LETS ASSUME

Excellent reading MAZLOOM!

You're finally learning something by reading REAL history instead of your make believe nonsense!

Finally you read the UN resolution, at least the one I quoted for you regarding the inadmisibility of acquistion of land by force, to refute your stated law of savages! I quoted you this to refute your statement : "Israel got those lands in 1967 when it felt in danger, so it is a prize to keep!" But, you still don't seem to recognize that this resolution was written for Israeli aggression and land theft of 1967, do you? I mean, can you be THAT SLOW for real??!

I mean, don't you even understand that in addition to stealing Palestinian homes and gardens, Israel has STOLEN land from all its neighbors, Lebanon, Syria and Jordan by aggression?

NOVEMBER 22, 1967

The Security Council,

Expressing its continuing concern with the grave situation in the Middle East,

Emphasizing the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by
war and the need to work for a just and lasting peace in which every
State in the area can live in security,

Affirms that the fulfillment of Charter
principles requires the establishment of a just and lasting peace in
the Middle East which should include the application of both the
following principles:

Withdrawal of Israeli armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict;

There was never a state called Palestine.

Once again, get off your self delusional mantra. I have already showed you that by simple review of your own sources, it is obvious that yourself had not read any of them before posting them as credible reference.

Case in point:

Here is the complet text of the UNR 242:

The Security Council,

Expressing its continuing concern with the grave situation in the Middle East,

Emphasizing the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by
war and the need to work for a just and lasting peace in which every
State in the area can live in security,

Emphasizing further that all Member States in their acceptance of
the Charter of the United Nations have undertaken a commitment to act
in accordance with Article 2 of the Charter,

Affirms that the fulfillment of Charter
principles requires the establishment of a just and lasting peace in
the Middle East which should include the application of both the
following principles:

Withdrawal of Israeli armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict;

Termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for
and acknowledgement of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and
political independence of every State in the area and their right to
live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats
or acts of force;

Affirms further the necessity

For guaranteeing freedom of navigation through international waterways in the area;

For achieving a just settlement of the refugee problem;

For guaranteeing the territorial inviolability and political
independence of every State in the area, through measures including the
establishment of demilitarized zones;

Requests the Secretary General to designate a Special Representative
to proceed to the Middle East to establish and maintain contacts with
the States concerned in order to promote agreement and assist efforts
to achieve a peaceful and accepted settlement in accordance with the
provisions and principles in this resolution;

Requests the Secretary-General to report to the Security Council on
the progress of the efforts of the Special Representative as soon as
possible.

Arabs never accepted the provisions made in those conditions which I highlighted. So how the hell do you expect Israel to accept Arab's only condition is the complete destruction of Israel.

Finally, drill it in your head my good man.

THERE HAVE NEVER EVER BEEN SUCH A STATE CALLED  "PALESTINE" INHABITED BY MUSLIMS CALLING THEMSELVES PALESTINIANS.

These Arabs took that name only after 1967. presumably to render themselves (falsly) as ancient groups. 

Lovely how ZioNazis pick and choose as they wish

They all seem to only see what they want to see and just completely refuse to see the rest! Based on what you are saying, Israel should be the most loved country in the world. It is not! It is the second most resented country in the world, trailing your most hated IRI!

There never was a country

There never was a country such as Palestine... Jaleho, Akhi. There are no such thing as "muslim lands". All those lands belonged to Christians or Jews taken by Islamic jihadist in the 7th century. What goes around comes around.

UN should have never intervened in the affairs of other countries. UN is a failed institution and I hope it is dissolved in a few years.

Abarmad

I was discussing the concept of Occupation, the way it is manifested and interpreted by individuals.

At the same time, put the mirror in front of some of those pundits who harp on Israel "occupying" Palestinian land. To demonstrate that, themselves are worse occupiers of all - other people's mind heard and freedom - not only piece of land.

jaleho - got off the foggy forrest.

The fact that you have filled this tread with what you call "facts",it does not mean they are indeed facts. Either out of ignorance of malice you omit few important details.

First. Yes the region WAS called "Palestine", and yes people were living there all alone. What you seem to miss is. Up until 1967, those Arabs never called themselves "Palestinians". Rather they described themselves as merely Arabs.

It was only after 1967 when these Arabs came under Israeli rule, then
someone came up with an ingenious idea, call them "Palestinians", so gullible like you
will fall in their trap of "ancient societies".

