VOICE

خوب عزیزان مگر اسلام چه کم داشت؟

اینکه بهائیان اسلام را رد کردند دلیل مخالفت ایشان با اسلام بود. ایشان هم اگر در اکثریت بودند همین کارهای زشت را با مسلمین میکردند.

آخه مگر اسلام یا مسیحیت یا دین یهود چه کم داشتند، که شما خود را آلت دست انگلیسها کردید، و این کاسه گدایی را جلوی ما گذاشتید؟

ما را بحال خود بگذارید. هرکسی توی این دنیا یک دین پیدا کرد آورد به ایران و کرد تو کون آن ملت بیگناه.....

Bahais are not Kafars BECAUSE......

Bahais believe in ONE GOD.

They believe Muhammad to be the Prophet of God.

They believe that He is the LAST Prophet of the Adamic Cycle, but not the last Messenger of God, as they believe that God will never mankind alone, that he will always send down His messengers, as He Has done throughout the ages.

A KAFAR IS ONE WHO NEITHER BELIEVES IN A GOD OR HIS PROPHET, of course the Mullahs will accuse anyone of being a Kafar, if they are a threat to their very existence, especially if hey have land and property, in Tehran.

Bahai's destined to fade? My Jewish brother?

Dear Torontoman,

Not wising to argue about numbers..I must take issue with your rather unkind forecast that Bahai faith is destined to fade...

Could I remind you that Iranian Bahais are from every religious Background including Zoroastrian, Jewish, christian with majority of Muslim.You, yourself might very well have a dear Uncle, cousin or aunt who is a Bahai, may be even a Grandfather!

Your statement about "destined to fade" is understandable if one is to assume that your are poorly informed.

Two major kings, and dynasties, the NasirdinShah and Sultan of Turkey did their best to eliminate the Bahais, helped along with more than a century of cruel persecution by ruthless shia clerics..

Despite this, today The Bahais are no longer a minority Persian religion inside Iran, but grown to become perhaps the most united body of people of every background , race and religion living in over 200 countries around the world. The Bahai International community is well respected for its social and economic work,  because its teachings and principles are like a divine prescription of a divine physician come to heal an ailing mankind.

Now I hate to rub it in, but which is more likely to fade? A Religion which is daily growing because it fulfills a spiritual void in peoples hearts, whose only aim is to bring unity to peoples, races and religions, whose every spiritual principle is a practical approach suited to todays problems, or one whose laws and teachings have become a set of rituals and dogma,whose leadership only goal is self preservation through indoctrination, leading to ever increasing alienation of the educated to intermarriage and assimilation.

What is surely "destined to fade" is the one that has the least appeal to  a world that is desparate for Peace and Unity and whose teachings address that thirst... 

Baha'u'llah was forced to leave in Iran...

For all of you Anonymous IRI "scholars" who only have access to Mullah Propaganda, Nasiridin Shah Qajar  imprisoned Baha'u'llah (1852) and sent He and seventy of his family and companions into the hands of Ottoman Turks who subsequently sent him to die in their harshest penal colony in northern Palestine, called Akka (Acre). Many perished in that Prison including his youngest Son Mehdi. Baha"u'lllah passed away in Akka in 1892. Bahais built a shrine and today beaueautiful Gardens (known as Perian Gardens) that today is a favourite place of peaceful meditation for both Palestinian arabs and Israeli jews.

Nearby Haifa, where The remains of the Bab are buried, is today famous for peaceful coexistance of Palestinian/israeli Arabs and Jews.  

YES! to all the new posts / Fellini

YES!

Let's keep writing. Let's not give up. Let's drown out these voices of ignorance. We can do it but only if we don't give up.

*********

Fellini, you DON'T have to actively SUPPORT the Palestinians. All you have to do is continue to try to understand the situation fairly and objectively. If you don't feel personally called to the Palestinian cause, that's ALL you have to do.

