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I am Sorry.

Balatarin

I would like to sincerely apologize to those of you insulted by my posts. If you have been insulted. I am sure the anger is seething in you. That the unwritten taboo of self deprecation has been broken this harshly. By a half-breed no less.

 

Some of you graciously tell me I am a relatively good writer, and encourage me to continue. Believe me it is harder than you think. The agony I go through having to plunge my pen into our collective back week after week is not as sweet as you might think. I almost always go into a relatively deep depression after each one, necessarily. The cost is beginning to weigh heavily I assure you. 

 

To be certain I am most definitely lying when I put on the hater face. To counter a greater lie. Call it anti-propaganda by the harsh impoliteness of cruelly cold truth. But more than the lies that some of us more often tell about Iran in our desperate desire to paint the least damaging picture of our current history, the truth always hurts far more than the lies.   

 

My observations of us suggests that most of us madly and doggedly stick to the desperate notion that merely adhering to the "company line" of fallacy and going along with the "emperor has no clothes" silly mantra. That eventually the emperor's clothes will become visible one day, that everything will get better, if we could all just stop complaining and stay quietly compliant and tame for a decade or two, or three, or now apparently four.   

 

I vehemently (but not violently) disagree with this capitulation with our captors. If their ideas were so great they would not need violent, angry and the harshest enforcement. If it isn't a prison they wouldn't need prison guards. And if it wasn't a great lie they wouldn't have to sell it this hard. If they loved us, they would not spit on us. And if it was what we all really wanted, we wouldn't hate it this much, albeit privately so the neighbors don't hear and report us for video taping ourselves dancing with smiling pretty girls.   

 

Above all else I now merely require 3 things from my fellow Iranians in order for me to continue this obvious possibly pointless madness.

 

First, that we all agree that Iran is a police state. Employing standard ironically western style and often Nazi force majeur crowd control and population manipulating propaganda tactics, both inside Iran, but more importantly outside Iran. They know how to use the dollars they have stolen from our people. And do so enthusiastically and with most definite delicious purpose.  

 

Second, we must all read the current Constitution of Iran. To read it in Farsi you will need an Arabic dictionary because many of the finer details are backed up by crypto-Arabic. I guess to encrypt it. But a good English translation is available here. The reason for knowing your constitution is that this helps to clearly frame the fraud being perpetrated. You need to know exactly how Oz really works to fully understand why it doesn't. And an Iranian election isn't one; especially when the Mollah "elected" is smiling this much.  

 

Third, we must object publicly. Not to each other. That may be too difficult given we have absolutely no aptitude or training for it. But to the outside world in order to counter the image that has been portrayed of the consummate modern day Iranian as a devout (less than 10% of Iranians come close to praying) and altogether humorless people who are inherently anti-world.  

 

By object, I mean to disagree with the proposition that this form of government is the BEST Iranians can have. That there are far BETTER forms of government than THIS type. And that above all THAT THIS EXPERIMENT HAS FAILED.  

 

I'm not advocating the overthrow of this government since that is illegal and frankly beyond me. I'm not insulting this government either since that is illegal too. And I do not wish to insult Islam either. I accept that some Iranians like to lead a Moslem life. But that does not mean our government has to.   

 

Help me by doing these things and I will keep up my end of the bargain. Keep in mind that if we don't stand up now, we will continue to be told to remain seated; and I think we have been doing that for too long. This trip has been too long and we all need to tell this driver to stop the jalopy of a car he forced us into. We need to get off it, and stretch our legs out a bit. And maybe see if we can't find a more comfortable ride to the beach.

Balatarin

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Mohamad.Purqurian

Mohamad.Purqurian Peace is not subjugation آشتی کردن تسليم شدن نيست

I have no problem with stating your opinion not matter how I agree or disagree with it. But I do have a problem when someone takes a driver seat and sets conditions in favor of his/her opinion. This is fundamentally wrong my friend. Yes, you and I may recommend readers to do certain things, e.g. reading the constitution, but asking them to agree with our opinion that Iran is so and so because we think it is so, violates the basic principle of any discussion group.

I am sorry to say this, but sometimes we need to look at the mirror to see the real dictator in all of us.

BehrouzBahmani

Behrouz Bahmani We're just trying to [change] the system / But it's hard from a distance / So it's time for a new better way

I think you are so afraid of the potential consequences of joining me in my "3 point plan", that you very rightly label it a "dictatorship" by me. It certainly feels like it no?

But it isn't. What it is, is a pact, or a treatise of a treaty between me and you. I agree to continue using my gift to write it, as long as you agree to the 3 points.

