HUMAN RIGHTS IN IRAN

You are a Baha'i from which Background ?

I think you are a Moslem Baha'i.
The moslem Baha'is are much stronger in their faith and more knowledgeable.

‫عزیزان

‫با جان و عزیز، چه لقبهائی نیست که بهم نمیچسبانید! ما هم یاد بگیریم... اصولاًً من عادت دارم از همون اول بسم الله شروع کنم.

Friends, Please note:

Alborz has very kindly through a discussion with Massoud on another blog,

//iranian.com/main/node/61145

has extended an invitation to NUR for a more proper dialogue; an opportunity for all the caring people here to hear in  Nur's own words, his story...

Although he is under no obligation to do so, it would certainly be helpful to cut through all the NOISE.

I for one look welcome this and look forward to a kinder forum for discussion

faryarm

اناهید جان؛

امیدوارم نوشته ی مرا حمل بر بی احترامی نفرموده باشید.  چرا که من درهر صورت
از هر سه نوشته چه در زمینه آموختن مطالب نو وچه در زمینه تصحیح برداشت نادرست خود بهره بردم.  من در پی آنم که کسی چه گفته و از جنبه مثبت
آن بهره بگیرم.  بی تعارف، از بزرگواری و حسن نیت شخص شما در فرونشاندن
شعله ها ی معضل پدید آمده بسیار سپاسگزارم.  هر جامعه ای نیازمند انسانهای
مدبر و با حسن نیتی است که با یافتن زمینه ها ی مشترک تنشهای بعضأ زیانبار
را با درایت به نفع سلامت جامعه و با کمترین زیان به پایانی مسالمت آمیز
بیاورند.

سپاس

To Manouchehr!

Dear Manouchehr,

Sorry if I misunderstood.

sincerely
Anahid

اناهید عزیز؛

اگر لطف کرده این لقب مغولی یادگار چنکیز را از جلو نامم بردارید سپاسگزار می شوم. واما بعد

انگار اینجا یک سوۀ تفاهم جدی پیش آمده.  بنده اصولأ از هیچکسی نپرسیدم چرا آثار بهاییت به عربی است و یا به   فارسی.اصولأ   این اصولأ سئوالی نیست که من بپرسم.  بنده به دنبال توجیهات تاریخی هم نیستم.  آقای کسروی را هم که صوفی را   مستعلی شاه و عاشفعلیشاه بخواند و شعر را مخل پیشرفت زبان پارسی بداند هم بجز نوشته های دقیقش در زمینه های تاریخی قبول ندارم.   اصولأ؛ باکمال احترام، ایشان حرف آخر را نزده. همه ی چیزی که من گفته ام در یک نظر این بوده که کسی در یک کامنت حرف نادرستی زده و گفته "زبان ایرانیان در زمان قاجار عربی بوده". آن چیزی که تا بازنگزی دوباره در ذهنم بود این بود که کامنت به انگلیسی بوده.  در دوباره نگری دیدم که چنین کامنتی به انگلیسی وجود نداشته شاید هم حذف شده و چیزی شبیه آن با این تفاوت که "زبان دینی" در آن زمان تازی بوده به فارسی دیدم. در توضیح این سخن بس که  منظور از زبان دینی زبان کتابت بوده و زبان کتابت هم مربوط به کتب مهم بوده. بنده به دنبال این هم نیستم که نویسنده چه اعتقادی داشته. حتی نامش راهم به خاطر نداشتم . این باور را هم نمی پذیرم که عقیده ای می تواند عصمت بیافریند.  وهمین مطلب را چند بار در باره اش نوشتم. دوبار به آقای اکس و یک بار به فریار. 

در هر صورت، عزیزم،  این نه سئوال من بوده و نه برایم اهمیت داشته و نه اهمیت دارد. و این چندمین بار است که همین داستان را از شما، از فریار، و ا اکس می شنوم.  می توانید به بنده نشان بدهید که کجا من چنین سئوالی کرده ام که چرا زبان بهاییت عربی است

در تمام این نوشته ها از چند روز گذشته اصلأ من هیچ سئوالی در رابطه با بهاییت مطرح نکرده ام.  همه ی حرفم در رابطه صحبتهای کس یا کسانی بوده که به نظر من بطور غیر اخلاقی شخصیت فردی کسی را زیر سئوال برده اند؛ نه نظراتش را.  برای بنده اهمیتی هم ندارد اینان بهایی بوده اند یاخیر.

