Multiple Personality Disorder

Dear Nazy,

My place looks like a dumpster in a tornado.  I need to get on with the program and start cleaning up.  Eleven days might be barely enough to get it done on time for "Norooz".  Maybe I’ll find my couch eventually once I start cleaning.

O.K. what do I need for sabzeh?  Does it have to be green?  Can I use other colors?  When you say New Day, shouldn’t that be Newday?  I think I need help with khooneh tekooni. 

ابی جان؛

سپاس.  این الفبای فنوتیک را هم حضرت عباسی در ایران یاد گرفته بودیم ولی چون در فرنگستان بیسواد شده ایم آنها را فراموش کرده ایم.  حالا که این دو واژه را آوردی فیل ما را به یاد هندوستان انداختی.  در هر صورت حرف خ در آن  مساوی اکس در انگلیسی است.  چ مساوی سی ش مساوی اس با یک خط بالاش آ مانند آنچه آوردی و ای کشیده مانند ای انگلیسی با یک خط بالایش.  درود

Thank you Mr. Avaznia,

Your contribution is greatly appreciated.

مالتیپل؛

البته، سخن به جایی گفته ای. اگر چه نوروز یک واژه ی مرکب است شکل تکواژه ای آن برای این روز خاص متداول است.  بخش زیادی از این مربوط به جابجایی صفت و موصوف در زبان فارسی است.  به گمان من ابی تفصیلش و قواعدش را بهتر می داند و من فقط کاربردش را آموخته ام.  دلیل دیگر به نظر می رسد مربوط به اهمیت این یک روز خاص باشد.  هر روز تازه ی دیگر در پارسی یک روز نو خوانده شده است ولی نوروز خوانده نشده است. به عبارتی، هر روز دیگر روز نو بوده و هرگز نوروز نبوده.  واژه ی نوبر را هم تکواژه ای می نویسند و می خوانند اگرچه مرکب است. نوبهار هم تکواژه ای نوشته و خوانده می شود.  در هر حال، هیچ روز نو دیگر نورز نمی شود مگر در زیبایی شناسی زبانی یا کاربرد شعری. حال، چرا به زبان فرنگی واژه را دوتکه می کنیم ؟ من نمی دانم.  به نظر اینجانب پرسش شما نیازمند پاسخی قانع کننده تراست. چون به هر نحو که بخشش کنیم مفهوم نوروزی ندارد و فقط نزدیک به نوروز تلفظ می شود.  با درود  

Ebi what are you talking about?

Ebi buddy I said "if Dr. Yarshater tell us we should call Iran, Eyeran, should we accept ...?

You respnded; "Your logic is like Americans who ... say we pronunce Ireland as Eyerland;so,why should we say Iran instead of Eyeran??!!

My logic?! I said we should NOT accept it. Not because they do it, because it is not how it is prounounced. Here we are debating how new in Farsi is prounounced or how Iran is prounounced. Just like if we were to tell an Iranian how to prounounce Yes sir! No sir! Would you tell them say it as Now sir?! Of course if he is Naser, yes maybe ;-)

ano101 I don't know who Dr. Yarshater is. I had not heard of him before and now that I have, knowing he calls Norooz as Now Ruz, I definately believe he has a screw loose. His other work not withstanding.

Manouchehr thank you for your note. It does make sense. You said "I love every form of pronounciation of any Parsee word as all their forms very well-deserve to be recorded and protected and used as at any point one of them is more appropriate for a certain use." Exacto-mundo! I love ALL Persian dialects. ALL of them. I speak Gilaki (Mazandarani) fluently and I love it.

The most appropriate form as you said is Norooz. Vaslam, nam-e tamam. Khalas! Period. Finito!

Manucher aziz

Thanks for providing the historical/linguistics facts,I learnt a lot.

************************************************

A note:

As for different forms of transcribing a word(not spelling it as some suggested),the form Nowruz/Now ruz is based on phonology(phonetic transcription).IPA is the center for finalizing the correct form of phonetic transcription of words,so when you check a word in a dictionary,you can easily pronunce it correctly w/o attending any language 101.Since it is difficult to use the IPA standard fonts,then we have to compromise,like typing "aa",for the vowel sound in the Farsi word "Jaan".

Check the title of Natalia's blog,which is correct phonetic transcription for its vowels:

If I want to type it here I have to type:

khosh aamadin!!.

Ebi aka Haaji

نوروز یا نو روز

ما در زبانِ فارسی (یا پارسی) نوروز می گیم یا نو روز؟  البته نوروز می گیم، به عنوانِ یک کلمه.
پس چرا در انگلیسی ما اینرو تبدیل به دو کلمه کنیم؟

Don’t even get me started on Iran, or is it Eraan?

Ebi thanks for the links showing how intelligent Ehsan Yarshater is, or should it be Ehsaan Yaar Shaater.  I’m just kidding but still confused.  People, please don’t take me seriously, but I read his biography and it didn’t say where he went for his ESL.

 But anyway, intelligent people make mistakes all the time.  Remember they used to give electrical shock or remove part of the brain to cure mental illness, flowing water canals on Mars, Newton believed in alchemy, remember those highly intelligent NASA scientists who screwed up on the Hubble space telescope that cost millions of Dollars to repair.  I’m sure intelligent people make mistakes; I have no doubt about it.    

