MM

I posted a link to your blog in a collection of related items

I posted a link to your blog in a collection of related items in  Chauvinists vs. Shadi Sadr: invitation to write

Everything is sacred.

So what? = Answer to ALL questions and issues!

Vice President Cheney people are hurting and economy is in the toilet and .....

Vice President Cheney = So? 

Everything is sacred.

Anonymouse

I do consider Shadi Sadr a leader who is well respected amongst the Iranian Diaspora.  That is why I have been trying to hint her towards priorities that will count towards the repeal of the laws that are the underlying cause of all discrimination in Iran.

Realistically, not a significant portion of Iranians within Iran could oblige to what Shadi is asking for, especially the Mullah class who are the cause of all this discrimination towards women.  The men in Diaspora, will oblige (including me) due to our respect to Shadi Sadr.  However, this is not going to solve problems in Iran, and we should give her the feedback that OK, you labeled the Iranian men as chauvinists and we ALL agree with you.  Now what?

So, as the head Male Chauvinist Pig who dared to talk back and question Shadi's actions, I suggest that her next move needs to be actions that unites the opposition and directs attention towards the backward laws of IRI and her leaders.  Otherwise, some of us will not consider her a leader no more, and just an unfocused opposition faction just like many of us here.

تو نیکی‌ میکنو در دجله انداز که ایزد در بیابانت دهد باز!

Everything is sacred.

"how" this chauvinism confession will bring equality in Iran?

 If you and Anonymouse can convince me as to how this chauvinism confession will bring equality in Iran, I will accept the invitation,

How?! Imagine if ALL Iranian men confess to chauvinism.  Imagine that and then tell me with a straight face that it will not bring equality.  ALL includes Khamenei and on down!  One step at a time ...

Everything is sacred.

ISK

Just don't tell the TSA officer what your avatar name is.  If you do, you will get to know the officers intimately and they will probably let you choose the gloves that will be used on your behalf.

TSA should be tougher

I am glad that the TSA is very detailed and not politically correct. Afterall, why would I want to endanger my life by the same people who encourage:

their members to burn themselves up in Paris and Vienna...

tell their members to storm an aircraft and refuse to leave because they are protesting some far off event...

their members to wear white masks in Sweden and descend on a tourist spot from all four corners and disrupt the peace...and then start stuffing ballots

their members to act like subhuman savages and attack embassys in Belgium with rocks and sticks in total disregard for local laws

encourage their members to proclaim they are homosexuals so they can get politcal asylum in Europe...

I can't forsee what their next action might be so All power to TSA....I don't want my plane to blow up because some member's application for asylum got denied

humanbeing - I hope d inspected diapers were used ones

With 2 kids in tow?  That is terrible, but again, you cannot argue with those TSA folks once they smell something.

i'll never forget

the time when i was held up for hours at heathrow, even though i was with two kids in tow.

i have never boarded a flight, ever, without being checked for drugs. in fact i've never so much as smoked a joint (i prefer alcohol) but the profiling is so typecast. it's the sloppy look misinterpreted as beatnik.

on this flight, it was post 9-11, in the heat of the intifada (early 2000s), as usual we didn't manage to pack in an organized way, and one of the 10 plastic bags of 'carry on luggage' was from al-hoda bookshop in leicester square. i had put a soccer ball and some spare diapers in it at the last minute.

the interrogation was long and tedious.

when it was finally over, my husband mustered some wit amid the fatigue and said 'see you've been upgraded'.

Ari - that is unbelievable - they must have remembered u from B4

The TSA guys could actually get fired for holding your unscreened luggage while you went away.  But, you also have an honest face, though, unlike mine, I guess.

Hi Yolanda

Being subjected to discrimination because of your sex, race or religion is degrading and the remnants of it should be wiped from the US as well.  By the way, do not forget your passport if you go to Arizona, though!!!

It is almost funny that the opposite of what you went through happened to an American friend of mine (with British accent) coming back from Canada, pre-2001.  He had crossed the border at the Niagara Falls and left his main ID in his car in the US.  The only thing he had at hand was his BJ's club membership (or was it the other wholesale club?), and the border guard accepted it as proof of his residency and let my friend back in. Was it because he is white with British accent?  Probably.  If it was you or me? Probably not.

