Ravian Bilani
به زبان فارسی
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THE THREE TYPES OF BAHA'I CENSUS
01-Apr-2010
A CHARACTERISTIC of the Baha’i administration is dishonesty in dealing with their census. This trickery takes place sometimes in the form of absolute exaggeration of numbers and misrepresentation in such a manner so as to falsify actual data.
We do not expect to find dishonesty and misrepresentation in the number of actual adherents. Yet this is exactly what we find in Baha’i Faith.This is to convey to the world that Baha’i Faith is very well accepted by the masses.”
Regarding their numbers, the Baha’is have indulged in gross exaggeration. Ask Baha’is about their numbers and "Millions" is the usual figure claimed by them. The Baha'i census claims that there are 6 to 7.2 million adherents of the Faith in the world which is nothing but a blatant LIE.
Baha’is Population in INDIA
The official Indian Baha’i site is actually misleading its visitors. They claim to be a 2.2 million strong community in India alone, which is obviously bogus and false.
One when looks at the Baha’i census of India whom Baha’i claims have largest number of Baha’is, immediately one will understand that there are three types of Baha’i census. All official.
1-Bahai Census projected by Baha’i Administration through their websites. They project about 2.2 million Baha’is in India.
[Ref: (1) //bahai.in/ ]
2-Bahai Census projected by Baha’i Administration in their newsletters and Annual Report. Here they are of the opinion that there are hundred thousand Baha’is.
[Ref: (2) Annual Report Ridvan 165 B.E. 2007-2008 ]
3-Bahai Census given by Government of India in their official census report.
However, the official census of Government of India has something else to offer.
Official census of The Government of India
A-Census of 1991
The official Census of Government of India taken in 1991 puts Baha’i population as 5,575 (2,966 men and 2,609 women)
[Ref: (3) Indian Census Returns, 1991, for the Baha'is of India.]
B-Census of 2001
The official Census of Government of India taken in 2001 puts Baha’i population as 11,324 (6,138 men and 5,186 women)
[Ref: (4) Census of India, 2001]
Baha’is are quick to point out that the official census is false and full of prejudice, as most of the census officers are Hindu and they do not carry out their work honestly. They are however slow in their observation that all Baha’i census are carried out by overzealous Baha’i officers and that no person should question their integrity!
It is not a hidden fact that the census conducted by the Government of India is carried out very meticulously by sincere and dedicated officers going door to door covering every household. Even if we give a 5% advantage it will not exceed 12,000. Furthermore, in questioning leading Baha'i administrators and other knowledgeable Baha'is asking them about the Baha’i population in India they have said somewhere between 13000, to 14,000. There was ready acknowledgement of the occurrence of what Juan called "fraudulent" teaching in his post.
Out of these 11,324 Baha’is,
1-Most of them are Persian
2-Some are those who have signed the card thinking that Baha’i Faith is a social organization.
3-Some of them have signed due to deception.
4-In Pune it was reported that Persian Baha’is have gone to the villages and they have asked illiterate villagers to sign the card offering the temptation that signees would receive some scholarship.
5-In Madhya Pradesh, Baha’i speakers have gathered masses giving some lectures and the speaker asking the question. Is there any one amongst you who does not believe in God? The audience responded ‘No’. The speaker then exhorted them to sign the card.
6-One of the Bahai official who visited India in 1984 claimed in his speech at the Baha’i Centre that he would have easily collected 200 addresses of people saying they are Baha’is although they gathered there under the name of a Medical Camp.
7-Many false addresses were given to acquire number of delegates especially in Madhya Pradesh and Uttar Pradesh.
Why should the Baha’i authorities wish to project an image more than its reality?
1-It is in order to present an inaccurate picture to the world (as well as to individuals considering conversion) and to make the Faith seem much more successful and influential than it really is.
2-These addresses are recorded as "Bahais" to show to the Government of India as the number of Baha’is to gain minority status by deception and to avail all the facilities and privileges given by Government of India to its minorities.
Conclusion
It was fairly apparent that declaring oneself a Baha'i did not mean that an individual was being put in the position of having to “leave” his own religious tradition (which in this case was primarily Hindu). The declared Baha’i for the most part continued to practice traditional behavioral idioms. Moreover there was little indication that they had abandoned the Hindu “world view”.
It originated from Iran the most of the high ranking officers are Persian with head quarter in Israel.