Agree that Iran is Police State
Read the Constitution
Object to this form of government

The first on is a semantic argument of facts. The second one is a private reading assignment. And for the third, I'm not dictating how you should Object. Or that you should do anything but be publicly opposed to the proposition that this form of government is the BEST Iran can field.

Seriously? You cannot agree with these 3 things?

EsfandAashena

Esfand Aashena http://iranian.com/main/member/esfand-aashena.html

@BehrouzBahmani see your response is what i referred to as your " cookie cutter" positions. Iranians KNOW no one is coming to their rescue, they always KNEW! They don't WANT anyone to come to their rescue! When they get rid of this regime is on their schedule, not yours!

AbbasEsfahani

Abbas Esfahani

So getting rid of this regime is one of those "khasten = tavanestan" situations? Good to know.

BehrouzBahmani

Behrouz Bahmani We're just trying to [change] the system / But it's hard from a distance / So it's time for a new better way

And how do you know that? It is easy to say, "I meant to be subjugated" when you are being held prisoner.

If it is as you suggest, then their "schedule" is too late.

The sooner this dog shakes off its fleas, the sooner we will all stop scratching.

HoshangTarehgol5

Hoshang Tarehgol An injury to one is an injury to all.

And Bahmani jan how do you know your "tactical nuclear attack" initiated "change" is not going to turn Iran into another Afghanistan or Iraq caught up in an eternal civil war continued for generations to come?
That metaphor of a "dog, shaking its fleas" is incredibly insulting & inadequate.
If you want to use a metaphor lets think of ourselves as those birds flying to find & meet Simorgh. We just need a deep collective reflection to find out we ourselves are the leaders we've been looking for.

P.S. You still haven't answered my query about you "tactical" nonchalance!

BehrouzBahmani

Behrouz Bahmani We're just trying to [change] the system / But it's hard from a distance / So it's time for a new better way

Iran is a Dog. AKA man's best friend. The fleas are the Mollahs. A Dog's worst enemy.

What's the problem? Or do you happen to buy into the other myth of Islam, that dogs are najes? If you do, let me know. Because I have a bunch of other myths to sell you and would love to take your money.

The Simorgh reference is inadequate because the Simorgh is mythical creature or one that does not exist and therefore we must not waste more time by putting our faith in imaginary birds.

Instead what would be more healthy for us as a people at this time in our evolution, would to imagine the Simorgh, plucked and feathered, marinated in fresh Iranain grown lemon juice, spiced with salt from the lake oroumieh, on a seekh forged in esfahan, being Kabab'd for a national meal.

I think that would help us send a nice message, gain our independence from not just oppression, but these now harmful myths that continue to keep us down.

No? :)

newsjunkie4

newsjunkie news,news,news

I don't understand why you are sorry for? Life is not a popularity contest! You have to understand that some of the most vocal voices ( on this site) are highly vested in maintaining the status quo will never agree with you. If you had millions invested in properties and lucrative import-export businesses through your connections with IRGC or Bonyad, would you want things to change??

BehrouzBahmani

Behrouz Bahmani We're just trying to [change] the system / But it's hard from a distance / So it's time for a new better way

Yes, but a popular life is a popularity contest. And what I want to see, is a "popular" life for Iranians. Or a life that is "enjoyed and liked by many people".

In short, I merely want those that advocate this life over a popular life, to admit they are wrong. That's all. I don't want them punished or anything, I just want them to admit it.

newsjunkie4

newsjunkie news,news,news

Dear BB: this site is disproportionately represented by in-house US-backed reformists or Islamist regime apologists. Their opinions is highly skewed. Don't expect them to go against their own bread and butter because their existence depends upon the survival of the Islamic Republic.

BehrouzBahmani

Behrouz Bahmani We're just trying to [change] the system / But it's hard from a distance / So it's time for a new better way

It's sad to see Iranians make such bad investments. Maybe its just a short term investment strategy. And as soon as the :"market" shifts the other way, type will divest and reinvest in the next "hot trend".

We should all be long term investors. By the time you net out, and cover all the "fees" you just don't make much playing these short future plays.

:)

HoshangTarehgol5

Hoshang Tarehgol An injury to one is an injury to all.

NJ is correct to point out how this is not exactly the space for a popularity contest, yet having principled opposition to Islamic Republic of Hell is one thing, using a hyperbolic, irresponsible discourse that condones usage of "tactical unclear attack" on Iran a totally different affair.
The worst part of all this is how closet & not so closet defenders of IR keep giving lectures on our Shia sectarians are not as bad as those Sunni sectarians, forgetting all along that one could not live without the other.
If Assad's regime hadn't pursued sectarian policies there would have been no opportunity for ISIS to exist.
If Maliki's administration hadn't pursued sectarian policies Izzat Ibrahim al-Dori would be either dead or still on the run, not commanding troops in the battlefield.
We'll probably be stuck with at least a decade, if not more, of sectarian strife in Iraq. Let's be as precise with our language as possible, and objective & accurate about all sides responsible for this bloodbath. Shall we?

