Vasspaan

Where is the Love?! The gall of Bahais

Very simple: when I proudly say DEATH TO BAHAISM, the love is in the love of TRUTH, which bahaism is a complete, total and absolute negation  on every level. But, tell us, where exactly is the love in this statement by your founder:

Sophia, May Nima/Wahid Live to be 120

Sophia, May Nima Live to be 120,

You said: 

"Hear this, and hear it well, Mr Mansouri. Wahid Azal will NEVER stand alone." 

Well Sophia, May Nima/wahid Live to be 120 and see the fruit of his" labour".

As to him  "NEVER" standing  "alone"; that will really depend on the company he keeps in the court of divine justice; if you believe there is one.

The sectarian religious bigotry of a "godhead"

In respone to Nima Hazini /Wahid Azal , who keeps proclaiming:

"Verily I am the Holy Pre-Eternal and the Living Light!"

(innani ana quddus al-azali wa nur al-hayy)

[Crossposted to USENET] 

The sectarian religious bigotry of a "godhead" ; Nima/Wahid Azal

Dear "godhead", 

Where is the love in your "Death to" this and that..

Lynch mobs" only exist in your "godhead" and spam rhetoric;

"Everything written by Faryar on this and other boards in regards to" you Nima Hazini / Wahid Azal is a direct response to your sworn animosity, distortions and manufactured lies; an accurate reflection of your years of  "googlable" history of indecent behavior and abhorrent language. 

Fortunately it would be easy to add you and your legacy to the rest of the characters who have fallen to oblivion, starting with Azal himslef.

The Truth always prevails...May all Bigots suffer the consequences of their lies and malicious deeds.

Time will tell, as it has so far to date..

Faryam I am copying and SHARING...

this post as a testimony to the enlightened state of your faith...

All people should learn from your example...whether they're Baha'i or not ....

To Sophia...  Satan never stands alone because he's surrounded by vapid sycophants ....  A word to the wise should be sufficient

To Faryar

The sectarian religious bigotry of Faryar

When love is defined so narrowly within the confines of an even narrower ideology, and when all others outside of it who are opposed to such ideology for principled reasons are defined by such ideologues as inhabiting the space of hate, we are dealing with sectarian religious bigotry. When legitimate grievances are casually dismissed or glossed over by sectarian ideologues who paint their victims as the perpetrators and themselves as victims, when all can see the predatorial behavior of these individuals themselves and what they do, we are dealing with sectarian religious bigotry. When history is whitewashed and absolute, demonstrable lies are masqueraded as truth, with the exponents of such facts denounced and dealt by blood-curdling mobs, we are dealing with sectarian religious bigotry. Everything written by Faryar on this and other boards in regards to myself and other individuals who have had the courage to stand against the Bahai lynch mob here and its leader Faryar, is blatantly about sectarian religious bigotry on the part of the Bahais

I have never shied away from supporting my views with evidence and holding my own against this lynch mob. I have never been afraid to admit what I have done, nor am I ashamed of anything I have ever said or done. I have played fair even though I have played hard. My conscience is absolutely, crystal clear, and I will one day go to my grave (whether from natural causes, or as a result of foul play on the part of the Baha'is, which is a very real possibility) without an atom of regret for the fact that I stood up to one of the, in my opinion, most evil organizations and most corrupt communities on the face of the earth!

But with that said, while I live I will not hold my voice or stay my conscience for one second to the hatefilled and dishonest sectarian diatribes of maniacal, one track minded religious bigots such as Faryar Mansouri and his type, especially since what the Spirit has raised no man can ever take down! And it is for this reason that to myself and for my Self I can proclaim the litany of my Self, and say,

Verily I am the Holy Pre-Eternal and the Living Light!

(innani ana quddus al-azali wa nur al-hayy)

[Crossposted to USENET] 

Religion without LOVE is NOTHING.

We might actually agree of something...Love.

Its regrettable that in this toxic atmosphere created ever since the appearance of sworn enemies of Bahais , the black clouds have caused frequent darkness on Iranian.com.