They have incorporations of Assemblies, cluster growth reflection meetings, administrative sanctions, deprivation of voting rights, elected arms, appointed arms, elections at local, state and national assemblies, counselors, auxiliary board members etc to fit requirements of an NGO and not a divine religion. Surely these are far from the conditions satisfying the requirements of major religions of the world.
My own conclusion was that the Baha'i Faith better fits the category of an NGO and not one of the eight major religions of the world as is claimed by the Baha’is.
My Iranian friends should not be made to believe that the world is full of fools. Rather they are living in a fool’s paradise. By simple repetition a lie cannot and will not become the truth. The Baha’i population in India is not more than 13,000 and in the world by any means they are not more than one hundred thousand. For a religion to progress and propagate, sincere service is required to attract the masses and not just lip services to attract the people and then believing that they have abandoned the religion of their ancestors. They cannot increase their numbers by Ruhi Books or by simply parroting Ana’s presentation.
FORMER MEMBERS OF
NATIONAL SPIRITUAL ASSEMBLY OF INDIA.
Posted by : Ravi Kumar on talk.religion.bahai
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| Defeat of the Haifan Baha'is in Federal Court of the United States of America | 15 | Dec 13, 2010 |
| Corruption in the Baha'i Faith | 2 | Nov 18, 2010 |
| Baha'i Faith in Russia | 2 | Oct 29, 2010 |
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And since the message with this evidence has been flagged
by Nur-i-Azal on Sat Apr 03, 2010 07:55 PM PDTI am posting the evidence for the Baha'i Internet Agency's public retraction of their earlier claim that I am an agent of the Islamic republic, here once again:
//groups.google.com.au/group/talk.religion.bahai/browse_thread/thread/372488e6b8a28ca5/bae820a382850514?lnk=raot#bae820a382850514
From:
"Finnegan's Wake" <finneganswak...@googlemail.com>
Date: Feb
21, 12:23 pm
Subject: New Domain for Bayanic.Com
To:
talk.religion.bahai
Well ... he'll not be accusing you of that
again. It's now completely
clear who you work for and it ain't the
IRI.
--
Also crossposted to USENET group TRB
Dangerous but completely useless ideas
by Nur-i-Azal on Sat Apr 03, 2010 07:46 PM PDTIs what epitomizes Bahaism from the very day of its rotten inception, however much you try to personalize the matter with total bollocks! Luckily I am not the first nor will I ever be the last to have said so point blank for posterity!
Amongst the recent 'urafa of Iran - i.e. shaykhs and actual Masters of Orders, forget about the Bayanis - the consensus about you people has been identical to mine on this issue as well. That these people don't say anything to you does not mean in any manner, shape or form that they disagree with me or are necessarily endorsing you. In my narrative, you people are one of the embodiments of what the Avesta characterizes as the counter-powers of Ahriman. You can put on as many faces as you like fooling people here and there, buying your way into as many contrived official expressions of sympathy as you like, but at the end of the day you are what you are: amongst the minions of what Mazdaeanism speaks of as the counter-powers of darkness; and in that respect, standing in your collective faces without flinching and speaking the Truth to the corruption that your creed represents, is a Supreme act of Love!
With that said, on the day I become even remotely characterized by a single item detailed in this blog linked below, then talk. Until then, my approach to you people time has actually proven to be the only effective approach possible and one directly sanctioned from on High, from where I sit:
//bahaicultfaq.blogspot.com/
This is my last response to you LOSERS here, and with that, boro zereshk poloto bokhor. Sard shod!
Ya NUR
The real Zereshk was for the irrelevent RB
by Seagull (not verified) on Sat Apr 03, 2010 07:03 PM PDTwho is entrusted with the task of demonstrating to the world that his/her ideas are useless, irrelevant and DEMONIC. A job that he/she does very well.
now repeat Salam so that you will know what i mean or you may chock on your own tears one day... that is Irfan.
Shalom Aleykom
That accusation don't fly anymore, Jack
by Nur-i-Azal on Sat Apr 03, 2010 05:45 PM PDTSince one of your most notable online BIA agents is publicly on record recently retracting it unequivocally. FYI:
//groups.google.com.au/group/talk.religion.bahai/browse_thread/thread/372488e6b8a28ca5/bae820a382850514?lnk=raot#bae820a382850514
From:
"Finnegan's Wake" <finneganswak...@googlemail.com>
Date: Feb
21, 12:23 pm
Subject: New Domain for Bayanic.Com
To:
talk.religion.bahai
Well ... he'll not be accusing you of that
again. It's now completely
clear who you work for and it ain't the
IRI.
