I'll call it NOWRUZ, if you call him OWBAWMO

NOROOZ is the most phonetically correct spelling

Share/Save/Bookmark

I'll call it NOWRUZ, if you call him OWBAWMO
by bahmani
24-Mar-2009
 

Once again, it begins again.

One of the signs that the new year is upon us, is the continued debate surrounding the Yarshater camp (more on that later) spelling of NOWRUZ.

And every year it seems, someone brings me flawed data to support this aberration and attempt to amend common English phonetic rules.

Now don't get me wrong. Here's my point:

- I am in no way suggesting you must spell it my way or that I even have a "way".

- I say that NOWRUZ isn't as successful a spelling as is possible.

- I do not think we need to have one correct spelling. Just look at Hannukah.

This year though, I was presented with yet another reason that I must agree to be coerced into using NOWRUZ;

UNITY

It was told to me, that we must all accept NOWRUZ to show we can unify and as a sign of Iranian community solidarity.

To be sure you the reader understand this, because I bet some of you will undoubtedly have an opinion, I'll carefully craft this next sentence.

I'll even space it out so you can fully digest what you may be about to comment for, or against;

NOWRUZ, according to established, undeniable, unamendable English phonetic rules that govern the likely pronunciation of words written in English, is pronounced as; (ready?)

NOW as in: HOW NOW BROWN COW

RUZ as in: RUG, BUG, HUG, MUG

So our most positive and precious asset in cultural relationship building, if spelled as NOWRUZ would rhyme with COWBUG.

Got it?

NOROOZ is the most phonetically correct (more on proof later) spelling. But for some reason choosing the obvious and more importantly, phonetically correct spelling, is not an option for building unity. Apparently.

So yeah, there's UNITY now.

The Yarshater camp, since their unauthorized, uninvited, and self imposed assignment to get UNESCO to record NR as a unique Persian cultural heritage trait, somehow got onto spelling it as NOWRUZ. Claiming that the top Persian language linguists in the world all agreed on the NOWRUZ spelling as best.

The flaw as it appears to me, is that to identify the best English spelling, you would consult with English linguists not Persian, then say the word to them as you wish it to be pronounced in English, and ask them to write it in English, so native English speakers could pronounce it correctly themselves, whenever they read it in books and papers, unaided.

Unfortunately according to this "New Unimproved English" being pushed by the Yarshater camp via their coercion in getting numerous publishings, and press releases by the White House, congress, groups like NIAC, and naively supportive foundations like PAIIA and WIKIPEDIA, you'd have to also spell OBAMA (also not a traditional English word) as OWBOMO. OW to get that same desired Yarshater-Persian inflection. And BOMO, to get the rest of it the same way the Yarshater camp wants you to speak.

And of course, all of this is supposed to make total sense. Ask or question it, and you are apparently, quite the un-Iranian, as this new unification demand goes.

Even though I knew it, I figured I'd have to test it. You can't just be right these days. You need a survey to suggest anything in the Iranian universe.

So I tested the NOWRUZ spelling. 96% said it WRONG!

I then tested NOROOZ. 98% said it CORRECT!

But don't believe me or my survey. Please, do your own test. It's super easy. Here's how:

Step 1: Ask 100 Americans if they know the name of the Persian New Year. (If they do, give them some shirini and tea, wish them a happy new year and move on to someone else.)

Step 2: If they do not know the name of the Persian new year, show them the word NOWRUZ and ask them to say it out loud. Do the same with a different group of Americans using NOROOZ and record the results.

And this would be the end of this discussion. If we were not Iranian. For as all Iranian disagreements go, the one who is wrong, almost never admits it. Especially if they are older, like the Yarshater camp, and especially if you suggest they are wrong socially or in public. For if you are younger, you must have stacked the deck, or you must have done this or that or some other sneaky trick to make them look wrong or mistaken. It is never a mistake on their part. Always you are wrong. And shame on you for your dis-respect of your elders.

Now with this latest attempt to bring UNITY in as the leash to heel everyone who spells it purely phonetically, the NOWRUZ gang has shifted it's oppressive tactics to playing on your sense of community.

