Converting to Islam

Ayatollah Mohammad Ibrahim Jannaati

can someone tell me more about Ayatollah Jannaati - his website does not respond to questions and is never updated....

Salam

Shalom Mehdi,

I forgot about this thread for a long time, but I thank you for your response. Here is my answer to some of your questions. I think Taymaz answered many of your questions better than I can, but he and I may have different perspectives, so I'll offer mine as well.

My comment about "hatred of Muslims" on this site, referred to many comments I remember reading that did not just criticise certain Islamic ideas (which is totally legitimate), but went on to demonise Muslims themselves. Comments like "go back to Arabia" or assuming that all Iranian Muslims are IRI apparatchiks etc. There is a difference between religious criticism and religious bigotry, and I think we should all make a concerted effort to avoid the latter.

As for criticising radicals, there are a few things to remember. First; it is unjust to assume about people who call themselves Muslims that they support violence unless they explicitly say otherwise. Muslims are individuals, and must be allowed to speak for themselves.

Second; if you take another glance at my post, you'll see that I acknowledge that I am not comfortable with everything that comes out of the my foundational texts, or with all the reported narrations about my prophet. I have a complex, often critical view of these texts, but that does not stop me from living a Muslim life to the fullest as I understand it.

I believe that when Muhammad said, "ana basharun mithlokom" (I am a human being as you are), he meant it. Just as Christians have turned Jesus into something he would never have imagined his followers would turn him into, I suspect that many Muslims are more Catholic and the the proverbial pope with respect to Muhammad.

Separating the Messenger from the Message, like you said, is a good idea, and is consistent with the Mu'tazilite strain that runs through the philosophy of many Shi'a thinkers. That is, actions are not good because the prophet performed them, but rather, there is an independent standard according to which the messenger and the message can be judged.

Lastly, I firmly believe that theocracy is an anomaly in the history of a politically quietist twelver Shi'ism. My opposition to theocracy in Iran comes partly from what I see as a destruction of traditional Shi'ism. I honestly believe that I can be a far better Muslim here in America than I ever could be back home.

Lastly, I never lived in Israel, but I have passion for language, dialog and religion, which led me to study Hebrew for a time.
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Mowlana in Hebrew

Reply to Mehdi Mazloom

Shalom!

Thank you for taking the time in replying, you brought up some important issues and I will try my best to answer.

Before replying to your points, let me also give you a brief description of my background. Although I am Iranian, I have lived most my life as an atheist. But since I am Iranian, I did live with Muslims as well and when I converted to Islam, my milieu didn't change that much. This is because although some members of my family (very few) are religious, most are agnostic or atheist, but I did have lots of Muslim friends. Now I have spent almost the last decade with the Muslim community, Mosks, clerics etc. and to a certain extent, I am also a hawzavi (a Shia seminary student) thus I know the secular and religious communities and I can say that both of them equally have their good people as well as their idiots.

Some people immediately assume that if one belongs to a certain religious group, then he or she reflects the ideals of that religion. The problem is that (Shia) Islam doesn't view the goodness of people as being based on what religion you follow, even if it happens to be Islam. In Islam, we have what is called the Fetrat (spiritual nature) and Tabiyat (animal nature). Every human being is born good, however, whether that person continues to evolve from this point or degrade depends on the struggle between these two sides, if the spiritual nature wins, then that person will be moral, ethical, good etc. regardless of him being atheist, Baha’i, Jew, Muslim or what not. If the Tabiyat side wins, or is dominant, then that person becomes power hungry, arrogant, and possibly evil even if he is Muslim and prays etc. In fact, being Muslim might even make him worse because he will turn religion into a tool for prestige and power just like what some of the Mullahs have done, esp in the IRI.

I believe this is an important concept to understand and how Islam or at least Shia Islam views good and evil. We are not Christians where we believe its Jesus that comes down and makes you good after you’ve been born out of sin, no, we are all born good, but staying good or being evil depends on the inner struggle which of course is influenced by your surroundings, your friends, the kinds of food you eat and a million other things.

Now, on to some of the important problems you raised:

1) Iran was colonized by the British in the South and the Russians from the North. Just because our leaders weren't white doesn't mean they weren't Western slaves. Furthermore, there are two types of colonization, 1) physical and 2) mental. The physical is what went on in most of the Arab world, where as we had it in a lesser form, but we went through 80 years of mental colonization by our previous leaders - a kind of mental colonization that no one in the Mid East faced.

But this is irrelevant at the moment, I will explain what I meant by colonialism in a bit. I'm sorry for the confusion.

2) I never talked about the 1953 coup.

3) In 1400 years of Shi`i history, there has been no such concept of Velayat-e Faqih-e Motlaqeh (Wilayat al-Faqih al-Mutlaqah). In fact, Shi`i scholars always shunned joining governments because all temporary governments were considered illegitimate unless ruled by an infallible Imam. Furthermore, all of the senior Marjas (grand ayatollahs) during and after Khomeini's time rejected the concept of clerical rule and saw it as an abomination. The followers of Khomeini consisted of lower class clergy and lay people. In fact, we have had many many senior clergy who have been jailed and have died in jail for opposing this concept. A few examples are Ayatollah Shariatmadari (who was a relative of mine), Ayatollah Muhammad Shirazi etc.. all died in house-arrest. The former was even assaulted physically by one of Khomeini's followers. I suggest you read Ayatollah Reza Sadr's "Dar zendan-e velayat-e faqih".