I love my faith, because I get love from it; like nature that needs  the radiating energy of the Sun..it is a  reassuring source of knowledge and a kind of Spiritual guiding  system, not unlike what pilots use and follow with absolute “faith”.

I am not a Bahai because I was born into it or was raised to be one; and not because of a bunch of ideas ,nice flowery words and principles, but because of the transformation I have seen in people throughout the years whether in Europe, Iran or America.

Every single one of these shared the same qualities.

Intelligent, Soft spoken, humble, selfless, non-judgmental, forgiving, and loving; so much so that just being around them was a source of joy; almost like getting your batteries charged.

These people were both young and old... most were not born Bahais, and had found it on their own; many had no beliefs in God or religion,some had gone through the usual self destructive  period, trying everything that could bring them a quick satisfaction. 

No, If the Bahai Faith was void of Love; if it was just a mere "code of laws"; if it was "deceiving" or "fraudulent" and exploited people,it could not inspire; it would have died out after the death of its founders.

Perhaps History is the best judge. Many like Nima Hazini/Wahid Azal have come before trying to defame and sworn to destroy the Bahai Faith. They have all failed miserably; all have seen a miserable lonely end. They all tried  all kinds of mischief and forgery including attempt to harm Baha’u’llah Himself. They Failed.

If there was any falsehood, It would have had the same fate as Azal and all who followed him.

For example:

 "The inhabitants of Famagusta appear to have regarded Azal as a Muslim holy man and Mirza Yahya  (Azal) went along with this. When people called to greet on Muslim feasts like Bayram (it being customary to visit a holy man on such occasions), he accepted this. There was no attempt to teach the local people the Babi or Azali religious beliefs.

Although freed from the conditions of his exile in 1881 after the British occupation of Cyprus Mirza Yahya preferred to remain in Famagusta as a pensioner of the British Government. 

Mirza Yahya (Azal) died on 29 April 1912 at the age of about 80. According to the account by his son, Ridvan-`Ali, who had by this time become a Christian and taken the name Constantine the Persian, no "witnesses to the Bayan" (i.e. Babis) could be found to carry out the funeral ceremony and so it was carried out by the Imam-Jum`a of Famagusta and other Muslim clerics.[25]

All of Mirza Yahya's family in Cyprus maintained an outward appearance of being Muslims. The people of Famagusta used to call them sun-worshippers because of their custom of leaving the city at sunrise to go to Mirza Yahya's grave to pray. Mirza Yahya's descendants at the present time appear to know little about their family history or religious past and can for all practical purposes be regarded as Turks and Muslims. Riza Ezel, the caretaker of Mirza Yahya's grave at present, told us that his grand-father was a Muslim holy man. Since Jalal Azal's death, his widow `Ismat has put an annual notice in the newspapers on the anniversary of his death inviting people to a Mevlid recital and Qur'an reading in his memory (this being the traditional Turkish Muslim custom).[26] 

------------------- 

"Today, Azalis, are a small minority community in Iran. Because of their practice of dissimulation, they hide their beliefs. plus a few, outside Iran, and most probably just “1” in Australia, including Wahid Azal formerly known as Nima Hazini, who at some point made some claim to prophethood himself as a godhead with 19 commandments. 

By contrast, the Bahais, the followers of Baha’u’llah  have persevered and endured through more than a century of brutal persecution and suffering by the fanatical shia establishment; they have stood firm without hiding their beliefs. 

Defenseless and Against all odds; despite every effort and chance to eliminate them, there are millions of Bahais outside of Iran who enjoy worldwide respect and recognition, including their own fellow Iranians, who have come around to finally see through the Raddiyehs, the  lies and forgeries;  witnessing the daily targeting of defenseless Bahais for punishment.

In fairness, would you be prepared to die for something that you believed to be a lie or fraudulent?

My passion in defense of my beliefs in face of its sworn enemies, is not because I need to push the ideas on you or anyone, no intelligent person can accept or believe anything without love, understanding and admiration for that idea.

Without love and devotion, there is no conviction; how can I or anyone else make you accept or  love, without your acceptance of, first your appreciation and the logic behind the idea ?