MM, good feedback

Here's a related anecdote. In the airport security line I realized I had left my laptop in the car. So I asked two of the security staff on their breaks outside the line to watch my (as yet unscreened) luggage while I ran to the garage to get the computer. Can you believe they did it!! They're no more convinced we're dangerous than than you or me. And they of all people should know after screening so many of us.

......

Hi! MM,

    Thank you for your blog! I believe it is a terrible feeling to be singled out for the body search at airport.....

     Many years ago, I went to Tijuana, Mexico for one day visit.......when I re-entered the US border, the American border guard yelled at me and treated me like an illegal alien.....I had my citizenship paper with me.....after seeing my paper, he became very polite......I have no idea why I look illegal to him!

    I read Shadi Sadr in Wikipedia......she is very brave and has done a lot of great work........

    Be very honest with you......I have decided not to join the chauvinism fight.......because I know I am no better than anyone else here...I have my problems......I will work on my personal shortcomings and weakness instead! I am working on my discipline problem...it is hard! 

   I do hope Iranian women will have more freedom....it is sad that women are not allowed to enter the soccer stadium in Iran!  The reason I mention this is because I am a soccer fan....World cup is only 6 days away!

take care!

OK Azadeh and Anonymouse

Here is a one paragraph subject: The Islamic Republic’s backward discriminatory laws dating back to the 7th century is the main reason Iranian women are in peril at home, outside and in the courts.  As someone following a leader, how do pitting Iranian men against Iranian women going to remove the IRI laws off the books?  The attainment of the equal rights amendment is the fight I am more interested to take on in order to restore everyone’s dignity in Iran regardless of one’s gender, race or religion. 

OK, I agree that there is chauvinism in Iran, but I know Americans who I consider more chauvinists, so let’s just call ALL men chauvinists, and move on.  But again, how is that going to solve problems in Iran?  I expected Shadi Sadr to:

1. Have a longer term vision by tackling problems relevant to fighting IRI’s out-dated laws, and

2. Bring different opposition factions together instead of starting a fissure within.

If you and Anonymouse can convince me as to how this chauvinism confession will bring equality in Iran, I will accept the invitation, otherwise, I will concentrate on a larger picture to frame. At the end of the day, I will probably accept the invitation because of Shadi Sadr and move on, just like the TSA line search, but stratigically, I think that we are wasting time that could have been devoted to fighting IRI's discriminitory laws.  

No Azadeh – no interviews.  My wife (of decades) and I are very happy with our humble life in America, as is.  I do not have any political aspirations, nor would like to be the subject of a book.  Find Ali and be happy.

AO - Exactly.

With a TSA officer, who is got nothing to do but sit there all day, you cannot argue, and as a matter of fact he will probably intensify his search.  But, facing a leader like Shadi Sadr, you have to give feedback and point out the main issue we want to take on: Iranians vs. IRI laws and NOT Iranian men vs. Iranian women.

I just got in - Ari first

Ari,

I will be the first one to point out that women in Iran have the hardest time.  However, some of us think that pitting Iranian men vs. Iranian women is not going to solve any problems as long as the backward islamic laws are on the books.  I also agree with Azadeh that there is some chauvinism in Iran to begin with, but comeon, only 10 men spared? Now, after 31 years of telling our young boys that women are this and that and by the way worth 1/2 men legally, of course, there will be some attitute.  I am not denying that, but the main problem is the IRI's anti-women discriminitory laws.  Once these anti-women laws are repealed, we will look at this period as a bad nightmare and move on.  The main fight we want to take on is the IRI's laws vs. Iranians.

As far as Shadi, yes, we can be team-players and not say anything, but a good team player will also give feedback to the coach with constructive criticism.  If we follow our leaders blindly, we are no better than the IRI followers of Khomeini who look at him as infallable.

MM

I  was selected for a "random" screening with the new full body scan machine at an airport a couple of weeks ago.  I told the TSA guy right in his face that he was pulling me out because of the color of my hair and skin.  He got flustered and said no, but I insisted that this was the case.  I went through the search, but I still let him know what I thought.