---
So the Zereshk Polo baa Morgh is all yours! Get with your own program and script, Jack. And a reefer would do you personally a world of good....
Ya NUR
the real zereshk
by Seagull (not verified) on Sat Apr 03, 2010 05:26 PM PDTis the fear of extinction thru irrelevancy, the only relevant HoJJat left behind these late bloomers.
You keep the numbers and the reefer and I will keep the peace, that is MantegholTair, Shallom Aleykom.
Repeat Bismillah till Allah beats that jenn out of you
Probably on TRB
by Nur-i-Azal on Sat Apr 03, 2010 02:59 PM PDTWhere your BIA colleagues usually infest.
Address the point: why are the Iranian Zoroastrian and Jewish communities not as privileged in the mainstream HR discourses of the West to the degree the Haifans Bahais are?
Ya NUR
LOL
by Gavazn on Sat Apr 03, 2010 02:57 PM PDT"you are a Haifan Bahai yourself"
Where have I seen this accusation before? Well at least you didn't call me a moron as you did Ayhab , so I'll take it as a compliment. It is pretty arrogant for you to label people that disagree with you and think you are always right. But hey, noone is perfect right? And obviously reading books does not give one a secure disposition. Anyway, I will leave you to your prejudices and conspiracy theories. Goodnight.
Brainwashed = You and the BIA here
by Nur-i-Azal on Sat Apr 03, 2010 02:51 PM PDTYou are skirting around the issues, using a bait and switch argumentative tactic and so sleight of handing with bad logic without addressing a single point raised, which tells me one thing only: you are a Haifan Bahai yourself, Gavazn.
That said, if the Haifans Bahais believe they are a minority and shouldn't be picked upon, then, mutatis mutandis, by the same logic used here, the Orthodox Bahais, BUPC Baha'is, the Bayanis and assorted dissidents are even more of a minority than them and so should not be picked upon by the Haifan Bahais. But even there, no one is above criticism. And there is not a principle of HR I am aware of in the entire discourse of human rights that says some are open to justified criticism while others are not. This is hypocrisy, not HR jurisprudence or discourse.
Now kindly address the point as to why the Haifan Bahais have been more privileged in the HR publicity regime of the West and not the Iranian Zoroastrian community or Iranian Jewish community?
Ya NUR
Only crystal clear to the brainwashed
by Gavazn on Sat Apr 03, 2010 02:47 PM PDTIt is a highly prejudiced point of view, picking on one minority. You are free to write about injustices on any topic, including your own cult. Noone is stopping you, including Bahais. But you are trying to blame bahais and using exuses to trash them because You do not like them. And now you are trying to patronise me. I recommended you as "Knowledgable" in another blog, but I now regret it. Again I will say it, I liked you, but you are letting your anger take over your reason. Once someone behaves in a non objective manner, they have lost. And that is the reason you will always lose on this subject, because you are not objective. You are behaving out of anger and prejudice.
Anyway, I have made my position clear and can see we will not see eye to eye on this subject so I am leaving this blog.
Then you have no sense, Gavazn
by Nur-i-Azal on Sat Apr 03, 2010 02:34 PM PDTQED
The argument is crystal clear. Read it again several times, and slowly. Also, no one - and I mean, NO ONE - is above criticism! Period/Full-Stop!!
Ya NUR
Your argument does not make sense
by Gavazn on Sat Apr 03, 2010 02:30 PM PDTIt is just an excuse to pick on these people. You are saying just because the Bahi situation has been publicised you can take a smear campaign on them? Islam does much worse to homosexuals, but I do not see you bring that up here. And then to try to smear Captain Ayhab as well, or anyone else that disagrees with your methods is pretty childish. I know you will come back with along retort to me, but that is not just my opinion but the majority here. To call us a herd is denial. Perhaps you should consider why you get the type of response you get when you post these type of blogs. I think people just do not take you on any more because they know they will get back the usual type of put down comment and you are a headache. I agree with Captain Ayhab that your so-called intellect can be put to better and more positive use. The fact that you do not care whether the Bahais live or die sums you up. You are not for humanity but for some kind of revenge on these people. You have made many ugly comments of late and your posts have got angry. It is a real shame.
