Is this saying true today? and authentic in its origin?
دیدگاه امام اول شیعیان در نهج البلاغه:
خطبه 369
وقال عليه السلام : يَأْتِي عَلَى النَّاسِ زَمَانٌ لاَ يَبْقى فِيهِمْ مِن الْقُرآنِ إِلاَّ رَسْمُهُ، وَمِنَالاِِْسْلاَمِ إِلاَّ اسْمُهُ، مَسَاجِدُهُمْ يَوْمَئِذٍ عَامِرَةٌ مِنَ البُنَى، خَرَابٌ مِنَ الْهُدَى، سُكَّانُهَا وَعُمَّارُهَا شَرُّ أَهْلِ الاََْرْضِ، مِنْهُمْ تَخْرُجُ الْفِتْنَةُ، وَإِلَيْهِمْ تَأوِي الْخَطِيئَةُ، يَرُدُّونَ مَنْ شَذَّ عَنْهَا فِيهَا، وَيَسُوقوُنَ مَن تأَخَّرَ عَنْهَا إِلَيْهَا، يَقُولُ اللهُ تعالى: فَبِي حَلَفْتُ لاَََبْعَثَنَّ عَلَى أُولئِكَ فِتْنَةً أَتْرُك الْحَلِيمَ فِيهَا حَيْرَانَ، وَقَدْ فَعَلَ، وَنَحْنُ نَسْتَقِيلُ اللهَ عَثْرَةَ الْغَفْلَةِ.
بر مردم روزگارى خواهد آمد كه در بين آنان از قرآن جز رسمش ،واز اسلام جز نامش باقى نماند. مساجدشان از جهتبنا و ساختمان آباد اما از جهت هدايت خراب، ساكنان و آباد كنندگان آن بدترين مردم روى زمينند، فتنه و فساد از آنان بر مىخيزد و خطاها در آنها لانه ميكند. آن كس كه از فتنهها كنارهگيرىكرده او را به آن باز مىگردانند و هر كسى كه از آن دنبال مانده، به سوى آن سوقشمىدهند خداوند سبحان مىفرمايد: به ذاتم سوگند! بر آنان فتنهاى برانگيزم كه عاقل و بردبار در آن حيران ماند. و هم اكنون اين كار انجام شده.و ما از خداوند خواستاريم كه از لغزشهاى غفلتهاىما در گذرد.
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English translation of the highlighted section of the passage
by Zulfiqar110 on Thu May 28, 2009 11:57 PM PDT"Do not seek to embrace the religion of those who are not Shi'ites [i.e. Sunnis]; do not love their religion, for they are traitors who have betrayed God and the Prophet, and who have betrayed their Repositories. Do you know how they betrayed the Repositories? God's Book was given to them, and they falsified and changed it; their true leaders were shown to them [i.e. 'Ali and the Imams], but they turned away from them! "
This hadith comes from the text of Thiqat al-Islam Muhammad Kulayni al-Razi's Rawda al-Kafi, vol. 1, Tehran 1389/1969, ed. H. Rasuli Mahallati, p. 181. Kitab al-Kafi constitutes the first of the four official canonical books of Shi'ite hadith. There are more such statements by the Imams regarding the interpolated and tampered version of the current Uthmani vulgate throughout the other books of Kulayni's compilation. I am happy to post more of them here if Reza still believes this whole issue is made up. Perhaps he should take the question to a learned Shi'i 'alim and distill his opinion on the question since the issue of the tahrif al-quran has been around as long as there has been Shi'ism, and this issue has been endlessly debated for centuries. That the present Shi'ite establishment finds such an issue politically inexpedient to discuss more widely is largely beside the point because the question of the tampered Qur'an also goes to the heart of Shi'ite eschatology and messianic speculations, since one of the alloted tasks of the Twelfth Imam Mahdi, according to such hadiths by the Imams, is precisely to reveal to the true Qur'an in its entirety once he appears.
To be fair, however, Behbudi does consider such akhbar to be weak (dha'if) while both Majlisis consider them, and specifically this one, to be sound (sahih).
Hadith from Imam Musa al-Kazim (Arabic text)