When are you ever going to learn to do the right thing, and accept this embarrassing spelling? Huh? When? Can't you see you are being disloyal? Just because you think our spelling is wrong doesn't give you the right to stop us from using it.

WTF?

And so goes the argument or non-argument, updated with UNITY, this year. Always made defiantly. In total denial of any slightest possibility for error.

The government of Iran has also, by the way, finally weighed in on this recently. And true to Persian form, has sanctioned the official government spelling as; NOROUZ.

Go figure...

HAPPY YOU KNOW WHAT...

Share/Save/Bookmark

more from bahmani
 
Daryush

What?

by Daryush on

If you think it's best to say norooz it's fine. I think Nowruz is better, the most important thing here is consistency. We must be consistent.
Regardless I like to add that the Iranians in LA and some in other Western countries ruined the word Persia by adding Farsi instead. This problem will become more obvious once the newer generation stops relating Persia with Iran all together and in the future the word Persia loses its importance, as it will be used less and less in the vocabulary. Then for Arabs would be easier to replace the Persian Gulf, since there is nothing to relate to Persia!
It's a big mistake to take that word from the future vocabulary. It's all the fault of the Iranians out of Iran, no one else. And many still fight against it, as if it's better to use Farsi instead. I don't understand it at all.


Multiple Personality Disorder

Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz!

by Multiple Personality Disorder on

.

Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz!Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz!Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz!Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz!Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz!Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz!Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz!Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz!

Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz!Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz!Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz!Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz!Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz!Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz!Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz!Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz!Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz!Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz!

Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz!Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz!Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz!Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz!Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Norooz!

Happy Norooz to you Mr Bahmani

  


default

"Because of the negative

by Norooz (not verified) on

"Because of the negative connotation. If you don't get that then you are one of those who also promotes the use of Farsi instead of Persian."

So because of negative connotation we should ask our wives to change their names from Ann to Anita?

As for Farsi and Persian, nothing to promote but there are different uses. Here someone said it as a poetry perhaps it is easier this way, although I doubt it.

//iranian.com/main/2009/feb/iranian-or-pe...

"now(as new or present) ruz" See how silly this is? Now means new. Present ALSO means new! Mix and match as you please.

You are just inventing stuff and it gets funnier the more this goes on. I love it!


Daryush

It's now rather than no

by Daryush on

Because of the negative connotation. If you don't get that then you are one of those who also promotes the use of Farsi instead of Persian.
It's not an opinion, it's a research done by some people smarter than you to realize what is a better spelling and why.
We can pronounce it norooz and write it in a word that makes the most sense, now(as new or present) ruz.
You want to get technical about the language, go and figure why there is an H in why or L in Walk.

Aman az dast e nadaan. A crazy dude does something that 100 geniuses can't fix. This is one of those stories. Dude, it's not your choice, just follow and believe that those who know and want this done, know more than you. End of the story.
And it's Persian not Farsi. It's not Farsi Gulf. How long are you guys going to brag about Iran and hurt it at the same time?


default

Rahgozar and Ferdowsi

by Norooz (not verified) on

I think you guys have written one too many Fortran programs or HTML codes. So now we have to mispell Norooz because of "Unipers protocols"?! How charming. How come united unipers couldn't spell it right?

I think they did it just to piss us off and test the waters. They wanted to know what to expect when they try to get another uniper protocol for changing Persian Gulf to Arabian Gulf. Nothing against Arabs but the name of the place is clear and so is the spelling of Norooz.


gol-dust

Thank you! Tired of Iranians who don't know how spell NOROOZ!

by gol-dust on

After living here for over 30 years we still haven't figure this out! Amazing! Norooz it is!


default

It is not an English word so do not try to pronounce it that way

by Ferdowsi (not verified) on

You cant spell Nowruz as it should be as you trying to approach it as an English word!

based on Unipers protocols at www.unipers.com it also should be spelled as Nowruz.

Do not treat it as an English word. people who knows multiple languages can get the point.

It is not an English word so do not try to pronounce as if youre reading an english term. Basically, your approach is wrong.

Based on the the Unipers protocol, it should be written that way and has to be spelled and pronounced using the universal Persian in Latin rules. its that simple. For the same reason FERDOWSI is spelled using W.


default

NOWRUZ not NOROON

by Iraniii (not verified) on

NOWRUZ to me is the best way to spell it not NOROOZ!