Robin

Hope one day like most

Hope one day like most people on this planet we can stand up and take responsibility for our words and actions. We have been bringing excuses for our lack of struggle to do the right thing. this has been going on for centuries, loss upon loss, gloom over gloom.
It is us who need to come clean, face our shortcomings and fix ourselves once for all.
Excuses will no longer do, don't you see, read for yourself, This joint is like a mirror, see the extent of change that must be realized by us and no one else.
Let us do our share first, win ourselves over.
How long anger and blame and hate. How much more should we lose to this fear that is cheeping at the root of our courage and humanity.
the slanderers, the uninformed, the blind, the vile, shadows among us instilling fear and hate, none knows good so they teach hate by profession.
Get up get up, civilization starts with tolerance, how much of that have we got?
Who is going to teach that to us, stop feeling sorry for others for a while so we can pull ourselves together and think clearly.
Hate is not the way.

Unbelivers

If we assume Baha'is are kaafars, then the Quran lays out explicit instructions for dealing with their kind in Sura 109 - anything else would be "corruption of the Books" by mortal men.

QED

Bahai : Not mere words!

I thank "Alborzi" for recounting his first hand experience with what one Bahai Family experienced...multiply that by hundreds of Bahais who went to their deaths, refusing to recant what they believe; almost every Bahai from 16 to 90 stood proud in the face of that Mullah or Akhund and refused to recant his or her faith. hopefully an upcoming film see www.monasdream.com will illustrate the story of one young girl who was hanged in Shiraz.

Those few hundred Bahais and thousands before them during the Qajar era, stood firm to ideals that are the key to the rise of Iran and Iranians from their present depth and misery.

To Ashraf Pahlavi

Persecution of Bahais began before they were even Bahais, it began when they were Baabi. And that was before Herzl ever wrote his neo-Colonial collaborationist manifesto on Zionism.

It strikes me as odd that you speak of the "enemies of Iran" and the enemies of the IRI as one and the same and call yourself Ashraf Pahlavi. I guess it's supposed toi be ironic, but suggest that, in my humble opinion, your joke obfuscates, rather than elucidates, your ideological point of view.  Please choose a name that makes your position clearer, for the sake of smooth flow of whatever remains of intelligent discussion on this board.

Robin Goldsmith

Responses to A Question/Hypocrisy

The question as to what it is the backward elements of the IRI so fear about Bahaism is that it SPECIFICALLY posits a commonality of faith among ALL Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam), and more generally bridge-building with the other major faiths of the world. If Bahaism is accepted it destroys the possibility of so-called Shia Islam (actually the bastard child of historical Shiism and the political movements of Pan-Arabism, Communist International etc.) as the coercive tool of a totalitarian regime. Bahaism, dangerous in the days of the Qajars, is absolutely DESTRUCTIVE to the IRI's rationale for existence.

Hypocrisy as to Bahais visiting Israel--the fact that the Bahai's headquarters are based in Israel/Palestine is a historical accident. It happened because Ottomans Palestine was more congenial to them than was Iran, with their "candle-adorning" of those Bahais headed toward mass execution under the Qajars. This candle-adorning was the making of a human "Christmas tree' with candles in the flesh to ensure maximum torture preceding execution. Bahaism choosing headquarters in Palestine had nothing whatever to do with Zionism or the Israeli nation-state. It had to do with what the Ottomans could offer them, and what that well-known "Persian tolerance" could not.

And I wonder sometimes if those of you, those few but VOCAL ones who say the most OUTRAGEOUSLY offensive, destructive things to people on this board are the same ones who yap about Persian tolerance at parties.  Are you?

Robin Goldsmith

Reply to Annonymous HaHa

Listen you fuck faced Arab loving "noon khoore" IRI.

His post said, there are numerous mosques in the U.S. and Canada. Name one Church in Saudi Arabia.
Name one Church in U.A.E. Name one in Qatar.

Whats up with the likes of you and Jews and Israel?
Did a gang of Jews gang bang your grandma?

The crusades happened after Muslims killed thousands and thousands of Christians and conquered country after country including Spain. It was then and only then when Christians started shoving the flag of Islam back up their filthy Arab asses.