Contrary to that, back 2000 years ago,  there was a state of Israel, and there were "Israelites, who's language was today's ancient Hebrew, and Jews living in same area where modern Israel exist. The same state, same language and same religion. in 73 AD they were forced out iof the land by the Roman Empire. Since then Jews never ever forgot nor given up hope to some day return home, and re-build their country to its former glory.

The fact is, Jews are one who built Jerusalem, not the Christian, and definitely not the Muslims. Their history is carved on every stone in that city and its surroundings. Jew were twice evicted (543 BCE & 73 ACE) from their homeland. They owe a great deal to Great Persian ruler Cyrus II for allowing them to return back to and rebuilt their state until the Roman came. . 

were If people like you refuse to believe or respect jews presence in that region, so what?, who gives a rat ass my friend. Fortuantly there are eough people in this world who believe to the evidence given in the Old testamond and New one, which provide ample support t Jews rightful place in today's Israel.

You can not live in mud houses for "thousands of years". Most of the Arab houses in Israel WERE such houses. I know that because I have seen many such "ancient houses".

On other issues, I have already answered them on the other thread. I am not going to waste precious real estate here on this thread.

Secondly, on the original post, I was trying to explain real causes of the conflict. Highlight the intolerance from the same Arabs. 

And Mazloom, you said

"Jews,Christians, & Muslims have lived in these region for thousands
of years. Jews and Christians somehow have managed to find a silver
path to live side by side in peace and harmony."

Just becasue NOW you have to suck up to Christian Americans  who are keeping the illegitimate state of Israel politically, militarily and by their charity , you should not make funny statements like above!

Assuming that you have forgotten that it were the CHRISTIANS who according to you burned 6 million Jews, assuming that you have forgetten that it were the anti-Semite CHRISTIANS that for centuries have treated Jews like dogs....you should not forget that it were the Muslims and in particular Muslim Palestinians who gave refuge to Jews when Jews were treted like dirt by European Chirstians!

As far as your other bogus  make believe story of Christians living in peace with Jews in Palestine after the creation of Israel.... I guess you just gotta read some books of Christian Palestinians like Eward Said to understand how ridiculous your statement was!

Christians Palestinian have suffered and hate the Israelis as much as the Muslim Palestinian. The 20% vibrant population of Christians have been kicked and displaced by Zionist thieves to a vanishing 2% now and even their reliogious practices in Bethlehem is constantly interrupted by Israeli brutes!

See how easy it is to repeat FACTS

As easy as you repeat your lies! 

//iranian.com/main/2008/things-have-chang...

Israel NEVER sought Justice!
by Jaleho on Thu Jun 05, 2008 08:40 PM CDT

Fariba wrote:

"The Jewish people lived in Palestine 2000 years ago. It is understandable that, in their desperate search for safety and security, they wanted to return to this land, especially after the Holocaust."

That is the funny reasoning the Zionists give to Americans who don't know real history of Zionism and creation of Israel and hope people would accept it as a FACT.

First, the ancient Palestine, the land of Canaan, has been inhabited by many other groups, prior and after the Jewish kingdom: Greeks, Hebrews, Christians, Pagans, Persians, Arabs, and old Canaanite tribes. In that 5000 years, Jewish kingdom of David and Soloman only lasted 73 years!! Even if you consider the entire on-off Jewish kingdom from conquest of David to fall of Judah (1000BC-586BC), you get about 400 years. Somehow, the present day Zionist made that more important than 1300 years of CONSECUTIVE occupation of the land by Muslim and Christian Palestinians, and think the repetition of that absurd Jewish claim in US congress and US media actually gives the jews a RIGHT to other people's land. That is as absurd a basis for land claim as is the God's promise to his chosen favorites.

Secondly, Herzl (father of modern Zionism) was considering some land in either Palestine -Or-ARGENTINE for a Jewish State.