Rahgozar

Nowruz

by Rahgozar on

Dear Bahmani,

The "universal" spelling of Nowruz arizes from attempts to standardize Persian writing in Latin alphabet. The goal is to be independent of conflicting spelling rules in different European languages and to adapt to the requirements of Persian pronunciation. As an example and for additional detail please refer to this page:

//www.pejman.com/perphon.htm

Rahgozar.


default

آقای امیر کبیر

Norooz (not verified)


آقای امیر کبیر آخه تصدقت برم، قربان اون شکل ماهت، الهی که درد و بلات بخوره تو فرق این سر آقای بهمنی، آخه چرا داستان میگی‌؟

شما میگی‌ چون این آقای یارشاطر، که انشا‌الله نور الهی ازشون میباره، گفته ناروز ما هم باید کف بسته قبول کنیم. د آخه این که دلیل نشد. یک عمر مگه ما تو آب انبار زندگی‌ کردیم؟ آخه انصاف هم خوب چیزیه. بابا جان این آقای یار شاطر وقتی‌ داشت بستنی اکبر مشتی‌ نوش جان میکرد فک و فامیل به ما میگفتن نوروز جان. آخه تصدقت برم یک کم کوتاه بیا و کله شقی رو بذار کنار، حد عقل یک کم جواب این همه منطق که اینجا صحبت شد بده.

اصلا اگر آقای یار شاطر بگه خر ما از کرگی دم نداشت شما ول می‌کنید؟ لا الاه آل الله. استخفر الله ربیع وتوبعله. الله و اکبر. عجب گیری کردیم ها!


default

توجه فرمودید؟

امیر کبیر سر بازارچه سید ابراهیم (not verified)


اشکال کار ما آنستکه شش کلمه یک مطلب را میخوانیم و بعد ادعا میکنیم که تمام مطلب را خوانده ایم.

از صبح سحر بنده چی گفتم؟ عرض کردم تصمیم گیری با علی، نقی و حسن و حسین نیست. مگر دارید زولبیا بامیه میخرید که هی برمیگردید و میگوئید "من اینجوری تلفظ میکنم و اگر شیکمم را هم پاره کنن بازهم از رای خودم بر نمیگردم" ده همین کار را کردید که انگلستان چهار ترکه سوارمان شد، سرکشی،تمرد و گردن کلفتی در جایی که نباید بکنیم.

شما اگر فکر میکنید باین آسانی میتوانید در علم زبانشناسی اظهار نظر و رای نهائی بدهید خوب چرا در علم طب همین کا را نمیکنید تا بفهمید چه عواقبی دارد.

من در پائین مطلبی از یک فردی که پارسال جواب را داده بود (به انگلیسی)منعکس کردم که از قرار کسی توجه نکرد. عین همین مطلب را هم خانم سوری از طریق دوستش که یک زبانشناس است دریافت کرد. حالا باز ده دقیقه دیگر یکی میاید و میگوید "من اگر خونم را بریزند هرگز آن تلفظ یارشاطر را قبول نخواهم کرد، چون من یک ایرانی کله شق هستم و از اعراب متنفرم" یان به عرب بدبخت چه ربطی دارد؟

بنابراین نتیجه میگیریم که هرکس باید احترام به تحصیلات و سالها زحمت اساتید فن بگذارد و از ایشان قدردانی کند و نمک نشناسی نکند. ما در این وبسایت وقتی یک بچه قیف خارجی به ایران میرود و چند تا عکس شاشی میگیرد و در اینجا چاپ میکند، وای حالا بیا و ببین ایرانی گداپرور چه استقبالی از او میکنند و آفرین آفرینی میگویند، ولی غرور همین افراد بایشان اجازه نمیدهد از یک هموطن استاد زبان که در عین فقر عمر خود را وقف زبان فارسی کرده است قدردانی کنند.

این درست همان چیزی است که انگلستان در فرهنگ ما آنرا دریافت و از آن برعلیه خود ما استفاده کرد و دویست سال است توی سرمان میزند و آن ملکه لگوریشان سالروز انقلاب را تبریک گفت (بروید و در وبسایت سفارت انگلیس در ایران آنرا بخوانید).