The point is that the traditional element of Shia scholarship has suffered just as much as the rest of the Iranian population at the hands of these ideologues. I mean I am sure you know who Ayatollah Abol Qasem Khoei was? He was probably the biggest Marja-e Taqleed of the 20th century who was a contemporary of Ayatollah Khomeini. Here is what he had to say about clerical rule, WF etc :

In the time of Ghayba (occultation of the 12th Imam) there is absolutely no evidence that proves the Wilaya (rulership/guardianship) of the Fuqahah (mullahs). Wilayah is only the prerogative of the Prophet and Imams. The Fuqahah not only don't have Wilayah in general affairs, but they also do not have any legal Wilayah in non-litigious affairs.

About Ayatollah Khomeini and Velayat-e Faqih, he said:

[Quoting Bani Sadr] : Someone came to Ayatollah Khoei and said that Aghah Khomeini is teaching Velayat-e Faqih (rulership/guardianship of the mollahs) in Najaf, Ayatollah Khoei replied: "Islam does not have velayat-e faqih, He (khomeini) is not even a mujtahid (ayatollah), what does he have to do with these things" ??

This kind of opinion on WF is shared by all top marjas today, ayatollah khorassani, tabrizi, bashir najafi, etc. etc.

So really, you can't generalize a minority. The message is clear, rulership of Mullahs is forbidden according to traditional shiism.

4) What I meant by colonialism is this: for over a thousand years, we had a long established peaceful and powerful Islamic institutions with clear cut sources of persuasive (not coercive)authority. Western colonialism destroyed these from the 18th to 20th centuries. Because of the destruction of these institutions, you now have a bunch of MINORITY but powerful and loud charlatans who are able to hijack Islam. It is the equivalent to destroying all medical institutions and universities in the West and then wondering why you have a rise in charlatan doctors all over the place who go around with no one to answer to. This being said, these minority crazies were initially created by the British known as Wahhabism, they were later on funded by the CIA and their institutions were expanded by the Saudis in order to fight the Soviet Union in the 70s and 80s. The problem we have today is British created sects, as well as the fact that now that the Soviets are gone, we are still stuck with crazy American made terrorists. But still, as I argued before, they are a minority in the Muslim world, but majority in the media (read my previous comment).

As for China and India, we are discussing religion here, not economics. China and India's economic growth has to do with special factors related to globalization, economics and politics. It has nothing to do with the topic of religion.

5) As for Zionists, I never talked about them, nor did I blame them. If they have done any damage, it is simply that they are a divine blessing for Mid East dictators to externalize their problems to this tiny piece of land. Iran's problems at the moment has nothing to do with this Arab-Jew conflict despite the Mollah slogans.

6) Again, we are speaking about religion. Christians follow Christ from 2000 years ago, Jews follow Moses from even longer than that, but this is their spiritual beliefs. The case was also the same for the Muslim world where for centuries they were the most civilized, more advanced nation on earth in terms of culture and technology. So the analogy that following a 7th century minded person does not work. The factors are economic and political and have very little to do with religion. Honestly, go give one of those jihahis a 1000$ a month salary with a car and he won't read a page of the Qur'an for the rest of his life, that's how insignificant the issue of Islam is with today's current problems. In the 60s we had communism and communists, now we have islamists, in a few decades we're going to have another trend. It's mostly political and economic.

Taymaz Garadjalou - reply to my questions.

I really appreciate you for taking the time to answer my question. Furthermore, I do also appreciate that you are trying your best to portray Islam in the best light as possible.

However, if you promise to keep it secrete and just between two of us. I have a confession to make. I have lived among Muslims, and have seen enough to not believe to most your replies.

You keep blaming the West, or the "Zionists" for Muslims ills and failures, to what you call "colonial times".  My friend, this diatribe does not hold water any more. 

1. Unlike Arab states around you, Iran was never colonialized by any foreign power. So what is stopping Iran from marching the avenue of civilized nation. 

2. You (with other Iranians) keep banging of the 1953 coup in Iran when Mossadeghe was replaced by the Shah. That was 55 years ago for god sake. Get over it my friend. Since then lot of water went under the bridge.

3. It was then. What about the 1979 revolution which brought the Mullahs to power, and with them fundamentalism and backwardness to Iran. Are you also going to blame others for the Iranians making the wrong choice of leadership. 

who is keeping these Akhoodah in power?. US forces?, Israeli forces? or Iran's own sons and daughters from the dreaded IRGC

4. Colonial scmi-lonial. it is all diatribe and whining. Why don't look at India, & China for example. These countries were also under the same colonial powers as Arab state. For more then 300 years the Brits had sucked the life out of them. Look where they are now. Right after the gained their independence, they let by-gone be by gone. Looked forward to what is best for their people then and there, and for the future - not whine for the past. Did the Chines and Hindus forgot?. No. But learned to forgive. transform defeat into victories. Forged economic and diplomatic with GB and see the result today.

So why the hell, Muslims can't follow the same path to success. No one in these day and age is going to pay homage to some Mullahs with 7th century mind set just to feed their hollow and useless ego. Just get over it. Lift yourself up, remove the dust, and pick the pieces and move forward. that what every one else does.

Iranian Muslim.

תןדה על העיברית

you reply has baffled me somewhat. On one side you are for peace, and live and let live. On the other side, I did not read your condemnation of radical Islam which seem to be the prevailing voice coming from Islam.

