Shorts

shorts..very impressive

nice work....I am happy to see people working hard for the cause of freedom.

Mr. Pirouzian

I meant to say something about your enlightened and enlightening comments on the other thread.  I will say it here.  I agree.

ما با رژیم اسلامی تعارف نداریم، اگر کسی‌ هم با پرچم سرخ با علامت داس چکش هم بیاید باید او را بپذیریم، اگر واقعا به دموکراسی معتقدیم. 

من حوصلهٔ چک و چونهٔ زیادی رو دیگه ندارم! خیر پیش و عزت زیاد.

Everything is sacred.

Likewise Mehrabn jaan. Live long and prosper.

Everything is sacred.

Anonymouse: Let's practice democracy

you said "After 30 years there is a cause to rally the troops.  Why spoil it? Green flags or no flags, if you ask me.   ........There is a reason all these organizers across the globe don't want various kinds of political flags and I can understand it."

Are you suggesting that the inherited , historic flag which belong to our ancestors since many century ago, is "spoiling issue" ? HOW CAN YOU JUSTIFY THIS SENTENCE?   

What are the reasons all these organizers don't want various kinds of political flags? . and who are these organizers?

why should we ban our flags? aren't we exercising our rights?, aren't we saying that in new Iran we will have democracy, transparency, freedom etc? why we cannot exercise our rights from now on? we cannot turn dictatorship to democracy with a flick of switch? We have to start from somewhere, and why not from here?

Like or not, in new Iran, we will have all kind of flags, and ideologies/groups/parties including but not limited to Islamic, extreme right, extreme left, monarchist, communist and anything in between, but all will be under one national flag, unless otherwise the flag replaced by a referendum, until then we do not have a plain three coloured flag, we do not have a flag with a Arabic wording in middle of it.  

There is another rally under the name of "Caravan for Peace" scheduled for the same dates and there the organizers have no stipulation and condition attached to their rally.

This is what was posted in another thread and I repeat some portion of it here:  

چرا شما و سازمان شما موضوع قدمت و اهمیت پرچم شیرو خورشید را به همه تکرار نمیکنید (نمی‌کنیم)؟ که این پرچم ربطی‌ به پهلوی ندارد. مشکل ما "طبق معمول جهل/نادانیست. حتما میدانید که چند وقت پیش مجلس اسلامی گذاشتن ۲ شیر سر در مجلس را تائید کار که دو باره نصب کنند ( البته هنوز نصب نشده ولی‌ مجلس موافقت کرده. شیر‌های که در روز‌های اول انقلاب پائین کشیده شدند ) ولی‌ این زبان نفهم‌ها هم، متوجه شدند که شیرو خورشید ربطی‌ به رژیم سابق ندارد ( رجوع شود به تا ریخ مجلس ۱۹۰۶)     

جنبش سبز یک حرکت است و رنگ این حرکت سبز است، ولی‌ پرچم ملی‌ ایران ۳ رنگ با علامت شیرو خورشید است، مگر آنکه با یک رفراندوم عوض شود، اگر به دموکراسی معتقد باشیم.

ما با رژیم اسلامی تعارف نداریم، اگر کسی‌ هم با پرچم سرخ با علامت داس چکش هم بیاید باید او را بپذیریم، اگر واقعا به دموکراسی معتقدیم.

   خمینی هیچ وقت بدون اتحاد چپ، راست، وسط ،مذهبی‌، بی‌ دین، زنان و غیره ، موفق نمی‌شد ، ما هم اگر اتحاد نداشته باشیم موفق نخواهیم شد، اگر هم شویم، دو ران پس از موفقیت از امروز هم بد تر خواهد بود.

Dear Anon,

This has been a great exchange with you.  I still think that the organizers should be clear about Freedom and Democracy if that is their objective.  also maybe allow speakers outside of the Reformist circles.  On the flag also I can understand why some may wonder why they are being censored at a rally for Democracy.    I truely have enjoyed our exchange we managed to stay on topic with very little Jabs ;-).  All the best to you.

If you don't want to be difficult then what's up w/ "face value"

What and what?! I'm saying if you call yourself a reformist, you're in good company because obviously you see things wrong that needs reform and change. 

At the same time, you can't be in favor of status quo (Islamist Jihadist Fatwaist) and call yourself a reformist.