BehrouzBahmani

Behrouz Bahmani We're just trying to [change] the system / But it's hard from a distance / So it's time for a new better way

Tanx You.

EsfandAashena

Esfand Aashena http://iranian.com/main/member/esfand-aashena.html

Look around Iran and what has happened in neighboring countries in the name of democracy and justice to understand why some people think the way they do.

For years in the old i.com and now, the Shia version of Islam, which happens to be the leading religion in Iran and thus the focus of many Iranians, was blasted as the more evil version of the two sects by our freedom fighters on i.com. Now look at what the other sect is doing and again compare it to what Shias have done or do.

I'm not religious and certainly was not raised or knew much about shia and sunnis and thought no one in the world would name their kids Omar, until I came to America! Didn't notice Omar Sharif at the time, thought it was one word!

So, keep up the good work but don't close your eyes to people's feelings in Iran. They are taking the brunt of this regime and their reactions aren't and shouldn't be as cookie cutter as you like them to be. good luck!

BehrouzBahmani

Behrouz Bahmani We're just trying to [change] the system / But it's hard from a distance / So it's time for a new better way

Not even by now? Will it really take another couple decades for Iranians to get it? That NO ONE is coming to their rescue? That they need to take their destiny into their hands?

Mustosheer

Mustosheer

Well Behrouz John, looks like it that You are approaching twilight Zone or I should say " Estekhare Zone". For a person getting into this boundary of unfamiliar zone, there should not be any conditions allowed. You respect us with your sorry comments at the beginning and slash us with conditions in the middle of your writing. Mossadegh did not set conditions for his legacies, people set conditions that ultimately put him in exile. Democracy is good on the papers but implementing it needs decisive educations with lots of lifetime experience.
As Iranians disposed the Shah to bring IRI into the actions by flip flopping on elected official named Mossadegh back in 1953, I am sure anytime they feel this "police state", as you called in your writing, will be eliminated by force or extra money on hand. So far for past 35 years or so the super duper money of western societies could not bring down the IRI. This means either the western societies did not really mean it or the IRI had a solid enforcement from most Iranian people with tactics that the country still is in one piece. But this wheeling and dealing did not happen in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Libya, Syria, Egypt, or so many other countries that were destroyed by super power named USA.
Iran still in one piece, my mom still has a roof over her head and my dad still buried in his tomb in peace that rather bomb to be dropped over his tomb they put flowers every month on his tomb.
So please don't over exaggerate Iranians and underestimate Iranians as well. They are not dummies. They are the creators of the so -called state police of Iran if there is one, and they are the freedom fighters of 1979 if they want to. It would be the matter of time to overthrew the IRI if they are unhappy to the point that life is unbearable for them in Iran.

As I said before; the bags of money is delivered to every Iranian inside Iran to do implementation of the power shift within IRI in positive way. The West has finally recognized that now dealing with IRI is more financially productive than fighting with them like before. The MONSTER of IRI will no longer creates a lot money for them so it is time to be friend with IRI and its people that so eagerly defended its territories for past 35 years. Of course there are elements of dissatisfaction within IRI that has to be addressed and eliminated as soon as possible.

BehrouzBahmani

Behrouz Bahmani We're just trying to [change] the system / But it's hard from a distance / So it's time for a new better way

So what you are saying is that you are a silent apologist and obediently believe the emperor has clothes.

- You are refusing my request to acknowledge Iran is Police state, using force to quell any dissent.
- You are refusing to read the constitution thereby confirming you do not wish to know how Iran works.
- You seem to be Objecting nicely though, so I will have no choice but to cheer your partial 1 out of 3 acceptance of my invitations and take heart in what I was able to get out of you.

It is certainly better than nothing. Even if collectively we have barely nothing to show for our merest objections.

Mustosheer

Mustosheer

Sooo.. what was the sorry letter? You are still the same as before; eager like a eagle- hungry like lion. We, Iranian, have had these before. Remember silence of the lamb movie, please watch it again. Please don't be sorry since you don't even have a respect for the Iranian inside and you want to decide for them. Ah ah ah .. no way Jose. They don't need you- You need them. Any way money is coming just get ready for collection.

amirparvizforsecularmonarchy

amirparvizforsecularmonarchy I Love Waterfalls and Find One of the most humorous things in the world; is the notion that Americans are a greater force for good & more civilized than Nazi's, Mullahs and Communists.

