Ramin Tork

Thanks Parviz

Thanks for the feedback.

In this case the enemy of my enemy is not my friend!

We seem to repeat the same lessons, I hope that you are right and as a nation we have learnt our lesson but I sometimes wonder about that.

The  Green movement being spontanious and without leadership could become prey to the non-secularist factions who could prolong the life of IRI, I guess we all have to be a lot more alert and not make the mistakes that were made 30 years ago.

Religion and Democracy simply do not mix, so the dilemma for secularists is do we all stay with the simple motto of re-election under independent supervision or do we take this further which could create cracks in the movement.

I guess with the people inside the country being the drivers, we can only be here for their support.

P.S. I know Shariati was dead by the time of the revolution but his Akhoondist mentality was very much alive at the time.

I interpreted the cartoon

I interpreted the cartoon the way I did because Rafsanjani in green (the colour of the opposition movement) offers Khamenei (number one enemy of Iran and Iranians) the noose. One might get the impression that Rafsanjani is trying to hang this bastard and help the oppposition. 

While we all know that people like Rafsanjani, Mousavi, Rezai and... are amongst the first to be put on trial for the crimes they have commited against the Iranian people.  

I personally think the past 30 years have not been all bad. The best lesson has been that now most Iranians know mixing religion and politics was a big mistake. This in itself is a very valuable lesson. Most other countries who keep religion and politics separate have not learnt this overnight and have paid a price for it, like we are doing at the moment.

By the way Shariati had kicked the bucket by the time the revolution succeeded. He was found dead while in "exile" in England. Some claimed SAVAK had killed him but this was never proved.

Parviz

I'm not sure if we even do disagree at least on the political agenda at least for most part! Although it is nice to have debates.

Putting the cartoon aside, Rafsanjani is right now playing it like he is on the side of the people and with most people knowing his reputation we don't think he is on the side of the people, and wants to preserve the Islamic state. I think we both agree on this.

Back to Cartoon I was interested what aspect of it makes you think that the Cartoon suggest Rafsanjani is on the side of the people, more for feedback than anything. Is it that he is wearing green ( we know out of self interest he has shown an inclination towards the movement if only to save the Islamic state) or throwing a rope ( we know he is having conflict with Khamenei) , so what was it for you that brought the people into the equation, I was hoping you would explain. I'm being persistent because despite my earlier explanation you hold your reading to be true.

As for the revolution, yes it was a noble cause and Shah was showing his Totalitarian colours I think we both agree on this but given our History out of the of options for bringing in Democracy I think that revolution was a terrible option given the lack of institutions or level of general public awareness it was a mistake, inevitably a disaster when Shah had left Iran with an intellectual vacuum and left Akhoondist thinkers such s Shariati to be the so call intellectuals of the day.

The road to Hell is paved with good intentions, or do you disagree?

Having said that, today a velvet revolution that would completely get rid of the Islamic part of power and leave Iran with a secular Democracy is a good solution, and although the Green movement is spontanious I think ultimately it is what people want to acheive, though without clear leadership every faction is trying to milk the movement's cows.

I think short of Polpot or Rwanda I can't think of anything worst than IRI, and what they could had  done to the Iran, so hence the last two distictions of dealing with the last and current totalitarian regimes.

Dear Ramin!

I had no intention of questioning/belittling your work. You are an artist and therefore should be free to express yourself in a way you see fit. I just expressed my opinion. As you mentioned yourself, people look at things and interpret them in entirely different ways.

I would have had nothing against this, if the noose had been omitted. This somehow gives the impression that Rafsanjani is on the side of the people and wants to string up the "supreme leader". For Rafsanjani's main concern is the preservation of the Islamic Republic.

And by the way, I personally have to disagree with you on the "biggest disaster in Iranian modern history" theory. The intentions of the people during the revolution were noble and just. The Shah was a corrupt and brutal dictator. Just because the Mullahs turned out to be 1000 times worse than the Shah does not lessen the goals of that revolution. 

So we agree to disagree!

Good luck with your work.

Hi Parviz

Sorry to disagree, this is not showing him as the saviour of people, at least when I drew it that is not the message intended so I don't follow your critism. So hold back your blazing guns shooting!

In the cartoon he is throwing the rope at Khamenei with a promise to save his state and position which is why his message to the right wing leadership is to save their seats and Khamenei's leadership (but in a symbolic form) if they go along with him.

There is clearly mistrust between the two factions hence the rope is seen as a hanging rope by Khamenei, so if he is throwing a hanging rope it is out of his own interest ( and not the people), and in no other way people are mentioned in the cartoon so I'm not sure how you got the "Rafsanjani as the savior of the Iranian people".

I guess if we can learn a good lesson from history it is that just like the revolution ( biggest disaster in Iranian modern history) the Green movement could be hijacked by those who pretend they have the interest of the people at heart.

The second lesson which I already knew but keep being reminded is that a cartoon or any work of Art can be read in so many ways!

By the way I'm a de facto atheist and believe in secular democracies, you may wish to see my previous work to realize that! 

Now I have seen it

Now I have seen it all.

Rafsanjani as the savior of the Iranian people!

What next? Mousavi for president?

You must be kidding me, If that's what the people want, then what is wrong with the ones we have at the moment? Is Rafsanjani any better than Khamenei? Is Mousavi more democratic than Ahmadinejad?

Rafsanjani might indeed like to hang the "supreme leader" but he would love to keep the system that produces "supreme leaders".

Hi Omid

Well done, I left those slightly vague on purpose, basically leader is holding on to all the seats of power.

It's hard to see

...but I think rahbar is sitting on top of the handles of his chair, and his chair is stacked on top of several other chairs, and on the back of one of them it says basiji.  Rafsanjani is wearing a green cloack!  That's very interesting.