اعتقاد دینی یا غیر دینی کسی را منزه از خطا نمی کند.

با سپاس

Dear Manoucher Avaznia!

منوچهر خان ,من میدونم این پاسخ مقداری طولانی هست ولی خیلی ها این سوال را کردند که چرا بخشی از اثار بهایی به عربی هست.با سپاس

"...اثاری که از بنیان گذاران دیانت بهایی صادر شده هم فارسی است (حتی برخی نزدیک به فارسی سره) هم عربی وهم فارسی همراه با جملات و استعارات عربی که به اعتقاد بهاییان هر یک از زیبایی کلام و معنی هر دو بهره مند است.
از صدها اثر بهایی به زبان فارسی که بگذریم باید بدانیم در زمانی که این دیانت ظهور نمود یعنی اواسط قرن نوزدهم اشنایی قشر کتاب خوان و با سواد ایران با زبان عربی بیش از ان بود که امروز است.فارسی و عربی قرن ها چنان در هم جوش خورده بود که در خواندن یک متن کسی توجه نمی کرد کجای جمله زبان عوض شد و از فارسی به عربی و یا برعکس از عربی به فارسی گراییده است.بسیاری از اثار ادبی مشهور ایران از جمله شا هکار سعدی گلستان زیباییش در بکار بردن استادانه همین سبک است:"خطیبی کریه الصوت خود را خوش اواز پنداشتی و فریاد بیهده برداشتی گفتی نغیب غراب البین در پرده الحان اوست یا ایت ان انکرا الاصوات در شان او."و یادر جای دیگر می فرماید:"عالم ناپرهیزگار کوریست مشعله دار. یهدی به و هو لا یهتدی. "و از حافظ یاد کنیم:
الا یاایها الساقی ادر کاسا و ناولها
که عشق اسان نمود اول ولی افتاد مشکلها
نه تنها زبان ادبی چنین بود بلکه زبان دینی ایران فقط عربی بود و اگر مطلبی دینی به فارسی نگاشته میشد از سندیت و ارزش می افتاد. در نخستین سا لیان این نهضت بنیان گذاران دیانت بهایی به عراق که ان روزها جزیی از ترکیه عثمانی بود تبعید شدند و طبعا بسیاری از مخاطبان دیانت بهایی در ایران و عراق این دو زبان یعنی فارسی و عربی را به طور یکسان میدانستند...بنابراین عجبی نیست که برای انتقال رهنمودها و تعالیم این دیانت به ان گروه زبان مانوس دینی ایشان یعنی عربی به کار رفته باشد.خاصه که زبان عربی زبانی بسیار وسیع هست و توانایی ادای انواع مفاهیم از جمله در زمینه های دینی و عرفانی را دارد.
اما انچه در این دیانت انقلابی نو بشمار می اید انست که بنیان گذارانش بانگارش اثاری دینی به زبان فارسی و بیان اندیشه های خود به این زبان دین را از انحصار ملایان و عربی دانان در اوردند و برای توده مردم قابل فهم ساختند.نه تنها به فارسی اثاری اوردند بلکه به ترجمه اثار عربی خود به فارسی پرداختند مانند کتاب بیان فارسی از قلم باب و برخی اثار که بهالله شارع دیانت بهایی ان را به فارسی نیز ترجمه نموده است.
در یک مطالعه تطبیقی در اثار بهایی چه عربی چه فارسی می بینیم مهم نبوده که این اثار به چه زبانی گفته و نوشته شودبلکه هدف ان بوده که پیام جدید هر چه زودتر و راحتر به وسیله زبانی اشناتر به اگاهی همه مردم برسد.صدور بسیاری الواح از ساحت بهالله و عبدالبها به زبانی نزدیک به فارسی سره و یا واژه های اندک عربی که گیرنده های ان زرتشتیان و پارسیان بوده اند نشان این مدعا است.زبان در اثار بهایی چنین نقشی دارد نه ان که بخواهد نشان گرایش به سمت یا جهتی یا انطور که کسروی پنداشته وحی تصنعی و یا طرفداری از یک زبان یا زبان دیگر باشد.عبدالبها در این مورد مینویسد:
"فارسی و عربی و ترکی هر سه لسان عاشقان جمال جانان است.عشق را خود صد زبان دیگر است.مقصد معانی است نه الفاظ ,حقیقت است نه مجاز,صهبای(=شراب)حقایق و معانی در هر کاس(=جام)گوارا,خواه جام زرین باشد خواه کاسه گلین.ولی جام بلور و مرصع لطیف تر است."
این ساده لوحانه است که پنداریم چون زبان نوشته ای جز زبان مادری ماست بنابراین محتوای متن و پیامش نیز برای ما بیگانه و از ما جداست.ایا بهتر نیست که بپذیریم الفاظ وکلمات نیست که به معنی و مفهوم اثار اهمیت می دهد بلکه پیام و مرام مندرج در ان باید مورد توجه قرار گیرد.در دیانت بهایی این پیام گاه در لباس زبان عربی و بیشتر در جامه زبان فارسی بیان شده,هر دو از یک خامه و از یک سرچشمه صادر گردید هر دو معرف یک فرهنگ دینی است."