Bruce Bahmani don't do something crazy like take a trip and go to iran, I hope I am readinf too much into your apology letter and starting to make things up, because in Iran you will not be forgiven and will have major negative experiences, apology is not accepted by IRI, I know you love Islam, just like I do, kept firmly behind closed doors like other fantasies and fetishes. Keep the Faith My Hairy chin, Rishou Brother. I hope that you realize you are a fellow muslim by no choice, islam can not be refused, like the mafia there is no way out but the coffin, now that is what the great and learned wise and good priest ayatollah khomeini meant when he spoke of Freedom for Islam, wink wink, nudge, nudge, laughing at them.


and behind their backs all the way to eternity, because this interpretation of islam is so finished thanks be to God).

BehrouzBahmani

Behrouz Bahmani We're just trying to [change] the system / But it's hard from a distance / So it's time for a new better way

No no. Not going to Iran until it is free. Or apparently, never.

Actually I can quit eslam anytime I want because my mother is Lutheran, and all I need to do is say that I have studied both and to honor my mother am choosing to be a Lutheran. The key and trick is to say "you have studied" or thought long and hard.

What you cannot do is say you are an Atheist. That Islam forbids completely. So Iranian Atheists are technically Apostates, which means they could be subject to the death penalty if the wrong mollah gets the wrong bug up his Aba. or they could simply ignore you too. But techncially by publicly stating you are an atheist, as a moslem you would be insulting Islam and god (by publicly statign he does nto exist) and this attempt to leave Islam (while insulting it) is the act of Apostasy.

Which of course is why this kind of system has no business running a government.

Mohamad.Purqurian

Mohamad.Purqurian Peace is not subjugation آشتی کردن تسليم شدن نيست

IMHO, there is a huge difference between expressing an opinion and forming a political alliance to achieve a certain objective, e.g. defeating IRI in the hope of replacing it with a so called "democratic" one! I seriously don't think any government has more opposition groups than IRI has to do the latter. Anyone is free to form his/her own, join others or better yet try to unite them all. That is pretty much what the author calls a pact.

I am not interested in any of this for good reasons. Aside from having a sense of national bonds with my people, its culture, literature, and everything that is a part of my identity, I do not live in Iran. I live in the U.S. It means that I do not pay taxes to Iranian government. I pay my taxes to the U.S. government. So I have no rights except expressing my opinion about Iran and/or its government. In short, I will be a part of no political group for/against IRI.

Having that said, IMHO, the U.S. is more of a FACTUAL police state than Iran is. America has a population of about 6% of the world population, but has imprisoned about 25% of the world’s inmates. That is more than 4 times of its share AND she claims to be a democratic state! Yet, I have no problem with the author calling Iran a police state. It is his opinion, and I respectfully disagree. As I stated earlier, I do have a problem when he sets conditions for us, even if he calls it a pact. Yes, he is right. I am afraid of its “potential consequences” that is every one of us start setting our own conditions to share our opinions, e.g. replace Iran with hell, call it a global menace, and before you know it, there will be more conditions than comments making IC effectively a POLICE site!

BehrouzBahmani

Behrouz Bahmani We're just trying to [change] the system / But it's hard from a distance / So it's time for a new better way

This is not IraniansComplainingAboutEverythingExceptIran.com

Good points but you lost me at the claims that the US has a large prison population. And you will lose me

Let me remind you that it is a huge waste of our time as Iranians to fall for the temptation to avoid self critique by pointing fingers at other countries. Including the US. Especially if you live in the US.

There are two reasons for it:

1) You cannot compare the Apple of the US to the Pomegranate of Iran. Iran is less developed socio-economically than the US, is barely out of the third world developmentally, and has none of the experience of civic engagement and citizen participation in local governance tat the US has, so it is like comparing the 3rd Grade to a Masters Degree. I'm not saying the American people are smarter than the Iranian people are, but Americans know how to argue and debate. They take classes in it. Iranians don't.

2) Especially it undermines the argument and your credibility, if you suggest the US is "Worse" at something than Iran. WHEN YOU LIVE HERE! What you are saying is, I know Iran is better at this or the other, but I choose to live in a worse country anyway. and then suggest that this makes your argument credible. The normal sane reasonable reaction would be not live somewhere that is bad or worse.

To put the statistics in any sort of reasonable comparative terms, what you really need to ask is, "How many political prisoners does the US have?"

Because all you are proving is that the healthiest economy in the world, of a country with the highest quality of overall life in the world (adjusted for real happiness, not what Europe considers to be "happiness"), requires the cost of having a large criminal penal system. Which I think Americans would agree is a reasonable cost to bear for the fruits, given that no one is apparently complaining too loudly about the number of prisoners in the US.

But (since it's my post) I would prefer that you restrict and focus your critique and commentary to what's wrong with Iran, and ideally suggest how to make Iran better, and not drift off topic by looking elsewhere for other problems to lose focus on.

Mohamad.Purqurian

Mohamad.Purqurian Peace is not subjugation آشتی کردن تسليم شدن نيست

I do not fall for a fallacious argument. It is you who lost me not the other way around. I have never been tempted to avoid self-critique, let alone pointing fingers at other countries including the U.S. Quite to the contrary, I welcome the highest standard of criticism for both the country I was born in and the one I live in. But most issues are lost in self-serving slogans as if the panacea for all of our problems is to replace G.W. with Obama or IRI with unknown! Fallacy is self-evident in every single issue pointing to this panacea.

It is fallacious to call Iran a less developed country and expect a higher standard than that of the U.S. Like you said being smart or not has nothing to do with it. Your double standards do. In your words, Americans do have the right to “the cost of having a large criminal penal system”, but Iranians (despite undeniable crimes) don’t! Please don’t resort to a new fallacious argument of chicken first or the egg.

It is also fallacious to state “I know Iran is better at this or the other, but I choose to live in a worse country anyway” because it is not what I said to begin with. Then it is not a choice either. I might have made a choice (irrespective of it being right or wrong at the time) at some point in my life, but I have developed enough roots here making it impossible to move to another state in the U.S., let alone Iran. Furthermore, thousands (aside from the ones who abandon their citizenship for tax purposes) of Americans immigrate to less developed countries every quarter of a year. Does it make America worse or the less developed countries better? Neither, it is a matter of personal preferences, e.g. Atayash ra be laghayash bakhshidam.

Finally I have already made it clear elsewhere that I do know the risk of being misunderstood, let alone being labeled as such and such. I don’t mind. In other words, thanks but no thanks! Sorry for being blunt, but if credibility is so important to you, mind yours not mine. I stand with what I say. I have been wrong before and I will be wrong again. But I will change my position only on sound arguments against it not fallacious ones.

AbbasEsfahani

Abbas Esfahani

I was wondering if you could name any individuals who are currently imprisoned in the US because of their political actions, speech and/or beliefs (those imprisoned for crimes that are considered as crimes in the entire rest of the world do not count as political). Surely, a "police state", especially a "FACTUAL police state" (to use your words) must have many political prisoners, no?

Mohamad.Purqurian

Mohamad.Purqurian Peace is not subjugation آشتی کردن تسليم شدن نيست

Just use your favorite search engine for Political prisoners in the U.S. not to mention Guantanamo Bay or other disguised convictions.

AbbasEsfahani

Abbas Esfahani

No sir. If you make a highly dubious claim, it is up to YOU to back that up with facts and evidence, not to tell ME to go find it. That should be obvious. By the way, if you consider the jihadists imprisoned at Guantanamo as political prisoners, then we might as well include Charles Manson and Richard Ramirez too! Here is what Noam Chomsky, a very,very harsh critic of the US (who was also a professor at MIT -- that's what happens to critics of the US, they get highly visible, prestigious teaching jobs at top universities, not Evin Prison, in this so-called "police state") has to say:

"So, yes, the United States is a very free country, in fact it’s the freest country in the world. I don’t think freedom of speech, for example, is protected anywhere in the world as much as it is here".

"In many respects, the United States is the freest country in the world. I don’t just mean in terms of limits on state coercion, though that’s true too, but also in terms of individual relations. The United States comes closer to classlessness in terms of interpersonal relations than virtually any society".

Mohamad.Purqurian

Mohamad.Purqurian Peace is not subjugation آشتی کردن تسليم شدن نيست

Okay to name the one you asked for, how about Bradly Manning as the most recent one. I know you will justify anything in favor of the U.S., but against IRI. So, I do not waste my time arguing with you, for the rest of readers, I close my argument with the followings:

I respect Noam Chomsky, but I do not have to take his statement against solid evidence. Yes, Guantanamo is a place for political prisoners no matter who they are. And yes RENDITION is the utmost practice against political activists. And here is a google search of political prisoners in the U.S.

https://www.google.com/#q=political+prisoners+in+the+united+states

In fact, freedom comes with responsibilities and consequences. If not why should a free country need police or army to begin with?!

AnonymousObserver

Anonymous Observer

Just for clarification purposes, are you claiming that an armed Taliban member who does not belong to a regular army and who fights American and Afghan soldiers in the battlefield, and also Kahled Sheikh Mohammed, who masterminded the September 11 attacks are in GITMO because of their political opinions?