by Zulfiqar110 on Thu May 28, 2009 11:32 PM PDTالكافي حَدِيثُ أَبِي الْحَسَنِ مُوسَى ( عليه السلام ) عِدَّةٌ مِنْ أَصْحَابِنَا عَنْ سَهْلِ بْنِ زِيَادٍ عَنْ إِسْمَاعِيلَ بْنِ مِهْرَانَ عَنْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ مَنْصُورٍ الْخُزَاعِيِّ عَنْ عَلِيِّ بْنِ سُوَيْدٍ وَ مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ يَحْيَى عَنْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ الْحُسَيْنِ عَنْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ إِسْمَاعِيلَ بْنِ بَزِيعٍ عَنْ عَمِّهِ حَمْزَةَ بْنِ بَزِيعٍ عَنْ عَلِيِّ بْنِ سُوَيْدٍ وَ الْحَسَنُ بْنُ مُحَمَّدٍ عَنْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ أَحْمَدَ النَّهْدِيِّ عَنْ إِسْمَاعِيلَ بْنِ مِهْرَانَ عَنْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ مَنْصُورٍ عَنْ عَلِيِّ بْنِ سُوَيْدٍ قَالَ كَتَبْتُ إِلَى أَبِي الْحَسَنِ مُوسَى ( عليه السلام ) وَ هُوَ فِي الْحَبْسِ كِتَاباً أَسْأَلُهُ عَنْ حَالِهِ وَ عَنْ مَسَائِلَ كَثِيرَةٍ فَاحْتَبَسَ الْجَوَابُ عَلَيَّ أَشْهُراً ثُمَّ أَجَابَنِي بِجَوَابٍ هَذِهِ نُسْخَتُهُ بِسْمِ اللَّهِ الرَّحْمَنِ الرَّحِيمِ الْحَمْدُ لِلَّهِ الْعَلِيِّ الْعَظِيمِ الَّذِي بِعَظَمَتِهِ وَ نُورِهِ أَبْصَرَ قُلُوبَ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ وَ بِعَظَمَتِهِ وَ نُورِهِ عَادَاهُ الْجَاهِلُونَ وَ بِعَظَمَتِهِ وَ نُورِهِ ابْتَغَى مَنْ فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَ مَنْ فِي الْأَرْضِ إِلَيْهِ الْوَسِيلَةَ بِالْأَعْمَالِ الْمُخْتَلِفَةِ وَ الْأَدْيَانِ الْمُتَضَادَّةِ فَمُصِيبٌ وَ مُخْطِئٌ وَ ضَالٌّ وَ مُهْتَدٍ وَ سَمِيعٌ وَ أَصَمُّ وَ بَصِيرٌ وَ أَعْمَى حَيْرَانُ فَالْحَمْدُ لِلَّهِ الَّذِي عَرَفَ وَ وَصَفَ دِينَهُ مُحَمَّدٌ ( صلى الله عليه وآله ) أَمَّا بَعْدُ فَإِنَّكَ امْرُؤٌ أَنْزَلَكَ اللَّهُ مِنْ آلِ مُحَمَّدٍ بِمَنْزِلَةٍ خَاصَّةٍ وَ حَفِظَ مَوَدَّةَ مَا اسْتَرْعَاكَ مِنْ دِينِهِ وَ مَا أَلْهَمَكَ مِنْ رُشْدِكَ وَ بَصَّرَكَ مِنْ أَمْرِ دِينِكَ بِتَفْضِيلِكَ إِيَّاهُمْ وَ بِرَدِّكَ الْأُمُورَ إِلَيْهِمْ كَتَبْتَ تَسْأَلُنِي عَنْ أُمُورٍ كُنْتُ مِنْهَا فِي تَقِيَّةٍ وَ مِنْ كِتْمَانِهَا فِي سَعَةٍ فَلَمَّا انْقَضَى سُلْطَانُ الْجَبَابِرَةِ وَ جَاءَ سُلْطَانُ ذِي السُّلْطَانِ الْعَظِيمِ بِفِرَاقِ الدُّنْيَا الْمَذْمُومَةِ إِلَى أَهْلِهَا الْعُتَاةِ عَلَى خَالِقِهِمْ رَأَيْتُ أَنْ أُفَسِّرَ لَكَ مَا سَأَلْتَنِي عَنْهُ مَخَافَةَ أَنْ يَدْخُلَ الْحَيْرَةُ عَلَى ضُعَفَاءِ شِيعَتِنَا مِنْ قِبَلِ جَهَالَتِهِمْ فَاتَّقِ اللَّهَ عَزَّ ذِكْرُهُ وَ خُصَّ لِذَلِكَ الْأَمْرِ أَهْلَهُ وَ احْذَرْ أَنْ تَكُونَ سَبَبَ بَلِيَّةٍ عَلَى الْأَوْصِيَاءِ أَوْ حَارِشاً عَلَيْهِمْ بِإِفْشَاءِ مَا اسْتَوْدَعْتُكَ وَ إِظْهَارِ مَا اسْتَكْتَمْتُكَ وَ لَنْ تَفْعَلَ إِنْ شَاءَ اللَّهُ إِنَّ أَوَّلَ مَا أُنْهِي إِلَيْكَ أَنِّي أَنْعَى إِلَيْكَ نَفْسِي فِي لَيَالِيَّ هَذِهِ غَيْرَ جَازِعٍ وَ لَا نَادِمٍ وَ لَا شَاكٍّ فِيمَا هُوَ كَائِنٌ مِمَّا قَدْ قَضَى اللَّهُ عَزَّ وَ جَلَّ وَ حَتَمَ فَاسْتَمْسِكْ بِعُرْوَةِ الدِّينِ آلِ مُحَمَّدٍ وَ الْعُرْوَةِ الْوُثْقَى الْوَصِيِّ بَعْدَ الْوَصِيِّ وَ الْمُسَالَمَةِ لَهُمْ وَ الرِّضَا بِمَا قَالُوا وَ لَا تَلْتَمِسْ دِينَ مَنْ لَيْسَ مِنْ شِيعَتِكَ وَ لَا تُحِبَّنَّ دِينَهُمْ فَإِنَّهُمُ الْخَائِنُونَ الَّذِينَ خَانُوا اللَّهَ وَ رَسُولَهُ وَ خَانُوا أَمَانَاتِهِمْ وَ تَدْرِي مَا خَانُوا أَمَانَاتِهِمُ ائْتُمِنُوا عَلَى كِتَابِ اللَّهِ فَحَرَّفُوهُ وَ بَدَّلُوهُ وَ دُلُّوا عَلَى وُلَاةِ الْأَمْرِ مِنْهُمْ فَانْصَرَفُوا عَنْهُمْ فَأَذَاقَهُمُ اللَّهُ لِبَاسَ الْجُوعِ وَ الْخَوْفِ بِمَا كَانُوا يَصْنَعُونَ وَ سَأَلْتَ عَنْ رَجُلَيْنِ اغْتَصَبَا رَجُلًا مَالًا كَانَ يُنْفِقُهُ عَلَى الْفُقَرَاءِ وَ الْمَسَاكِينِ وَ أَبْنَاءِ السَّبِيلِ وَ فِي سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ فَلَمَّا اغْتَصَبَاهُ ذَلِكَ لَمْ يَرْضَيَا حَيْثُ غَصَبَاهُ حَتَّى حَمَّلَاهُ إِيَّاهُ كُرْهاً فَوْقَ رَقَبَتِهِ إِلَى مَنَازِلِهِمَا فَلَمَّا أَحْرَزَاهُ تَوَلَّيَا إِنْفَاقَهُ أَ يَبْلُغَانِ بِذَلِكَ كُفْراً فَلَعَمْرِي لَقَدْ نَافَقَا قَبْلَ ذَلِكَ وَ رَدَّا عَلَى اللَّهِ عَزَّ وَ جَلَّ كَلَامَهُ وَ هَزِئَا بِرَسُولِهِ ( صلى الله عليه وآله ) وَ هُمَا الْكَافِرَانِ عَلَيْهِمَا لَعْنَةُ اللَّهِ وَ الْمَلَائِكَةِ وَ النَّاسِ أَجْمَعِينَ وَ اللَّهِ مَا دَخَلَ قَلْبَ أَحَدٍ مِنْهُمَا شَيْءٌ مِنَ الْإِيمَانِ مُنْذُ خُرُوجِهِمَا مِنْ حَالَتَيْهِمَا وَ مَا ازْدَادَا إِلَّا شَكّاً كَانَا خَدَّاعَيْنِ مُرْتَابَيْنِ مُنَافِقَيْنِ حَتَّى تَوَفَّتْهُمَا مَلَائِكَةُ الْعَذَابِ إِلَى مَحَلِّ الْخِزْيِ فِي دَارِ الْمُقَامِ وَ سَأَلْتَ عَمَّنْ حَضَرَ ذَلِكَ الرَّجُلَ وَ هُوَ يُغْصَبُ مَالُهُ وَ يُوضَعُ عَلَى رَقَبَتِهِ مِنْهُمْ عَارِفٌ وَ مُنْكِرٌ فَأُولَئِكَ أَهْلُ الرَّدَّةِ الْأُولَى مِنْ هَذِهِ الْأُمَّةِ فَعَلَيْهِمْ لَعْنَةُ اللَّهِ وَ الْمَلَائِكَةِ وَ النَّاسِ أَجْمَعِينَ وَ سَأَلْتَ عَنْ مَبْلَغِ عِلْمِنَا وَ هُوَ عَلَى ثَلَاثَةِ وُجُوهٍ مَاضٍ وَ غَابِرٌ وَ حَادِثٌ فَأَمَّا الْمَاضِي فَمُفَسَّرٌ وَ أَمَّا الْغَابِرُ فَمَزْبُورٌ وَ أَمَّا الْحَادِثُ فَقَذْفٌ فِي الْقُلُوبِ وَ نَقْرٌ فِي الْأَسْمَاعِ وَ هُوَ أَفْضَلُ عِلْمِنَا وَ لَا نَبِيَّ بَعْدَ نَبِيِّنَا مُحَمَّدٍ ( صلى الله عليه وآله ) وَ سَأَلْتَ عَنْ أُمَّهَاتِ أَوْلَادِهِمْ وَ عَنْ نِكَاحِهِمْ وَ عَنْ طَلَاقِهِمْ فَأَمَّا أُمَّهَاتُ أَوْلَادِهِمْ فَهُنَّ عَوَاهِرُ إِلَى يَوْمِ الْقِيَامَةِ نِكَاحٌ بِغَيْرِ وَلِيٍّ وَ طَلَاقٌ فِي غَيْرِ عِدَّةٍ وَ أَمَّا مَنْ دَخَلَ فِي دَعْوَتِنَا فَقَدْ هَدَمَ إِيمَانُهُ ضَلَالَهُ وَ يَقِينُهُ شَكَّهُ وَ سَأَلْتَ عَنِ الزَّكَاةِ فِيهِمْ فَمَا كَانَ مِنَ الزَّكَاةِ فَأَنْتُمْ أَحَقُّ بِهِ لِأَنَّا قَدْ حَلَّلْنَا ذَلِكَ لَكُمْ مَنْ كَانَ مِنْكُمْ وَ أَيْنَ كَانَ وَ سَأَلْتَ عَنِ الضُّعَفَاءِ فَالضَّعِيفُ مَنْ لَمْ يُرْفَعْ إِلَيْهِ حُجَّةٌ وَ لَمْ يَعْرِفِ الِاخْتِلَافَ فَإِذَا عَرَفَ الِاخْتِلَافَ فَلَيْسَ بِضَعِيفٍ وَ سَأَلْتَ عَنِ الشَّهَادَاتِ لَهُمْ فَأَقِمِ الشَّهَادَةَ لِلَّهِ عَزَّ وَ جَلَّ وَ لَوْ عَلَى نَفْسِكَ وَ الْوَالِدَيْنِ وَ الْأَقْرَبِينَ فِيمَا بَيْنَكَ وَ بَيْنَهُمْ فَإِنْ خِفْتَ عَلَى أَخِيكَ ضَيْماً فَلَا وَ ادْعُ إِلَى شَرَائِطِ اللَّهِ عَزَّ ذِكْرُهُ بِمَعْرِفَتِنَا مَنْ رَجَوْتَ إِجَابَتَهُ وَ لَا تَحَصَّنْ بِحِصْنِ رِيَاءٍ وَ وَالِ آلَ مُحَمَّدٍ وَ لَا تَقُلْ لِمَا بَلَغَكَ عَنَّا وَ نُسِبَ إِلَيْنَا هَذَا بَاطِلٌ وَ إِنْ كُنْتَ تَعْرِفُ مِنَّا خِلَافَهُ فَإِنَّكَ لَا تَدْرِي لِمَا قُلْنَاهُ وَ عَلَى أَيِّ وَجْهٍ وَصَفْنَاهُ آمِنْ بِمَا أُخْبِرُكَ وَ لَا تُفْشِ مَا اسْتَكْتَمْنَاكَ مِنْ خَبَرِكَ إِنَّ مِنْ وَاجِبِ حَقِّ أَخِيكَ أَنْ لَا تَكْتُمَهُ شَيْئاً تَنْفَعُهُ بِهِ لِأَمْرِ دُنْيَاهُ وَ آخِرَتِهِ وَ لَا تَحْقِدَ عَلَيْهِ وَ إِنْ أَسَاءَ وَ أَجِبْ دَعْوَتَهُ إِذَا دَعَاكَ وَ لَا تُخَلِّ بَيْنَهُ وَ بَيْنَ عَدُوِّهِ مِنَ النَّاسِ وَ إِنْ كَانَ أَقْرَبَ إِلَيْهِ مِنْكَ وَ عُدْهُ فِي مَرَضِهِ لَيْسَ مِنْ أَخْلَاقِ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ الْغِشُّ وَ لَا الْأَذَى وَ لَا الْخِيَانَةُ وَ لَا الْكِبْرُ وَ لَا الْخَنَا وَ لَا الْفُحْشُ وَ لَا الْأَمْرُ بِهِ فَإِذَا رَأَيْتَ الْمُشَوَّهَ الْأَعْرَابِيَّ فِي جَحْفَلٍ جَرَّارٍ فَانْتَظِرْ فَرَجَكَ وَ لِشِيعَتِكَ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ وَ إِذَا انْكَسَفَتِ الشَّمْسُ فَارْفَعْ بَصَرَكَ إِلَى السَّمَاءِ وَ انْظُرْ مَا فَعَلَ اللَّهُ عَزَّ وَ جَلَّ بِالْمُجْرِمِينَ فَقَدْ فَسَّرْتُ لَكَ جُمَلًا مُجْمَلًا وَ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَى مُحَمَّدٍ وَ آلِهِ الْأَخْيَارِ .