That can only come about as a result of independant curiosity, a need to know and an open mind without preconceived ideas.

Much of what you rightly object to , is actually preconceived ideas about Religion in general. 

Add to these preconceived ideas, the untruths, the distortions and sheer opportunistic maliciously repeated lies by someone who has made a career out of spamming hatred against Bahais.

I absolutely abhor the distasteful exchanges and the  the combative environment created here since the arrival of Nima Hazini who changed his name to Wahid Azal but can not let the selfish and vengeful agenda of a bitter, self destructive individual, poison the minds of people, who have no alternative but to, switch off in disgust to what could  potentially be the most enlightening discussion  of life’s most important challenges; the most unanswered questions we all face as human beings.

"By Unity it is not meant Uniformity... " BALDERDASH!

Actually that is exactly what it means: uniformity. Baha'is do a lot of double-speak over this concept of "unity," but at the end of the day uniformity is precisely what they mean by it. Take the concept of freedom of conscience and liberty, for example: both notions which Baha'i texts condemn. Husayn 'Ali Baha' unequivocally condemns liberty (hurriya) in his Kitab-i-Aqdas and recent UHJ members are on record saying that "freedom of conscience is a dangerous delusion from Christianity." When you put these notions together, coupled with the fact that the Baha'i institutions and authorities are meant to be infallible, what you end up with in reality is a completely Orwellian system where the notion of unity is precisely that of a Stalinist uniformity.

//www.bahai-library.org/talks/martin.watson.html

//www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/DMartin.htm

Comment: those taking partners with God are precisely the ones substituting their very much worldly institutions and power for the Divine and the sanctity of the individual. The Voice of every individual conscience must be held supreme because EVERY INDIVIDUAL CONSCIENCE IS THE VOICE OF GOD! Mr  Douglas Martin, together with the founder of his creed, have it all wrong because they got it all backwards.

[Crossposted to USENET]

PS: I should properly thank you, Mr Mansouri, for all the free advertising you do on my behalf here and elsewhere :)

Dear Veiled...

You said: 

 "I don't want to be united. I like my individuality. I fear that unification will destroy innovation; variety and fun of life. I love a good argument and being a good Iranian I like to debate with people. Heck what is life for if I wanted to be unified with everyone anyway? "

By Unity it is not meant Uniformity... 

It is a Bahai belief that " The shining spark of truth cometh forth only after the clash of differing opinions.." this given in reference to means by which democratically elected representatives of Bahai Communities should consult and reach their  decision regarding all matters for the benefit of their communities, all over the world, without a clerical religious class.

There is no peace without accord, within the individual, the family, the tribe, a nation or the World.

"Heck"  :) , that's why the world is in such happy and peaceful state...

Bingo!

Faryam Jan

Parts of the messge sound fine, but so do many other ideologies. Many messages are good but it does not make them Divine. The US bill or rights is a great document. I like it and subscribe to it. But I know it is of human origin.

There are parts of Bahai message that don't work for me however. Here are some:

1) I do not beleive in one god. I am an agnostic. Until I get verifiable proof I am not going to beleive in it. That is not likely to happen in my life. 

2) I don't want to be united. I like my individuality. I fear that unification will destroy innovation; variety and fun of life. I love a good argument and being a good Iranian I like to debate with people. Heck what is life for if I wanted to be unified with everyone anyway? 

Veiled Prophet of Khorasan

The logic of sectarians and cultists is zero sum. You either stand with them or you don't, and if you don't, you are an enemy. Period. Faryar here is leaving you no options or variety to even meet him half way. He is asserting that you either agree with him about his creed and blindly stand with him against its detractors or you are promoting hate. Love = his creed, hate = everyone else. Seagull has likewise expressed this verbatim to Marge on another thread. This is the kind of self-righteous mentality of a sectarian bigot that would at any point justify murder and any kind of violent act against a given detractor or even groups of detractors.