Mohamad.Purqurian

Mohamad.Purqurian Peace is not subjugation آشتی کردن تسليم شدن نيست

How dare you call all political activists (including those who took arms against Shah and/or Khomeini), prisoners because of their political opinions, but ignore RENDITION and the like of Bradley Manning to turn the spotlight on a few GITMO prisoners, let alone the rest of them who have not even been given a free trial?

Again, I respectfully decline to engage in futile arguments.

AnonymousObserver

Anonymous Observer

It looks like you misunderstood my comment. So, I will pose the question again: do you believe that Khaled Sheikh Mohammed, the mastermind of September 11 attacks on civilians, and Taliban members who engage in armed battles against U.S. and Afghan troops and civilians are in GITMO because of their political opinions?

AnonymousObserver

Anonymous Observer

Dear Mr. Purqurian,

"Having that said, IMHO, the U.S. is more of a FACTUAL police state than Iran is. America has a population of about 6% of the world population, but has imprisoned about 25% of the world’s inmates. That is more than 4 times of its share AND she claims to be a democratic state!"

Since you're comparing the U.S. with Iran, then the proper response (or question) to your above quote is this: so, what about Iran? Iran has 1% of the world's population, but it's the number 1 per capita (and number 2 in general) in the number of executions in the world. Wouldn't that more properly qualify Iran as a more brutal police state than any other nation on the planet?

Stats:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AonYZs4MzlZbdGJiUzRwTVhlM25DWDlPdjBmNURjOUE&hl=en#gid=0

Mohamad.Purqurian

Mohamad.Purqurian Peace is not subjugation آشتی کردن تسليم شدن نيست

I do not know what is the source of your data, but here is some relevant info:

"Capital punishment in Iran is legal.[1] Crimes punishable by death include murder, rape, child molestation, sodomy, drug trafficking, armed robbery, kidnapping, terrorism and treason.[2] According to Amnesty International, there were 156 death sentences passed and 360 executions carried out in Iran in 2011,[3] according to Iranian public sources 252 executions, thereof 5 women and 1 juvenile, were carried out during 2011.[4] The overwhelming majority were drug related (up to 74%), and almost all executions were carried out for murder, aggravated rape, deadly robbery/kidnapping, or large scale drug trafficking.[5]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Iran


Again, death penalty is a controversial subject to be explored, but are you saying murderers, rapists, kidnappers, and large scale drug traffickers, terrorists and so forth do not deserve death penalty?!

AnonymousObserver

Anonymous Observer

Source of the data is Amnesty International. Here's the link that will take you to it:

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2011/mar/29/death-penalty-countries-world#data

And yes. I'm saying that rapists, murderers, terrorists (and specially drug traffickers) should not get the death penalty. Death penalty has no place in a civilized country. That is why many European countries such as the UK, Denmark, Sweden, etc., along with some states in the United States have done away with the death penalty.

Incidentally, you seem to be an intelligent person. Are you claiming that Iranians are so violent, and have so many more murderers, rapists, kidnappers and drug traffickers than the rest of the world so that they end up with 500% more executions than other nations in the world?!!!

Look, you're going about this the wrong way. If you want to criticize the U.S. for failures in democracy--which seems to the the typical m.o. of Iranians whenever the IR is criticized--talking about the prison population is not the way to do it. The high prison population in the U.S. is not a result of a failure of democracy. It's the result of the failed "war on drugs" and "war on crime" which America has now realized and is taking the right steps toward alleviating. I'll give you a clue. If you want to criticize democratic failures in the U.S., you can start by things such as the Patriot Act. Hopefully I'll have a blog on the issue soon.

AbbasEsfahani

Abbas Esfahani

Dear AO, the journalist Paul Balta of the well-known French Magazine, Le Monde, investigated the issue and found that the Shah's regime executed about 400 people in the years 1941-1978 (including murderers, etc). The Mollah Regime executed over 600 people in 2013 alone and has already executed 342 people this year (not to mention the Reign of Terror and mass executions of over 10,000 Iranian men and women in the 1980s). What is the explanation for this HUGE surge in executions in Iran?

A) The Mollah Regime is exponentially more ruthless than the Shah's regime (no comparison really)

B) The murder rate in Iran has just SKYROCKETED -- that's a little hard to believe that it would go up so dramatically in just a few decades

C) Many of those executed for "murder" are actually being executed for other reasons, e.g. political, religious, being gay, etc

D) All of the above

http://www.iranhrdc.org/english/publications/1000000425-ihrdc-chart-of-executions-by-the-islamic-republic-of-iran-2014.html#.U6rM-I6u90N

BTW, why is it that people who denounce the US as a "police state", etc are usually the same people who defend the IRI's execution of, other among things, drug trafficking, kidnapping, being "Moharebeh", etc?