از کتاب کسروی و بهاییگری او به قلم بهمن نیک اندیش ص ١٠٧

_________________________________
عربی زبان عقلانيت ايرانی

زبان فارسی، اگرچه به همت شاعران و عارفان و تا اندازه‌ای تاريخ‌نويسان، مايه ادبی خويش را نگاه داشت و پروراند، از توانايی دستگاه درونی خود برای بيان مفهوم‌ها و انگاره‌های علمی بهره نگرفت و بر اين بنياد، در قلمرو علم و فلسفه، زبانی ناکارامد، کند و کژتاب شد.

شناخت و انديشه غيرادبی و غيرعرفانی، بيشتر، بر بستر زبان عربی شکل گرفت و زبان فارسی، زبان شور و حال ماند. در تاريخ بيش از هزار سال پيش، عقلانيت ايرانی، از اين رو، بيشتر عقلانيتی عربی است تا فارسی
//www.bbc.co.uk/persian/arts/story/2006/03/06...

______________________________

:Other sites
https://www.bahai-sites.org/
//www.bahaiview.org/
//www.iranpresswatch.org/

Dear Friends,Faryar & Manuchehr....

I believe both of you have good intentions,no conspiracy,no paranoia & this discussion has endedup here mostly for no reason but a misunderstanding.As a friend of both of you,I humbly beg you not to forget that you can continue your discussion as friends & there is no need for labeling each other,since both of you are sincere in expressing your thoughts . 

Sepaas

Jasaarate mano mibakhshid!

Del be een navaa bedahid : 

 //www.youtube.com/watch?v=43Rni7Gxwd0

Ebi aka Haaji

Dear Faryar;

Thank you for the lengthy response:

1.  If someone who has written a long article critcizing a historic book about Baha'i faith is not an scholar, then show me one please?  I genuinely do not believe such a person is unaware of the subject of what he writes.

2.   Some vassaya are strong.  If it is a vasseyat, are you not obliged to follow it?

3.   If it wasn't offending why people found it offending?

4.   You may have as much suspecion about my motives as you can, however what I asked was about you as a person and not about Baha'i as a belief.  Sectarianism is a belief that says my way of thought is correct and nothing else.  In other words , it is tribalism based upon belief and tries to eliminate others by any means. 

5.   I will ask poets if they like to have fun with the posting of their  personal friends' letters to prove that they are insame when I see them.

6.    Regarding to Persia; where on the map you will point to be Persia to show someone who has always seen Iran and always has heard Iran?  Is there anywhere today to be called Persia on the map?  Why should we follow the maps and the vocabulary that has been invented hundreds of years ago?

7.    Let's do not forget that most of the people who attacked Nur's personality were not Baha'is to begin with.  Everone could have contrasted him with strong logic, but they opted the easy way of defamation.   

In the end, please keep your suspicion about my motivations sharp, but please prove it with solid logic and make it public right on this site. I will assure you that I will object to any attack on people's personality from any source.

8.     Why do you call those who have suspicions about you parnoid and don't see it about yourself?  You are not paranoid and they are?

9.     Let's claim something that is not applicable to ourselves.

Regards 

Souri Jaan;

I checked a few blogs and found the one where I have said "Nur seldom attacks people on personal bases" without reponse.  If I am correct in this regard, I would like to say I have not said Nur has never done that, however, he has not done it as frequent as his opponents have done.  Don't read "his opponents" equal Baha'is.  I do not believe that anyone on this site is "always" right.  Just go back to the comments and find out how many people have uttered very personal insults against Nur.  Most of them have no adherence to Baha'ism.  I have repeated this many times today: my concern is attacking people's personality to prove the righteousness of an opinion. This is wrong.