In the interest of fairness, I did see that he pulled a few "white" people out of the line after me.  Whether that was because of what I said or the search was truly random, we will never know.  But I suggest that all Iranians do exactly as I did.  Don't make trouble and get yourself arrested.  Submit to the search, but tell them you know why they're doing it.  Writing your congressional representatives is not a bad idea either.  And if the TSA officer gets rude, get his/her name and badge number and file a formal complaint against him/her with the TSA itself.   

Ari jaan sexual harrassment laws do not exist in Iran!

Remember when sexual harrassment became known to American public?  1990 and Anita Hill vs Clarence Thomas.  Here in America about 20 years ago.

There is not much of a difference between sexual harrasment and chauvinism in Iran as we speak.  Maybe one day we'll be able to separate them but I don't think right now.

BTW Shadi Sadr is a lawyer, a very good one!  She knows what she is talking about!  I am proud of her and proud to have an Iranian woman who can speak like her.  Just imagine the wrath she is facing.  You don't think she knew what would come after her? 

Good night for now ... 

Everything is sacred.

Anonymouse

Thank you MM for accepting the invitation.

While I don't know if you accepted the invitation, I'm going to thank you anyway and provide a link to your blog when I gather all the blogs and articles related to Shadi Sadr whether by invitation or not.

Of course I don't agree with your views since you're comparing apples and oranges.  I've been searched many times by TSA and European airport securities. In the last case my feet smelled really bad and I could tell the security agent was holding his breath!  But he searched me and then he used sanitizer to wash his hands and we both went our own way. So what?

Ari jaan as far as Shadi Sadr I am almost certain she meant what she said as is and that is one reason I read all the arguments and her statement and then asked for this invitation.

Given the situation we're in and knowing a big chunk of Iranian population is against this inequality and would agree in principle with Shadi Sadr that consciously or unconsciously ALL Iranian men are chauvinists or been chauvinists and that is one of the main reasons if not THE reason Islamic Repulic keeps piling on, there is no other way to bring this issue to home in strong enough terms to make a difference. All other measures have been tried exhaustively and failed.  Iranian men really need to stand up and do something, anything.  I don't blame Iranian men for all the ills and it is not a question of blame, it is a question of timing and speaking the truth.

As our good friend Faramarz said in another blog and I translate here:

Without a wet stick

donkeys and cows will not listen! 

Everything is sacred.

Ari

For the Iranian women, the Iranian men are teammates in one game (people versus the IRI) and members of the opposite team in another game - patriarchy (women versus men.) We cannot mix these two games, although they are related. We cannot always be teammates, because we are playing different games - although they are played at the same time. 

[Just an important side-note regarding "women versus men": Patriarchy (a concept / a system) is practiced by people in flesh and bones. Traditionally and in order to save men's egos, one would say Women (people in flesh and blood) are oppressed by Patriarchy (a concept, a system,) which is a wrong way of presenting the issue, because the two side of the equation don't match: the two sides should either be abstract or concrete. So, the right formulation would be to say: Women are oppressed by men within a system called Patriarchy.]

Oppressors are NEVER ready to accept being oppressors. Shadi Sadr can never "make her point understood"  by those who have no interest - imaginary or real, to understand her point.

I believe that the problem is not with Shadi Sadr's timing, nor with the oppressors (Iranian men's) refusal to change, but with the Iranian women and their silence for the sake of some imaginary self-interests. Since Shadi Sadr's declaration, how many men responded to her and how many women? And since my first cartoon about her words and Anonymouse's blog and his invitation, how many men participated in debates and how many women did? There has systematically been fewer women than men, and at least two of them (no need to name them) were on the side of the Iranian men and their "not being all chauvinists" - although none of these two women gave us the name of one single Iranian man who is not chauvinist (after I suggested to write about a non-sexist Iranian man!)

Iranian men as oppressors of women (within the Iranian patriarchal system) will accept to be oppressors and will begin changing their sexist attitudes, actions and outlooks , only and only when the Iranian women in all places and in all situations show up as voices against male domination.

Until that time, Shadi Sadr, me and one or two others who have supported Shadi's point of view will be facing mathematical, logical, poetic, humorous, parallel reasoning, and other acrobatic maneuvers by the bright men of the IC  to prove that NOT ALL Iranian men are chauvinists. Simply because the word "Most" allows them to imagine themselves among the liberated , while the word "ALL" prevents them from falling into this self-delusion.