AnonymousObserver

Anonymous Observer

Dear AE, I think the answer to your first question is A & D. The answer to your second question is simple: because the talking points memo says so. :-))

AbbasEsfahani

Abbas Esfahani

AO, ghorbanet. Is it a "talking points" scenario? I think you're right.

I thought it was one of those "iron laws" wherein those who condemn the US/West/Israel, etc most harshly are nearly always the most forgiving towards the Mollah Regime/Assad, etc

Mohamad.Purqurian

Mohamad.Purqurian Peace is not subjugation آشتی کردن تسليم شدن نيست

I neither wanted to defend IRI nor offend the U.S. I simply stated some factual data. And yes, I do support capital punishment whether in the U.S. or in Iran. I do not live in Europe. So, let's agree to disagree on this issue.

While I do not politicize judicial issues, the population of Iran has more than doubled since 1941-1978, but death penalty was statistically only 50% more. It means crimes subject to capital punishment is statistically lower. So, yes, it is improved and no comparison, really!!!

This case is closed using your own data, and I will not waste more time on it except hoping for a society with ZERO tolerance for crimes instead of sympathizing with criminals. A society is civilized only when it is able to prevent crimes. Unfortunately, despite the way crime is punished in different places, no country is crimeless yet.

HoshangTarehgol5

Hoshang Tarehgol An injury to one is an injury to all.

It's amazing, but true, just how much of the political rhetorics coming out of Tehran for the past 35 years has been direct copies from the American Republican party; from mullahs adherence to most aggressive neoliberal economic policies to this whole outdated notion of ZERO tolerance in confronting crimes.
The ultimate irony of course is that if such zero tolerance was to be honestly, fairly and actually implemented, overwhelming majority of mullahs and state functionaries in Islamic Republic of Hell would end up behind the bar.

For an enlightened, contemporary, 21 century approach to crime prevention, see below and how the school or Restorative Justice tackles crimes at it roots and not just the symptoms:
----------------------------------------
Restorative Justice
While traditionally criminal justice systems have focused on punishing offenders and removing them from society. Today, criminal justice systems around the world are adopting approaches that minimize the effects of crime on people and communities and prevent offenders from committing more crimes.

http://www.justicebc.ca/en/cjis/understanding/restorative/

-------------------------------------------------
P.S. The school of Restorative Justice is not limited to Canada, and it has followers also in the US and Northern Ireland.

Mohamad.Purqurian

Mohamad.Purqurian Peace is not subjugation آشتی کردن تسليم شدن نيست

So, I guessed it right! Welcome back in a new pen name. I enjoy and welcome intelligent portion of your comments whether I agree with them or not . Apparently you do not miss mine either. How about if we just state our opinions, and let readers decide?

I am well aware of new approaches in criminal justice systems, and I do support any procedure leading to crime prevention. Yet when a crime is committed, I would side with the victim against the criminal for an equitable punishment. Period.

IRAN is a 4 letter word; so is HELL. I love the former to talk about. That is all.

HoshangTarehgol5

Hoshang Tarehgol An injury to one is an injury to all.

Mullahs have been cooperating with American Republicans for a very long time indeed.
In "October Surprise" a high ranking mullah from Tehran, probably Kaany, met with George Bush senior in Paris and assured Republicans that American hostages will not be freed until Carter was in office. They were freed only 20 minutes after Ronald Reagan was sworn in as president.
The same Reagan gave mullahs arms for hostages.
The same mullahs supported Republican led US invasions and occupations of both Afghanistan and Iraq.
How mullahs have practically copied their neoliberal economic policies from Republicans is too obvious.
This emphasis on "law and order" and "zero tolerance" on crime has also been a permanent part of Republicans rhetoric.

Hell is what Iranian women experience when they try to watch a Volleyball game!
Hell is Gender-Apartheid imposed on half the population of Iran.
Hell is what 30 million Iranians who live below poverty lines (all numbers according to IR's own statistics) go through every single day.
Hell is what all political prisoners in Iran have faced and experienced in the past 35 years.
Discussing Iran without discussing the hell Iranian people face everyday, or even worse intentionally ignoring and diverting the discussion is the greatest disservice to all Iranians and Iran.

Last but not least it is totally contradictory, not to mention ridiculous, to support medieval Ghesas and theocratic laws and at the same time boast and claim to be in favor of new approaches.

P.S. What do you think about the Legitimacy Crisis of Islamic Republic of Hell?

