Pro-Baha'i Censorship and the Double Standards of Iranian.Com

Baha'i is a loving faith of unity and non-prejudice

The Baha'i faith is very loving and represents high integrity and freedom of personal spiritual beliefs in a peaceful world without prejudice.  Please visit //www.MonasDream.com to learn more about the ruthless persecution of the Baha'i in Iran and a movie being made about the torture and hanging of ten Baha'i women in 1983 by the Islamic Regime.  Prepare to have tears brought to your eyes as you read about sweet young Mona who was only 16 when she was arrested for her belief in the loving ideals of the Baha'i faith.  Like Neda, she too was an Angel of Iran.

Love and Light, Paula B. Slater

Shepesh

Shepesh: "He is now posting under another called Ravian Bilani. We would not like to deprive him of his paid career."

Mr Azal actually offered the disclosure of his IP address to establish and distinguish his posting identity, and no response was forthcoming. Would you like to know how long the second claim regarding a "paid career" would stand up in a legal setting, given full access to financial records, Shepesh? 

.

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Awwww Poor Baby Zulfaghr110 = Death_To_Fascism was blocked

well  when you post noting but vodka and hashish induced rantings then the censors have no choice but to delete your account....

now the nurse will return you to your cell  

have a wonderful day 

delete

delete

"Good Name and Reputation of the Faith…???? In what cost?"

abdAllah, you maybe a good servent of Allah but he still wants you to use your head.

Your question above shoud say At what Gain not at what cost.

Self centered street leaders like some of the people here cost the Islamic world so many young lives especially in Iran. Instead of trying to look at everything with the fault finders eyes, just use a little Ensaf, impartiality and you not only learn alot but also Understand alot.

Peace 

Nina tell Sophia that right now

he need to stop issuing veiled threats, the bar association is going to look at all these for the Gotheads sake.

Sentiments do not enter the equation

Right now, sentiments do not enter the equation. Documentable statements and actions do. 

No I dont care about the other people

I care about you. I do not know you but can relate to you, you remind me of myself when I was younger. Traumas can affect people, I want you to stop this obssessing with past and look to the future. Do not pick friends according to religeon, do not be manipulated by others agendas, but listen to those that love you (irrespective of their religeon).  FORGET religeon and remember people. I do not know people on this web page but use the facility to email your old friends and patiently with open mind overcome  differences in private, not in public.  I wish you happiness, which you deserve.

You do not have to reply to me. What you do is your decision.

Careful, sag koochooloo

SagKoochooloo - you are, I assume, referring to posters Sam Ghandchi and Mash_Ghasem in this thread?

//newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Soc/soc.culture.iranian/2007-04/msg01989.html

I will again refer you to another of user Mash_Ghasem's posts:

//newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Soc/soc.culture.iranian/2009-02/msg00133.html

Mash Ghasem: " Youare an IRI spy madar ghahbe and now you are exposed :-) Keeping track of SCIers and trying to identify them! Hah. Bilakh dayous. What did changeyour mind jAkesh? Was is it kire Shykhe Khiabani to koseh nanat or hisdonkey's? ;-) Tell your jendeh sister I am keeping her panty. It smellstoo good ;-) Get your mother fucking IRI ass out of SCI. No one here is interested with lajan like you. You have no audience here. Get the fuckout of SCI sell out IRI agent dayous.”

 If you are indeed making such assertions, and you have no proof of your claims that this poster is a Muslim, then you owe the Muslim readers of this thread an explanation. 

Furthermore,  am I to believe you are making similar claims about Sam Ghandchi's status as a Muslim Editor, as you suggest in the title of your post (which I have archived along with the rest of your post, and you will find repeated below)?

"Other Editors (muslims) give verdict on his claims

by sag koochooloo on Fri Sep 25, 2009 01:03 PM PDT"

Regarding Sam Ghandchi 

//www.ghandchi.com/12-AboutBahai.htm

ABOUT THE BAHA'I CULTISH PRACTICES

//ghandchi.com/12-AboutBahai.htm

FOREWORD posted on Jebhe BB on 1/23/02 - As far as my stand on the Baha'is, although I oppose their UHJ as a cult, the same way I oppose other cults, but at the same time I condemn the violations of Baha'is human rights by the Islamic Republic of Iran and I think the IRI and its agents should be brought to justice in an international criminal court for their actsof violence against the Baha'is, and tried for crimes against humanity.

I received the following pointer from Juan Cole in 1999 when I had posted the following article about cultish practices of Baha'is on IRANSCOPE and SCI and Juan Cole allowed me to post his replyas well, which is added below:

Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 14:15:43 -0600
To: ghandchi@home.com
From: Juan Cole <jrcole@umich.edu>
Subject: Baha'is
 

Dear Sam:

I saw your courageous message about the cultish practices of the Baha'is
and your call for a critic from within. I thought you might be
interested in the following paper:

//www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/1999/jssr/bhjssr.htm
cheers Juan Cole

Since then, I visited Juan Cole's website, and I foundhis research on the topic to be very impressive. Unfortunately he does not drop Baha'i Faith all the way and wants to reform it, but his theoretical work on the cultish practices of Baha'i Universal House of Justice (UHJ), and other topics related to the Baha'i practices, are first hand interesting research.Juan Cole's home page is at the following URL:

//www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/index.htm
 

***********************************************************

XXX wrote:

..

