out of shame, I had really low self-esteem and been involved in several sexual relationships with BFs. But when I was around 18YO, I decided that that is not the kind of life I want and the image I want others to have of me. I can't say all those BFs I had in the past were bad; the last few were what I will consider serious BFs but things just didn't work out. N my sexual history doesn't mean that I will want or need to have sex with BFs from now on, cos since I was 23YO, I have decided that I will not want to have sex with my BFs until we get married and I will be totally honest about my past with him should things get serious so that he can consider if he can accept it and stay with me. This bit about my sexual past is also something which is a big area of concern for me in terms of deciding whether it is worth it or not to fall in love with another Iranian or M.E. man. I know that a woman's virginity is a big thing for many Iranian men. N I know this too cos the first Iranian man I really like (the one whom I mentioned earlier as repeatedly asking me if I am a virgin or not and whether I had sex with previous BFs or not) had been asking me such qns about my virginity although we are not BF/GF and we are only dating. Cos I do not want to fall in love with an Iranian man again only to have him break up with me after I told him the truth about my past. To me, honesty is so important in a relationship for both people to be soulmates.

Cheers

Haze

Chauvinism Is Ok If He is a Sincere Guy :)

Dear Esfand,

 Thanks for taking the time to reply and for your well wishes. I think some of the things I mentioned in an earlier post are not too clear, hence the confusion, so I will clarify them here ^^

Firstly, he did not say his parents want him to marry his ex. He said his parents wanted him to be in an arranged marriage with someone they choose for him. I did not expect him to marry me after just one week together (neither do I want to marry any man after only one week!); I only want him to be able to commit such that he is able to tell me that he is ready to tell his parents that he is in a relationship with me and does not want the arranged marriage. I only need him to be able to do that; whether we work out and get married or not, that is something in the future. I thought that when he first proposed for me (or any other gal) to be his GF, that should be something he should already be mentally prepared to do, without the gal having to ask him? Also, he is not my date. He is my BF cos we have known each other as friends for a few months, then he asked me to be his GF and I considered it for a couple of months before I agreed. So after that, we were BF and GF for two weeks, then we broke up :(

 Yes, you are right; I am indeed in that age bracket which you said, and he is too, but he is a couple of years or so younger than me. N one of my Iranian guyfriends not from his group told me that he would never be able to marry me should things work out for us cos I am older (though just a few years) than him. Is that true? That Iranian men will mind so much that their serious GF or wife should not be older than them? He is not from Tehran, by the way, and I heard that families from Tehran will generally be more open-minded and accepting. Is this true also?

After hearing what you said about Iranian and M.E. men being all sex deprived, I think maybe they only want to have sex with non-Iranian GF and not because they really love them? Is it possible not to have sex with an Iranian BF and yet he can still be faithful and true to her and be with her long-term? Or ultimately, they will still want to go home and marry that good, virgin Iranian woman mum has choosen for him? How common is arranged marriage in Iran today among the younger generation in  their 20s and 30s?

The reason why I am asking him to change the FB status is cos it is normal to do so in my culture the very moment we are together in a relationship cos it will mean that there is no one else in his life. I need him to tell his parents cos he said they will make him marry in a few mths' time; how can I take the risk of falling deeper and deeper in love with a man who also wants to be sexually intimate with me, knowing he will break up with me soon to marry someone else? I need to ask serious qns cos I can't date a guy forever without knowing what his plans are about us. It is not about wanting him to marry me right now, but about knowing that he is prepared to say no to the arranged marriage in future should we work out.

Moreover, I don't think it is about my age that I am trying to settle down. I have known of other gals in their very early 20s who have the same arranged marriage thingy with their M.E. BFs who after a few years of dating still can't say no to their parents. These much younger gals have also, like me, seen the need to "ask serious qns"... Lastly, who knows, after all the lies he told me, maybe the arranged marriage thingy is just an excuse he made up - that maybe he has an Iranian GF back home he intends to marry and making up the arranged marriage story and putting all the responsibility on his parents just make him look better during the break-up! :(

Cheers

Haze