You seem to have lived in Israel. If that is the case, I am sure you also have experienced the concept of freedom of expression and religious practice without fear of persecution by others.Perhaps you wish to share it with others here

I will not dwell on every item on your long post. Just to the one to which you claim "hatred against Muslims". That is utterly not true, as I know there are good and honest Muslims and there are bad once. 

My main objective here is to wake up many decent Muslims like yourself, and let you know that, while you do preach for tolerance, there louder voices among  Muslims who preach for intolerance and they act on it with barbaric murder of innocent people from around the world.

From where I come from, they always teach you that poignant and important lesson in life. THERE ARE NO BAD FOLLOWERS, THERE ARE ONLY BAD LEADERS.

Now, in any organization,you can trace its cultural and mind set of its followers to its current and past leaders. Islam  as an organization, its members follow (and maybe to much) the teaching of its founder and leader - Mr. Muhammad. By pointing out this fact, it does not make us the non-Muslims haters of Islam. Rather, someone for god sake, needs to get up and raise his voice and tell Muslims all over the world that following Muhammad's teaching to the letter, for past 1350 years, had lead you down the hill toward more corruption, fear and oppression. 

As I have said it many many times, when good and well meaning Muslims will follow the path which adherences of other major religions had done so, by separating the messenger from his from his massage, then Islam will be lot more tolerant and pleasant to deal with.

Unfortunately, due the ingrained fear permeating throughout the Islamic world, where, oy vay, any inappropriate comment about this illiterate man can end some one life, there will never be any improvement to this miserable situation. 

Reply to DS

Thank you for the challenge DS, I will gladly accept it.

There is a plethora of peace-loving Muslims and scholars. Just a few in Iran are Ayatollah Yusuf Saanei, Ayatollah Mohammad Ibrahim Jannaati (again, not Ahmad Janati the politician), Ayatollah Montazeri, Ayatollah Kazimeini-Boroujerdi, Ayatollah Musavi Bojnourdi, Ayatollah Vahid Khorassani etc. The following that these scholars have basically constitute the vast VAST majority of Shi`ah following in Iran.

Even Ayatollah Kazimeini Boroujerdi (search him on Youtube for his speeches) who is extremely hostile towards IRI and "politicized Islam" is currently dying in house-arrest because he did not want to forsake his fight for human rights. In fact, although he is not as senior as Khorassani, or popular as Saanei (who some even call a hippie-Ayatollah) has more followers than Khamenei in Iran.In fact, CNN wanted to broadcast a special report on Boroujerdi and his plight, yet they cancelled the show for some minor report on Paris Hilton. This really comes to show the utter hypocrisy and cherry-picking by the Western media where they show all the extremists, but censor peace-loving human rights advocating Muslims.

I really understand your position and it isn't your fault, this is unfortunately the consequence of an all-encompassing powerful media that is run by fascists.

Even Ayatollah Ali Sistani of Iraq who basically more than half the Shia world follows is admired by everyone including the staunchest American neo-cons for his uncompromising peace-loving stance. In fact, they wanted to offer him the Nobel Peace Prize, but he refused without hesitation because as he said, the work he does is for the people and God, not for prizes.

Even in the Sunni world, you can observe the Rifaais in Syria, the Naqshbandis all over the Muslim world, the Chishtiya, the Shadhiliya, the Qaadiriyah and other Sunni spiritual groups who number millions upon millions are staunch peace advocates and do not believe in any of this political violence and human rights abuses made by the MINORITY groups like the Taliban, Wahhabis etc. These people are a minority in the Muslim world, yet they are a majority in the media! 

So yes, these are the fruits of our tree and they are very good. But I would like to add that this analogy or expression doesn't apply to human beings. Unfortunately, people can have the best ideology in the world, but if they are corrupt in the inside they will practice that ideology in a corrupt way.

Remember that religion is a MEANS to God, if you use religion as a means for power then naturally you will screw up and make a mess out of things like we see in our own country.

There is no god or supreme

There is no god or supreme being. I have believed in evolution. And that is that. Look at this clip
//youtube.com/watch?v=X8evsSNdXcs

this is exact my thought. It is funny but when you think about it.It is the truth

Cheap nonsense!

People like this guy who calls himself Mehdi-Mazloom who says he's a Jew (a backhanded insult to anyone who has at least been raised a Shia) should be ignored. Their illiterate waste-of-space junk should not even be dignified with a response. This is intellectual rubbish that shows the depth of ignorance of the so-called writer. Is the Talmud any more humanistic and modern than the Sharia? Is Torah with it’s a tooth for a tooth, eye for an eye directive any more full of love than Quran? Besides, Sharia is not a monolithic thing, differs from East Asia to Bosnia. And were the Muslims, with their Quran full of all that "Jew bashing", throughout the pre-modern era, in North Africa, in West Asia, under the Ottomans or the various caliphates, not a thousand times kinder and more tolerant of Jews than Christian Gentiles who kicked the Jews’ collective ass from Vladivostok to London and all points in between, raped their women and performed horrific pogroms each time the mood struck them? Stop judging an entire religion and culture by a narrow hateful interpretation. Your religion, the original lay-down-the-law-and-kick-their-butt-if-they-stray religion is full of passage of hatred too. You have your whackos too, they’re just not publicized in the mass media, because they perform their ugly violence against Arabs and their own people than in the US.

Persian, Iranian, Muslim, American...

Firstly, thanks Taymaz for your thoughtful response. Here are my two cents.