> perfect sense to me that they killed him [DanJordan], although it also demonstrates what supreme cowards

> the reactionary fascist regime of the terrorist mullocracy are for failing to publicly take responsibility ever since.

Dear XXX,

I do not know about this case and irrespective ofwhether your claim that Islamic Republic of Iran (IRI) is responsible for this murder [of Dan Jordan], or Patrick's claim that Baha'i uhj is responsible, there is a problem here, beyond this case.

I think there has been a lot of discussions on SCI andelsewhere, about violations of human rights by IRI, and I do not think anybodyin their right mind can deny that. But I think when the issue is violations of human rights in Baha'i practices, there is a hush hush, on the justificationthat Baha'is of Iran are victims of abuses of Islamic Republic of Iran, butthis is no justification to ignore the realities of Baha'i practices.

In fact, some Baha'is, who never posted as Baha'is onSCI, and would only post technical question and answers, wrote to me thank you notes, and called me friend and wrote that they wished all non-Bahai's would think like me, when I defended the human rights of Baha'is in Iran, but when I criticized their cultish practices, suddenly they would insult me anyway theycould, to discourage me from posting my views. In fact, they would write about political and social writings of other SCIers, as if they were disinterested independent objective authors, but in reality they belonged to the Baha'iFaith.

Beside the above situation, I can tell you that alsoon SCI, two of the most intelligent Baha'is, who posted on other topics, and also said they were Baha'i, nonetheless, one could never have a rational talk with them about Baha'i Faith and worse than that, they were afraid to challenge some other Baha'is, who were as bad as Islamist hezbollAhis. I do not want to say more about what that BahaollAhi finally did with them. I think the individuals is not the issue here and it is a waste of time to go into details.The issue is the practices of followers of "Bahai Faith" and human rights.

Look, the Baha'i Faith is not even in power and thereis so much fear among its adherents, or former adherents. This is not out ofrespect, that is a lie. This is obviously because of fear. This is like Leninism and Stalinism or even worse.

When I asked one of them, he would justify the fanatic, saying that well this Baha'i fanatic guy has had his parents killed by IRI and this is why that guy is such a fanatic, etc. In fact, I also sawBaha'is with different presences and roles on SCI, as pure dishonesty. When onedoes not say s/he is a Baha'i, and only discusses technical topics, and suddenly writes as if s/he is an independent-minded professor or a simple contributor writing feedback, who is just reading SCI, and is passing judgmenton the authors of different religious and political views, this is what I calldishonesty.  I think just condemning the Mollahs and theocracy in Iran isnot going to resolve this reality. I think Baha'is live in a very cultish environment, where they feel like traitors, if they do not want to be religious,or if they do not want to have anything to do with this religion, or any other religion for that matter.

Actually seeing this reality of fear among Iranian Baha'is and former Baha'is, even in the West, with all its freedoms, is amazing. I think it has nothing to do with Baha'i persecution in Iran, when even former Baha'is are so reserved to criticize these realities and they walkon ice. This is not much different from EST or Scientology and other similarcults. I think Flo Conway and Jim Siegelman's analysis of cults well applies toBaha'i Faith. Please see my article on Cults:

//www.ghandchi.com/37-Cults.htm

I think just like the final critic of Communism, that came from within, the critic of Baha'i Faith from within is needed, and going beyond it, rather than staying entangled in this ideology, is long overdue.

Regards,

Sam Ghandchi, Publisher

IRANSCOPE

//www.IRANSCOPE.com

Dec 12, 1999

P.S. The following article by Juan Cole is anexcellent writing on this topic:

//iranscope.ghandchi.com/Anthology/Bahai/fundamentalism.htm

Other Editors (muslims) give verdict on his claims

//newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Soc/soc.culture.iranian/2007-04/msg01989.html

"This kos-xol is far removed from reality. What a sad case.
He really is in need of professional help. Now people can see
that his bullshits about bahais is all that! BULLSHIT."

//groups.google.com.bn/group/soc.culture.iranian/browse_thread/thread/3ed4df50ddb4a806

"Nima seriously you should stop posting on all these
newsgroups and seek help.  You talk of a new
religion better than those you attack but you
just bring hate in every post you make.  You
need help man. "

Some thoughts on the

actual differences b/w organized and disorganized religion and the implications, assumptions aside. 

When you got Imams popin up with their factions and Ayatullahs issuing fatva against each other at every corner then you have a disorganized religion where no one member or leader can be held accountable or would respect the will of the majority and as a result there is always wars, strife and hardship.

Being under the same roof does not equate an organized orderly state. That is why they get away with raping kids in prison and oppresing the majority in the name of Religion. 

Likewise in an organized house your housband couldnt bring his male lover and claim that it is his natural right or could he?