I just don't want to diffrentiate since nothing is being reformed anyway.  You want to diffrentiate? be my guest.  Sure I'll take things as face value, I'm just that gullible.  When I go to this rally they won't ask me these questions.  It is a big rally and no one listens to anyone other than chant against Ahmadi.

Everything is sacred.

Dear Anon, are you saying that

all Reformists believe in the extension of the Islamic Republic?  and Democracy is not the end goal for any of them?  I am not trying to be difficult but there are so many gray areas I need to know what I am getting into.  I understand that it is easier for you to take things at face value.  

Islamist IS a dirty word based on definition of the word IS, is!

Of course Islamist IS a dirty word.  Did we even use this word prior to 9/11?  Now my definition of the word is, is based on contemporary time.  Other times religion and Islam had different overtures.  Today it is certainly not as popular as before.

As far as democracy, ey baba, if you really believe democracy is something that is not preached in these rallies or they really don't believe in it, then educate me and I will be damned if I attend any of them.  I am 100% sure democracy and freedom are both very important and the cornerstone of these rallies.  But that's me.

I don't diffrentiate between various kinds of reformists.  The fact is we had only one Reformist president and regime and under Khatami.  Now he didn't do a whole hell of a lot but whatever reforms we see are to his credit.

You can argue there are no reforms and I'd beg to differ.  Prior to Khatami there were no designer rosaries, no flip-flops for women, much more censoring of movies and a lot more international barkings and the list goes on.

I'm not here to convince you or anybody else.  I'm only saying don't label these rallies and be a party pooper.  This rally against Ahmadi in NY and what he represents is the only organized rally. I won't use another hollow canned slogan that you don't like but I think you get the picture.

Everything is sacred.

Islamist is not a dirty word either , About Democracy

The word Democracy appears once in lower case in a sub set of an article in the above blog.  Do you think that is how you rally for Democracy?  

Also about "Reformist",  I believe there are many "Reformists" (as oppose to revolutionaries) who are disillusioned with the Islamic Republic and want Democracy but they want this transition in a peaceful way.  To me they are the the Reformists.  The ones who believe in the rule of political Islam but want Mousavi as oppose to Ahmadinejad are to me "Islamist Reformists" (not a dirty word in my book either).  How do you differentiate between the two? 

Well Said, Mehrban

- "how should I refer to an individual who believes in the extension of the Islamic Republic but only has a problem with the results of the elections?"

AK69 

Bar Labe Goore Man, Avaz Bekhan

Reformist is not a dirty word.

Mehraban jaan where do you see the theme is not to support democrcay and freedom and where do you see this theme and such banners are not welcomed?  Of the tens of thousands who've attended these rallies since June 22nd outside Iran, how many do you think are Islamists?  How many wore hijab?  How many do you think believe in Islamic doctorine?  Be fair, vast majority of Iranians do not have Islamic values and want a lot more otherwise they wouldn't have left Iran.

how should I refer to an individual who believes in the extension of the Islamic Republic but only has a problem with the results of the elections?  A reformist.  A simple reformist will do fine.

The 1979 revolution had in fact strong religious overtones.  People believed the ideals of revolution for freedom and democracy would be achieved under an "Islamic" regime.  Many, millions, still do.  Had Mousavi won fair and square, there would've been changes.  How much change?  We'll never know.

Regardless as I've said many times in this very thread, if it was not because of the election we'd not be witnessing what we're witnessing which is a loud and ear shattering cries for democracy.  Yes democracy, is that loud enough?

Everything is sacred.

I second IRANdokht about her comment regarding Anonymouse

I also like Anonymouse 's thinking about green movement.

Help me out anonymouse

If Democracy and Freedom is the theme then why stay silent on the main topic?  Why not say hay this is a rally to support Democracy and Freedom in Iran?  

Also, please tell me how should I refer to an individual who believes in the extension of the Islamic Republic but only has a problem with the results of the elections?  ie, a person who believes in the rule of the Islamic Republic but thinks Mousavi should be president and not Ahmadi Nejad.   What ever is the right word in your opinion I will use. 

No flag or my flag or all flags. All Monica all the time!

DK jaan if no flag then no flag for NIAC/AIC/CASMII either? Why?!  If Reza Pahlavi organizes an event and asks the attendees not to bring flags then no flag for Reza Pahlavi either? 