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I pray thrice a day like my parents and their parents before them.I fast from dawn until dusk one month a year for thirty days.I traveled to Arabia to walk around a black cube in the middle of the desert, and I had the time of my life.I read an old Arabic book, and come to my own conclusions about how to engage its passages. I wear modest clothes, I do not gamble, or consume alcohol or sleep about with women (or men, for that matter).I try not to lie, or speak ill of others, or lose my temper.
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I do these things partly because I was raised to do so and partly because I have come to some conclusions that they are the right things to do. I hardly know who Muhammad was or what he was truly like. I do not presume to judge him or his friends and relatives. I would object if people a thousand years from now passed judgments on my character on the basis of sayings about me compiled centuries after my death.  
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I read the collected narrations about Muhammad and his family.  Some are enlightening and some are disturbing, so I emulate the good and I try to avoid the evil.  I read the Qoran as well.  The Qoran, for someone like me who knows Arabic, can be inspiring at times, confusing at others, frightening at other times.  All in all, it's a book worth reading, worth putting on my shelf, and worth wafting over my head before I go on a trip the way grandmother used to do.  I think every understanding of religion is a human understanding, and so no one should impose their understanding on others.  I value the truth, which is why I do not support censorship. Though freedom allows a million falsehoods to emerge, only freedom can allow the truth to emerge as well.  I agree with Jefferson that the antidote to wrong speech is not censorship, but more speech.  Despite all of this, I still consider myself a proud Persian Iranian American Muslim who speaks Persian, Arabic and Hebrew, who acts in Shakespearean dramas, watches Arthur on PBS and eats yam-fries instead of the regular kind.   I believe in a two state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. That, and ( שלום ,עלינו ועל כל העולם.)
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I love the story of Karbala and I will tell it, in some rendition to my children.  Karbala is the story of a man who stood up to a tyrant and suffered for doing so.  If Hussein had been a Bahai and Karbala had been Isfahan, I would have found the story just as compelling. Though I do like the added bonus that Hussein called himself a Muslim just as I do, so I can attach myself to his character in the narrative.   I enjoy listening to the songs Shiahs sing about Hussein and Karbala. אדם לאדם זאב, as they say; bad things happen in our world, and it's not self-pity or victimhood to acknowledge injustice; there is nothing wrong with setting aside a just a few days a year to do nothing more than simply cry about it.  Occasional azadari is a great idea.
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There is absolutely no reason to purge my identity of a vision of Islam that is already tolerant, open-minded, and peace loving.  I will not decide who to be on the racist pretention that Arab is by definition bad and Persian is by definition good.  Plugging into the idiom of Islamic civilization makes it easier for me to understand where my heroes like Hafiz, Sa'di, Baba Taher and others were coming from.  Engaging with my Muslim identity helps me be a better Persian.  Was there coercion involved in the Islamication of Iran in the early days? I am sure there was, though it was not all coercion.  And even if it were, no one is coercing me now. I am free and living in the West.  For me, Islam means submitting myself to the truth as I understand it.  It means being intellectually honest and acting on my convictions.  Many people would argue that all of these characteristics make me a good man, but a bad Muslim. Sure I may not fit into many a rigid definition of what a Muslim is supposed to be, but I couldn't care less whether others thought I was a "real" Muslim or not. Most Iranian Muslims I know (including many quietist clerics) agree to varying degrees with this vision of easygoing Shiaism.  Few in the modern world have articulated this vision of Islam in a philosophically satisfying way, though Soroush is doing an admittedly good job. 
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I feel proud when I hear songs of the revolution, when I see my countrymen walking in the streets or marching off to defend our borders.  The wrong people got a hold of our revolution, the wrong people won out.  But that doesn't mean everyone who fought to overthrow the Shah was evil or misguided.  A lot of good people with good ideas fought and died for that revolution, and I will not ignore their sacrifice because things turned sour.  If I were living back in 79 (assuming I were a little braver, which is a big if!) I would have marched against the Shah too, I would have marched to battle too. I would have sung the songs and chanted the slogans.   The memory of the revolution deserves better than to be the sole property of theocrats.  It belongs to Muslim democrats like me, too. I would have gone and fought for a Muslim democracy, which is nothing more than a democracy where Muslims are not persecuted.  I intend to fight as hard for an Iran that respects human rights as I will against an attack on my country by foreigners.
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The hatred that exists against Muslims on this site is really astonishing. I have been quietly observing, for some time, some of the worst xenophobia from so-called "liberal" Iranians, who make blanket assumptions about anyone subscribing to a Muslim identity with nary a consideration of basic decency. 
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PS. Check out: the Muslim Network for Baha’i Rights at bahairights.org

Mazloom, good point, DO convert

You said:

"with little accountability to which Islam provide me as a men. With 4
wives to chose, With which one “tonight is the night”. Who would want
to resist these privileged life."

That sure beats your Jewish tradition of making a hole in a sheet and having sex through the hole a la Jewsih laws.

Listen, the laws written in ancient books were meant for primitive savages of thousands of years ago.

The Jewsih Torah and Thalmud by that reason is the most backward, savage oriented and has the most asinine God of all the other Abrahimic books.

I am sure that like all the Zionists quotes I gave you from Herzl and Zionist Congresses that you have not read yourself and were just following blindly, you probably have not read the laughable Torah. Would you like me to teach you some Torah and Thalmud? 