Faryar

Faryar: "Every organisation has rules and standards of behaviour, especially one whose goal and aim is the spiritual regeneration and upliftment of society;"

And every organization must be held accountable for its actions, particularly at a legal level. Furthermore, your own faith's writings do not suggest that the Baha'i organization wishes to limit the scope of its influence to a contained Baha'i community:

"In reality, there is only one religion, the religion of God. This one religion is continually evolving, and each particular religious system represents a stage in the evolution of the whole. The Bahá'í Faith represents the current stage in the evolution of religion."  Regarding this process, the Universal House of Justice claims that, "Baha'u'llah's principal mission in appearing at this time in human history is the realization of the oneness of mankind and the establishment of peace among the nations; therefore, all the forces which are focused on accomplishing these ends are influenced by His Revelation. We know, however, that peace will come in stages. First, there will come the Lesser Peace, when the unity of nations will be achieved, then gradually the Most Great Peace - the spiritual as well as social and political unity of mankind, when the Baha'i World Commonwealth, operating in strict accordance with the laws and ordinances of the Most Holy Book of the Baha'i Revelation, will have been established through the efforts of the Baha'is." "Surely the world, contracted and transformed into a single highly complex organism by the marvellous progress achieved in the realm of physical science, by the world-wide expansion of commerce and industry, and struggling, under the pressure of world economic forces, amidst the pitfalls of a materialistic civilization, stands in dire need of a restatement of the Truth underlying all the Revelations of the past in a language suited to its essential requirements. And what voice other than that of Bahá’u’lláh—the Mouthpiece of God for this age—is capable of effecting a transformation of society as radical as that which He has already accomplished in the hearts of those men and women, so diversified and seemingly irreconcilable, who constitute the body of His declared followers throughout the world? That such a mighty conception is fast budding out in the minds of men, that voices are being raised in its support, that its salient features must fast crystallize in the consciousness of those who are in authority, few indeed can doubt. That its modest beginnings have already taken shape in the world-wide Administration with which 48 the adherents of the Faith of Bahá’u’lláh stand associated only those whose hearts are tainted by prejudice can fail to perceive. Ours, dearly-beloved co-workers, is the paramount duty to continue, with undimmed vision and unabated zeal, to assist in the final erection of that Edifice the foundations of which Bahá’u’lláh has laid in our hearts, to derive added hope and strength from the general trend of recent events, however dark their immediate effects, and to pray with unremitting fervor that He may hasten the approach of the realization of that Wondrous Vision which constitutes the brightest emanation of His Mind and the fairest fruit of the fairest civilization the world has yet seen. Might not the hundredth anniversary of the Declaration of the Faith of Bahá’u’lláh mark the inauguration of so vast an era in human history?"

From "The Mouthpiece of God" //reference.bahai.org/en/t/se/WOB/wob-25.html

Faryar: "As a rule Bahais act according to their personal conscience, convictions and spiriitual responsibilities to God alone; Bahais do not have intermediaries or a moral police force; The only policing is one's own self respect and regard for one's beliefs and principles and no one can interfere in one's personal life."

Again the evidence of behavior exhibited by various Baha'i institutions suggests otherwise:

//bahai library.com/published.uhj/counsellors.html

"Protection of the Cause"

The pivot of the oneness of humankind is the power of the Covenant, and this power quickens every distinguishing element of Bahá'í life. It is in the context of this unique characteristic of Bahá'u'lláh's Revelation that the institution of the Counsellors approaches its sacred duty to protect the Faith. Auxiliary Board members, particularly those assigned to protection, have to be ever conscious of the imperative need for a centre on which all must focus: `Abdu'l-Bahá the Centre of the Covenant and His designated successors, the Guardian and the Universal House of Justice.In discharging their obligations related to protection, the Counsellors and Auxiliary Board members endeavour to nourish the roots of certitude, fan the flame of an all-embracing love in the hearts of the friends, combat the age-old habit of conflict and contention and fortify bonds of friendship and unity, promote adherence to principle and the ethical standards enshrined in the Teachings, raise the believers' sight above the limitations of self-centredness that they may dedicate their energies to the welfare of the human race, and strengthen their allegiance to the Order of Bahá'u'lláh. Helping the believers to meet high moral standards does not require prying into their private lives. The nature of this responsibility is essentially educative. The loving advice Board members offer Local Assemblies, on the one hand, and the warm fellowship they and their assistants cultivate with the friends, on the other, are ready means through which they are able to advance this educational process. The cumulative effect of these efforts, combined with the benefits the friends derive from formal courses, for instance those offered by the training institute, contributes greatly to the creation of healthy and vibrant local communities. This educational process includes the imposition of sanctions by the Spiritual Assemblies, whenever it becomes absolutely necessary. In such cases the advice of the Counsellors and Auxiliary Board members to the Assembly can be of particular value.Although deepening the friends' understanding of the Covenant and increasing their love and loyalty to it are of paramount importance, the duties of the Auxiliary Board members for[page 16]Protection do not end here. The Board members must remain ever vigilant, monitoring the actions of those who, driven by the promptings of ego, seek to sow the seeds of doubt in the minds of the friends and undermine the Faith. In general, whenever believers become aware of such problems, they should immediately contact whatever institution they feel moved to turn to, whether it be a Counsellor, an Auxiliary Board member, the National Spiritual Assembly or their own Local Assembly. It then becomes the duty of that institution to ensure that the report is fed into the correct channels and that all the other institutions affected are promptly informed. Not infrequently, the responsibility will fall on an Auxiliary Board member, in coordination with the Assembly concerned, to take some form of action in response to the situation. This involvement will include counselling the believer in question; warning him, if necessary, of the consequences of his actions; and bringing to the attention of the Counsellors the gravity of the situation, which may call for their intervention. Naturally, the Board member has to exert every effort to counteract the schemes and arrest the spread of the influence of those few who, despite attempts to guide them, eventually break the Covenant.The need to protect the Faith from the attacks of its enemies may not be generally appreciated by the friends, particularly in places where attacks have been infrequent. However, it is certain that such opposition will increase, become concerted, and eventually universal. The writings clearly foreshadow not only an intensification of the machinations of internal enemies, but a rise in the hostility and opposition of its external enemies, whether religious or secular, as the Cause pursues its onward march towards ultimate victory. Therefore, in the light of the warnings of the Guardian, the Auxiliary Boards for Protection should keep "constantly" a "watchful eye" on those "who are known to be enemies, or to have been put out of the Faith", discreetly investigate their activities, alert intelligently the friends to the opposition inevitably to come, explain how each crisis in God's Faith has always proved to be a blessing in disguise, and prepare them for the "dire contest which is destined to range the Army of Light against the forces of darkness".