Authenticity of the Qur'an
by Ahang Rabbani on Thu May 28, 2009 07:52 AM PDTNotwithstanding the body of writing suggesting that the sacred Qur'an that we have today has "evolved", I for one completely agree with Reza41 that the Qur'an is wholly authentic and no question can be raised about its sacredness or its accuracy, completeness and faithfulness.
Despration of evils
by Reza 41 on Wed May 27, 2009 05:45 PM PDTto everyone:
out of desperation going after HOLLY Quran and try to create doubt to this book GOD and doubting GOD power , GOD had said in Quran, he is the protector of this holly book ,therefore, no one can claim this book is impaired .
although ,who ever this Zulfagar 110 is ,he is try to insinuate some thing that is impossible . Quran it has been untouched for over 1400 years. only fools going after something impossible (finding evidence of such claim is impossible).
I would challenge to prove if is more necessary and need .but it is unworthy even writing this few line.
The Lost Quran/Tahrif al-Qur'an
by Zulfiqar110 on Tue May 26, 2009 11:40 PM PDTThere are countless hadith in the Shi'ite collection of the sayings of the Imams that the current version of the text of the Book is the not the entire Book; that the true Qur'an was suppressed; and that the Uthmani vulgate (the current version) of the text is therefore a tampered, incomplete and interpolated text presented by the enemies of the Ahl-i-Bayt when it was standardized during the caliphate of Uthman. Until the time of the Shaykh al-Saduq ibn Babuye the fact that the current Qur'an is not the Qur'an in its entirety (i.e. the doctrine of the tahrif al-quran) was a standard Shi'ite article of faith. It was only from Ibn Babuye's time onwards that this controversial view began to be quietly set-aside by the Shi'ite establishment largely for issues of political expediency.
In the 19th century two apparent lost Surahs came to the attention of Western European scholarly community (Surat'ul-Walaya and Surat'ul-Nurayn), the texts of which was published in the first lithographed edition of the Dabistan-i-Mazahib initially. These two purported lost Surahs have generated controversy ever since, and the issue of the tahrif al-quran and these two purported lost Surahs was discussed as recently as the late 1990s by Baha'i Islamicist scholar at U. Toronto Todd Lawson in "Note For The Study Of A Shi'i Qur'an", Journal of Semitic Studies, 1991:
See also this page, which although dismissive of the issue, has a valuable list of recent sources on the question:
//www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Text/forgery.html
Finally:
From M.B. Majlisi Bihar al-Anwar (Oceans of Light) vol. 13, pp. 146-47, being a conversation between one 'Ali ibn Fadil al-Mazandarani and his shaykh, Zayn al-Din 'Ali al-Maghribi, also quoted by Henry Corbin in En islam iranien (vol. 4, pp. 346-47):
O master, I notice that certain verses of the Qur'an have no connection with what precedes or what follows them. My inadequate intelligence is incapable of knowing why." To which the teacher replied: "Such is truly the case. The reason is that when the Prophet was transferred from this perishable abode to the permanent Abode, and the two Qurayshites (that is, the first two caliphs, Abu Bakr and 'Umar) committed what they did in forcefully grabbing hold of the public, exoteric caliphate, the Prince of Believers ['Ali] assembled the totality of the Qur'an (jami' al-Qur'an) in a leather pouch and brought it to them, while the people of the Quraysh were assembled in the mosque. Then, 'Ali said to them: 'This is the Book of God that the Prophet, God's Messenger, commanded me to present to you so that on the Day of Resurrection a witness for you might stand before God.' But the Pharaoh and the Nimrod of this Community [that is, 'Umar, known and detested by the Imamites for, among other things, the pride with which he opposed the commandments of God and the Prophet] replied, 'We have no need of your Qur'an,' to which the Imam said 'The Messenger of God who was my dear friend told me that you would answer in such manner, but in acting thus I have sought to have evidence burst out against you.' He then retired to his home, saying, 'There is no God but You, You alone. None is associated with You. There is no one who can reject what is already known in Your Mind, nor who can oppose what your Wisdom requires. Let it be thus, You who is my witness against them on Resurrection Day.' At that, Ibn Abi Qahafa (i.e. Abu Bakr) called the Muslims together [muslimin, the exoteric "Sunnite" Muslims, as opposed to the mu'minin, the esoteric believers in the Imams] and said to them: 'Let him who has a verse or a sura of the Qur'an at his home bring it here.' Then Abu 'Ubayd Allah, and Uthman, and Mu'awiyya...came, each with a verse or a sura, and they thus compiled this Qur'an. But they rejected all that might have hurt their interests or demonstrated their evil actions after the Prophet's death. That is why the verses are without connection to one another. But the Qur'an that the Prince of Believers had compiled with his own hand is preserved with the Lord of the Cause (sahib al-amr, that is,
the Imam of the Age). It contains all, absolutely everything."
Hadith from Ja'far Sadiq in Kulayni's Usul min al-Kafi, vol. 4, 443-44,
num. 3577.