The Iranian Zoroastrian community
by Nur-i-Azal on Sat Apr 03, 2010 02:42 PM PDTHas been periodically subjected to the persecution and systematic harrassment of both the government as well as the orthodox Muslim religious society in Iran over the past 31 years. I talk to Iranian Zoroastrians directly which is how I know this. Yet barely anything gets reported in the West about it, or if it does, only as a sort of passing footnote. This community is also in a state of serious financial doldrums and so not as privileged as some more recent creeds who have a natural knack and talent for making money above everything else they do. Why have the Haifan Baha'is been made the proverbial persecution in Iran Prom Queen by certain interests and agendas of Western governments when either it has been totally undeserved or where they have needed to share the stage with many others, such as the Iranian Zoroastrian community? Now why the Iranian Zoroastrian community isn't as important or strategic to Anglo-European interests to support, to the degree they have done so with the Haifan Bahais, is anyone's guess; but it does make the whole HR violations discussion engaged in the West about Iran unfortunately totally disengenuous because of it. Even the Iranian Jewish community have not been as well reported on as the Haifan Baha'is have.
As far as I am concerned, the Baha'i HR circus in the West is about two things only: 1) big business and 2) Western Anglo-Euopean strategic interests in the Middle East. If this were not true, then why aren't the Iranian Zoroastrian community enjoying the same privileges and opportunities as the Haifan Bahais are in the Western HR community and discourse?
Ya NUR
Gavazn
by Nur-i-Azal on Sat Apr 03, 2010 02:09 PM PDTQuality over quantity also means not succumbing to empty hype, meaningless hyperbole and fluffy platitudes. The Baha'i human rights thing is that all the way. There are genuine HR violations occuring in Iran that go either unnoticed or unreported or even ignored by the mainstream Western media and attention because these guys have the financial and lobbyist muscle power in the West to keep the limelight exclusively upon themselves thereby monopolizing the HR violations discourse in the West regarding Iran to everyone elses disadvantage. Meanwhile all kinds things occur internally within this community and its peripheries involving it (like either against dissidents or former members) that can be contextualized in some contexts as genuine human rights violations, with they being (esp. their administration or "institutions") the violaters. Then they have the gall to outright support a draconian measure in Uganda (together with Christian fundamentalists and Muslims) that criminalizes homosexuality, as well as whoever knows about it and does not report it, in this process demanding others look the other way and make no linkage with this kind of behavior on their part and what is happening to them in Iran:
//iranian.com/main/blog/nur-i-azal/draconian-anti-gay-ugandan-law-supported-american-evangelicals-muslims-bahaispage2
Then they pull a Scientology in US courts and sue smaller rival Bahai groups for trademark infringement of the name Bahai and use of special religious symbols, etc, attempting to silence, intimidate and bully smaller groups with courts, lawyers and money.
If you think this state of affairs is justified, and that the Haifan Bahais are above criticism, then I submit you have no moral right to be speaking of human rights in any context since that would make you a creature of quantity and not quality in my book. Either we have a complete level playing field where the discourse of HR is concerned, or we have nothing other than a special interest imposing its political agenda. QED
As for Captain Ayhab: there's a consensus forming here that the guy is a complete moron. Go figure...
Ya NURWise words
by Gavazn on Sat Apr 03, 2010 09:25 AM PDT"Quality that counts not Quantity"
Shame that there are those using this website to undermine the Human Rights of innocent people and to create mistrust. I am with Captain Ayhab on this one.
Baha’is represent no danger to anyone
by sag koochooloo on Sun Apr 04, 2010 11:48 AM PDTI strongly disagree with you picking up with them in Iranian forums and accusing them of all calumnies, defaming and vilifying this wronged people even further. You try to make excuses just to write bashing blogs against them. Your venom does nothing but to instigate hate against this helpless and harmless minority. Here we are being attacked, torn apart and devoured by the Islamic republic and you are saying watch that ant because if it grows it can crush you.
You are humiliated by the Baha’is and are seeking revenge. This cannot escape any fair-minded observer. You are simply hatemongering and subjecting a group who has been victimized all along to more hate and victimization.
Furthermore you are fast in attacking the person who disagrees with you. You are motivated by personal vendetta and not by love of knowledge and truth. I praise the Baha’is for their conduct and their dedication to peace and unity of mankind.