That's called "policing" the activities of members, Faryar. Again, employ whatever euphemisms you wish, but understand the limited capacity in which such euphemisms will be accepted (and by which bodies) as precise and consistent statements regarding the nature of the action taken.

Faryar: "No one tells me how to think or what to write. However If I, as a known Bahai on this site, start making statements that affect the Bahai community as a whole, It would not then be a personal matter, but one that affects others. I personally believe that freedom of expression is not absolute."

There are, however, some people who do, Faryar.

Faryar:"No one or any one I know has ever been "silenced" as you put it."

Again, a substantial amount of documentable, submissible evidence suggests otherwise, not least of all the evidence associated with the case of Mr Taheri.

Faryar: "However when a "Bahai" acts in a manner that negatively affects the community as a whole, one that can affect the unity or the integrity of The Bahai community; only then a person is cautioned , offered corrective guidance and counselling. If the person is adamant and insists on such behaviour ; then his/her voting rights can be removed, which would prevent them from either voting or be considered for serving in any administrative capacity; but only after a considerable effort of "loving guidance"; just as the firm but loving discipline that must exist in a Family."

Unfortunately, mere expulsion from the Faith has not always constituted the entirety of the consequences experienced by certain individuals. Sorry, Faryar, euphemistic language doesn't wash in every context, though you might believe it does.

Faryar: "This continued and futile effort to try portray the Bahai community in this way only shows the sheer desperation, bitterness, the moral and spiritual bankruptcy of those who continue to try to sow seeds of doubt in the minds of the unfamiliar.Their miserable intentions, has not only NOT stopped the growth and the progress of the Bahai Faith, but has had the opposite effect of making people look deeper into its merits."

Any organized belief system, with both substantial monetary concerns and a program of organized education and NGO activity, which endorses expansive goals for the perceived transformation of a society, deserves to be subject to the most rigorous questioning and scrutiny, just as citizens demand transparency and accountability from governments and their instruments. What you colorfully term as the "futile effort to try portray the Bahai community in this way" and you claim "shows the sheer desperation, bitterness, the moral and spiritual bankruptcy of those who continue to try to sow seeds of doubt in the minds of the unfamiliar" constitutes language and rhetoric that has been applied to many circumstances in which genuine concerns have been raised regarding the behavior and machinations of the Baha'i organization. Obviously, it is not my job to convince you regarding the commentary I have given on these issues. However, they do constitute opinions which should be carefully considered when assessing the way the activities of the Baha'i organization may be viewed. 

Good Name and Reputation of the Faith…????

In what cost?

Dear Anvar,

Although I do agree of protecting the integrity of our faiths but I do not agree we (Islam & Baha'i faith) have the same definition for apostasy or I should say amplitude of our examples of them are including the same cases as yours .

In Islam society we can have critics , dissidents or reformers and they are not call apostate but as I know Bahais have Zero tolerate toward to any critic , dissident or reformers ,their reasoning  for sake of unity but oppressing for unity ? than what is the difference of dictator governments and them ? this reason can also serve dictatorship desire of some individuals, and today world who wants dictators ?

I heard some one said :"when we say jump dont say why ,just say how high " that person is Mr. Arab HUJ member ,is that correct dear Anvar ? if this is the policy than.. 

Now ,in what degree can be dissenters and critics in Islam ? as long as opinion peacefully expressed , no plotting and no hand  reach any weapons . even in some cases  hands went on weapons but still they are not being called apostate, there were many example in past you can think of.(and this is not include those schismatics who work with or in line of enemy of Islam and came to abrogate Islam totally and they are not shy to say it ).

 by examining couple cases of the Baha'i apostates let say : Mr. Sen McGilenn  &  Mrs. Alison Marshal ,Dr.Cole they are peaceful individual who even love Baha'ullah and have no mean to harm their beloved faith (till today), and in contrary of what you said Mr. Anvar "long loving process"  with out warning( at list A.Marshal ) they were expelled ,and that is not long loving process that is to me making an example of iron-fist.

 you say : "In the Baha’i Faith, ALL adherents must freely and voluntarily choose to join this religion"

Is this mean freely they have to lose all their voices  ?  for instant there was a paper in CA produced by Baha'i youth for promoting their beloved faith what was the reason they had to be shut down ?(I dont remember the name) let say in IRI at list they have their day in the court , what about Sen and Alison and that news paper ?, did they have their day to defend their view ?  were they given any chance?

