R2-D2

I know enough

Read pretty much through most of the academic literature on the subject and enough to know that it was creed of the Sassanian royal house.

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May we be amongst those who are to bring about the transfiguration of the Earth - Yasna XXX 9

i love the art of getting

i love the art of getting someone to say what you want to hear.  Well done AV, you got there in the end.  How much do you know of Zurvanism? 

Ali Mostofi

//www.alimostofi.com

Absolute singularity

Is Source, i.e. Ahuramazda. Everything else participates in levels of dualitude but not dualism. There is an important difference between dualitude and dualism because dualitude looks at opposites as complementary pairs rather than mutual antagonists. For example, male and female are the polar dualitude of the genus human being. They are not its dualism. You see what I am saying?

But going back to Ahurmazda and Angra Mainyu: as far as the Gathas are concerned when you read the text carefully, it and the forces of the  druj are not an energy because it is pure negation,  complete privation, nisti-e-mutlaq. And total negation has no reality other than in a figurative sense. So how can it have any kind of energy? Because privation being what it is, Angra Mainyu cannot be the pair of Ahuramazda. One can wax monistic on one level and say that Angra Mainyu from one perspective is merely the shadow of Ahuramazda and because of this it is already-always subdued in the bigger picture.

But what you are talking about in your last post sounds more like Zurvanism meeting Manicheanism rather than Zoroastrianism strictly speaking.

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May we be amongst those who are to bring about the transfiguration of the Earth - Yasna XXX 9

AV   I thought you had made

AV

I thought you had made your last statement.  You see how the difference in opinion, has created the energy which flows through us.

Ahuramazda did this when he created the material world so that Ohrmazd and Ahriman can create energy in the material world.

There two sides to everything.  There is no singularity. 

Ali Mostofi

//www.alimostofi.com

Materialism

Materialism does not "fuel...the principle of electricity." Materialism is a philosophical point of view that reduces everything uncritically to one level of matter and refuses to acknowledge anything beyond it. There are few bona fide physicists or even biologists today that are outright materialists. Modern technology aside, civilizations have existed without electricity who were responsible for building monuments that us moderns with our electricity and all our other technologies have not been able to figure how they constructed. The findings of science by themselves are neutral to any point of view. It is a perspective that makes them this or that, and where materialism becomes a fallacy is where it insists that there is nothing beyond its immediate empirical observation. Taken to its logical extreme, one could begin reasserting the earth is flat simply because empirical observation demonstrates it to be so. We now know this  not to be the case not just by empirical observation but also by other factors which are theoretical yet axiomatic but also simultaneously demonstrable.

That aside, you seem to be confusing a few things too. Mani's dualism saw the dualism of light and darkness as irreconciliable. People like myself do not look at things that simplistically.  Again, I am not a Manichean. If anything, I am a Neo-Zoroastrian Platonist or Illuminationist (i.e. ishraqi) for the reasons spelled out previously. First, just as modern quantum mechanics is now ready to accede, there are levels of matter. Limpid dense matter that we are used to knowing as matter is only one level. It is its lowest. Beyond this there are other levels of matter, one of which the ancient philosophers designated by the term prime matter/prima materia or hayula. Most quantum physicists have acceded the truth of this and call this level by a variety of terms such as quantum soup or even black matter.

Now you say that modern materialism creates the necessary situation for truth to be discovered. In logic this would be called a fallacy because you are assuming that truth exists by virtue of what you designate as its necessary conditions - which are actually secondary conditions and not necessary because the truth-in-itself is the necessity not its conditions. Either truth is extrinsic to any secondary conditions or not. Otherwise you are asserting that these secondary conditions are the substrate of truth, which is absurd, because you are also then asserting a "discovery" of such truth; and because you accede to such "discovery" you have already acceded that such truth already exists prior to any secondary preconditions you are predicating to it, and by doing so you have acceded that this truth existed prior to its discovery. That aside, 2,300 some years ago Plato proved that all truth is innate. For centuries, most traditional civilizations believed the same thing in some version without ever having known of Plato. It is only this civilization that is confused about what truth is.

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May we be amongst those who are to bring about the transfiguration of the Earth - Yasna XXX 9

 AV you state: "different

 AV you state:

"different contextual lenses"

What if this difference is Good, and creates the necessary situation for truth to be discovered.

"liberation from ...".

 What if materialism is Good.  What if the likes of Mani were wrong.  

In summary what if dualism fuels the principle of electricity.