اگر بجای این مطلب که پارسال هم از طریق این شخص بیجهت مطرح شد و به نتیجه ای هم نرسید، میامد و یک مطلبی که بدرد ملت بخورد را مطرح میکرد کار به این جنجال بیهوده نمیرسید.

در پایان امیدوارم کلیه ایرانیان خارج از کشور بدانند که تا اطلاع ثانوی ما فقط به حرف دکترمان گوش میکنیم و به عقاید عوام در مورد امور پزشکی پشیزی بار نمکنیم و همین روش را نیز در مورد سایر علوم بکار میبریم.

نوشتن صحیح نوروز در انگلیسی همان است که اساتید اعلام کردند و وقت خودرا بیهوده تلف نکنید.

والسلام علیکم و رحمتالله و برکاته
یا پسر ناصرالدین شاه قاجار عجلی الله تعالی فرجه


default

Simple

by hossein.hosseini on

Dear Souri,

Please thank your friend for her analysis.  I want to make it clear that my take on this issue only applies to the United States as I live and work here.  I understand that Norooz is pronounced differently in other countries and regions.  My whole point is here in America, we should write it in such as a way that when a clueless non-Iranian reads it, it is pronounced as close to the originating country (Iran) as possible. This might sound like a simple minded approach, but this is how I am. 


Souri

Re: phonetic spelling is a linguistic tool

by Souri on

Dear Mr Hosseini,

I had forwarded this article to a friend of mine who knows phonetic & linguistic  as a tool. I've got this response to Bruce's opinion.

While I, myself have a tendency to accept Bruce's opinion, but wanted also to share other's opinion with you too. Unfortunately it is written in Farsi (my friend lives in Italy) hope it is not too difficult to read:

 

tozih bedeh ke "phonetically correct" in agha, sahih nist, choon phonetic yek standard beinolmelali dare na inke choon
zabane englisi baladi ba dide zabane englisi negah koni ( book =
rooz) in faghat dar englisi sehat dare vali phonetic har dictionary ro ke bebini "U" baraye sedaye ruz estefade mishe na "oo" va hamchenin
sai kon pishe khodet begi " no " bemanie jadid va yek bar begoo "nonor"
be manie loos, khodet motevajeh mishi ke 2 talafoz mokhtalefand ke ba
estefadeh az "now" ya "naw" kamelan az "no" motemayez mishan.
behar hal, motmaen bash ke "nowruz" sahih tarin va
nazdiktarin baiaan phonetically correct eide aziz ma mibashad va dar
tamame zabanhaye donia ghabele dark o talafoz ast.    


default

Let's Be Reasonable

by Mehr (not verified) on

I have gone through all the comments and the strongest point against Nowruz so far has been how Americans would pronounce it wrong. Due to the following reasons, I cannot agree with “pronunciation” point:

1- Nowruz is celebrated by different ethnic groups inside Iran and some other nations such as Afghans, Tajiks, Kurds, etc; and Tehrani accent should not be used as a reference.

2- If we were talking about German, I couldn’t agree more, but pronunciation should not be the most important factor for how we spell a word in English. In my humble opinion, the most important factor would be what the word brings to mind when it is read which in Nowruz case is pretty close to what it means.


default

Scholars?

by hossein.hosseini on

Dear Amir Kabir:

Let me give it a try, you see phonetic spelling is a linguistic tool used by many scholars to convey an accurate depiction of a particular culture.  Certain responsible scholars bring noteworthy attention to their cultures while others are doomed by the lack thereof.
 
As far as I can tell, our Iranian history and culture has historically been brutalized, for lack of a better term by foreign invaders and irresponsible Iranians. "Irresponsible" in the sense that our thinkers passively welcomed falsities that were published over the years. "NOROOZ" is that very common falsity that has plagued Iranians living abroad.
 
Agha for the nth times, "NOROOZ” phonetically and commonly is recognized and used by Iranians living outside of Iran.  We are interested in preserving what is considered to be the true Persian culture, separate from the Arab influence, and de politicization of this Iranian National Holiday. Nothing more and nothing less.   If they call it NOWROUZ in Afghanistan and other places, that’s fine.  This website is mostly about Iranians and those who push for Norooz message from politicians are also Iranians.  They can at least ask the Iranian-American community before they take these actions.
 