And after all pleas show me where in Quran said Apostates have to be killed ? maybe you find it in soreh  60:8.

 even 160 years ago If Bobbies had not start killing of innocent at the beginning of their movements they would 've never been dealt with the way they were dealt.and lots of innocent wouldn't lose their life,  therefore your claim of protecting of the cause , in what cost ?cost of free speech and questioning of dark part of faith ? ? I dont think faith can hold on to people questions for so long,  Persian saying : you can close the gate but you cant close mouths .در دروازه را میتوان بست در دهانها را نه.

با تشکر

Every organisation has rules and standards ...

Every organisation has rules and standards of behaviour, especially

one whose goal and aim is the spiritual regeneration and upliftment of society;

One that can only be realised by individual choice and will for self betterment.

As a rule Bahais act according to their personal conscience, convictions and spiriitual responsibilities to God alone; Bahais  do not have intermediaries or a moral police force; The only policing is one's own self respect and regard for one's beliefs and principles and no one can interfere in one's personal life. 

No one tells me how to think or  what to write. However If I, as a known Bahai on this site, start making statements that affect the Bahai community as a whole, It would not then be a personal matter, but one that affects others. I personally believe that freedom of expression is not absolute.

No one or any one I know has ever been "silenced" as you put it.

However when a "Bahai" acts in a manner that negatively affects the community as a whole, one that can affect the unity or the integrity of The Bahai community; only then a person is cautioned , offered corrective guidance and counselling. 

If the person is adamant and insists on such behaviour ; then his/her voting rights can be removed, which would prevent them from either voting or be considered for serving in any administrative capacity; but only after a considerable effort of "loving guidance"; just as the firm but loving discipline that must exist in a Family.

This continued and  futile effort to try portray the Bahai community in this way only shows the sheer desperation, bitterness, the moral and spiritual bankruptcy of those who continue to try to sow seeds of doubt in the minds of the unfamiliar.

Their miserable intentions, has not only NOT stopped the growth and the progress of the Bahai Faith, but has had the opposite effect of making people look deeper into its merits.

Seagull and Faryar

"Due to the need to protect the Faith in Australia the National Assembly feels it necessary to warn you that failure to comply with this instruction will result in the removal of your administrative rights." (end quote)

Fairly clear. 

By the way, what was NITV again?  

Good Name and Reputation of the Faith…

*sophia* - Which “organization” is paying for your time and effort to take on new clients?  I hope people don’t think that your obligation to represent these two gentlemen is part of a larger unholy malevolent, misguided, “organized” effort against Baha’is.    

Of course, to be in line in my friend’s method here, I wonder if I should innocently add “I don’t know.”

We were discussing whether or not Baha’is “organize” to flag posts (50 or more each post) on the “Pro Baha’i Censorship and the Double Standards of Iranian.com” blog.  
Since my effort to address the issue at hand has created confusion for the accusatory individuals.  Assuming the confusion is genuine; let me share few thoughts and concepts in a way that I hope all, from open-minded intellectuals to close-minded zealots, can easily understand.

In some religions, despite the claim that there are no compulsions in choosing a faith, the punishment for apostasy is literally DEATH!  Whether it is based on the need to pad membership statistics, protection of religion, fear of becoming irrelevant, or love for the individual is beyond the scope of discussion here.   

In the Baha’i Faith, ALL adherents must freely and voluntarily choose to join this religion.  There is no such a thing as a coerced or incidental Baha’i.  Even those who are born into this faith must at some point, using their own conscience and free will, make a choice for themselves to be one or not.  There’s no such a thing as a Baha’i by default!  
Baha’is truly practice the concept of No Compulsion in Religion.

The Baha’i Worldwide Community has certain expectations of the adherents to conduct themselves ethically and in accordance to the noble teachings of the faith.

When certain individuals choose to conduct themselves in behavior inconsistent with the established high ethical standards, they will be asked to re-examine their situation and deepen themselves about the teachings of the faith.  The community, however, has a good name and reputation that must be upheld globally.  People who, for whatever reason, damage the faith are not officially recognized as Baha’is.  In theses rare cases, and after a long and loving process, the individual and the rest of the community will be made aware of the person’s new status.

One of the benefits of this self monitoring/correcting mechanism is that all human beings can rest assured that Baha’is will never produce violent groups like Jewish Defense League, Irish Republican Army, or Islamic Brotherhood that have damaged the good names and reputations of the religions.  

As anyone can see in earlier comments down below, this has been the “punishment” for such individuals: “The friends are therefore advised to leave him to himself.”

Obviously, Baha’is have not applied the penalty that other religions prescribe and had these individuals been “Silenced”, then they couldn’t have dropped their “pearls of wisdom” all over the world.

Unfortunately, some people choose to overlook the atrocities that their own brethren in faith commit (by leaving that for God to decide later), but somehow feel compelled to coerce the infidels of other faiths to the Straight Path!

Creating Fitna is not conducive to the cause of love and unity amongst people.

Anvar

BahaI Participation in Partisan politics..

The Letter quoted, simply is reminding Mr Taheri, who was probably inovolved in one of these so called persian TV" Programmes", that his invovement in a programme with a heavy partisan bent (whichever idealogy) is against Bahai principles and more than likely harmful for the situation of Bahais back in Iran.