If numbers are insignificant, then why you want to lie?
by Allahu_Abha on Fri Apr 02, 2010 12:06 AM PDTWhy you wanna deceive people by showing large numbers of baha'is? Why you claim that there are no sects in the baha'i faith when in a small time of 166 years it is more divided then any other religion. Internet is a proof and anybody can learn about the sects of baha'i faith which the baha'is don't want the world to see.
I found this interesting presentations for the non-baha'is and baha'is as well to learn about the baha'i sects.
This is interesting
by Allahu_Abha on Thu Apr 01, 2010 11:59 PM PDT"They have incorporations of Assemblies, cluster growth reflection meetings, administrative sanctions, deprivation of voting rights, elected arms, appointed arms, elections at local, state and national assemblies, counselors, auxiliary board members etc to fit requirements of an NGO and not a divine religion. Surely these are far from the conditions satisfying the requirements of major religions of the world.
My own conclusion was that the Baha'i Faith better fits the category of an NGO and not one of the eight major religions of the world as is claimed by the Baha’is.
My Iranian friends should not be made to believe that the world is full of fools. Rather they are living in a fool’s paradise. By simple repetition a lie cannot and will not become the truth. The Baha’i population in India is not more than 13,000"
Baha'is claim more than 2 million in India, when actual figure come to somewhere 13000. How about Iran then? Are there 300000 bahais in Iran or not more than 3000?
I agree with Dr. Azal regarding the so wonderful treatment of 7 insignificant Bahai in Iranian prison. Why r they being treated so nicely as compared to other prisoners, when they are involved in Anti-national activities?
delete
by Nur-i-Azal on Fri Apr 02, 2010 04:37 PM PDTdelete
Nur of Zulmat
by capt_ayhab on Thu Apr 01, 2010 06:06 PM PDTThere is no disrespect nor fohsh. Do not try and reach.....
You may fohsh and you will get kind in return, and worse. Much worse. Kind that will spin your head.
BUT
so what?
Question:
Show me you inner intellect, show me your true knowledge, and let me learn from you and teach you. BUT show me your inner hate!, despise me!, then I shall tear you to pieces.
your pick,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, no treats.
-YT
delete
by Nur-i-Azal on Fri Apr 02, 2010 04:38 PM PDTdelete
Show me
by capt_ayhab on Thu Apr 01, 2010 03:49 PM PDTVisit the thread and show us what you are made of.................
//iranian.com/main/blog/amil-imani/will-a...
-YT
P/S your personal agenda does not count, your sacrifice is what it counts
delete
by Nur-i-Azal on Fri Apr 02, 2010 04:39 PM PDTdelete
delete
by Nur-i-Azal on Fri Apr 02, 2010 04:49 PM PDTdelete
Good
by sag koochooloo on Thu Apr 01, 2010 01:46 PM PDTEnjoy yourself and happy 13th whatever. goodnight.
Tell me
by Nur-i-Azal on Thu Apr 01, 2010 01:34 PM PDTVaayyy, to keh hey eshveh beeyaa ;-)
What are you wearing, too?
Ya NUR
Money is no object for happiness
by sag koochooloo on Thu Apr 01, 2010 01:32 PM PDTAt least getting you intoxicated might calm you down.
PS: You'd never guess what I am listening to right now on the headphones :-))))))))))
Sure
by Nur-i-Azal on Thu Apr 01, 2010 01:30 PM PDTYou know how much a bottle of this stuff costs, though? The ones fermented from the original Vines, I mean?
Ya NUR
If that's what you want
by sag koochooloo on Thu Apr 01, 2010 01:28 PM PDTWhatever thine heart desires. All I want is happiness for everyone including you. :-)
Vaghteto beekhodee hadar nakon, 'azizam
by Nur-i-Azal on Thu Apr 01, 2010 01:25 PM PDTFormaldehyde baraaye khodet. Bottle me some Shiraz instead from the original Vines ;-)
Ya NUR
:-))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
by sag koochooloo on Thu Apr 01, 2010 01:25 PM PDTGood, better than wishing death upon people . Laughter Therapy is a cheap and great way to let off steam and pent up frustration.
Now one two three HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA ......
Perhaps you can be my patient, you make a fascinating case. I will bottle you in some Formaldehyde for prosperity as a keepsake. Love to perform some psychological experiments on you. :-)