"When 'Ali finished copying the Book, he showed it to the people and said: "Here is the Book of God, may He be exalted and glorified, such as it was revealed to Muhammad; I have compiled it from two tablets." And the people answered him, saying: We already have a complete version of the Qur'an, and we have no need [of your version]." And 'Ali replied: "By God, from today on you shall see it no more; my mission was to inform you of your duty to read what I had compiled."
Dear seagull,
by Reza 41 on Tue May 26, 2009 10:58 PM PDTMr.seagull,Alla'u'Abha
you are taking my sentences out of context ,than what outcome will be one you wrote,
pleas let me elaborate;
firstly, you brought my respond to long page illustration by someone;which they responded me to "why H.Bahaullah brought word of GOD in Arabic" that was from another blog ,which I said :GOD has clearly at least in three location said who is intruder would do that my messengers speak his mothers tongue Q41:44 ,Q16:103 , Q14:14and than I said; no one can speak for GOD, than I said:" پس بنابر این ١٠ صفحه دیگر شما دلیل بیاورید اگر ربط و دلیلی و تبصره قرانی نداشته باشد هر چقدر منطقی هم به نظر آیند اما کلام قران نباشد فایده ای ندارند.
because GOD word can be discounted or strives from only Quran, NO ONE can come and change things around and clime that GOD want this way now , than any one can come interpret and confiscate Quran for their own benefit, that what Abo Bakr & Omar did, they closed their eyes on clear evidence ,and confiscate the faith for their own interpretation . H.Ali (A) he did not challenge them just for sake of Islam, he was hand-tide and dragged to masjed for "Beyat" at the time they even killed his wife H.Fatemeh(s). Islam after 1400 years was reborn 30years ago , and still catching up, but any fair person see Wahhabi dictatorship that is in Arabistan, how potato they are about world of Islam suffering, that is what Ali was talking about,just last year Iranian girl invention team won 17 gold medal and 9 or 12 silver in geneva, is not a year pass we don't see by our young man and women this kind of achievements, when did we have such flourishing in history of Islam and Iran??, we were all happy in shah time we make "Peykan" they deceived us they gave us this car that was not ours, but ,everyone thought it was ours ,that was only pride we had , what else we had ? open your fair eyes you see, we have mad our own war plain 3 kind , many different kind of tanks , thousand of item was made in Iran which we were told we cant make it, just you all be fair, Bahai are living nicely in Iran every one knows that, just a few case, that is Bahai Institute plot and instigating to break the non proselytizing law which hopfuly they are going to be free soon, what those kid were doing in Shiraz, they were teaching Ruhi books , but they don't tell you ,you hear they bought their book from local store ,that is BS and up right lie, big lie, why did they sent out the video 18 weeks, uncover them who they were, and what they believed ? come on , give me a break would you.?
mercy
اینها سعی در کشتن چراغ عقل ومنطقتان که روشن شده دارند مواظب باشی
Seagull (not verified)Tue May 26, 2009 08:03 PM PDT
" پس بنابر این ١٠ صفحه دیگر شما دلیل بیاورید اگر ربط و دلیلی و تبصره قرانی نداشته باشد هر چقدر منطقی هم به نظر آیند اما کلام قران نباشد فایده ای ندارند.
"
look at the use of mantegh in both agh rezas posts,
are you saying you dont need mantegh if you have Ghoran but dont let anybody kill your mantegh because you need it to discern!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Astaghforelah een jamaa at ro haloo gir avordi.
manteghi bashad vali eslami nabashad fayedeh nadaared.
Pass mantegh che fayedehi dareh!
let me spare you from blog fatigue,
you are implying that H.Ali(A) is talking about the Sonnies, and not you. Your standard for justice is confined to a fraction of people and you are morally supperior to the Sonnie Arabs and everyone else, because of that.
Like that akhoond who proposes hijab to overcome jelousy. If it works for you then be it.
چراغ عقلتان را میخواهند با این شعر ها فوت کنند , نگذارید
Reza 41Tue May 26, 2009 06:24 PM PDT
آآقای فریار عزیز و احبای الهی:
سرکردگان مغز شوی حرفه ای بهایی زمانی که آستری خود را هویدا و خود را عاجز از دلیل و جواب میبینند سعی در کور کردن عقلها با این گونه شعر های احساسی بر می آیند و این عمل از سلسله کارها و ردیف همان تکنیکیست که بعد اینکه احساس میکنند تعداد کسانی که روی از این عقیده برمیگردانند روبه افزایش است برای منسجم کردن بهاییان از طریق خراب کردن گلستان جاوید ها و این نوع خود زنی ها احساسات عزیزان بهایی را بر انگیخته و انسجامی موقت ایجاد میکنند. کور کردن این عقل و شعورها با چند شعر گنک نیمه عربی در این دوره عصر اینترنت دیگر امکان پذیر نیست . این تلاشها بیهوده است . جناب فریام زمان تقلید به پایان رسیده شما و دوستانتان که از مرجعتان جناب میلانی دائمان تقلیدمیکنید و نادانسته خطابات ایشان را در این سابت تکرار میکنید کمی راجع به نکاتی که اشاره کردم فکر کنید وقت بیداری رسیده خودتان بنویسید حال هر چه باشد خوتان نظر بدهید چه عیبی دارد. خودتان فکر کنید نگذارید با این شعرها مثل آن کلاغ گردویی را که که آن سنجاب در زمین عقل شما کاشته بدزدند . عقل خود را با این نوع شعرهایی که تمام القاعات شرک آمیز دارد کور نکنید .اینها سعی در کشتن چراغ عقل ومنطقتان که روشن شده دارند مواظب باشید. مرسی
vaseh ma janamz ab nakesh
by Babak Khorramdin on Tue May 26, 2009 06:23 PM PDTExcuse me for misspelling of your name ...
by Anonym (not verified) on Tue May 26, 2009 04:29 PM PDTOn the very top of the page it says FARYAR and that is what I used instead of reading FARYARM which is the correct spelling of your username.
As for the blog, well I am sure there was a good reason for it. My main point is that it seems rather aggressive and it attracts and invites incorrect anti-Islamic ideas.
Even though I love Islam, but I think that there is no religious fix for Iran.