As a producer in charge of one of the Production facilities in LA, I can attest to  the general poor quality and thoughtless content of these programmes, whether in the US or in Australia.

These often Zero Budget persian language programmes, which hardly survived solely on advertisemnt sold to local merchants were void of any creative or journalistic merit , higly partisan with little credibility.

It is not surprisng that the National Assembly of Bahais of Australia did not approve  of this association , and the general Iranian public to think that Mr taheri's programme or opinon is in any way representative of Bahais in general.

I am not familair with the case and do not know who Mr taheri or his programme; Mr Taheri was quite free to do what Homa Ehsan did, by expressing what ever political activity or opinion he had, but not as a Bahai.

A example of Homa Ehsan's programme.

is this the finer points!!

and the credentials, then foozieh it is.

Good dye mite

Yes, the finer points.....like this one.

"...the finer points of the situation..." ya right

You give me your credentials then you can enlighten me with the Situation!!!, untill then go intimidate people in maydoone foozieh.

What a telling response, Seagull

What a telling response, Seagull. Best brush up on your understanding of the finer points of the situation. 

Shofia

Are you representing Zulf or Reza41 or abdAllah?

You allegedly a lawyer, albeit without a real name and credentials, are not here to instigate others on behalf of the public who did not retain your rear services. Stick to your Zulfali client, or you maybe compromising yourself....

Answer abdAllah's question

Dear abdAllah if indeed you are sincere which I am sure UR;

My suggestion to you and all the good pious peace loving moslems like yourself is this; Instead of getting envolved in chat room broakery you should spend your time convincing the world that you are indeed peacefull and have goodwill toward all other religions and leave the Allahs challenges to HIM. How can you and why do you do this; start defending those who have been wronged by your co-religionists, give voice to the Iranian women, ethnic and religious minorities and alike. Why, the answer is not clear it is obvious, people such as yours have the book in one hand and the bloody sword on the other and the trust is betrayed. Show the world that you care about humanity and moslems and jews and the rest alike.What are you doing here holding hands with a person who is the face of Negative, Uglyness and Repulsion. Do some damage control you owe this one to Allah, God willing.

Mr. Anvar ,thanks again

Dear Mr.Anvar,

thanks for clarification , you wrote :"*abdAllah* making the accusatory and invalid statement that Mr. Azal’s posts get 50 flags and it is an organized effort (which I put his full quote in my earlier post),"

let see what exactly I said : 

"Although I'm not fan of madness of Mr. Azal and I dont think that is a best way of expressing his thought toward to his opponent, how ever I dont think JJ has much choice when Mr. Azal posts gets  let say 5O flags or mor , and I think when JJ see all this flags ,he has no choice but to block him. now, is this mass flagging some one like this , it is organized or not ? I dont know. ]]]]]

as you see  instead of Mr. Azal theory which accuse JJ purposely blocking him (I dont see  how JJ would have time to follow every thread)
or JJ being Bahai or biast,I offered "mass flagging" could be to cause of it (which I still believe), and by saying "let say 50 flags or more" should be clear to any one that, "50 or more" are only my presumtion and NOT as you said "accusing"(I'm sure you agree with me that you may over looked and misunderstood my sentence).

Dear anvar:

In case if you totally disagree with my suggestion, are you suggesting Mr. Azal is right in his theory to blaming JJ and Bahai lobbing ? because as you know lot more harsher words coms to surface of Iranian. com blogs(about all things) every day, why they are not been silenced than ? please let me know your opinion what happened.

you wrote :

Baha’is Have Never Silenced Others.
Baha’is Have Always Been Silenced By Certain Others.

In one of your past post, you showed Mr. Azal had exposed a letter that shows Bahai officials try(threatening) to silence some one who is talking or co-hosting publicly (on TV) with Muslims . is that  exchange letters are true or fake and also in 90's Dr. Jaun Cole was forced to shut down his internet free diolog chat room( talisman ) if you  show these climes are baseless than you may have a point that "Bahai's HAVE NEVER SILENCED OTHERS".please would you explain

you wrote : why don’t you just read all the comments and make a judgment as who is responsible for the “hate and nonsense” here?

Well, firstly , I really dont want any part of this ,since this is not my fight ,

but if you think my judgment is going to make any different,than I have to hear whole case in order do the "Adl" judgment which is impossible, I can not go back to read all from1996 (Mr. Azal resigning), that's why I suggest fair ground for both(public voice chat room),how ever with out looking farther than this thread, topic of this complaining is about JJ and Iranian.com being bias, I think instead of Bahai(seagul) should have JJ made first defend toward to this claim, and Bahais should have stayed out and not to instigate farther hate exchange.

you wrote :..Hojjatieh and Fadayan-e Islam in action.Do you think they are “true” Muslims ?

who knows ? only God knows , but as God said: Quran is the gauge, if any one go by Quran guideline than they should be nothing to fear and also no one is responsible for some one else actions .

you wrote :  Instead or raising questions with Sen, raise questions with those guys.

I thought best source of answering of Bahai question are Bahai themselves ,are you suggesting I should go get my answer from" Radiehs" ????:-o

You wrote :Instead of preaching here, why don’t you go lecture those in the Islamic Republic of Iran who commit.....