Taymaz, a tree is known by

Taymaz, a tree is known by the fruits it produces, one can write a long essay on the goodness of islam but the fact is its followers does'nt show it. I challenge u to pick up any out of the 80 odd islamic countries & check out their minority rights on paper as well as on ground, do this excercise to help urself gain clarity.

Point is simple , instead of quoting from the history , start showing ...

cheers

Answers to your questions!

Salam brother Mehdi! These are some very good questions you have asked. I thank you for bringing them up and God willing we can have a good discussion regarding some of these problems.

 1) It really depends which group you are with. Note that there isn’t a single group that we can essentialize whether they are Communists, Muslims, Zionists or Atheists. Naturally with any religion, depending on the time, period and circumstances you will find tolerant and non-tolerant groups. For example, under Tzarist Russia, Muslims were completely banned from approaching 30 miles of Grozny, the capital of Chechnya. If a Muslim was in that city he would have been literally decapitated by the Christian rulers. When the Portuguese city of Lisbon was reconquered by Christians under the “Reconquista”, the whole Muslim (as well as minority Jewish) population, i.e. around 200 000, was slaughtered until there was none left. Just a few years ago the Portuguese celebrated the conquest of Lisbon despite this massacre. However, during the Ummayads, Abbasids and even Ottomans, many Muslim scholars had ruled that if denouncing and insulting the Prophet Muhammad was part of a non-Muslim religion’s beliefs, then they were to be allowed to do so without any repercussions. This for example was a standard ruling by Shaf`is Muslims. Now obviously if you go to Waziristan you won’t have that luck, but again remember what I said;  it really depends where when and under what circumstances you’re in. You have to understand that a lot of these groups are products of British created Wahhabism as well as colonialism which destroyed the traditional peaceful Islamic religious institutions and authorities and gave way to a bunch of charlatans who ironically were expanded and funded by the CIA from the 50s to the 80s. However, if you are to go to other Muslim communities (such as my own) then yes you would have freedom to speak your mind, even to insult the Prophet if you really feel adamant about it. We would probably understand these feelings since today’s media is so relentless!

2) Lowest education, etc (this is true for the Arab world, not the entire Muslim world). Remember that these are products of war, colonialism and the destruction of most native institutions. However, if you study architecture you will notice that the Islamic world produced some of the most magnificent works of architecture this world has ever seen. So I don’t see any problems with that.

Furthermore, note that in Islam there is no distinction in terms of divineness between fe`el-e Khoda (action of God) and naghl-e Khoda (speech of God). The Qur’an for example is the speech of God, the way your cells work in your body are the acts of God. They are both considered divine, and studying either one of them is praiseworthy. I mean even in Islamic law, science is considered “hojjat” i.e. proof. If science says such and such thing is harmful to you, then automatically Islamic law makes that thing prohibited. Thus both are cherished by Islam and it would be wonderful for your children to study these areas.

As for suicide bombings, considering that these things started in the 1980s and the number of such operations has been around a 100 or so as opposed to 1.5 billion Muslims in the world, the probability of you becoming a suicide bomber is thus very low.

3) Again I don’t think it’s proper to essentialize all Muslim leaders. Just because CNN and Fox news cherry pick fanatics to show on TV doesn’t mean that they represent the entire Muslim world. Secondly, I think the idea of freedom of expression etc. are used duplicitously by many people, especially in the West. For example, you can say whatever you want and offend anyone but in return your opponents cannot say anything that attacks your values.

So really, I think these duplicitous slogans of “freedom of speech” are what we need to tackle first before accusing others of being intolerant.

4) “Shariah” is an abstract notion of what God wants from us. What we call Fiqh is the human interpretation of the LEGAL aspect of the Shari`ah. We have various hadiths from the Shi`ah Imams where they give different ages as minimum limits for marriage, some say 15, some 16, some 14 and some 10. Many ulema such as Ayatollah Muhammad Ibrahim Jannaati (not Ahmad Janati the politician!) have argued that what these various hadiths mean is that the circumstances for each girl or boy in terms of maturity differ - however this is to be decided by the parents. Some girls mature physically and mentally only at 17 or 18, therefore this is age they are allowed to get married (but again, this is decided by the family). However, some scholars have used the principle of “ihtiyat” (precaution) and have said the age limit is 10. This idea is only one amongst many, however it wasn’t disputed until recently since not long ago, the average age of a woman was much much shorter than today, therefore it would have been silly to get married at 20-25. It is very easy for us to be judgmental about other forms of morality and ethics, but remember that there is no universal notion of ethics amongst humans. As Nietzsche argued in his Genealogy of Morals, really what we have as “ethics” are relative/subjective and what we might see as disgusting in our present culture (as opposed to our past culture) is considered ordinary in other cultures.

Finally, in Islamic law there is a consensus that a girl cannot be married against her own free will. During the marriage procession, if she as the smallest sad expression, the person who is conducting the marriage is obliged by God to stop the marriage and not continue it. So there is no such thing as “forcing” one into marriage in Islam.  5) Killing her for such a thing is anti-Islamic and merits capital punishment. Although kissing before marriage is considered a sin in Islam, there is no prescribed punishment (i.e. this is called “hudud” in Islamic law) for such an act despite what Iran’s government does.

6) Those statistics you quoted is for the Arab world, not the entire Islamic world. Turkey, Iran, Indonesia etc. have good publishing records. This being said, I earlier on said that science is considered fe`el-e Khoda, i.e. act of God and it is just as rewarding to study it as one studies the Qur’an. As for anti-Islamic books, I suggest you read those as well to give you a different perspective as well as highlight some of the possible weak spots of your faith. It is only by criticizing our beliefs that we can reform and improve ourselves. I know various Iranian Muslims and scholars who personally encourage me to read anti-Islamic books in order to balance my beliefs, be aware of my short-comings and research and study to rectify these short-comings.