NOWROUZ, as presented to the general English speaking culture not only appears to be an Arabic term but also changes the accurate depiction of the original term NOROOZ.
 
Many Iranian-Americans including Mr. Bahrami, myself, and others have chosen to correct that wrong by confidently expressing what is "accurate" from THEIR perspectives while taking the initiative in defying what has been shoved in our throats by callous scholars over the years.   You are debating the other side which is fine too.

We live in a new age where such terms as ‘Yahoo’ or ‘Google’ were unknown some years ago.
So let’s not get stuck with some mis-spelling of a term because the author was a ‘scholar’ of Persian Language.  Let’s have an honest and open debate and let the readers decide on their own.

 


default

because the origin of no now

by scientist 2 (not verified) on

because the origin of no now now is new and noeve in spanish and similarly latin.
don't forget that farsi is an indo-european language so you can say :
neo-rooz if you like may be this is closer/
neo con and neorooz have one thing in common. both mean new something.
the way we say nowrooz is wrong, newrooz is better or if you like just say neorooz. this covers the grounds well.
norooz is wrong, nowruz is wrong so neorooz is the best choice


anonymous fish

american version

by anonymous fish on

first... amirrostam... i agree with ganselmi.  why NOT impose a persian work in the english language.  i myself take great pride in saying "happy norooz" versus "happy new year".  i hate hearing the word "force" though... americans don't like being "forced" to do anything...lol. 

"now ruz" IS going to be pronounced "now" as in "cow".  i can safely guarantee that.  and again, believe me, most americans DO want to pronounce it correctly.   

as far as eye-ran or ir-an... please bear in mind that the US has regional accents as well.  southerners don't pronounce words the same way yankees do.  but i totally agree that political figures should know it!!!!!  my dad says eye-ran and no matter how many times i correct him, his brain just doesn't get it.  he simply doesn't see how he's saying it different.  i know it's frustrating but please don't think it's an intentional insult.  most people see the word and automatically process it phonetically... iran = i ran = eye ran.  expect more from the media and policital arena but cut the average guy a little slack.  a gentle correction and reminder will do wonders...:-)


default

Amir Kabir who said

by Norooz (not verified) on

Amir Kabir who said Americans prounounce Iran correctly? The correct spelling of Iran in English should've be Eran. Like Ebay or Efile or Email. But many years ago they spelled it as Iran in French and now it has stuck.

There are other countries like Deutchland that is Germany or Ordon that is Jordan or other places.

I wish it was Eran in America and Iran in France. But we are talking about Norooz which for decades was Norooz until just a few years ago.

As I said when Persian Gulf becomes Arabian Gulf, Norooz will become Nowruz. Now as they say; read the rest of story as you please.


default

آقای امیر کبیر

Norooz (not verified)


آقای امیر کبیر مقام آقای یار شاطر جای خودش محفوظه. بعضیها دوست دارند بگند ایشون فردوسی زمان ماست، من هم ایرادی ندارم. حضرت عباسی کاری که ایشان کرده از فردوسی کمتر نیست.

بنده هم از آقای بهمنی گوسفند نخریدم. من خودم کلی‌ از اینکه اسم شخص بنده این چند ساله اخیر به این فضاهت افتاده پکرم. ربطی‌ به آقای بهمنی هم نداره و تاکید کنم که این چند سال اخیر و الا سالهای گذشته تو همین آمریکا مثل بچهٔ آدم اسم ما رو درست تلفظ میکردند و مینوشتند.

ولی‌ همون طور که گفتم چون من سالهای ساله که تو آمریکا زندگی‌ می‌کنم و اسمم هم تو پاسپورت نوروز نوشته شده اگر بالا برید پایین بیاد نوروز خواهد ماند و همانطور که گفتم اگر روزی خلیج فارس اسمش بشه خلیج عربی‌، نوروز هم می‌شه ناروز! وسلام نامه تمام.