See, Zionism was a racist scheme born at the end of 19th century, early 20th century, which is historically the period of colonialism and settlements. Its purpose was no different than European settlers in colonial regions that reached Africa, Asia, and Latin America. And, like other colonial cases, it was the poor and disadvantage Jews who were supposed to go first and do the dirty work. {called Society of Jews}. I will quote for you from the article of Herzl in which he proposes the idea of "The Jewish State" in 1896 for the first time:

"The plan : The whole plan is in its essence perfectly simple, as it must necessarily be if it is to come within the comprehension of all. Let the sovereignty be granted to us over a portion of the globe large enough to satisfy the rightful requirement of a nation; the rest we shall manage ourselves. The creation of a new state is neither ridiculous nor impossible.....The government of all countries scourged by anti-Semitism will be keenly interested in assisting us to obtain the sovereignty we want. { can you see how ironically anti-Semitism is similar to Zionism in principle, and is being used to create it?! i.e., let's separate European Jews and send them away, rather than change individual country's anti-Semitic practices; let alone that the Jews who lived in Palestine for centuries, did equally well with Muslims and Christians there. }

...The plan, simple in design, but complicated in execution, will be carried out by two agencies: The Society of Jews and The Jewish Company
...We must not imagine the departure of Jews to be a sudden one. It will be gradual,{but} continuous, and will cover many decades ... The emigrants lowest in economic scale will be slowly followed by those of higher grade...

...Should the powers {in this case Britain, which was the mother of many other colonies, and the superpower du jour, the same role Israel sees in US now} declare themselves willing to admit our sovereignty over a neutral piece of land, then the Society {of Jews} will enter into negotiations for the possession of this land. Here two territories comes under consideration, Palestine and Argentine. In both countries important experiments in colonization have been made, though on the mistaken principle of a gradual infiltration of Jews. An infiltration is bound to end badly. It continues till the inevitable moment when the native population feels itself threatened, and forces the government to stop a further influx of Jews. Immigration is consequently futile unless we have the sovereign right to continue such immigration..."

As you see that holocaust was just a later EXCUSE to complete colonization of Palestine, which was the clear objective of the Zionist movement from 1896.

Later, in The Biltmore Program- Towards a Jewish State ( May,11,1942), Ben Gurion went to US, organizing American Zionists to reformulate this forceful Jewish immigration using the Nazi persecution as the pretext to continue Herzl recipe of 1896!! This was followed by the recommendations of the Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry (1946), where the jews took only its 6th recommendation seriously: more massive Jewish immigration without native acquiescence. They discarded the part that prohibited the Jewish demand of forceful immigration to create a Jewish majority!

So, there was no original justice in mind in the beginning that you think has backfired now!
And, there's no good intention from either Israelis or Americans who have extended the "peace process" just to give Israel enough time to gobble up as much of Palestine as they can.

One thing that Herzl didn't know back in 1896 is that colonialism and apartheid would DIE in the 20th century. Israel and Zionism , as the last pillars of it will follow suit. That's why everyone talks so nervously about EXISTENCE of illegitimate state of Israel, and talks about 60 years as if it the most important part of the 5000 year history of that region! That 60 years is just a historical BLINK, typical of all historical aberrations, and will be at most another blink before it disappears in the dust bin of time by history's mandate. South African racists spoke with no less of an arrogance than Israelis today.

More of REAL UN documents to prove you wrong

//iranian.com/main/news/2008/05/12/us-dow...

Be Ashamed of Israel
by Jaleho on Wed May 14, 2008 02:24 PM CDT

Mr. Mazloom, much to your chagrin Palestinians DO EXIST, and they have existed for thousands of years. They are the people who lived in Palestine, doh!

Look, I give you the exact historical documents which you can look up, and credible links to back my words. You do the same instead of empty erroneous slogans please.

Concerning the claim that Jews only respected parts of the international agreement to further their illegitimate grip over the land of others...Ben Gurion went to NY in 1942 (Biltmore Program), to reformulate the Zionist original plan of colonization of Palestine. The American Zionist used the WWII as a foundation to open Palestine to unlimited Jewish immigration (playing MAZLOOM), hence creating a Jewish majority in Palestine, despite the objections of the native Palestinians. But, the Jews did not even adhere to the PRO-JEWISH recommendations of the Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry which followed by their push in the UN:

The Anglo_American Committee of Inquiry after WW2:
Recommendations and Comments (May, 1, 1946) Its recommendations (too long for the whole thing, but here's the essence):
The European Problem, NO.1: ...Countries other than Palestine gave no hope of substantial assistance in finding homes for Jews wishing or impelled to leave Europe. But, Palestine alone cannot meet the emigration needs of the Jewish victims of Nazi persecutions; the whole world shares the responsibility for them and the resettlement of all "displaced persons" {Ironical that Palestine took the burden(by force), and Israel remains the one country in the world which doesn't want to address the resettlement of 4 million Palestinian "displaced persons"}...
Frankly, In our view the mass emigration of all European Jews would be of service neither to the Jews themselves nor to Europe. Every effort should be made to enable the Jews to rebuild their shattered communities...