As for your comment on the Qur’an as being the perfect book that contains “all knowledge” what this is referring to is guidance (hedayat) and not how to make spaghetti.

7) I don’t know where you get the idea that Allah commands you to hate Jews and Christians. When the Qur’an talks about them, it praises them a lot and says if they do good deeds and keep to their beliefs they will enter Paradise. At some point when it does criticize them, this isn’t unique to them only. For every criticism the Qur’an makes of Jews and Christians, it makes 10 of them to Muslims, Arabs etc.8) No, Islam commands you to treat them with absolute respect even if they insult God and His prophets. We are to obey our parents on everything except if they ask us to stop praying.9) You are taught to live life and respect it, but you are also taught not to be a worldly materialistic person, you are also taught that death is a natural stage in life for all people and it is something we should not fear.10) No that is anti-Islamic. There is no such thing in Islam and those who do it do so because it is part of their culture, not Islam. Rape is a crime in Islam and it falls under the categories of “jarayim” i.e. crimes. You do not need “four witnesses” for that, all you need is to prove it one way or the other. What requires witnesses are “mahramaneh” (private) acts, such as adultery. Even so, the stipulations behind stoning to death are so great that it is impossible to implement it. This of course was done purposefully so as to show the badness of such an act, and not to implement it which is impossible to do if you were to follow the procedures and stipulations. In the whole 400-500 year history of the Ottoman Empire, only one woman was stoned to death and she was a Princess and it was done for political reasons (without regard to Islamic procedures). What Iran’s government does disregards all Islamic principles. 11) Those are the acts of dictatorships that try to externalize their problems in order to ward off domestic criticism. I don’t see what this has to do with Islam or any religion.12) No you are going to be discouraged because Islamic law makes it very difficult for you to have more than one wife. You have to provide and treat them all equally, and according to most scholars, you need the permission of your previous wives. Note that the law of 4 wives was not a permission, but a restriction for Arabs who used to have 100s of wives and married amongst their sisters and mothers. Islam was not a revolutionary religion, but it was there to reform as much its context allowed it to. It could not ban polygamy, but it heavily restricted it which is why less than 1% of the Muslim world has more than one wife.13) Of course, we have plenty of hadiths from the Prophet and the 6th Imam, Imam Ja`far al-Sadiq that asked Iranians to appreciate their culture and celebrate Nowrooz. So there is no problem about adhering to your culture and studying it.

14) Mecca and Madina are under the control of Wahhabis who were created by the British to undermine the Ottomans. Not only is the Bible forbidden, but all other non-Wahhabi Muslim books are forbidden, including all Shi`ah books. So we are all in this together, Muslim and non-Muslim alike.

I hope I answered you questions all right and please forgive me for any mistake that I made or if I said anything offensive to you. We are all Iranian here and I think this should be the starting point for all of us, Muslim and non-Muslim alike to discuss our national issues respectfully and academically.

Dear anonymous 500, Since

Dear anonymous 500, Since when has stating truth become spreading hatred. What Mr Mazloom wrote has been happening in the past & is also the present state of affairs of muslims & this is as per the design. You want people to be politically correct & not factually correct, so true for most of the faithfulls.

Agree other religions too have lot of BS, but they have been reformed or defanged by education,govts & society itself across the world. On the contrary primitiveness & barbarity of islam is protected & encouraged by govts/mullahs & people like you in the name of false god & false prophet

cheers

Re:Iranian revert!

Congratulation on your choice.I believe you made a right choice.I do not practice a religion,but when I compare Islam with other religions,I find out there is a lot of confusion and divisions in Christianity.Jews believe that they are the true children of God ,therefore they have the right to abuse people from other faith.Hindus have thousands of Gods.They worship anything from rats to elephants to tigers to cows.Buddhist believe in trivial and are too superstitious.Zoroastrian religion may have been good for 5000 years ago.Good thoughts,good deeds and good behaviors are good ,but today's world is more complex.Peace on Earth

Children of lesser God!

I have noticed that the Jews consider themselves to be children of God.I want to know what they think about people from other religions and faiths.Do they beleive they are less worthed,or do they have the right to abuse them?

Mehdi Mazloom

Are yiou going on another mambar? I give you 5 RIALS to go somewhere else and not preach on iranian.com.

Mirror?

I have never seen Muslims bother insulting your religious beliefs. All I see is Nazi charactedred individuals who use religion as a way to spread hatred and fight among people, by demonizing and falsehood. You should consider the consequences of your action a bit instead of worrying about others.

Mehdi - here we go again

You wrote:

Why are you so obsessed with spreading hatred and insult

All we are doing is to put the mirror in front of many educated Muslims to show them the ugly picture of Islamists

Anonymous500 - Answer your qustions.

you wrote:

Are you a person of Jewish faith? - Yes I am

If yes, how do you bring upon
yourself to be so childishly disrespectuful to another faith and, in
this case, Islam?

Indeed, it would have been a childish play, had myself not experienced its wrath and the dihimmi status which we endured while living among Muslims.

Do you know with what level of love and respect the Koran addresses Moses, Jesus, Noah, Lot, Daivd or Abrham?