The conspiracy behind my erasure of the 10 minute Masterpiece :)

I am not sure where you are coming from with this line of questioning; still I will answer you regardless:

A:  "were you, as a scholar in the field of Baha'i Faith, aware of such a decree and you disregarded it just to vent out your anger upon your opponent? If yes, where is your real faith?  Do you have more faith in yourself or your religion?  If no, what kind of scholar are you?  Are you unaware of the basic rules of intraction in his own religion?

B:  since the posting of the cartoon many people found it offensive and expressed their
dissatisfaction with it and you disregarded all those pleas until someone brought you an advice from Baha'olla.

Manocher Khan
Firstly, I am no Bahai Scholar, never claimed to be.
Secondly, Does the  word "vassiat" mean "decree" to you?

 Thirdly, as I explained, it was an attempt at humour; some got it some did not..
You say "vent" I say tease ! where is your sense of humour?

I am not however sure how a humorous portrayal of someone who has been blasting these pages with accusations and conspiracy theories about the British, can be misconstrued as "offensive" or "hurtful".

I did not have to remove it, but I did so in deference; to Bahais as well as NON. in an attempt to change the combative climate.
Besides the "words" had a sudden profound effect;
We all need to be reminded from time to time...
It was a humbling experience to say the least, and i did not hesitate. Does it bother you, that I managed to overcome my pride and erase my 10 minute "Dai Jaan" "masterpiece" ? :)

Dont poets have any sense of fun?

However, what still bothers me is the purity of your motive in your
questions..
still lets go on...
 You asked,
"Do you have respect for non-Bahai's who mentioned the same thing as your Baha'i friend did?  Are you so immersed in your sectarian beleifs that you hear only what your religion tells you?  Honestly, please clearly tell me a person with this tendencies can ever be credible?

You should know better than to question my respect for anyone...my tone on these pages since the inception of iranian.com is proof enough..

Kindly double check the meanng of "sectarian " in the dictionary before its application to my beliefs as a Bahai.
What part of Bahai belief do you find as sectarian?

and with that said, Yes, relgion should be a positive influence on one's behaviour, without such infuence its useless; and in this case, Baha'u'llah's "vassiat" and its unequivical stance was a sober reminder. I wish i was more "immersed" in His "words"; I would be far wiser and perhaps a Scholar; Then I could answer you, Guilty as charged.......with such a terrible spell on me, i guess I can not be credible.

3. You said: "Can you please do me a favor and stop using word "Persia" instead of "Iran"?"
 I think you are refering to my use of the word Persian, as it is referred  to in the English Language. Please remind me of where i used Persia instead of Iran..

I may have used it in an historical context, but im pretty sure Iran is my favourite word :)

However For the long answer to this you should refer to Professor Yarshater's logical explanation, of why Persian is more correct as refrence to our native language when using english.

You also said;

"We never called ourselves Persians and never called our land Persia." ...No but Europeans did.

But You are correct,In our own native laguage we never used it either, but english speaking peoples for hundreds of years only knew the Country as Persia and the language and the culture as Persian, not Iran , Iranian or Farsi. Since the term did not catch on in the west until the 50s and the 60s.

However, after the revolution with settlement of hundreds pf thousands of Iranians in th west, many of whom did not speak english; the term Persian was not a familiar one; instead, when asked what language they spoke, they would answer Farsi; 

jsut as a non english speaking mexican would say espanol, The french, Francais or the German , Deutsch.

I believe it was Hitler's foreign minister in the 1930's who persuaded the Persian Ambassdor to ask Reza Shah to change our counrty's historical and Interntaionally known  name from Persia to Iran, since it identified more with the Nazi's sick pride in their racist  interpretation of Aryan race supremacy.

"If some illieterate Europeans followed the footsteps of their Greco-Roman forefathers, we don't need to identify ourselves in their terms."

Perhaps, then The the Germans should insist on Deutsch and Deutschland instead of German and Germany,
The Russians on Russia and Russki, and so on and on.

"hala bia va dorostesh kon..."

I hope you find my answers acceptable, although I have my doubts about your true motives behind them.

withh respect,

Faryarm

Souri Jaan;

If it not personal and offending why to remove it?