Refugee Immigration into Palestine, No.2: We recommend that (a)100,000 certificates be immediately authorized for the admission into Palestine of Jews who have been the victims of Nazi persecution...

Principle of Government: No Arab, No Jewish State,
No. 3: ...(1) The Jew shall not dominate Arab, and Arab shall not dominate Jew in Palestine. (2)That Palestine shall be neither a Jewish state nor an Arab state. (3) That the form of government ultimately to be established, shall under international guarantees, fully protect the interest in the Holy Land of Christendom and of the Moslem and Jewish faiths...
Mandate and UN Trusteeship, No.4: ...the hostility between Jews and Arabs, and the determination of each to achieve domination, if necessary by violence, makes it certain that, now and for some time to come, any attempt to establish an independent Palestinian state or an independent Palestinian states would result in a civil strife such as might threaten the peace of the world.We therefore recommend that, until the hostility disappears,
The government of Palestine be continued as at present under {British} mandate pending the execution of a trusteeship agreement under the United Nations...

Equity of Standards: No.5: ...in spirit of No3., the mandatory should proclaim the principle that Arab economic, educational and political advancement in Palestine is of equal importance with that of the Jews; and should at once bridge the gap which now exists and raise the Arab standard of living to that of the Jew...

Further Immigration Policy: No.6:...We reject the view that there shall be no further Jewish immigration into Palestine without Arab acquiescence {read NO.1 once more}, a view which would result in Arab dominating the Jew.
We also reject the insistent Jewish demand that forced Jewish immigration must proceed apace in order to produce as quickly as possible a Jewish majority and a Jewish State. The well-being of the Jews must not be subordinated to that of Arabs, nor that of Arabs to the Jews.....
---------------------------------------------------------
As you see again, the only part from this recommendations taken by Zionists were allowance for further Jewish immigration, and a hold off on the independent Palestinian State. The Jewish terrorist groups like Hagana and Irgun led by terrorists like Menachen Begin, bragged about their brutalities (like the massacre of Deir Yassin in 1948,) which " drove fear and panic in Arab populations, and led to the flight of unarmed civilians from their homes", WHICH ISRAELIS STOLE. Sorry you don't like to confront that FACT.

It took Zionists only one year from preventing an Independent Palestinian State, to be bold enough to ask creation of a Jewish State alongside a Palestinian State. A year later, the Partition resolution 181, Nov. 1947 was passed. Its major four points :
1. The Mandate for Palestine shall terminate...
2. Armed forces of the mandatory Power shall progressively withdrawn from Palestine...
3. Independent Arab and Jewish States and the Special International Regime for the City of Jerusalem...{The complete occupation of it has always been the desire of Zionists as the capital of the Greater Israel}..
4. {Transitional period}

As we can see from your post, you seem to be a "good Israeli" in that you refer to resolution 181 remembering only the independent Jewish part, and forgetting COMPLETELY the Palestinian state. That, despite the article you're referring to ends with the following statement:"IN the declaration concerning the Arab State, the words "by an Arab in the Jewish State" should be replaced by the word "by a Jew in the Arab State."

And Mr. Mazloom, you called my quote from UN articles as "Rubbish", then wrote the following rubbish yourself:

"International law allows the retention of land conquered in war, while that country was defending itself. There are enough documentary and on film evidence to show that, in 1948 war, Israel was defending itself from attack made by 6 Arab nations. That is the reason why no one ever tried to force them to give it back. Since the land was not part of a sovereign and legitimate country, Israel has kept it."

Again you choose to ignore the most famous of all the UN Resolutions on Arab-Israeli wars, Resolution 242, which starts as follows: "EMPHASIZING the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war...."

I will not argue further with you unless you state a valid reference to what you're talking about. And "valid reference" would not include the propaganda MOVIES the types of Spielberg propaganda, or the cry and distort "rubbish" of the FOX New. It must be HISTORICAL DOCUMENT, even if it is the FLAWED documents written and forced by the VICTORS of the WWII.

Mehdi, to correct your concocted history

I have tried in the past to type REAL documents. Since you repeat your nonsense, I'll just copy the same posts for you, maybe you can read and answer them rather than trying to repeat a lie until people automatically believe you!

//iranian.com/main/news/2008/05/12/us-dow...