Same thing happened in the 60s. Arabs (Egypt, Syria, Lebanon and God knows who else) attacked Israel twice and they got their filthy asses kicked;not once, not twice but three times.

Go get a life....you keep hating Jews and Israel...its served your likes well for the past 500 years and specially the last 30.

Faramarz_fateh

idiot,they ( Bahais) built their shrine in another Muslim land ( and you assumed only Sudan,Yemen and Egypt are Muslim lands) that once was under the rule of the a Muslim empire called the Ottoman.If we Muslims are such bigots,then the shrine should not be there in the 1st place. wth did you bring a wahhabi nation like saudi as an example when Muslims could not even build a mosque in Athens or Cologne or Cordova?
The Chruch of Holy Sepulchre has been in Muslim land for 1400 years, why the hell didn't Muslims just destroy it? Could we not do that,idiot?The reason is because Muslims have learned to respect Christianity and Judaism eventhough we received Crusade and Zionist.

tolerance is a beautiful thing but I have little tolerance towards people who are shameless supporters of a nation that oppressed Palestinians. ( talk to me when you can look at Palestinians beyond their race).

Bahaiims

What a gutter religion. Its unblievable why people are falling for shit like this. Fuck All religions and Gods. Fuck Allah and Makkah and Madina. Fuck the the Quran.

discrimination should be condemned but...

The discrimination, harrasment and killings should be stopped. IR is a murderous regime, and shall pay for these crimes.

Having said that, Bahai religion is nothing more than an offshoot of Islam. As we say in Persian: "moorcheh chieh ke kale pachash chi zi bashe?" In other words, you have taken a totally backward, violent, and virule foundation to base the religion on. Bahaism has no more answer for modern problems than Islam.
All religions are the biggest scams created to take advantage of mankind, unless they are told as a mythological, fantasy stories. When people start talking about their religion as absolute facts, well, they are no more than simpleton cuckoos.

Its very sad

I wonder if posters on this site had to post with their real name, they would be as rude, vile and disgusting.

Why would one insult another Iranian's religion (or anyone's religion for that matter) just because they don't agree with it?

If you have true facts or figures, lets use this forum to inform and learn.

waste of time

Why waste your pressious time and write a letter to islamo facist monkey's like Ahmadinejad whose mentality belong to 9th century!
let's simplify this: the only good islamo facist is a dead one! had we learn this message 100 years a go, we would have been head by 200 years.

They are fine

We have had many friends who got caught, one of them was president of University (not Tehran the other one in Pahlavi) and they took all their belongins, the wife (they killed the husband who was a Doctor) the wife had to take our seconds, it was very painful, but to this day I do not understand why he did not renounce it and the wife did not think that is strange, it seems they are more into religion than us yahoos.

People please listen to my

People please listen to my words on this group: these people are the biggest hypocites on the planet and if you ever have doubts then go and meet and hang with their youth. They do all the things that they tell others not to do.
As far as their overall goals and such, they just want to be a power and nothing else. They lie about all their intentions. It is sad that their followers get mistreated in iran, I am against that for sure.
The main thing that bothers me about them is that they are liers (that is a big one). For example, they will treat a person who is not one them as a second class citizen and they will act a certain way in front of him and a different way behind his back. I have had bahai friends for many many years and it never fails that the ones who are religious devotees are the messed up ones and the ones who are just average people then are just that average like the rest of us.
Please don't buy into their crap, u r wasting ur time.

few clarifications

dear friends,

I have a few points that I hope will help fair minded readers in their judgement of the Baha'i faith.

Baha'u'llah was imprisoned and exiled to Palestine in 1867 ( about 80 years before Israel was formed )by the muslim governments of Iran and Turkey, so that is why our holy places are in Akka and Haifa.
you can compare this to holy places in Karbala and Najaf, which during the conflict between Iraq and Iran remained places of adoration for many Iranians. Does it mean that they were supporting Sadam Hossein?!
Baha'is like all other peace loving people hope and pray for a peaceful solution to the I/P conflict and are sadened by the injustices that result from any conflict.

secondly, yes, Baha'i teachings were revealed more than 120 years ago and are very advanced, that is why Baha'is are so passionate about them. we believe that they are practical solutions for many of today's problems. please investigate and make your own judgement.