I was the first one to object to that posting as peronal and ofending.  So, as I see somehow I have made a serious problem from a humor.  And if I were wrong, why Faryar did not let me and others know that it was humor? Of course, cartoon in the west is known as humorous way of ecpression.

See the response that Faryar wrote to you about Anahid's request again? 

How come Anahid found the picture offending as well as many others and Faryar was just joking?  Humor at what price?  This was not the only thing he wrote about Nur as a person.  He even posted a letter from Nur's previous friend to debase him.  And, then everyone started to shower him with the titles that you know.

The reason for respecting's Anahid's request (and not others) is right on the frame where Nur's cartoon was posted.  What you see there is Anahid's request and quatation.  I believe other Baha'i friends found Faryar's posting ofending too.

Regarding to your questions to me, I will go there and see it again.

Dear Manouchehr

Faryar did not respond to your questions. But I will:

If you read Faryar's text above carefully, you will get the answer to your questions. First of al, Faryar said : that was an attempt at humor. That's also how me and some other friends have interpreted that joke.You said :

"Simply by removing that after receiving religious decree, you show that
you, indeed, meant to personally hurt Nur by the cartoon."

How could you be so sure of Faryar's real intention? A joke, of this type can never HURT a guy like NUR. That is something I can assure you of, the same way you are sure of Faryar's real intention. Faryar, already said that his intention was an attempt at humor, why not to believe him?  Why do you insist on your original opinion? I believe you got already the answer to your question A.

Regarding your question B: Again, why do you think that Faryar did remove the picture only because of his Bahai friend's request? How do you know that? The fact that the action of removal of that picture, happened right after that request, does not imply what you just said.

As you could read it, the same statement has been posted twice by the same person. Did you pay attention to the first post of the same person, saying the same thing, long before the last one? Other Bahai friends also, had formulate the same request, dear Manouchehr. So your deduction here in the B question is again wrong.

I believe (just believe) that Faryar's intention was to not leave that picture there permanently, only he removed it at the best time to mark a point....and that point was this one: 

I hope His Words will have a wider profound effect on Bahai and Non
Bahai alike, and bring the blossoms of spring to Iranian.com.

Your question C, is not really a question. It is just a request. That one, I can't answer for Faryar. Only he, can answer you.

BTW, me too have asked you a question in Nur blog (sent you the email too) .........never got your answer on that question. 

x

I went back to that blog again and hastily checked the comments section.  I couldn't find any comment in English to convey the meaning of what I wrote about Arabic Language under the Qajars.  Perhaps, I am mistaken and this comment of AK I did not read carefully.  Any way, truth is true.  "I cannot verify if every single religious book at the time of Qajar was written exclusively in Arbic because I simply don't know that". 

regards

Faryam Aziz;

Thank you for posting that Farsi article about the reasons of Baha'ollah's writings in Arabic, but:

1.  I did not raise that question to begin with.  I only referred to a blog that someone (even I do not remember the name) had posted and someone had written a response to it and had claimed that "language of Iranians at the time of Qajar was Arabic".  I had seen this in English and not Farsi.  Now, it has appeared that meaning implied to the language of religion.  I had not seen any quatation of Farsi text either.  If (look at the big fat "if") there has been such a statement as I quated, it was absurd.  I don't care who has said it.  Let me make it clear that religious convictions do not exhonarate a wrong statement with any intention it has been said.  Mistake has to be corrected.  If I am wrong, I do not insist on my mistake and I do appologize now.

2.  I see that you have removed the offensive picture from your blog.  Simply by removing that after receiving religious decree, you show that you, indeed, meant to personally hurt Nur by the cartoon.  Still, my question to you is that:

A:  were you, as a scholar in the field of Baha'i Faith, aware of such a decree and you disregarded it just to vent out your anger upon your opponent? If yes, where is your real faith?  Do you have more faith in yourself or in your religion?  If no, what kind of scholar are you?  Are you unaware of the basic rules of intraction in your own religion?

B:  since the posting of the cartoon many people found it offensive and expressed their dissatisfaction with it and you disregarded all those pleas until someone brought you an advice from Baha'olla.  Do you have respect for non-Bahai's who mentioned the same thing as your Baha'i friend did?  Are you so immersed in your sectarian beleifs that you hear only what your religion or religious colleagues tell you?  Honestly, please clearly tell me a person with this tendencies can ever be credible?

3.  Can you please do me a favor and stop using word "Persia" instead of "Iran"?  We never called ourselves Persians and never called our land Persia.  If some illieterate Europeans followed the footsteps of their Greco-Roman forefathers, we don't need to identify ourselves in their terms.