Mehdi, be ashamed of Israel instead
by Jaleho on Tue May 13, 2008 10:28 PM CDT

You wrote : "Back in 1947 UN (Resolution 181) had proposed to divide the land such that each ethnic and religious group will have its own sovereignty. Jews agreed, Arab did not. Instead they wanted it all. Went to war and lost that war (and many more), and paid the price for the belligerence."

First of all, Jews have always accepted only the part of international agreements which has been useful for them, and disregarded the rest of it which pertained to the Palestinian rights. That is the case in the precursors to the 181 Resolution, the Balfour Agreement and the Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry of 1946, although all of them have been biased AGAINST the Palestinians whose land was being STOLEN to create a Jewish State.

Second, from the very beginning, the Zionist wanted to gobble up the entire Palestine although in 1948 they only had 7% of the land. For example Ben Gurion in an internal discussion as early as 1938 stated :" after we become a strong force as a result of the creation of a state, we shall abolish partition and expand into the whole of Palestine." And After they happily celebrated the creation and RECOGNITION of Israel, then Menachem Begin declared in 1948: " The partition of the homeland is illegal. It will never be recognized. The signature of institutions and individuals of partition agreement are invalid. It will not bind the Jewish people. Jerusalem was and forever be our capital. Eretz Israel will be restored to the people of Israel, All of it. And forever." Like I said, they only accepted the parts of the international agreements that benefited them, and threw away the rest.

Third, you seem to make your own rule of jungle in your statement above "...they lost the war and they paid the price..." The same UN institution that gave Israel's recognition (which must be null since Israel DID Not accept the conditions under which it was created out of other people's land), the same UN explicitly prohibits "acquisition of land by force", but you seem not to like any of the UN rule which goes against Israel, ha?

Here's a one page history to correct your mehdi-mazloom-make-believe history. You can also click on top of the page-"The origin of the Palestine-Israel conflict"- to get an expanded version; still a short few page booklet which has answer to FAQ that I am sure you usually would give the wrong answer to!

//www.ifamericansknew.org/history/

As far as you being proud of Israel for Israel's per capita GDP and its accomplishments. First, Israel is founded on stolen land and blood of the native people of that land. Second, it has become what it is thanks to CHARITY and huge donation of the west and the US which have kept Israel as a military base in the Middle East in order to steal the resources of the region. Here's how much the five million Jews of Israel have gotten since 1973 from American taxpayers, it is in $Trillion range:

//www.csmonitor.com/2002/1209/p16s01-wmgn.htm...

Besides, if you're so proud of Israel's per capita GDP, why do you think they are still begging the US for so much DONATION every year:

//www.ifamericansknew.org/

It is hard to understand why you're so proud of Israel.

Dear Mehdi

Based on your scenario, nothing could be argued. You are right. And that's the point!

In any arguments there are no individuals necessarily evil or angry without a base. The logic is that the "facts" might not be the facts. If you believe the scenario that you have provided as the bases of your arguments are all correct, then you are correct to assume your position based on the datas available to you.

The issue becomes complicated when someone including myself does not see it the way you have portrait it here.

There are enough materials out there for you to judge humanely. If all data given after your research in this matter and you still feel the same, then stand up for what you believe regardless of what anyone says. All I suggest is to look at it not from one side of the equation, which turns the picture to naive and unreal.

Thanks for the post.

Thank you American wife.

well said.

Mercy Khanom

"shiny head" or shal I say Kachal (bald) :D

You just sound like Zirak who lost his access (privilage) to Iranian.com !!!!

Mehdi well done

B.K.

Gee thanks Molla....

You're going to be a very busy boy if you're only in iranian.com to correct spelling and grammar.

Do you muder too Mazloom?

Form what we can gather you sound like a zio-nazis. Do you murder, destory homes and farms, and kill children too?

History Of israel

Click here and see the stroy in vivid graphs.

//www.levitt.com/misc/israel_history.swf

Mollah

1. English is my 3rd language. The meaning and intent of the writer is more important then few misspells here and there.

2. I use StarOffice, and is just as good and MSOffice.

3. have read it and twice. Some non-English words may be spelled in different ways

Thanks for the comment.

Now, please put your comments about the content itself.

Proofread your work!

It's "Let's" not "Lets." You also have many sentence fragments and misspelled words in the body of your text. Please run it through the MS Word spellchecker or read it before clicking on the publish button!

Great Piece

Mehdi, wonderfully written. Todah rabbah.

Ananymous8, you heard it wrong buddy. Open your eyes.
Nice music though, I like Prodigy. Wasted on a pile of rubbish.

I heard it a bit differently

for all to enjoy.