Investigation does not mean just reading one "raddieh" but please read a few sources both for and against the Faith.

and if after investigating, you feel that Baha'i faith is cult, this should not deny us our basic human rights in Iran, regardless of our numbers.

there has been many innocent lives lost in our country, and regardless of their ideology we should be saddened and try to prevent any futher heartache for our fellow iranians or at least sympathise with them. live and let live, is it too much to ask?.

regards

Get to Know what you are commenting on.....

I am amazed by the comments this article has got so far. Seen some comments about Bahai's here and then it is finished with "what are you?" and so on. i think it is a good idea to get to know the subject before expressing views on it. You don't have to like it or dislike it, just investigate it.

WHAT IS THE BIG DEAL?

YOU PEOPLE,(NOT ALL) ARE FUNNY AND STUPID AT THE SAME TIME. WHO CARES IF THEY ARE 5 MIILIONS OR 50 MILLIONS OF THEM?? WHO CARES WHERE THEY BUILT THEIR TEMPLES?

WHAT'S SO GOOD ABOUT ISLAM? NOTHING...
ZERO ZILCH..NADA...

I PERSONLY KNOW SOME BAHAI PEOPLE, THEY ARE VERY RESPECTABLE, EDUCATED PEOPLE. THEY HAVE HURT ANY ONE..NEVER FORCED ANY ONE UNLIKE ISLAM WHO SHOVED THEIR ISLAM BY FORCE AND SWORDS.

GET REAL GUYS. HAVE SOME RESPECT FOR EACH OTHER, DO NOT RAMBLE LIKE A ISLAMIC REPUBLIC. IT IS VERY LOW.

All religions are businness

All religions are nothing but business. Major ones dominate the world and smaller ones try to get a bite of the market share.

And following that line, anyone can see that a sound businessman would never let a competitor sell his product in his shop.

The reason other religious minorities in the Shia shop are allowed to operate is because they are selling a different product. Bahai's, on the other hand merchandise a product that declares the 12th Imam has been here. This product would render the Shia product obsolete. And no businessman in his right mind would allow such a thing.

It would be like expecting the Vatican State to allow other religions carry out missionary activities on the Vatican ground. Or Microsoft allow Sun Microsystems to use its premises.

14 million jews in the world.

dear bahai,
before you start writing a letter to anyone even to our own hajiagha in Iranian.Com, please get your damn facts straight !
there are 14 million jews all over the world! the whole bahai's population is about half of tehran's population, dude stop trying!
your religion is destined to fade!
couple of more generations, and it will be history and probably won't be missed!
what exactly are you ?jews?Jewslims?

Question to Bahai's: Why do you collaborate with Zionists?

Your collaboration with Iran's enemies may be the reason for IRI government f%@ing you.

First things first!

Most religious minorities in Iran cry about how unjust the Iranian government has been towards them. While that may very well be the case, it presumes that the Iranian government has treated its Shia Moslem majority any better. From what I know, since the Iranian revolution well over 100,000 Iranians have died in Iranian jails, and I would venture to say that perhaps the overwhelming majority of them have been Shia Moslems. And as far as religious persecution is concerned, I would also say that more Shia Moslems have been persecuted for not following their faith, as Bahai's have been persecuted for following theirs. If you're going to pick a bone with the Iranian government and ask us to sympathize with your plight, don't categorically exclude the Moslems in Iran which have suffered the brunt of what the Islamic Republic has had to offer us for the last 28 years. Because the way you've portrayed the situation is as though everyone is having a grand old time, and Bahais are being burned at the stake. Which you and I both know is not the case. When was the last time a Bahai was publicly executed? I can't remember if it has even occured. How many Moslems have been publicly flogged and executed? THOUSANDS!

Too bad your point was lost on 3/4 of the posters here!