Sorry khanom/agha. That question would most likely go by those western gullible, who have not experienced the kind of treatment, and humiliation to which Muslims accord to the minorities living among them.But nnot to some of us who know it better.

Please, with all due respect, spare me the grief (kosseh she-rri). Koran does not extend any love or respect to ANYONE whom does not follow Muhammad's barbaric teachings w/o questions.

This is a typical reply one gets whenever the subject of Muhammad comes up. They are all designed to plaster non-Muslims to prevent them from criticizing Muhammad (we respect your prophets, why don't you reciprocate the same to our prophet?)

My good man / woman. innocent People are dying every day because of this man's barbaric conduct and teaching.

What other reasons these backward Mullahs in Tehran have for  "wiping an nation of 7 million people, other then RELIGION.They couldn't care less about the Arab & Sunni Palestinians, who they use as cover for their own hatred of Jews.

finally, You are welcome to post anything positive spin on your holy Quran. I don't give a rat ass to any book, including my own religious one, which teach 8 or 9 year old children that non-believers are Apes and Pig. And by name of Allah all non-believers should be vanquished.

Do I hate Muslims. - read my next blg and judge it for yours

Zion, spoken just like a person who has a holy book full of hate

rape, slavery, violence and collective punishmend, child stoning and other silly things.

I would not throw stones if I were you. This is not ancient Israel.

Mehdi, are you saying Jews and Muslims are equally respectable?

in religion and their culture do you consider them equal? Do you have respect for all humans or does that respect depend on one's ethnicity, culture or religion?

If it does depend, don't bother replying to this, everyone will know what kind of extreme khod-khah and khod-parasts you are.

abarmard

you wrote:

in the other site, you are saying that my God is better than yours

Do you mind to post the link to that post where I wrote these exact words. I will be cuirious to read.

mola akga

I guest, any circumcised Moishe will not get the previlage of 4 (viggis) every night to serve the man's pleasure.

Another hate campaign by ZioNazis

What is in it for you guys? Why do you love people fighting over religion? Why are you so obsessed with spreading hatred and insults? Do you think if you write pages and pages of falsehood eventually people will believe it? Why don't you put 15 minutes into writing something that brings people together instead of breaking them apart? Do you work for weapons manufacturers or something? What's in this hate campaign for you?

First things first

Anonymous500,

This is a bit too much coming from a religion whose holy book, the Koran, is filled with Jew bashing and childish pathetic allegations against Jews.

Moses is venerated as a muslim, based on bizarre dogmas coming out of the amalgam of heretical sects of Christianity and Arab paganism. So is Abraham, or other historical or mythical figures in Judaism.
I hardly call this veneration. Quite the opposite actually.

I don`t personally engage in bashing other religions, including Islam. I have my own opinions about it and am very sensitive against excuses of censorship of free speech waged under its banner. I only wanted to remind you that if you have any complaints, maybe you should address it to you holy book first.

A Question Fro Mr. Mazloom

Mr. Mehdi Mazloom:

This is a sincere question to you and please give me an honest answer. Are you a person of Jewish faith? If yes, how do you bring upon yourself to be so childishly disrespectuful to another faith and, in this case, Islam?

Do you know with what level of love and respect the Koran addresses Moses, Jesus, Noah, Lot, Daivd or Abrham?

For example in the vernacular of the Koran, Moses is one of the Three Grand Prophets (Ulol Azm), portrayed as Kalim Allah (The wold of God); Jesus, the Chirst, is portayed as the Rouh Allah (the Spirit of God); Muhammad is portrayed as Rasul Allah (the Messneger of Allah), Abrham is portarayed as Hanif, one to whom Allah vouchsafed the essence of the three Grand Religions, Judiasm, Christianity and Islam that the likes of Louis Massignon, one of the grand French mystics and scholars of Islam at the Sorbonne, characterized as Religiosn in the line of Abraham.

There are great Jewish Kabbalists and Christian Mystics and learned men and women who have followed suit as for example in Spain during Islam's Golden Age.

In addition, the Koran implores Muslims to love and respect all these prophets and especially Mosesa and Jesus. In Persian we call these noble prophets Musa and Isaa. These are the names that we Iranians cherish and historically have given to our sons. I am sure that if you ask any Iranisn, he or she will agree with me that we do have our Muslim uncles, fathers and brothers with these names, Agha Musa, Asgha Isa.

The Koran also bers witness to the fact that Jesus was indeed the Christ whose message was one of peace and love for humanity, but rejects the idea that he was curisfied saying that the one who was crusified was not Jesus, the Christ, for Allah would not allow the beloved Jesus to suffer such an excrutiating death.

However, the Koran bears witness to Jesus's miracelous birth thus it validates the chastity, honor and integrity of Maryam, the mother of the Jesus, and speakes on her behalf with grace and tender. The same goes for Moses.

How in the world, a man who calls himself Mehdi Mazloom (The Innocent Mehdi), can write such childish gabildigook about another faith? Islam is a World Religion with 14 centuries of high culture and sublime civilizational contribution to Humanity.

There is no doubt that there are bad things that you could find in every organized religions, or every culture and every country. But demonizing a Grand Religion like Islam in such childish manner hardly wins you much respect and sympathey on this BB.

Iranian Revert

I am an Iranian revert to Islam. After a lot of soul searching and a few trips to Iran, I am proud to call myself a Muslim!

As I have said in my last comment

in the other site, you are saying that my God is better than yours. Get out of your high horse and realize that people are people and all religions have been written thousands of years ago and are full of crab.