Mohamad.Purqurian

Mohamad.Purqurian Peace is not subjugation آشتی کردن تسليم شدن نيست

I respect your opinion, but HELL is where you entangle yourself in self-defeating SLOGANS. Anyone can list a lot of things wrong (or perceived wrong) with his/her country. Taking everything you said on its face value, you have offered no solution, but to replace IRI with UNKNOWN! Go for it!!!

I am not offended by your calling my position on different issues ridiculous after losing their relative debates over and over again, but I welcome your making a living example of what is wrong with our so called opposition. That is not to deny enjoying intelligent portion of your comments.

AbbasEsfahani

Abbas Esfahani

Mr. Purqurian, you state: "...but death penalty was statistically only 50% more".

I will give you the benefit of the doubt and say that you misunderstood. Let me explain: a TOTAL of about 400 people in the Shah's ENTIRE 37 years were executed by the state (certainly NOT 400 people by year, by any stretch of the imagination). The IRI executed MORE people in the year 2013 ALONE (just 1 year) than those entire 37 years COMBINED. Understood?

AnonymousObserver

Anonymous Observer

I'm sorry sir, but you cannot give a speech in a debate and declare the debate "closed." I am not sure what you're talking about when you say the statistics--using my numbers--prove something. Similarly, I am not sure how you're using these numbers to compare population growth and the percentage of executions. Are you using @AbbasEsfahani 's numbers? If so, you are wrong--by a HUGE margin. The fact remains that Iran is the number one per capita executioner in the world and number two in raw numbers. You have not provided a response to those statistics.

On the issue of capital punishment, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. I am, however, perplexed as to why Iranians--who are usually very quick to quote Gandhi as a reason why they are exercising "non-violent resistance" against the IR--don't pay attention to Gandhi's most famous quote: "an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind." There's great wisdom in that quote. Capital punishment creates--more than anything-- a culture of violence by legitimizing government sanctioned murder. Therefore, there's no surprise that countries that do have capital punishment (such as the U.S.) have a much higher crime rate than those that don't (such as Denmark).

Crime has been a part of human societies as long as human societies have been around. It has always been there, and it will always be there. Statistics have shown that capital punishment has zero deterrent effect on reducing crime. It's simply revenge, and, as I said above, revenge creates a culture of violence. Crime is a result of poverty, social inequality, lack of education and many other factors.

Mohamad.Purqurian

Mohamad.Purqurian Peace is not subjugation آشتی کردن تسليم شدن نيست

I am also sorry, but I did not deliver a speech. I simply stated my opinion as you did yours except for the fact that you use per capita when it is advantages to your argument, but refute it when it is not. That is not a debate I am interested in.

Furthermore, I am a vegetarian for humanitarian reason meaning I am against killing animals for anything except self defense. But I support capital punishment because I side with the VICTIM not the criminal. I don't believe in "an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" because without punishment ONLY victims would be left blind.

Last but not least, punishment has been around (side by side) with crime throughout history too. So the only thing I do agree with you is the fact that "Crime is a result of poverty, social inequality, lack of education and many other factors" except you conveniently summed up many devious human attributes into other factors. Nonetheless, I am happy to think we both share an implied belief that violence should be prevented for humanity to survive.

HoshangTarehgol5

Hoshang Tarehgol An injury to one is an injury to all.

The crisis of legitimacy for Islamic Republic of Hell which has been plaguing it from practically the moment of inception, is due to its basic theocratic nature and the unstoppable urge to monopolize all political and social power in Iran.
The net result of our anti-monarchy revolution of 1979 was basically a stillborn child, if you will; a religious monarchy, disguising itself as a “Republic,” but in reality maintaining and reproducing all main characteristics of a monarchy, this time instead of a crown using a turban.
Although this crisis of legitimacy was at first confined to the political struggle between the non-clergy “Liberals” and hardliners, resulting in ouster of Bazargan, the conflict has carried on from ousting of Bani Sadr, to ejection of Rafsanjani, to opposing Khatami, to incarceration of Musavi and now perhaps even to Rohany.
The power struggle over monopolization of power in the past 35 years has only intensified and now has all the appearances and manifestations of exhaustion for mullahs. From the embargo and sanctions trap that they walked right into it (“thanks” to the “genius” of AN) to the snail moving negotiations, to the brewing sectarian hell right next door (in large parts due to Shia sectarianism of Maliki who had full support of our mullahs and the Badr brigade) these are all issues that mullahs' usual remedy and reaction to all problems: ultra violent response, will not only resolve but just aggravate the problems even further more.
And as such these problems, let’s call them, structural crisis of legitimacy in Islamic Republic of Hell are what no IR apologist has any remedy for.