Do you all see now why I say the Baha'is are not to be trusted at their word of being the best thing since sliced bread? Behind the fluff and platitudes, they are the same old, same old sectarian bigots of old.

no faryar. i also wish to promote love. but you are deceiving

you don't promote love. you are promoting your religion by using love. love is an experience independent of faith in god and prophets. that is exactly why i hate religion. it exploits the beauty of love in order to promote itself. this is fraud. i still love you as a fellow human being, or an evolved primate I should say.

"Crush"

would you rather promote Hate?

there is no crusade here...

sorry, there is no "sight" , without the ability to see...

Facts are facts; if you choose to ignore them and judge without them; then you will continue to have negative contributions, as your history of comments testify...

Religion should be the cause of friendship; as I beiieve mine is.

Defending it against those who are its sworn enemies does not mean any hatred towards them; just sadness and pity.

None of my expressions are "tooting" or "parading"; only the uphiolding of facts, against relentless lies and opportunistic distortions.

what is real or "phony" is up to the individual. Belief can not be brought about by force or without ,love, logic and true understanding.

i read your comments to "crush", faryar dearest handsome

you are dashing..... anyway I think what you aren't understanding about my "there is no difference between your and their religions" is that it is still the same foundation. No proof for the sake of faith. 

aw faryar. of course it's always binary love (religion) hate

give me a break. try to see past the black and white worlds that religion makes you think in terms of. What I don't like is LOVE, PEACE, UNITY for the sake of religion or bahai, christ, muhammad, 12th imam of our times. You are tooting and parading. You always do and by you i am referring to the lovely religions. That's the entire reason this poor America gives you all tax breaks and doesn't charge you the fair taxes they should. You're supposed to parade the good intentions and charity. The catholic church doesn't pay taxes so they can give pregnant women a one way ticket to unplanned single motherhood. 

Dear "veiled"

Thank you for your comments.

Please read my comment to :"Crush"

The reason for quoting these , is to show the progressive nature of TODAY's religion in contrast with the criticism of the past, where "religion" has become only ritual, dogma and superstition.

These came to us Iranians first in the 19th century.

Adoption of each one , a hundred years ago could have transformed ourstill  backward society from so much suffering and misery. These principles are essentially what all reform movements want; they are the demanding spirit of the age. Nothing sectarian about them.

The Bahai message is a message of Unity; what they uphold is not the some obsolte doctrine;  totally irrelevant to today's needs; based on tradition and dogma recycled in the name of God and religion. That is what divides and causes wars. 

Who are we ?What  are we today to still blindly judge, what the rest of the world has adopted as common sense?

You must be fair in your judgement, my friend. 

• • the abandonment of all forms of prejudice
  • assurance to women of full equality of opportunity with men
  • recognition of the unity and relativity of religious truth
  • the elimination of extremes of poverty and wealth
  • the realization of universal education
  • the responsibility of each person to independently search for truth
  • the establishment of a global commonwealth of nations
  • recognition that true religion religion is in harmony with reason and the pursuit of scientific knowledge
  regards faryar

Re: would you rather promote Hate?

I don't beleive in any religion. If anyone wants to convince me then they need to apply logic not what Bahaullah; Jesus; Mohammad or anyone else tought. I think for myself and do not need dogma. I don't need a leader or a prophet. 

I do not worship heroes. Teachers are fine but right from the beginning I view them as regular humans. I listen to what they say, learn what makes sense and reject what does not. Religion demands absolute belief in a god; prophet and so on. Why should I accept someone else as my "guru"? I can make mistakes just as easily as the next guy. I rather people promote their own ideas not someone else's "teachings" good or bad.

Note Faryar's oozing sectarian malice and hatred

And note how my 19 Commandments are a heck of a sight better, and far more succinct, than anything uttered by Faryar's so-called avatar. This malice and sectarian hatred by Mansouri is nothing more than the fact that I have had the temerity and courage to proclaim my own personal prophethood against the claims of Mirza Husayn 'Ali Nuri Baha'u'llah. It does not even occur to him that, archetypally speaking, he is playing the very role of the ignorant detractor of a given theophany that his so-called avatar decries in the Kitab-i-Iqan. You have to love the Spirit and the providence of karma for turning the tables on the Baha'is and placing them in a situation where they get to stand in the very position and so play the role of those who they once condemned for their narrow mindedness.