Rights are taken, not given! That's why I'm more disappointed in Iranian women than in Iranian men.

I think I need to move on now :-)

Azadeh

Azadeh

I really don't know if Sadr miscalculated or not. Hence the sincere words "maybe" and "possible."  Depends on whether or not the rest of us can help her make her point understood. Should Sadr, as a leader, have kept in mind that what she said is not reachable by many of her male teammates? Or is she counting on the rest of the team to make sure that her shot does become reachable? Sadr has made a play and our task is simple: to make sure it hits the mark for the team, and doesn't lead to confusion and the breaking of ranks. Assessing the wisdom of a player's initiatiative once the ball is in play is where one could defensibly say, "now isn't the time."   

Sofas without wheels and cars without jack!

MM: I’d like to ask you for a favour: give me one single subject –anything but the present subject of “men are chauvinists” – something like “The only thing certain in life is death" or "All Mullahs are backward" and I’ll come up with two completely opposite yet seemingly “logical” arguments about that subject. Could you do that?

Ali P: So far you are the only non-chauvinist Iranian man that I know - unless the contrary is proven, which I don't think will happen. Do you have a profile on facebook? I’d like to interview you and write an article about you as a genuinely non-sexist Iranian man. What do you say?

Ari: Your comment below is disappointing (I would have said “a bit opportunistic” if I didn’t like you :-)) You are contradicting yourself. In your comment below about Shadi Sadr, you say, "Maybe her timing was off or she miscalculated the shot"  or  "she meant to address the larger cultural issue, a possible miscalculation on her part" (please don’t bring up the words “maybe” and "possible" as a way out of this hole you dug for yourself to soothe MM's bruised ego)

while

in your own blog, you say, "Right now we need all the teamwork we can muster to fight the dictatorship. But we've been saying this forever, and never getting around to it. Time to reframe the issue in terms where "now isn't the time" seems physiologically unrealistic. "  Plus, in your response to benross, you compare men to sofas with wheels or cars with a jack, and you rightfully say, “Similarly, the well designed Iranian male should have some sort of wheel, or handle or... on his cultural attitudes so that he is accessible to change. More than anything, Shadi Sadr's seemingly insensitive statement is a call for better designing our psychologies so that cultural transformations and rearrangements towards modernity becomes easier. We shouldn't be stubborn about not needing such an access point, claiming we are fine as we are and where we are. It's not too much to ask really!”

//iranian.com/main/blog/ari-siletz/chauvinists-vs-shadi-sadr-stubbornness-isnt-option

Ari, you don’t have to please everybody. I know that you are skilled in the art of ambiguity, but this skill, while both diplomatic and self-serving, usually muddies the waters of truth instead of clarifying it. You don’t need to be part of an “all boys club on IC” (who take it like a “man”) in order to be accepted by other male readers. You know very well that MM’s premise is wrong. You could have either been silent or shown him why his premise is wrong. But you chose the “friendliest way of all!”

I personally don’t think less of MM because he is resisting to be included among chauvinists (although very strangely he hasn’t volunteered to be the non-sexist man I’d like to interview and write about.) It will take a very long time before our male compatriots are confident enough to say what Ali P. has said below. And I expect the same from MM - not to think less of me because I think differently about this specific issue.

I suggest that you, Ari, advise men to be women, and women like Shadi Sadr - if they ever give men such great honour!

Cheers,

Azadeh 

Guilty!

I had a white, Jewish, ultra liberal,professor, who used to say:" If you are a white person who grew up in America, you are infected by the virus of racism."

The culture pushes you that way, and unless you don't affirmitively do something about that, you'll be infected, without even knowing it.

(I see it in our own Iranian community. Many new comer Iranians, start forming negative opinions towards blacks, the moment they get off the boat!)

Male chauvinism is the same.

We are all infected by it, to different degrees. Be honest with yourself,reach within, and you'll find examples of it.

One example: I ask myself, why do I react differently, when I hear a married male friend of mine, is getting some action on the side (shaytoon!), versus when I find out an Iranian woman is betraying the sanctity of her marriage by having an affair (slut!).

Yours,

Ali P. 

Let's be men

JJ - pls fix the picture and let me know how to do it. thanks

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