They organize these events and they have the right to ask whatever they want, it is their event.  No one is forcing anyone to attend.  Don't attend.  They can't force a flag out of someone's hand either, this is not Iran. 

This issue simply shows the majority and minority views.  In this case the vocal majority (as opposed to silent majority in dreams who don't count) who attend and do not bring flags.

Everything is sacred.

Islamist Reformists to rescue selfproclaimd ists from extinction

Mehraban Jaan you see let me count how many ways you're labeling me, much less the green movement.

- do not try to silence voices

- try to bring clarity and cohesiveness

- using canned empty slogans

- you are saying that yes in fact these are Islamic Reformist rallies

Well if my attempt was to silence anyone I wouldn't be discussing the issue and who has ever been silenced in this website on any issue anyway?  My issue is your labeling of people who attend these rallies as Islamist Reformist or those are under Islamist Reformist banner.

Then you claim the 3 choices I provided are canned hollow slogans. What would be the 4th option? Divide and concur, muddy the waters, confuse the issues?

Thirty years ago Iranians wanted freedom and democracy and those dreams did not come to fruition and some say the revolution was hijacked.  Well those who hijacked the revolution are not trying to reform anything.  They want the status quo.  They've always wanted it.

Using a banner that says freedom or democracy is being more specific?  Use a placard and write on it freedom and democracy and see who would argue with you.  Your claim that freedom and democracy are not the banners of the green movement is simply false.  Your use of Islamist Reformist is in fact hollow. 

As we have witnessed so many times and continue to see this on a daily basis, at times hourly basis, this kind of discussions about Islamist Reformist Jihadist ist is, never ends so I'll be silent and those with louder voices can continue!

Everything is sacred.

IF NO FLAG Then NO TO NIAC/AIC/CAMII EITHER ;0)

You Want us Not to Carry Flags ?

Then Don't ALLOW NIAC/AIC/CAMII to speak in OUR NAME by Claiming to be the Spokespersons of These Demonstrations !

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtHSXuXoJvE&feature=related

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=och26QdEEF8&feature=related

THAT WOULD BE A FAIR DEAL DON'T YOU THINK ?

Hypcorisy Has its Limits ...

My Humble BUT FIRM Opinion !

DK

Anonymouse

I like the way you think about the green movement and I agree with your reasoning.

Well said and thanks

IRANdokht

PS: Anahid jan thanks for the link, I will donate too

Dear Anonymouse

Dear Anonymouse, in free and democratic politics as in life a lot depends on negotiations and discussions.  Please do not try to silence voices that try to bring clarity and cohesiveness into a movement by using canned empty slogans such as "lead, follow or get out of the way" It seems clever at the outset but in effect it is nothing but a terror tactic.   

I think you are saying that yes in fact these are Islamic Reformist rallies and so what?  Well the so what is that many of us who have been attending these rallies are not supporters of this group and would not attend rallies that would purely advance their agenda.   However, I will happily stand with a Reformist for the cause of Freedom and Democracy in Iran.   If Freedom and Democracy are in fact the themes of these rallies why are they not pronounced anywhere?  Should we not insist on their inclusion if in fact that is why we go to the rally?

Thirty years ago, Iranians wanted Freedom and Democracy, they just showed up and did not ask any questions they got the Islamic Republic.  This time don't silence us when we try to clarify matters.

I use "Islamist Reformist" not as a label but in an attempt to be specific.   

Your ignorance is amazing!!!

- "We ask that you please not bring nation flags. We all love our countries and their symbols but at this action we strive for a united event with a message that doesn’t appear factional. We offer people the option of a green-white-red flag with no emblem in the middle or with a positive text."

Freedom is what Iran needs, not more special interest groups like you making papel edicts from your self appointed thrones.

KMPAx2

AK69 

Bar Labe Goore Man, Avaz Bekhan

Great blog, Seems we are in good hands for demonstrations

I liked this blog and how people who are making these arrangements, seem to be doing a good job.  This morning, I will go to the link provided by them in this blog and listed as

PLEASE ALSO MAKE A TAX DEDUCTIBLE DONATION at united4iran.org

and I will make my donation.  I will donate at least $50.0.  Nothing like knowing my money will be used against a thug such as AN to make me feel I really want to donate.