** Religion must be separated from politics **. There should be no Muslim, Christian, Jewish, Zoroastrian or Baha'i nation as such.
However, the people of Iran should have God in their lives through whatever religion they have. Be it Muslim, Christian, Jewish, Zoroastrian or Baha'i. A nation without the acknowledgement of God can lose it's focus and greed and evil can take over the land.
اطلاعیه
Reza 41Tue May 26, 2009 04:23 PM PDT
دوستان ; بنا به تقاضای بالا و نبود بودجه و وضع بد اقتصاد جهانی و به علت کمبود آخوند ٢ ریالی متقاضیان و کسانی که سوال دارند از این به بعد طبق نوبت تو صف بایستند رضا ٤١ یکی یکی سوالهاشان را جواب می دهد و احبای الهی حول ندهند جواب به همه میرسد. اگر کار به جایی برسد که ازدهام بیش از اندازه باشد مجبوریم جواب ها را کوپنی کنیم ؛ در این صورت دوستداران خرید و فروش این نوع کوپن ها غیر قانونی میباشد و خواهشا کوپن ها را گم نکنید المثنی صادر نمی شود.روزی فقط یک سوال از سهم دیگران خواهشا کش نروید آی -تی جان شما چک میشود .با تشکر روابط عمومی دفتر رضا آخوند ٢ ریالی
در ضمن ارائه کوپن تقلبی جرم است و حد دارد و نا محدود نیست. وسلام نامه تمام و برکاتو و علیه سلام
تقدیم به شما و تمامی ردیه نویسان
faryarmTue May 26, 2009 01:56 PM PDT
تقدیم به شما و تمامی ردیه نویسان
به نام خدا
هر چه محبوب مرا بیشتر انکار کنید
بیشتر پیشکش گرمی بازار کنید
چون چراغی است که افروخته ی دست خداست
هر چه "افواه" گمارید، پر انوار کنید
"کلما جاءَ رسولٌ بما لاتهوی" ست
چون نه بر زعم شما آمده انکار کنید
گر که باطل بود این راه و روش، "کانَ ذهوق"
ورکه حق است به انکار چه اصرار کنید؟
آن همه سعی شما "یُحَرِفونَ الکَلَم" است
خارج از موضع خود مساله اظهار کنید
انگلیس است اگر حامی و گر روس و پروس
این همه نوکر حقند چه انکار کنید؟
زانکه هر امر به "اسباب معلّق" شده است
همگی رونق بازار جهاندار کنید
رمز و رازی است در "العلم حجاب الاکبر"
نور را برقعِ ماهِ رخِ دلدار کنید
پیش از این مظهر حق "شاعر مجنون" خواندید
حالیا بسته به بیگانه اش اظهار کنید
طائر گلشن قدسش زچنین دام رهاست
خویش را در قفس شبهه گرفتار کنید
نتوان چهره ز خورشید به گِل پوشاندن
چند بر کار عبث کوشش بسیار کنید
عشق هرگز نتوانید به صلّابه کشید
گر چه هر ثانیه حلاج سر دار کنید
سر پرواز اگر سوی حقیقت دارید
بال و پر از گِل اغراض سبکبار کنید
سوختن خشک جسد تا به کی از آتش نفی
رو سوی جنت "من تحتها الانهار" کنید
آنزمان هر سخنش بحر معانی بینید
شادمان صید هزاران دُرشهوار کنید
آنزمان علم شما "یقذفه الله" گردد
کشف اسرار ز زلف بت عیّار کنید
تا هزاران دل سودا زده چون "حیران" را
روشن از شعشعه ی طلعت دلدار کنید
from: //newnegah.org
are you honest in your questioning?? can you handle the truth?
by Reza 41 on Tue May 26, 2009 01:25 PM PDTare you sure my "design to confuse" answers, is not going to confuse you ,Mr. Faryar?
are you honest in your question ? truly?
do you really want to know why I call Bahai faith (rather bahais) enemy of Quran, and Islam (Abrahamic religion) belief in total ?
if you truly sincere in your question, you are not going to like outcome, and what is answer going to be , I tell you from right now. not you would not accepted, you are not going to like it.
if you are honest and free you learn ,if you are follower(Taghlid konandeh) and low self confident ,you will never learn.
I was working on one answer to one of your previous request, which I disposed it (for lack of your sincerity in your question)
now , if you are honest in your question, I am going to write you one. you will get your answer
true intention of who, you or me?
by Reza 41 on Tue May 26, 2009 07:54 PM PDTMr ,Alborz,
although, I should repeat your sentence back to you"Your attempt to disguise your true intentions are utterly unworthy of a response."
just let me tell you , "master" slanderers ,and master deceivers propaganda producer machine like you, have been try divert and masquerade true Islams and Quran message of GOD to; backward and obselite in eye of public ,as you try to masquerade me and denigrate my intellectual objection to Bahai faith with Dr. Azal contention to Bahais .
in spite of all yours and their evil afford ,Islam(as you know) with NO effort and proselytizing, IS THE FASTEST GROWING RELEGIONE in the world
here :hear it from not Muslims from its enemies .
//www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-3X5hIFXYU
Now, go back and tell Mr. Arab, with the help of all of WG ( World Government )behind curtain NWO leaders like his masters Rockefeller and Carnegie and all of them running this Zionist concocted anti GOD and Islam propaganda man made religion, that they created ( that Mr. Arab worked for, once, before he become one of UHJ members); come up with better idea, than "Ruhi ,Ravani" classes, all they made is, so many "Ravani "and this program hurting the cause rather than helping .
Everyone hates these brain washing classes and methods, believe me no longer works and effective , "they learn today they forget tomorrow"(so many of Canadian Ruhi student comment on ruhi classes). that should tell your bosses something.
Dear Alborz; It should be hard, not be able write BS propaganda, hate blog that you were producing every other day ( before my present in this site) and hide your contention and go to the direction of Ostad SHahnz & hot tea topic and hold back your hate sweet taste comments, it should be very hard to be very careful what you write. It should be very hard dealing with your oppressed conscience and keeping it away from light of truth.