Ali Mostofi

//www.alimostofi.com

Ali-e-azeez

I am not going to continue this discussion further because we are coming from completely different angles of the equation and have different contextual lenses as to how we look at these things. Generally speaking, I don't pay much attention to rank or who people think they might be either. I also do not put any iota of stock in folks who claim they possess fool-proof and literally precise methods of predicting events using astrology or astrological methods for stock market analysis and such similar things. These traditional sciences simply do not work like that nor were designed for that sort of purpose. Their purpose is for another plane of contemplation entirely. If however your method has worked for you, I applaud it, encourage you in it and wish you further success in its use so long as such use maintains your personal integrity without compromising it. But for me, using astrology for the stock market is like turning theurgy and white magic into a tool of sorcery and black magic. It is selfish and defeats the whole purpose of what a spiritual path is supposed to be about.

To me astrology is one of the handmaidens to the practice of the science of alchemy. Alchemy itself is a cosmological science with a metaphysical end in mind, and that is transcending the human condition altogether by spiritual resurrection (palingenesis) into a higher state of consciousness, and not getting further enmeshed in the contracted state of consciousness of the worldling with its reign of quantity. In other words the purpose of authentic astrology to me  is about qualitative transformation of the soul from a state of slumber to a state of full Awakening (such that you yourself become the Philosopher's Stone/Lapis Philosophorum) and not  a quantitative enrichment of the physical self. As such astrology and alchemy are basically tools for the perfectibility of the soul and its liberation from the tyranny of limpid matter and the dark, corrosive waters experienced by the collective herd consciousness and not the further cultivation thereof. This is the problem with the New Age  mentality and why I also believe it has gotten it all wrong about these things.

Ushta!

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May we be amongst those who are to bring about the transfiguration of the Earth - Yasna XXX 9

AV   Have you read my

AV

Have you read my analysis?  Do you know who you are talking to? There is twenty years of detailed day by day stock market analysis.  And the correlations are minute by minute.  Please do not use the word "dumb".  No one in the world does what I do, and I have had many students.  Please be careful.

Ali Mostofi

//www.alimostofi.com

Dumbed down Zoroastrianism

Is not Zoroastrianism, azeez-e-man. This attitude of wishing yo simplify things in the West, or dumbing them down, is the fast-food mentality to spirituality. The interplay of Ohrmazed and Ahriman comes within a larger context that needs to be taken on board. Because such complexity might be hard for some to comprehend does not invalidate it. The point is supposed to be about elevating ones conciousness to a higher level in order to understand these things, and not attempt to bring things down to ones level so that they may be understood at the level one is currently at. Believe it or not, this hatred of complex depth and wishing to dumb things down that is the hallmark of the fast-food approach to spirituality in the West is the flip side of fundamentalism and even breeds it.

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May we be amongst those who are to bring about the transfiguration of the Earth - Yasna XXX 9

AV, make it simple I only

AV, make it simple

I only look at the interplay of hard and soft aspects, like the interplay of Ohrmazd and Ahriman. 

Ali Mostofi

//www.alimostofi.com

Astrology

Zarathushtrianism is only one of several templates of my spiritual worldview and practice. I am actually an initiated Sufi and my Sufism is informed by the Illuminationist theosophy (ishraq) of Sohravardi and the Zoroastrian Illuminationist school of Azar Kayvan (considered by all Zoroastrians as one of the last great dasturs), i.e. the Sepassian. In other words I am more a Zoroastrian Platonist, like Sohravardi, than an orthodox exoteric Zoroastrian. That said, I know the astrological sciences (even work with an augmented scheme of 13 constellations where Ophiuchus is the 9th) since it is an intrinisc traditional cosmological science especially  necessary where alchemy is concerned.

Now astrology deals only with one domain of cosmology and its function is primarily symbolic for the initiate. It is a divinatory art (like a mandala) and not a tool of fortune telling or predicting the future since divination is not fortune-telling. This is the case whether you're dealing with the Vedic astrological model of India or the general Ptolemaic astrological/astronomical model used in the West.

That said, the question of dualism is an ontological question and not a cosmological one. As such making the distinction between a monotheistic Zoroastrianism for religious Zoroastrians and an astrological Zoroastrianism for others makes no sense whatsoever. It is a false distinction. When you are talking about dualism you are talking about ontology, metaphysics and first-principles. Astrology as a sacred science only serves as a symbolic tool to better comprehend ontology/metaphysics (just as metaphysics itself then serves to unpack the symbolism of the myths and narratives of scripture and establish, and so therefore locate, its geometric cartographies on a vertical plane) and not the other way around. No bona fide practicing Zoroastrian I know of - whether Iranian or Parsi - posits an astrological Zoroastrianism as counterpoised to a religious and monotheistic Zoroastrianism. These are counter-intuitive and nonsensical distinctions made by the attitude descriptive of the New Age mentality.