Now if Mr Mansouri wishes, and consents, seeing how he believes he owns this site, perhaps I can post my 19 commandments as a whole here on Iranian.Com as a blog.  

[Crossposted to USENET]

would you rather promote Hate?

would you rather promote Hate?

there is no crusade here...

sorry, there is no "sight" , without the ability to see...

Facts are facts; if you choose to ignore them and judge without them; then you will continue to have negative contributions, as your history of comments testify...

Religion should be the cause of friendship; as I beiieve mine is.

Defending it against those who are its sworn enemies does not mean any hatred towards them; just sadness and pity.

None of my expressions are not "tooting" or "parading"; only the uphiolding of facts, against relentless lies and opportunistic distortions.

what is real or "phony" is up to the individual. Belief can not be brought about by force or without ,love, logic and true understanding.

Faryam jan

You are free to beleive what Bahaullah taught. I am free to not. I have full respect for your right to beleive what you want. But I do not beleive the same. What you are doing is the same as those who quote Koran or Bible etc.

While these teachings may be very meaningful to you they do not have the same impact on others. A Christian is deeply touched by the bible and teachings of Jesus just as a Muslim is by the Koran and teachings of Muhammad. An atheist is not touched by any of them. Respect for others entails respecting their right to not beleive your dogma.  Feel whatever responsibility you want; just don't impose your beleifs on me.

promote promote promote until you're blue in the face

how about these religions finally start tooting and parading when they achieve any of their bloody causes..... hey bloody makes perfect sense there! 

anyway keep up the crusades. it's as ill planned as the war on terror. but that's probably a good thing for the fighters involved. 

may the lord be with you. let your (cheap flash) light shine, phony god. 

Religion; The Undeniable Civilizing Force in History.

Bahá'u'lláh taught that there is one God whose successive revelations of His will to humanity have been the chief civilizing force in history. The agents of this process have been the Divine Messengers whom people have seen chiefly as the founders of separate religious systems but whose common purpose has been to bring the human race to spiritual and moral maturity.

Humanity is now coming of age. It is this that makes possible the unification of the human family and the building of a peaceful, global society. Among the principles which the Bahá'í Faith promotes as vital to the achievement of this goal are

• • the abandonment of all forms of prejudice
  • assurance to women of full equality of opportunity with men
  • recognition of the unity and relativity of religious truth
  • the elimination of extremes of poverty and wealth
  • the realization of universal education
  • the responsibility of each person to independently search for truth
  • the establishment of aglobal commonwealth of nations
  • recognition that true religion religion is in harmony with reason and the pursuit of scientific knowledge

"Tragically, organised religion, whose very reason for being entails service to the cause of brotherhood and peace, behaves all too frequently as one of the most formidable obstacles in the path; to cite a particular painful fact, it has long lent its credibility to fanaticism.

We feel a responsibility, as the governing council of one of the world religions, to urge earnest consideration of the challenge this poses for religious leadership. Both the issue and the circumstances to which it gives rise require that we speak frankly. We trust that common service to the Divine will ensure that what we say will be received in the same spirit of goodwill as it is put forward."

The Universal house of Justice.

In English:

//info.bahai.org/pdf/letter_april2002_english...

In Persian:

The paradox of Nima Hazini / Wahid Azal, & his 19 commandments.

The paradox of religion

VPK, we're in agreement that organized religion is a negative, evil force, and that it is a prison for the mind. But consider as well that behind the empty facade of organized exoteric religion does stand something else entirely and of a qualitatively higher order. All the mystics, gnostics and esotericists have known this, and all of them have come out of these very religions. Take, for example, a Rumi or Ibn 'Arabi who came out of the matrix of orthodox Islam and many, many similar to them. The same applies in Judaism with the Kabbalah, Christianity with Gnosticism and the various Christian Mysteries, not to mention in the Far Eastern traditions, etc.