My true intention here; nothing, just clear up some of evil propaganda's, and show to every Bahais, what their evil master controllers doing with their love one graves, as they did in SHIRAZ to gain world sympathy for themselves and hate for Islam. that is my real intention, if you like to know. My intention here show their true faces which is hiding behind holly masks, soon every one going to see , don't worry.
Other wise, if you are sincere and honest, come forth and let me know where do I lie ,so my dirty heart would be expose and your innocent masters they will be clean of charges, or let me know in good faith ,so I can see the point I am missing, I'm try to do my best to be nice and fair and honest to all of you ,why don't you, why is much easier for you to slander and throw dirt and do dirty personal attacks ?
Here , I extend my hand and ask you, stop your contention against Islam , and preserve mutual respect,get in honest dialogue than, if you are right and I am wrong ,you may have flourish your belief this way better and make evry reader Bahai, dont you think ??, you never know , you may convince me also that Bahai faith is not concocted by WG and NWO, you never know
//www.educate-yourself.org/nwo/index.shtml
peace
Why do you call Bahais enemies of Islam?
by faryarm on Tue May 26, 2009 09:18 AM PDTWhy do you call Bahais enemies of Islam?
Is it because, your every interpretation of the Quran is based on the self preservaton of Shia establishment? and not on the promise and fulfilment of verses in teh Quran that promise of renewal of Islam and the coming of new "Rasul"?
I again draw your attention to the verses in this clip.
Imam Ali's words are Self Evident.
by faryarm on Tue May 26, 2009 09:12 AM PDTImam Ali's words are Self Evident.
As to Covenant Breakers;
Baha'u'llah has vowed that in this dispensation for the first time in religious history, the Faith of God will not be divided.
"Were it not for the protecting power of the Covenant to guard the
impregnable fort of the Cause of God, there would arise among the
Baha'is, in one day, a thousand different sects as was the case in
former ages."
propaganda and mainly dilution
by Reza 41 on Tue May 26, 2009 08:21 AM PDTFaryar,
although in this blog ,you are trying to confiscate ,dilute and divert H. Ali (a) attention to benefiting your faith and substitute his followers to his today's enemies (Wahhabi's and Bahaies) and spreading this misconception, so who doesn't know the whole story of his difficulties with OMAR -e- Ebn khattab, falls in this deceit and dilution,I was also asked by "some one" asking "pleas" to make a comment, so why is this "someone" complaining now ? that I did what I was asked for?
I really thought you meant it ,when you said "you are for honest discussion".
Faryar this is what you want to say :
by Anonys9405 (not verified) on Tue May 26, 2009 06:19 AM PDTWhat is Covenant-breaking?
In a letter to an individual dated 23 March 1975, the Universal House of Justice wrote:
When a person declares his acceptance of Baha'u'llah as a Manifestation of God he becomes a party to the Covenant and accepts the totality of His Revelation. If he then turns round and attacks Baha'u'llah or the Central Institution of the Faith he violates the Covenant. If this happens every effort is made to help that person to see the illogicality and error of his actions, but if he persists he must, in accordance with the instructions of Baha'u'llah Himself, be shunned as a Covenant-breaker.
The personal failings that lead people to violate the Covenant to which they know they have committed themselves have been described by the Guardian as "the blind hatred, the unbounded presumption, the incredible folly, the abject perfidy, the vaulting ambition" which, in varying degrees, afflict the persons concerned. While some of these may have been duped by others, 'Abdu'l-Baha has said of them:
These do not doubt the validity of the Covenant, but selfish motives have dragged them to this condition. It is not that they do not know what they do--they are perfectly aware and still they exhibit opposition.
The Master has warned that, if unchecked, Covenant-breaking would "utterly destroy the Cause of God, exterminate His Law and render of no account all efforts exerted in the past". He sets this warning in the context of the fact that the central purpose of Baha'u'llah's Revelation is to create unity:
Were it not for the protecting power of the Covenant to guard the impregnable fort of the Cause of God, there would arise among the Baha'is, in one day, a thousand different sects as was the case in former ages.
Apart from the danger that Covenant-breaking poses to the development of the Cause, it represents a spiritual contagion threatening the well-being of the individual believer because of its subtle appeal to the human ego. 'Abdu'l-Baha called for the complete exclusion from the Baha'i community of anyone found to be infected with the virus of Covenant-breaking and urged all believers to shun any contact whatever with the persons involved.
I think Hazrat Ali (a) is speaking about covenant breakers in Moslem community.
I may be wrong.
unworthy of a response!
by SAS (not verified) on Mon May 25, 2009 11:46 PM PDT"unworthy of a response."
-Alborz
I couldn't be more agree with you.
I remember Fada'eeyane Islam (current Hojattiyeh)visited my familly sometimes during regime of Shah.They allways started with Allah'u'abha, jan,....
Reza, which attacks?
by faryarm on Mon May 25, 2009 09:59 PM PDTReza, which attacks?
Are Imam Ali's words now "propoganda" by Bahais?
You have mistaken your friends as foes !
by alborz on Mon May 25, 2009 09:42 PM PDTYour bed-fellow, Dr. Azal, has blown your cover and it is not a pretty sight!
Your claims to the contrary are nothing but rationalization of your mis-steps.
Your attempt to disguise your true intentions are utterly unworthy of a response.
Alborz
for sure Im getting pay bro..
by Reza 41 on Mon May 25, 2009 09:33 PM PDTDear seagull, Allah Abha
thanks for reminding me who I am, I have no doubt, who I am,I know for sure I'm not Baha'i setiz, I love my Bahai Iranian Hamvatan as much as my moslems or others, how ever I feel betray by this concocted regim and institutions, but do I want change any ones faith ? NOOO, IS NON OF MY BUSSNES,
but at the same time ,lyes that is being spread constantly by propaganda department in haifa aginst Islam and moslems, has to be dealt with, as you said I am getting pay to take care of these, by who ? you will know latter. when you get to see my boss .
Peace
p.s how did you find me doing naneh man gharib, I dont think I did ,I just said my openion, who was H.Ali(a) was talking about .