Both words Now (No) and Rooz

Both words Now (No) and Rooz (Roz), (Rozh) have been pronounced in both ways, at least, in extereme eastern and extereme western portions of the land of Iranian people.  People in east of Iran, Afghanestan, and Tajeekestaan pronounce it as "Now".  This has been clearly reflected in Mowlavee's poems that are imbued with the spirit of eastern pronounciation of words around Baakhtar (Balkh).  As you go further west, you encounter the "No" form of the word.  Central and western Iranians have prefered this pronounciation.  In many local dialects "nobaar" has been used as a beautiful female name meaning "No Bahaar" and they have understood it as New Spring.  Also, No Bar that means new fruit is pronounced in the same way.  Rooz is more commonly used in central Iran while Roz is used in the east and Afghanestan.  Rozh is used; almost exclusively, among Iranians who speak Kordish and you may find it from eastern frontiers of Kordestan to Syria and central Turkey.  As our language, not like English, is focused on the solid core of words all these forms have always meant "Day" and "New" and people have easily understood them.  Mutiple should know that the name has two components in Parsee; and Iranians have made many names by combining two or more words; Now Rooz makes a perfect sense among Iranians.  Just mention that many men in Iran have been named "Now Rooz" or in some dialects "No Rez".  Sometimes, some Islamic prfixes such as "Ali" have been added to it as well.  Who cares what Farangees think of it.  It is not their invention.  Neither have they discovered it.  I think the most fluent form of pronounciation of "Now Rooz" to be "No Rooz", however I love every form of pronounciation of any Parsee word as all their forms very well-deserve to be recorded and protected and used as at any point one of them is more appropriate for a certain use. 

Thanks Dear Ebi for your

Thanks Dear Ebi for your supporting argument and links that you provided. 

Iran or Eyeran??

Your logic is like Americans who pronunce Iran as Eyeran,or Iraq as Eyeraq!!.When you confront them,they say we pronunce Ireland as Eyerland;so,why should we say Iran instead of Eyeran??!!

Go figure!!

//www.columbia.edu/cu/lweb/data/indiv/area/idmes/YARSHATER,Ehsan.htm

 //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ehsan_Yarshater

//histories.cambridge.org/credited_person?id=YarshaterEhsan

Ebi aka Haaji

Ana101 unless ...

Ana101 if Dr. Yarshater (who is he?) tell us we should call Iran, Eyeran, should we accept him? This is the same thing. Logic should prevail no matter who says it.

Now IF you are going to say Norooz is not the sole proprietary of Iranians and many countries and cultures celebrate Norooz and they have different languages and Now Ruz is how it is pronounced most then I can accept it.

Or if you're going to say Kermanis or Kashanis or Gilanis or Isfahanis have a different accent and pronounce it differently, I can accept it.

But if you tell me Dr. Shater says to write it as Now Ruz, I am going to say ZZZzereeesshhhKKKK! I do NOT need him or anybody else to tell me how to prounounce Norooz. I look forward to it every year for the past 50 years.

I have a family member with the name Norooz. I know exactly how to prounounce it and it is NOT NOW, it is NO.

Now if a Dr. does NOT know the difference between NO and NOW then I have no other option than to conclude that he has gotten the same PhD as our beloved Mr. Ahmadinejad who believes Holocaust was a myth and we don't have gays in Iran. Capiche?!! Just kidding, don't take it personally ;o)

Multiple

I understand your rage, my friend!

Did you do your khooneh tekooni yet?

And it's time to get your sabzeh going right about now! Only 11 days left to The New Day (How about that?!)

//www.taghvim.com/

Get with the "spirit of the season" as opposed to obsessing with the "spelling of the season!"

"Now Ruz"?

I also don’t like this word being spelled with two capital letters, NoRooz, NowRuz, etc. And I don’t like the way one word is broken down to two words either, Now Ruz. It looks so foreign, not English like. One thing about English language is that it is highly adaptive in accepting other words from other languages and I think Norooz fits nicely into that category.

Yarshater and Persian Literature

MPD, you yourself call Dr. Yarshater highly intelligent.  He is an expert in Persian Literature and even if I have not read his theory behind what to call Persian New Year, why can't we just defer to this Persian literature expert? 

I dislike Nowruz spelling the most

Have you heard of the story of the ignorant man who does something that a thousand intelligent men cannot undo?  Well this Nowruz spelling is the other way around.  These highly intelligent PhD’ed people have come up with this spelling, which I think is the worst one, but who can undo it now?!  To me it looks like it’s a German word.  And, Now Ruz is worse than Nowruz. 

I don’t care what White House or UNESCO says, I’m going to write it as Norooz.

del

del

I usually call myself

I usually call myself Iranian (not Persian) speaking Farsi (not Persian) and celebrating Norooz (not Now Ruz [re-use]).

UNESCO calls it Nowruz, or is it Now Ruz?

I used to spell it Nowrooz, or Nowrouz, until I was corrected by Jahanshah last year! (He took a piece I had written and replaced all my Nowrooz's with Nowruz. Go figure!)

Here's a blog from Bruce Bahmani, also from last year, in which he shares his pain at trying to pronounce Nowruz in each of its different spellings.

//iranian.com/main/blog/bahmani/now-ruz-v...

As it turns out, Dr. Ehsan Yarshater of Encyclopaedia Iranica, and his colleagues have recommended the Now Ruz spelling. I will oblige.

On another (but same) note, I have heard that prior to Islam's arrival in Iran, Haft Seen used to be Haft Sheen, one of which was Sharaab (wine). Some Iranians who wish to go way, way back to their roots, I have heard, observe the Haft Sheen (I don't personally know any of them). I guess if you join that group, you can solve the "No Booze" problem, as well, by serving wine at Nowruz, or Nowrooz, or Nowrooze.

According to White House?!

Let me think, do we say "now ruz mobarak" in Farsi?! It reminds me of that Everybody Loves Raymond episode where Ray tries to tell his cousin to say "NOW", say now; now, not now, NOW!

MPD aziz

Very nice blog,made me think & laugh!.

According to IPA,Iranica,UN,White House,... is :

NOWRUZ

Early Happy Nowruz !.

Ebi aka Haaji

Goodnight

And stay off the drugs.. and the booze.