Please regard these words as an objection of someone who feels a little responsible towards what he reads.  Any word you want to use about me feel free and use it.  I am a real person and do not need to hide behind titles and masks. 

Thanks

AdibM Aziz;

I dearly appreciate your input into this.  What you said corrected my understanding.  As I heard, Baha'ollah had no picture in existence and since Faryam in his criticizm of Mr. Miller's work had shed a shadow of doubt on many things, I thought perhaps the picture in that book was unreal.  

sepass

Manouchehr jaan

Regarding this comment:

>When it comes to pictures, as far as I have heard from some Baha'i friends, Baha'ollah doesn't have a picture to speak of.

I wanted to get clarification from you on this point: are you under the impression that there is no existing photograph of Baha'u'llah? I might have misinterpreted your statement, and if I have done so then I apologize. If not, however, I would like to kindly inform you that there is indeed a photograph of Baha'u'llah (passport photo while he was on exile), the original of which is kept in the International Archives Building at Haifa, Israel (black-and-white, of course). His picture has spread to the Internet as well, probably due to its usage in William Miller's book which people have inevitably scanned. It's even on Wikipedia, but it is located at the very bottom of the article out of respect for Baha'is who regard their prophet-founder very highly and love him a great deal.

Regards,
Adib 

thanks Faryarm for removing the picture

I  AM GLAD YOU DID REMOVE THAT UGLY PICTURE FROM YOUR BLOG .I ACTUALLY HAD MIXED EMOTIONS ABOUT THIS BLOG

I UNDERSTAND YOUR FEELINGS ABOUT ALL THE ATROCITIES THIS FELLOW HAS DONE TO OUR BELOVED ONE  I HAVE MY SHARE TOO .  LETS LEAVE THIS ISSUE IN THE HANDS OF DIVINE JUSTICE AND PRAY FOR THIS POOR PERSON  TO BE ABLE TO BEAR THE OUTCOME OF HIS BLASPHEMIES.

Souri Jaan,

I can not describe to you the feeling, when I was gently reminded by Anahid, with Baha'u'llah's emphatic words.

How could I resist?

I hope His Words will have a wider profound effect on Bahai and Non Bahai alike, and bring the blossoms of spring to Iranian.com.

( It snowed here today !) 

faryarm 

I have something important to say.

The person in question who started all this said on his blog iranian.com sourcwwatched, that sourcewatch says that iranian.com has Asia Society (a NYC art institute for the well-heeled) as its ADVISOR (i.e. said he, implicitly the Rockefeller Foundation, their funder).  A cursory reading of the link HE provided shows that they said ADVERTISER. Jahanshah told him this CLEARLY twice.

Shortly thereafter when I harped on this he wrote me the following:

quote

Asia Society is not in the advertising business, genius! If you people have been brainwashed into stupidity over a lifetime, don't assume others are as gullible as you. Whatever moosh mordegi you and JJ play at, I know how the foundation funding system works. The Asia Society only advertises on sites and places it is actively funding or has some kind of funding relationship to. Geddit

endquote

This is a highly intelligent, well-educated man, articulate, capable of doing research..who COULDN'T READ a simple word and who then to defend himself says the above hallucinatorily prepostrous thing. He is paranoid. Parnoiacs construct elaborate realities based on false premises. You oughtta know, half of you are too and the other half have to live with the rest of you, paranoia being the national Iranian disease (magnified by three thousand in Nur's case, so if you wanna take a good look at the thing that's holding you back the most as a community and a people, and the thing that caused the persecution of the Bahai and all the rest of the horror, look at him, he's your mirror..vox populis)

Now, being as paranoid as he is, his posts (yes, yours, Nur) are not deemworthy of ANY OTHER RESPONSE than Nur, you're paranoid, here's how I know, OR silence. ANY attempt at refuting any argument he poses, any LINK he provides, any SUPPORTER who supports him, only adds more fuel to this TOXIC engine. So please don't do that. By all means, converse with each other and exchange information about the Bahai, engage LEGITMATE critiques (which means ones that neither support nor reference Nur),  but DON'T engage him in rational argument. It onlly reinforces his mistaken notion that he's rational. And that is...dangerous...