Islamist Reformist Jihadist Terrorist Fatwaist (Fat Waist :-)

Mehraban Jaan it is easy to call anybody anything.  Glenn Beck calls Obama a Radical Communist!

This whole movement was born out of Iranian elections.  So yes this was an election under the Islamist Reformist Jihadist Terrorist IRI, if that makes it easier to understand.  Some people get a kick out of throwing out these phrases but what does it have to do what Iranians are doing in Iran?

Yes of course Iranians who voted and later poured to the streets wanted reform.  If reform becomes an agenda in Iran it is a step forward.  If it wasn't because of the reform movement we wouldn't be seeing huge demonstrations all across the globe, would we?

We can represent ourselves however we want.  We can even claim we represent Iranian people.  When news spreads around the world that Iranians protested Ahmadi's presence on Sep 23 and 24 there won't be a mention of any particular group.  They'll just say Iranians.

There will never be a movement that clearly identifies the best and brightest ideas and slogans, agreeable by everyone and least and certainly not the least followed up and acted upon verbatim.

Now without making this personal I believe the proper thing to do is either lead, follow or get out of the way. 

Everything is sacred.

Dear Anonymouse

If these rallies are Islamist Reformist rallies,  then the organizers should be honest about it.  Then people can decide for themselves to attend or not.  But calling for unity (with implications of Democracy) when in fact the agenda maybe purely Islamist Reformist is not fair. Don't you think?

Also it is very hard to really know what Iranians want in Iran.  They are under such a siege they can not safely express themselves.  The fact is they have voiced "Jomhoriyeh Irani" even under these circumstances.

Don't muddy the waters or MUDDY the waters?!

Who "else" is organizing events? This reminds me of the healthcare debate in America.  There is a group that trying to reform the system and control costs, if nothing else, and then Fox News and company who want to just kill the whole debate and reform.

Now if there are other 100% Iranian approved speakers and movements, where are they?  Last time on July 25th there were few couter-demonstrators with flags and all against the thousands who were under the green movement banners.

Mehraban jaan the counter-demonstrators were saying the same things that they don't want to go under the reform movement and want a total destruction of the regime, etc.  You can believe whatever you want and name these protests anything you like.

What is important is that these protests represents the strongest and most organized demonstrations outside Iran against Ahmadi, Khamenei and their cheating in the elections and the follow-up brutal crackdown that followed.

Same thing can be said against the demonstrations inside Iran that they represent reforms.  As if!

Everything is sacred.

Please don't muddy waters

I have gone to two green demonstrations, wore green and I went in solidarity with the people of Iran.   I am having a hard time justifying attendance at the demonstrations again unless there are some clarifications and changes.  I do not want to be a foot soldier for the Reformist movement. (It seems to me) that the demonstrations as they stand have a strong Islamist Reformist tilt (themes, flag, speakers).  This is not to say people should or should not go to these demonstrations.  It is each individual's choice.

Do not forget, people's showing up seemingly unified 30 years ago (no questions asked) to this day is being used to legitimize the Islamic Republic.   

Let's go! Sep 23 and Sep 24 and pounce on Ahmadi!

This is a good blog and has all the relevant information such as hotel reservations, etc.  I'd leave out the speeches as much as possible like leaving out the flags.  Let's save our energy for chanting against Ahmadi.

DK jaan whatever your view on flags, let's leave them at home.  You take a flag to the rally and what do you think will happen?  Knuckleheads getting into arguments about whether or not this flag represent Iran or that flag.  As we say in Farsi, what is an ant to make an ant's head out of?!  Morche chieye ke kale pachash bashe?!

After 30 years there is a cause to rally the troops.  Why spoil it? Green flags or no flags, if you ask me.  I don't want to argue, you can do whatever you want, anyone can do whatever they want because this is not Iran.

There is a reason all these organizers across the globe don't want various kinds of political flags and I can understand it.  They organize these events and we shouldn't be party poopers. 

Everything is sacred.

FYI/Please Read Comments Here

Please Feel Free to Comment regarding the following arguments triggered by Your "Imposed Conditions" against the use of National symboles such as National Flags:

//iranian.com/main/blog/noosh-afarin/rally-un-no-ahmadinjad-yes-human-rights

Best,

DK