I am quite aware of the narrative of the pre-Zarathushtrian Mazdayasna. I am also well versed in the Avesta and the post-Avestan Zarathushthrian texts such as the  Denkart and the two Bundahishns (lessor and greater) so much so that I know that the semitic Jesus does not fit any traditional  Indo-Aryan Zarathushtrian scheme regarding the 6 saoshyants. In fact such a scheme is more Manichean than Zarathushtrian because Mani considered Buddha and Jesus in his pantheon of saviors (with himself as the last). This inclusion of Jesus into every scheme is  also one of the many quirks of the New Age, but has nothing to do with any Traditional understandings, whether in the exoteric form or in its esoteric depth. Besides other reasons, one of the things that many folks fail to understand as to the reason why there are to be 6 saoshyants in the Avestan configuration (rather than any other number) is because this scheme follows the outline of a beautiful  and profound correspondence whereby (together with Zarathushtra) the 6 Saoshyants represent in the human vehicle Ahura Mazda and the 6 Amesha Spenta such that  "as above, so below" and the principle of the celestial Heptad (Ohrmazd and the Amarahspands) is reflected on the plane of historical-time as it already is established beyond history. Thus the soteriology and eschataology of Zarathushtrianism is about an ongoing cosmogenesis initiated in illo tempore which is consummated when the 6th and last of the Saoshyants expels the counterpowers of darkness from the terrestrial world and makes the menok and getik states of the Earth one again beyond its current malefic admixture. But Jesus or anyone else is ipso facto outside of the traditional Zarathushtrian and Iranian ethnological worldview, which has nothing to do with any these figures, as the configurations of these symbolic narratives are autochthonously referential to the soil and soul of Iranians and not other peoples. As such Jesus is not a Zarathushtrian saoshyant as much as Christianity (as well as the other Abrahamic creeds) copied , used and rewrote for themselves from the narratival matrix of the Zarathushtrian worldview.

Tell me, beyond the astrology do you possess a basic daily Zoroastrian practice? Do you recite the Ashem Vohu and Yatha Ahu prayers or other manthras on a daily basis? How about the 101 Names of Yazdan?

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May we be amongst those who are to bring about the transfiguration of the Earth - Yasna XXX 9

Converting back to Zoroastrianism and Astrology of Iranians

I was the first Iranian who was initiated in London in the eighties. It is a long story, and in fact it is apt to discuss it here, as it ties in with all this Islamic stuff. Many Iranians are so called born "moslems". Many do not like that.  Then they go to a Zoroastrian Atash Kadeh, and they are refused there. In Iran they get killed if they "convert back".  And that is a stupid thing to say, as we are born Iranian, and it is in our aura to be part of the Zend Avesta thought.  We are all "Nowruzi" as it were. 

So what I did had happened to others and, I then found a person who told me of the people who are part of a new movement that Dr Ali Akbar Jafari started in California.  He came over and initiated us.  It is a long story.  I have met the Mobeds in LA and they know of what I do.  But they can't do anything, because their whole community in Iran would be wiped out, due to some agreement they made with the moslems.

Back to what we were talking about. AV, I know the subject very well, but as a Zoroastrian Astrologer.  Dualism is a simplified version of the old Persian/Hindu cosmology.  What you are saying is very religious.  With respect, that is not what I am saying.  You need to learn Astrology, if you want to understand what I am saying. And the hard part for most monotheistic Zoroastrians (which you are), is that they cannot accept that true real "Zoroastrianism" (if you want to call it that) has little to do with Zoroaster per se. Zoroaster was an Astrologer like Jamasp, but a more recent incarnation of one.  Jamasp predicted the various Saviours, and Zoroaster was the first one, Christ the second, and we are still waiting for the third one (even though the moslems think they have Halabi Qureshi).

So to sum up, Zoroastrianism is Astrological, like Hindu.  Many things in Rig-Veda and even the old Norse myths are the same as in the Zend Avesta.

There is more to say ... 

Ali Mostofi

//www.alimostofi.com

The nature of the twin forces needs to be understood properly

Amuramazda/Amesha Spenta = Plentitude, fullness, Being, Light

Ahriman/deevs/druj = negation, privation, non-being, shadow

These two are not equal. As such to call them even twin forces is incorrect. The Avesta has an esoteric aspect that needs to be understood beyond the literal words. To gain access to that you need initiation by a mobad.

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May we be amongst those who are to bring about the transfiguration of the Earth - Zoroastrian prayer

Cosmology and Haftseen

Iranians seeked to explain the world in Cosmological terms, just like the Hindus.  Twin forces appear in the very first chapter of The Zend-Avesta.