Dear Anvar,  why my preaching(if is any) should bother you ? why do you think my general advice of not slandering and cursing only applies to you ? and also, let say : some individual may see an accident or fight and carelessly pass and not try to put out the fire(maybe because that is part his-her belief) but we as Muslim have duty where ever we are present look for help other human being and (as much as we can) , therefore you asking me to go after tyrants in Iran, how do you know I'm not doing any thing for them as you said "religious minority" at present and this moment ?

thanks again for your reply and GOD bless

Expend your time and energy wisely…

*Sophia* - You and I don’t see eye-to-eye, but at times I have high expectations of you.  That’s why I get disappointed to find you so blindly and desperately try to search for non-existent opportunities to make silly insinuations.  Do you have the same ailment that causes ‘what’s his name today’ to see things where none exist?

You wrote: “Yes, Anvar, how were you aware of the number of flags placed on a post?” 

How is it that you didn’t see *abdAllah* making the accusatory and invalid statement that Mr. Azal’s posts get 50 flags and it is an organized effort (which I put his full quote in my earlier post), but saw my humorous comment that was based on his serious statement?  Judging from our emoticons, even *abdAllah* got the jest.  I expect better from you.

Now, my dear Mr. *abdAllah* - See the above paragraph to get the originator of my comment about flagging. 

“please tell me, if there is flagging(49) ,how do you know is not organized ? and how can you see 49 flag ?”

I saw the 49 flags the same way you saw the 50 flags and based on this simple logical syllogism, I know why Baha’is do not organize to flag posts:
Baha’is Have Never Silenced Others.
Baha’is Have Always Been Silenced By Certain Others.

“I offered fairground to changing somewhat hate and nonsense exchange between two of you”

Instead of trying to take advantage of the situation or wasting your efforts to mediate between people here, why don’t you just read all the comments and make a judgment as who is responsible for the “hate and nonsense” here?  Isn’t Justice (Adl) one of your obligations?  Come back and show how you implement justice.

“…any true Muslim dont create method of their own how  to exchange with their opponent ,we have a guideline…”

We’re all familiar with the methods of the Hojjatieh and Fadayan-e Islam in action.  You are familiar with them, aren’t you?  Do you think they are “true” Muslims?  Instead or raising questions with Sen, raise questions with those guys.

“…which means:’ exchange(about God)  in the best manner’, therefore , the way of personal attack and baseless slandering, cursing at one on another which only pleases hate desire(Nafs Ammareh) in eye of God is doomed”

Instead of preaching here, why don’t you go lecture those in the Islamic Republic of Iran who commit atrocities against the religious minorities?  Do all these nice words apply only to the Ummah?  Isn’t Nahi Az Monkar another one of your duties?  Why don’t you expend your time and energy to try to fix some of Muslims who are misguided?  Unless you don’t think they’re doing anything wrong and prefer, as you stated, to “help the situation” here.

I have access to holy books too, my friend, except that I can read and understand them for myself.

“…thanks for your invitation to Baha'i house of worship you must be in one of them now (I would guess) , just attach a post card and sent one picture”

If really wish I could send you a picture of a Baha’i House of Worship in Iran.  Unfortunately some people (guess who?) either stole and confiscated all Baha’i properties or destroyed their holy sites.  Yes, peaceful, indeed! 

Instead, I hope you enjoy these Baha’i pictures from other places in the world.
//images.google.com/images?hl=en&source=hp&q=...

Thanks for your efforts to bring about love and peace into this world.

Anvar

adbAllah said: "and also

adbAllah said: "and also wondering , please tell me, if there is flagging(49) ,how do you know is not organized ? and how can you see 49 flag ?are you puling my leg ? ;o"

Yes, Anvar, how were you aware of the number of flags placed on a post?

Also, pursuant to the information cited by sag-koochooloo in the post below, entitled "Famous Reputation Worldwide", notable mention should be made of several other posts made by the user "Mash_Ghasem", to whom the cited correspondence is addressed:

//groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.iranian/browse_thread/thread/21121ec1778cd173/fe7e2c0b34baa9c1 

Mash Ghasem: " You are an IRI spy madar ghahbe and now you are exposed :-) Keeping track of SCIers and trying to identify them! Hah. Bilakh dayous. What did change your mind jAkesh? Was is it kire Shykhe Khiabani to koseh nanat or his donkey's? ;-) Tell your jendeh sister I am keeping her panty. It smells too good ;-) Get your mother fucking IRI ass out of SCI. No one here is interested with lajan like you. You have no audience here. Get the fuck out of SCI sell out IRI agent dayous."  

Additional postings cited by Mr Azal in the linked thread above:

The evidence: 

//groups.google.com.au/group/talk.religion.bahai/browse_thread/t... 
Newsgroups: talk.religion.bahai, soc.culture.iranian, 
alt.religion.bahai 
From: mash_ghasem <ghyath_ab...@yahoo.com> 
Date: 5 May 2007 18:07:02 -0700 
Local: Sun, May 6 2007 11:07 am 
Subject: Re: To Baha'is harrassed by Nima Hazini aka Wahid Azal 

 xar bAbAieh jAkeshteh madar ghahbie azali. 
 ozgal hezbullahi.  hammal go find a donkey with shakh. 
 If you didn't find one ,get a shakh out of your jendeh nanah 
 and put it on a donkey ozgal. bacheh gerti zan jendeh. 

