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AnonymousObserver

Anonymous Observer

Mehrban, the kind and intelligent, you brought me back in. I've been trying to stay away from this site for a while for a myriad of reasons, even though I've been lurking and "tooping" in the background. But your post brought me back in --at least to the extent of posting a comment on this subject that is very dear to me.

I've been an atheist as long as I have been a vegan, which is about 2/3 of my life. I am a HUGE fan and follower of Dawkins, and have actually seen the video that you have posted many times. I have also read most of his books, including The Selfish Gene, Climbing Mount Improbable and the God Delusion. I've been to a few of his lectures as well. More recently though I've become more militant (not in a violent way) and vociferous about my atheism, and have evolved into more of an antitheist, in the mold of the late Christopher Hitchens, who coined that phrase.

I guess one of the struggles of those who want to break free of the chains of patrimonial religious belief is the question of morality. In short, one often asks herself "how can I be good in the absence of the guiding principles of religion?" The solution is set forth right here by Hitchens:



And here's more Hitchens on religion:



Take care.

Mehrban

Mehrban

Hi AO jaan, always nice to see you and thanks for the Hitchens links.
Knowing you through your writings on IC, I am not surprised that you know and have read Dawkins's work. I love one of his quotes that says that the creationist view actually belittles the elegance of the evolutionary world around us. Thank you again for breaking your vow of staying away from IC, for Dawkins and for me.

faraway

faraway

Fantastic video. Essential listening!

benross2

benross2

There are very few people, anywhere and at any time, who can truly be atheist. Not because of the mystery of the creation, but the mystery of being.
As long as the death is a fact of life, believing in afterlife overwhelms most of us. And this afterlife needs to be structured and rationalized at the level of our intellect. Religions and the idea of god(s) don't come out of stupidity, but out of inner needs.
But I do believe that the trend is from organized religion to individual spirituality.

Mehrban

Mehrban

Thank you Benross, you talk about inner needs. Dawkins does believe that there (may) be a gene of - to put it simply- (obedience to authority) that makes us seek religion. it will not be in the following video.

The following link will take you to a presentation that may change your life altogether :). It is called atheism and afterlife.

benross2

benross2

Thank you Mehrban. Being an atheist myself, most of my life, I stand by what I said and your video to me is just a confirmation of my comment. 'Believing' in nonexistence of afterlife with such flavour (somehow christian flavour) in itself is rationalizing and structuring the idea of death at a certain level of intellect. This spirituality is the trend I'm talking about.

Mehrban

Mehrban

Dear Benross, in Dawkin's view, it is not so much "believing" in the non existence of afterlife but "knowing" the non existence of afterlife through the evidence of science.

In that context (spirit)uality is supported in the form of transcendence but not supernatural (Dawkins again).

benross2

benross2

Thanks dear Mehrban. That's interesting.
I certainly don't want to argue with something I agree with. But I don't see belief in supernatural go away. It is getting more refined and more sophisticated. But It can not and will not go away.
My point is that at social level, giving up belief in god or paradise or the archaism of organized religions and so on is one thing, giving up a sense of continuity beyond death for our being is totally a different matter. I think the first one is the product of the second one. Not the other way around. Dawkins spirituality may be attractive to many. But I suspect most of them will be attracted to it religiously.
That's the nature of the beast.
Even you, you couldn't stop mentioning -jokingly- that this video may change my life altogether! born-again atheist maybe?!

Mehrban

Mehrban

I know that it may be hard to accept the idea that there will be no individual continuity after death. But from an evolutionary point of view, the continuity happens in the gene level by one's children or one's relative's children.

Born again atheist is an interesting concept :) . Thank you for sharing your thoughts I have really enjoyed having this conversation.

azadi5

azadi5

where did you get that quote from? it's not in the video clip.

Fred

Fred

This post deserves & requires Super Toop.

amirparvizforsecularmonarchy

amirparvizforsecularmonarchy I Love Waterfalls and Find One of the most humorous things in the world; is the notion that Americans are a greater force for good & more civilized than Nazi's, Mullahs and Communists.

Very good post, I agree.