As for thaa picture of this..Juan Cole...on Nur's new blog,, that sweet guy who looks like a hushpuppy, I don't care if Nur's quoting Gandhi, and I don't think ANYTHING he posts should be read, no matter HOW reliable it looks, because then you may want to respond to it.. And then you will be responding to...Nur..

and he shouldn't be given ANY positive reinforcement that should legitimitize his c"ontributions' here. It's not so much to protect the Bahai, because obviouslly, if anything, this three-ring circus has HELPED them...it's to protect HIM (yes you Nur). He has to face the fact that he has a serious illness and he needs help..and that is ALL he needs to know right now.

Oh yes....and..don't forget..national disease..

Faryarm

I don't like the title, but if you want to use it go ahead.

Manoucher Khan,

Manoucher Khan,

Can I refer you to the following on this subject of the use of Arabic in Babi and Bahai Writings.

//www.negah32.info/index.php?option=com_conte...

faryarm 

Faryam

You are too good, too great!! I wouldn't do what you just did ( removing that photo) It is a sign of the goodness and forgiveness you the Bahais have in your heart. Although I don't like to see the Bahai's pascifism make them look passive, but forgiveness is something that I wish we all could learn from you.

Trully yours,

Souri

اکس گرامی؛

من مطمئنم که میرزا ابوالقاسم امام جمعه به فارسی خطبه می خواند و سیدجمال
اصفهانی هم به فارسی وعظ میکرد. پس چگونه است که قائم مقام رسالات فارسی
می نویسد قرةالعن شعر شیوای فارسی می سراید.  روضةالصفای ناصری به . 
فارسی است.  فتوای میرزای شیرازی هم فارسی است. متون اولیه منابع دینی
البته از ابتدای اسلام عربی بوده 

نه تنها زبان ادبی چنین بود

این تکه را خواهش می کنم توضیح بدهید.

To Faryarm!

شما را به ادب وصیت مینمایم واوست در در مقام اول سید اخلاق طوبی از برای نفسی که بنور ادب منور...دارای ادب دارای مقام بزرگ است.- حضرت بها الله

//reference.bahai.org/fa/t/c/PA1/pa1-91.html#...

فریار عزیز

با اینکه من شاهد بلاگ ها و کارتون های شنیع اقای حزینی بودم. به عقیده حقیراین تصویر را پاک کن.اگر ایشون میکنند دلیلی نیست که ما هم این کار را بکنیم.لقمان راگفتند ادب از که آموختی، گفت از بی ادبان .

با تشکر

Alborz Jaan;

I appreciate that.  I won't be shy to ask you questions.

Regards

We are on the same page Manuchehr Jaan...

... no one should be humiliated or be subjected to disparaging remarks in any context for expressing themselves.

By "reasonable" questeions, what I mean is that "statements" are not mascarading as "questions".  For example, a question such as "how often do you beat your wife?" is not a reasonable question!

I hope that this point is now clear and I want to assure you that when and if you or NUR poses the points of contention, then "reasonable" responses will be provided.  The acceptance is neither required or a pre-condition.

Yours truely,

Alborz

To manuchehr khan-The source of what I said.

نه تنها زبان ادبی چنین بود بلکه زبان دینی ایران فقط عربی بود و اگر مطلبی دینی به فارسی نگاشته میشد از سندیت و ارزش می افتاد.
از کتاب کسروی و بهاییگری او به قلم بهمن نیک اندیش ص ١٠٨

تعزیه ها و مطالبی که به ان مذهب عامیانه میگویند اغلب به فارسی بوده در اینجا منظور ما کتابهای جدی و اساسی دینی است که اغلب به عربی نگاشته میشد.
از کتاب کسروی و بهاییگری او به قلم بهمن نیک اندیش ص ١١٤

x

نه.  آن چیزی که من حرفش را زدم در پاسخ به یک بلاگ بود که پرسیده بوذ چرا پیامبر ایرانی به تازی می نویسد.

البته، آن نوشته انگلیسی بود.  پوشیده نیست که زبان فارسی دومین زبانی است که بالاترین منابع معارف اسلامی را دارد.  البته،در اینجا من نمی دانم منظور از زبان دینی چیست؟   

Dear Tahirih

I have not read all of Hazini's hurtful posts or Faryarm's responses to him. However I am basically against humiliating people for their ideas and religious convictions, period! I am also one of the signatories of the open letter "We are ashamed":

//iranian.com/main/2009/feb/we-are-ashamed

Have a wonderful day,

Azadeh