Now one can assert that these mystics and esotercists have used the symbols and contexts of exoteric religion for their own purposes both to transcend it as well as to simultaneously protect themselves from the exoteric religionists and their legendary intolerance. But maybe it is also the case that such higher order meaning symbols and contexts, which is the ken and domain of esotericism, have been present from the beginning of these religions themselves deliberately placed there by the Pure Spirit in order to separate the wheat from the chaff. This is in fact what certain Isma'ili thinkers explicitly say about the nature of the shar'ia of Islam: they say that the shar'ia exists precisely to challenge the true adepts to surpass and transcend it altogether. In other words, religion for the true seeker of Spirit is like a password that once you enter the Spirit's domain you don't actually need anymore and so can discard at will.

Religions is a very negative force

I agree with all who oppose religion. No good has come out of organized religion. As my namesake proved some 1200 years ago anyone with chrisma can round up a bunch of people and become a prophet.

Unfortunately religions seem to have a need for someone to prosecute. Gay people have been high on the list of most popular religions. I prefer if we made religion a private matter and let people live as they want to.

Otherwise the intolernce that religions breed will come back to bite us no matter who we are or what religion if any we practice.  What do I care if someone is gay!

Religion is an Evil Archon. Religion has no purpose

Other than to imprison minds in lies dressed in half-truths. Religion is for sheep. The Reality of Spirit has nothing to do with religion on a primary level but rather with Truth. In fact the purpose of religion is nothing more than to separate the wheat from the chaff regarding this Reality. Yet behind all the bs and dogma the Pure Spirit stands for those who look and search hard enough.

If you want to find this Spirit, release your mind from the clutches and prison of religion to thereby enter the realm of Spirit and Truth. Crush the Bahai covenant under your feet. Deliberately violate the Shar'ia. Realize Christ is in fact the Antichrist. God and the Devil are One. Pour wine on the prayer mat. Kill the Buddha on the side of the road. Scoff at all the gods. Smoke a reefer and so interact with the Pure Spirit for yourself! :)

Religion 101

Can somebody besides Jesus, Moses, Mohammad, Wahid Azal and all the other prophets, explain the purpose of religion and Gods intentions as to provide a context and help sort the issues. 

Then Nima can tell us where the godhead stands on the issue of homophilicity and his provisions;-{)

I can see clearly now that the rain is gone!!!

Threats?

Who is resorting to threats other than you? But the more appropriate question is why are you continually resorting to outright lying and claiming to be an atheist when we both know you are a card carrying member of the Haifan Bahai organization?

Yes, my comments under NUR are there for all to see, and I put them there specifically for all to see. What is your point, again? But I am not Covenant, Ravian Bilani and all those other aliases you claim, nor even if I was is there anything specifically wrong with anything those individuals have done or said. Nor if you were an atheist you would care what I or those other aliases have done or said. But a Bahai would. However I have demanded concrete evidence from you to prove your allegation that I am those other identities, and except for canard, innuendo and big-lie repetition you have so far provided jack diddly squat.

And, yes, you live in Australia.

Finally, as for your claim to being a non-Bahai and atheist, I draw people's attention to the following:

Susan Stiles Maneck,
//bahai-library.com/bsr/bsr06/62_maneck_hikmat.htm
WISDOM AND DISSIMULATION IN THE BAHA’I WRITINGS: The Use and meaning of Hikmat in the Baha’i Writings

QUOTE

"In many cases hikmat calls for the apparent suspension of a Bahá'í principle in order to ensure the protection of the Faith."

Comment: In other words Baha'is may lie under any circumstance to ensure the protection of their organizational cohesiveness.

[Crossposted to USENET]

I live in Australia? LOL

How sad that you resort to threats as a last resort. What does my place of residence have to do with you or anyone else here? What a pathetic individual.

Your comments under NUR etc are for all to see here (and on blogs by Covenant who you claim is not you) and on the internet. Your motives are clear.

Ali9 jan

My mother was Roman Catholic, so tell me about it!  What Iwas saying was in UK they have homosexual priests and also some female priests. It is Church of England, but the society in UK is very tolerant so it has something to do with that too. I am no expert in religion but it seems some have progressed to allow acceptance of roles for gays and women in high authority even in the Church.