Reza41's Logic> Imam Ali & The British
by faryarm on Mon May 25, 2009 09:30 PM PDTWhen you resort to this kind of pathetic accusation; one can not but not take you or comments, seriously.
Lets keep on the subject of this blog and acknowledge why Imam Ali spoke as He did...
The absence of any logic in your statements about Bahais is just as Baseless as Calling Hazrat Imam Ali 's prophetic words about the decline of Islam, as a product of British Secret Service.
PS
Reza,
You claim that desperation does not apply to you; but for lack of any logic or historical evidence, it certanly applies to your sources.
Despreation dosent aply to me my friend
by Reza 41 on Mon May 25, 2009 08:46 PM PDTDear Alborz;
it seem my greeting to my friend ,Dr.Azal it bothered you ,
my advise to him not bother to some evil Questions and comments referred to deluge of unworthy personal attack that was launched by many of you against him,in his first present, which caused him lot of pain . all he was doing throwing some evidence from Bahais that are hidden by Bahai administration, and I did mention that my responding criticism it may goes after his Bobi belief too ,so warned him don't take it as personal.
you see, you don't get it , you just want denigrate my face by some words that I said , that actually show how desperate you become, other wise there is nothing there unclear, and don't forget I am not try go against your faith by attacking ,my possession is defencive , if you lie ,I am there to respond ,you attack ,same thing happens, but you don't ,than you don't see me to bother myself to make comment or respond, like your last blog. therefore, desperation it doesn't apply to me.
now, my support for Dr.Azal, yes ,most definitely ,he is one of the thousands that is wronged by Bahai institute, as he said he was bitten, and his life was threatened, he was not treated as he deserved , therefore I have no problem to listen to him ,it doesn't matter who he believe, I listen to his sound as an Iranian, that, his life was waisted on some concocted regime by British ,which presented to him as religion.
peace
Mr.Reza, Masalaton:
by farshadjon on Mon May 25, 2009 08:12 PM PDTMasalaton, Mr.Reza:
These are twelve teachings of the Baha’i faith:
I can compare them one by one but let’s pick some of them:
1- Obedience to government and non-involvement in partisan politics
Let’s elaborate a little bit about “Party of God” to begin with.
2- Unity of religion
Let’s talk about infidels.
3- Equality between men and womenLet’s talk about why women are counted half of men in Islam.
And compare the rest of the teachings one by one, please!P.S. Leila has updated her blog so I invite everyone to take a look at her most recent videos at the following address: //www.elham76.info/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=26&Itemid=30 Mr. Reza, You are welcome, too.
Reza41: why blame others and deflect attention...?
by faryarm on Mon May 25, 2009 08:05 PM PDTReza,
why are you trying to deflect the attention from Shia Islam Corruption?
Imam Ali is addressing the whole world of Islam, "on that day".
Your response fails to acknowledge Imam Ali's crystal clear and Obvious reference to Islam as a whole and not everything but Iran!
"A day shall be witnessed by My people whereon there will have remained of Islám naught but a name, and of the Qur'án naught but a mere appearance. The doctors (the clergy) of that age shall be the most evil the world hath ever seen. Mischief hath proceeded from them, and on them will it recoil." And, again: "At that hour His malediction shall descend upon you, and your curse shall afflict you, and your religion shall remain an empty word on your tongues. And when these signs appear amongst you, anticipate the day when the red-hot wind will have swept over you, or the day when ye will have been disfigured, or when stones will have rained upon you."
delete
by faryarm on Mon May 25, 2009 07:56 PM PDTdelete
An English Version ...
by faryarm on Mon May 25, 2009 07:33 PM PDTThis is an English text of the Islamic tradition by the Firts Shia Imam, the authenticity of which Muslims themselves recognize:
"A day shall be witnessed by My people whereon there will have remained of Islám naught but a name, and of the Qur'án naught but a mere appearance. The doctors (the clergy) of that age shall be the most evil the world hath ever seen. Mischief hath proceeded from them, and on them will it recoil." And, again: "At that hour His malediction shall descend upon you, and your curse shall afflict you, and your religion shall remain an empty word on your tongues. And when these signs appear amongst you, anticipate the day when the red-hot wind will have swept over you, or the day when ye will have been disfigured, or when stones will have rained upon you."
"respond to your attack ,like this one, "
by Seagull (not verified) on Mon May 25, 2009 07:24 PM PDTwhy is this an attack?
Saying Alaabha with wrong spelling from a Bahai setiz like Agh Reza is more of an attack than this blog. H. Ali is talking about Reza41 thats why is reza feels he is being attacked. Yes, H.Ali is attacking Reza, whats next.
This passage is from the book of H. Ali, why should it not be addressed?
Evidently H. Ali foresaw the end of the rein of something. Any other reasonable interpretation, feedback and or comments is welcome.
And Agh Reza stop all the naneh man gharibi, you know who you are and we nkow who you are, no marketing is necessary.
You got a take on the passage share it and salavaat.
You got hard evidence, present it dont worry put it on the table that why they pay you.
There are some whom God confirms in their faith, and some whom God willfully mislead.
your interpretation of the above passage would be a good sign and an honest start in knowing the difference between the two.
Reza41 can only be responded to ...
by alborz on Mon May 25, 2009 07:16 PM PDT...by his very own words quoted verbatim below:
******
welcome back bro
by Reza 41 on Thu Apr 30, 2009 05:59 AM PDT
Thanks for your reconsideration Dr. Azal. welcome back we all missed you specially dear Baha'i adherents and HUJ snitches, pleas don't bother responding to some evil Question and comment ,they don't worth your time. although, I do have great difference in my belief with you but pleas don't take my view personal , I'm her just serving light of GOD almighty, nothing sacred. only GOD is exam ,no one else is.
welcome back .
ref. //iranian.com/main/blog/nur/true-greatest-name-ism-i-azam-symbolpage1
*******
Can such an alliance be explained by any other reason than that of desparation to the point that he is overjoyed to have found any bed-fellow. This is indeed a sign of the bankruptcy of his creed.
Alborz