Btw there are seven Amesha Sepantas.  That is why we have Haftseen. 

Ali Mostofi

//www.alimostofi.com

The great distillation of Zoroastrian astrology

Is contained in the Greater Bundahishn. But I can also tell you that contrary to popular opinion, Zoroastrianism is not strictly dualist. Ahriman, the deevs and the Druj (the forces of chaos) are not equal to Ahura Mazda and the Amesha Spenta (the 6 Archangelic forces of Ahura Mazda). The only true dualist system is Manichaeism.

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May we be amongst those who are to bring about the transfiguration of the Earth - Zoroastrian prayer

He was here a minute ago

Must have gone to the bathroom

Hey aryana-vaeja what do you

Hey aryana-vaeja what do you know of dualism and zoroastrian astrology?

Ali Mostofi

//www.alimostofi.com

Sohravardi

This was a master of the first order and as far as I am concerned a Mazdean vakshur (prophet) as well. He wrote prayers in Arabic (obviously due to the audience he was addressing at the time) invoking completely Zoroastrian motifs and themes, even invoking Zoroastrain angels in Arabic, practically proving the power of the Mazdean worldview to transcend language and capable of asserting itself within the very contextual space and language that believed it had dominated it (i.e. Islam)! 

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May we be amongst those who are to bring about the transfiguration of the Earth - Zoroastrian prayer

A short Arabic prayer by Sohravardi (my trans. & original)

بسم الله النور الانوار

اللهمّ يا الهي و يا اله كلّ الهين ارفع ذكر النور و انصر اهل النور و ارشد النور الى النور يا نور على نور يا الله

دمت گرم ..... !

مرسی هوشنگ جان ..

The question is not "where is god"

The question is rather: "where is the next of kin" ?

ای خسرو خوبان R2 -D2

فردریکو گارسیا لورکا و شاملو

Hoshang (Please click on the links below):

Album

Audio Player

The mind is like any other

The mind is like any other muscle in the body.  Some muscles cannot lift things.  There are then some questions that the mind cannot lift through.  So don't ask anything about God.  That is the virus that will blow your brain apart.  And the worst part of it is that the society will blow apart as well.  

Ali Mostofi

//www.alimostofi.com

خدا در شعرهای فردریکو گارسیا لورکا

خصوصا "ترانه های شرقی " ( ترجمه شاملو ) ، به صدای شاملو است.

"The Biggest ...

Obstacle In A True Understanding Of God, Is God" .....

- Meister Eckhart (c. 1260-1327) German Philosopher, Mystic

(By that he meant the "Image" that we, human beings, create in our minds of what God should, or shouldn't be - His attributes - And, how he should, or shouldn't act - Very much creating an Image of  a "Personal" God in our minds - Which becomes the "Ultimate Obstacle" )

In the Eastern tradition, the concept is very much that of an "Impersonal" God:

The tao that can be told
is not the eternal Tao.

The name that can be named
is not the eternal Name.

The unnamable
is the eternally real.

Tao Te Ching

(by Lao-tzu, 6th century BC)

تهدید اندر تحمیق می‌‌فرمائید

It was like all the usual comments my "admirers" pass on me: misunderstood, misinterpreted, and misjudged. It all went as normal until I reached the post script: "...don't abuse your privileges!!"  Was that really necessary? Did I touch a raw nerve somewhere? Did I cause any offence? Where my pen might have slipped that caused such an unkind retort from this pupil of school of "love" and "tolerance?"  

We are all here on borrowed time. Please don't frighten a fatalist of fate.

FR

The heart,

in a heartless world.

*god* resides in the pituitary gland, of course

Let's get almost  Cartesian and pretend.

Btw The Golden Rule is a form of fascism. One is supposed to treat people as they wish to be treated, not as one wishes to be treated.  Otherwise, you'd have e.g. masochists , out of the go(o)dness of their hearts being up to all sorts of things.

And.

Please, I plead, please, oh please, no more *god*. Other fairy tales are fun though.

Uxbridge Urban Dictionary:

à la carte           -        a Muslim wheelbarrow

...

تا کی به تمنای وصال تو یگانه

اشکم شود از هر مژه چون سیل روانه

خواهد به سرآید غم هجران تو یا نه

ای تیره غمت را دل عشاق نشانه

جمعی به تو مشغول و تو غایب زمیانه

بلبل به چمن زان گل رخسار نشان دید

پروانه در آتش شد و اسرار عیان دید

عارف صفت وصف تو در پیر و جوان دید

یعنی همه جا عکس رخ یار توان دید

دیوانه ای من که روم خانه به خانه

دیوانه ای من که روم خانه به خانه