For your info, Judaism and Islam are about ninety percent similar. And the people are from the same tribe, unlike the Iranians.

Zion kocholo, when the mullah is about to convert you to Islam

don't forget 2 things:

1. Don't let them change your name

2. Don't let them check to see if you are circumcised. It may have unwanted consequences for you. I know a good mullah who would not violate you.

* Am I going to enjoy the

* Am I going to enjoy the freedom to engage in an open, and free dialog about Islam, much like non-Muslims do with their respective religions.

Answer: No

If I do, will I be accused of blasphemy, and face beheading,?

Answer: Yes

* With lowest education per capita among Arab-Islamic populations.

Will my children be attending universities to learn Architecture & Engineering, to erect buildings, and machinery. Or become purveyors of Car bombs & suicide bombers.

Answer: Purveyors of car bombs & suicide bombers.

* I have been taught that, freedom of expression, and one's thoughts, are fundamentals to human endeavor.

Who taught you that?

So why these attributes are labeled “Anti-Islamic” by Muslim leaders.

Answer: Because Mulsim leaders did not teach you that. Someone else have taught you that and we have no idea who that is

* My beautiful daughter had just turned 8 years old.

Will I be expected to pledge her to marry her cousin when she is 13 years old. Or will she be forced to marry one of my 55 year old relatives as his 4th wife.

Answer: You will be expected to pledge her to marry her cousin when she is 13 years old. Or she will be forced to marry one of your 55 year old relatives as his 4th wife.

* My teen aged daughter did what every young adult of her age does naturally around the world. She fell in love with her high school sweetheart. Recently, she was seen kissing her boyfriend.

As result, will I be expected to put the family honour ahead of my own daughter's life. Look the other way, when my wife pins her down, while one of my sons chocks my own flesh and blood daughter to death, while she is asleep

Answer: You will be expected to put the family honor ahead of your own daughter's life. Look the other way, when your wife pins her down, while one of your sons chokes your own flesh and blood to death, while she is asleep.

*The fact is, Islamic countries publish the lowest number of books per capita then anywhere else.

Will I be allowed to read literature published by the infidels, to expand my intellectual horizon, without being accused as "traitor to my religion" ?.

Answer: You will not be allowed to read literature published by the infidels, to expand your intellectual horizon, without being accused as "traitor to your religion".

Or will I be told. “No need for Math or Science books. Qur'an is the perfect book, where you get ALL your knowledge from".

Answer: You will be told, "no need for math or science books. Qur'an is the perfect book, where you get ALL your knowledge from".

* Mosques are said to be places of inspiration, enlightenment, and solitude with Allah.

Will I hear from my Imam (or Mullah), about the inferiority of Judaism and Christianity, whom, Allah commands me to hate – While, all I read in the Qur'an, are those tenants and passages copied from the Old, and New Testaments.

Answer: You will hear from your Imam (or Mullah), about the inferiority of Judaims and Christianity, whom, Allah commands your to hate - While, all you read in the Qu'ran, are those tenants and passages copied from the Old, and New Testanments.

* Speaking of “inferiority of the non-believers” . Will I be expected to treat those non-Muslim members of my own family, also as “inferiors“?

Answer: You will be expetced to treat those non-Muslims members of your own family, also as "inferiors".

* While in Mosque, are my children going to learn about the beauty and sanctity of life, or the glory of death, by homicide bombing of innocent people. Because MY ALLAH, has commanded us so.

Answer: Glory of death, by homicide bombing of innocent people. Because YOUR ALLAH, has commanded us so.

* On the way home, after Friday payers.

Am I going to be forced to watch a frail woman, being stoned to death in the city center, because she was raped by her Brother-in Law, and became pregnant. Killed, only to save the family honour, while the rapist is never charged of any crimes.

Answer: You will be forced to watch a frail woman, being stoned to death in the city center, because she was raped by her Brother-in Law, and became pregnant. Killed, only to save the family honour, while the rapist is never charged of any crimes.

* Am I going to see, and hear on the daily evening news, and commentaries on TV that, all our social, educational & economical ills, are the fault of the Americans and Jews?. With no offer of self accountability for ones own actions and deeds.

Answer: You are going to see, and hear on the daily evening news, and commentaries on TV that, all our social, educational & economical ills, are the fault of the Americans and Jews. With no offer of self accountability for ones own actions and deeds.

* Am I going to be told by my Imam, to marry more wives, and have 24 - 30 children. Not worrying about how to feed, dress and educate them. Because - Allah will do it for me.

Answer: You are going to be told by your Imam, to marry more wives, and have 24 - 30 children. Not worrying about how to feed, dress and educate them. Because - Allah will do it for me.

* After all, countries throughout the Middle East, have had rich history, own distinct cultural, and languages, other then Arabic, long Before Islam was introduced.

Will I be able to explore those pre-Islamic eras, to know more about myself. Or will I be told. Islam is your past. Islam is your present. And Islam will be your future.

Answer: You will not be able to explore those pre-Islamic eras, to know more about myself. You will be told Islam is your past, Islam is your present And Islam will be your future.

* I am constantly reminded that, Islam reverses and accepts Jews and Christians prophets in Islam as well. However, those prophets messages received from Allah are enshrined in the Old and New Testaments.

So...... why these holy books are forbidden in the place where they should be accepted – Mecca & Madinah.

Answer: Those holy books are forbidden in Mecca & Madinah.

Any other questions?