Newsgroups: talk.religion.bahai, soc.culture.iranian, 
alt.religion.bahai, alt.religion.islam, soc.culture.australian 
From: steveblomb...@yahoo.com 
Date: 5 May 2007 18:45:14 -0700 
Local: Sun, May 6 2007 11:45 am 
Subject: Re: To Baha'is harrassed by Nima Hazini aka Wahid Azal 

Desperate? 
Hezbullahi? 

This drugged donkey is just gone mad moaning like a pig. 
That just proves you donkey carry on your back a big load of shit all 
the time and you never let it down. 

Newsgroups: talk.religion.bahai, soc.culture.iranian, 
alt.religion.bahai 
From: steveblombe...@yahoo.com 
Date: 5 May 2007 18:52:57 -0700 
Local: Sun, May 6 2007 11:52 am 
Subject: Re: To Baha'is harrassed by Nima Hazini aka Wahid Azal 

For those who are not familiar with what this drugged donkey calls 
sweet Persian poems, I provide you with some translation of what this 
This horned donkey had to say about himself: 
He is lamenting over a period of his childhood which he remembers as being financially rewarding when his father used to bring men to 
their house and his mother would entertain them by all means. 
So, when he grew up he decided that he would follow the path of his 
great father. He got married and brought men into his home and got 
his  wife to entertain them by all means and he made sure that he himself  was not around to cause any inconvenience. 
He then tells us that his legacy continues and he is passing it on to 
his future generationa. 

Newsgroups: talk.religion.bahai, soc.culture.iranian, 
alt.religion.bahai, alt.religion.islam, soc.culture.australian 
From: mash_ghasem <ghyath_ab...@yahoo.com> 
Date: 5 May 2007 18:59:13 -0700 
Local: Sun, May 6 2007 11:59 am 
Subject: Re: To Baha'is harrassed by Nima Hazini aka Wahid Azal 

Desperate hezbullahi fits you and your wife Nima just fine ;-) check 
it again moron. 

 An doe shakh gAv gar khar dAshti 
 yek shekam bar adami nagozAshti 

Look at mirror aladang and report back if you see shakh! :_) BTW 

where is the princess? ;-) "

(end quote)

What does not seem to be apparent to certain people here, is (for example) the ease with which the claim/s that Mr Azal is, or ever has been, an agent/spy of the IRI could be dismissed as the utterly fraudulent and baseless allegations that they are. In case anyone is unaware of the fact, courts potentially have access to a wide range of documents and personal records, and Mr Azal has in fact several times invited the instigation of any sort of legal recourse interested parties may have previously alluded to. What then becomes problematic is the documentable evidence of other forms of potentially legally actionable behavior on the part of other individuals or organizations, particularly when there is a consideration of the sequence in which those actions were taken. Sag-Koochooloo, before posting again, I would undertake a more thorough and intelligent search, as you have also perhaps forgotten to take a closer look at the backgrounds of the other people (including the author "Deev) involved in the conversation you cited. 

Dear Mr. Hazini

What is the use of spending countless hours on the internet pretending to be several different people, having conversations with yourself while insulting Baha'i's, their beliefs and their sacred figures?

Hatred of this magnitude will effect you in a much more negative way than anyone or anything else.

Mr. Anvar ..

Thank you dear Mr. Anvar for reply

 That is right I offered fairground to changing somewhat hate and nonsense exchange between two of you, to "monazereh"(debate and conversation) and I add : that could possibly help to clear lots of nonsense (if there is any) ,therefore ,no, I'm not enjoying this angry exchange as you describe rather I found it interesting to follow and possibly help the situation,

and yes I am Muslim(alhamdullah)and any true Muslim dont create method of their own how  to exchange with their opponent ,we have a guideline based on word of Allah , in this case since exchange is about  belief, if we are qualify(based on knowledge ),than  we have word of advice from Quran how we do it  : و جادلهم بالتی هی احسن 125/16

which means:" exchange(about God)  in the best manner", therefore , the way of personal attack and baseless slandering, cursing at one on another which only pleases hate desire(Nafs Ammareh) in eye of God is doomed .

 we have to ask our-self, are we Abd of God or Abd of our own desire ? if we are AbdAllah(servant of GOD) then we should do what God ask us and listen to GOD not ourselves.

how ever I dont know exactly how  the same issue  it has been ruled in Bobbi or Bahai Faith !!

You wrote : "By the way, did you get all your insatiable questions about World War I & II prophecies answered?  Your interest and curiosity about the Baha’i Faith just warms my heart.  I hope you’d share your findings with us soon. "

As you know  , since Mr.Sen showed up and talk about my question ,I had hope that he would  answer it, how ever he left me with no answer and I didn't care much to chase him for the answer, I dont know ,he may simply missed my Question rather not answering it, now I see  you are also interested to know the answer to my question ,sure I would rise my question to him again hopefully we will have the answer this time ,because he is the one knows and research about this issue.unless you know the answer and you want to share it , in that case pleas do.

and thanks for your invitation to Baha'i house of worship you must be in one of them now (I would guess) , just attach a post card and sent one picture.

and also wondering , please tell me, if there is flagging(49) ,how do you know is not organized ? and how can you see 49 flag ?are you puling my leg ? ;o) 

thanks