This guy is talking about basic human rights and some posters are arguing about actual population numbers!  OK, there are only 1 million Bahais, no 100,000 Bahais in Iran.  Should they be screwed because there are more Jews than them?

So what the Bahais go to Israel?  Could they have built a memorial for their prophet in Saudi Arabia?  Iran?  Egypt?  You fuck faced Arab ass kissing morons who post this bull shit about supporting Israel.

There is not even a single Christian Church in Saudi Arabia.  But there are 500 masjeds in the U.S. and Canada.  These Americans are Canadians are morons.  They should turn these masjeds to public restrooms.

You like Arabic-Islamic culture so much, what the hell are you doing here?  Go live in Sudan or Yemen or Egypt.  What are you doing in U.S. or Canada? 

I KNOW these morons who have posted this BS on here are NOT representative of us true Iranians.   Iranians are better than this. 

You Bahais need to come

You Bahais need to come clean, man! If you are such a loving people, how did you end up having your mecca in Israel!?! I had an exposure to Bahai friends. They seem to have really peaceful and polite face but god knows what's deep down in the epicenter of one's heart. I found it to be more deceiving. I'm puzzled to see the commemoration Bahai's hold in Israel.

Please get real; How did Bob efendi message become so in tune with modern mankind vision? Did he really teach all this mumbo jumbo words:
1) Unity of God
2) Unity of religions
3) Unity of mankind
4) Equality of sexes
5) Harmony of science and religion
6) Independent investigation of truth
7) Progressive revelation (every several centuries, God sends new messengers for continued spiritual education of man)
8) Elimination of all prejudices
9) Elimination of extremes of wealth and poverty
10) Universal compulsory education
11) Universal auxilliary language
12) Establishment of Universal Peace

All this said, I agree with freedom of religion. It is the undeniable right that God has given to humanity and it shall not be taken away by anyone or nation or religion. however, I do not agree with freedom to destroy human values, but then this is partially secured by civil laws in most nations. I mean, I don't know if you agree to a religion (like satanic cults) that preaches bad values? Will you let it be free to destroy human values?

The other question about your #7 tenant:
I think this is self-destructable tenant to Bahai faith. Suppose a messenger come tomorrow and has a word from God that Bahai faith is fake, and thou must not obey the teacings of Bob Efendi. What would you do?

Peace to alll humanity;

this is nonsense

The real nonsense are these posts. Being Iranian is a love hate relationship on one hand I love it on the other hand when I read some of the Crap that gets posted I realize how backward we really are. We are working so hard to disprove each others beliefs that we don’t take a moment to listen to the other side. Yet we’re so busy not investigating anything on our own we have no problem using the limited information we have to push the agenda of other people forward. Iran arguably the most dynamic country and culture in the world, where its people are caught up in a discussion over Baha’is being agents of the British there are so many other things to discuss and we are stuck on an issue that some akhond preached about 50 years ago and now Iranians believe it as a reality. PLEASE I AM BEGGING EVERYONE TO MOVE ON ….. 

Question (not related to subject): I am Iranian; I am not supporting Israel so why do I have to support Palestine what has either group done for Iran and/or Iranians?  

Kourosh Sassanian, Had the

Kourosh Sassanian,
Had the Yazdgerde sevvom humbled himself before the great Prophit and had accepted his invitation he would have spared the great multitude of Iraninas and
things would have taken a different turn. But alas the pride got the best of him and many were sacrificed for his lack of wisdom. Following pride without substance is a mighty error to the wise!

To haha (2)

Your point is well taken, I should not accuse you of being part of the regime. I have no knowledge of that. Due to my job, I travel all over the map, India, Israel, Japan, China ... so you can not accuse me of a collaborator to other governments, it is just a job. My point is that we should start worrying about IRI rather than Israel. IRI, kills the kurds, Azari's Arab Iranians, Bahais and anyone who doesn't think like them. I think IRI is a bigger criminal than any regime that I can think off. So, stop picking on Israel and start worrying about IRI.