در ضمن من نگفتم کسانی‌ که پیر میشوند دانش زبان فارسی‌‌شان کم میشود. گفتم کسانی‌ که پیر میشوند آرام آرام صحبت میکنند و معمولا به همین علت تلفضشان عوض میشود.


default

آقای نوروز

امیر کبیر در خیابان شهباز نزدیک میدان فوزیه (not verified)


منظور من این بود که ایرانیان "آمریکا" را در زبان خوشان صحیح میحوانند و در انگلیسی هم آمریکائیان ایران را کاملا صحیح تلفظ میکنند و دستشان هم درد نکند و ما هیچ گله ای از ایشان نداریم.


default

پاسخ به آفای نوروز

امیرکبیر در قهوه خانه سر سه راه ژاله (not verified)


سوال خوبی کردید ولی دو چیز را قبلا بگویم. دانش من در زبان فارسی بسیار در سطح عادی است و پیش پا افتاده و خدای نکرده این اشتباه پیش نیاید که بنده تحصیلاتی در مورد زبانشناسی دارم.

شما پیروی از تحقیقات استاد یارشاطر را عمل یک گوسفند میخوانید ولی پیروی از حرف بروس بهمنی را حاضرید روی تخم چشمت بگذاری. این را میگویند یک طلبه واقعی و یک شیعه واقعی.

ترحم بر پلنگ تیز دندان
ستمکاری بود برگوسفندان

به امید روزی که با استاد یار شاطر همان کاری را بکنید که با سایر ایراندوستان کردید. شما فکر میکنید افرادی که پیر میشوند دانش زبانشان کم میشود؟.

این آقای بهمنی یک علاقه ای دارد در تفرقه اندازی و مسابقه در اینکه از همه بیشتر در بلاگشان پاسخ بیاید، خوب ماهم امروز سعی خودمان را برای رضای دل ایشان انجام دادیم.

بهرصورت شما پاسخ سوال خودت را همان اول کار دادید.


default

در ضمن آقای

Norooz (not verified)


در ضمن آقای امیر کبیر شما خودت میگی‌ مگه ما تو فارسی‌ اینجوری یا انجوری تلفظ می‌کنیم. اینجا هم صحبت از اینه که تو آمریکا چجوری تلفظ میکنند نه در ایران.

ولی‌ کلا شاید شما اصلا همه چیز رو قاطی کردید. بیخودی مکث می‌کنید! اصلا معلوم نیست ما با فارسی‌ تلفظ کردن نوروز هم موافق باشیم تا چه برسه به دیکتهٔ امریکایش!


default

یک مطلب دیگر

امیر کبیر درنزدیکی بازار بین الحرمین (not verified)


ببین آفای بهمنی، شما عین این عمل را در نوروز سال 2008 هم کردید و هرکس میتواند برود و برای خودش عین این بلاگ دو دسته اندازی و آتش افکنی را بخواند و ببیند منظور بنده در مورد حفظ احترام به استاد یار شاطر چیست.

در آن کپی سال قبل شما نیز یکعده ابراز عقیده کرده اند ولی بنده با اجازه شما آخرین نظریه را که شخصی برای شما فرستاده را اینجا کپی میکنم که نصیحت خوبی است.

از فارسی زبانان گرفته مباش، ما همه برزیگران یک مزرعه ایم.
------------------

Now and No
by pourial on Sat Mar 22, 2008 02:24 AM PDT

Dr. Yarshater and the linguists you so haughtily mock are quite right to use 'now' instead of 'no'.

The reason for it is that the 'ow' here is a dipthong which is ponounced differently (a bit extended) to the regular 'ó'. The difference is slight in the Tehrani accent but it is quite obvious is some others, especially in the east.

There is a relatively scientific method to tranliterating Persian and I for one would rather follow that than write whatever I feel sounds right and then bitch about how it's the linguists who are causing the confusion.


default

آقای امیر کبیر

Norooz (not verified)


آقای امیر کبیر آقای بهمنی فکر نکنم فارسی‌ خواندن بلد باشد حالا شاید من اشتباه کنم.

حالا شما به ما بگو کی‌ گفته که نوروز مکث داره؟! حالا شما مکث میکنی‌ دلیل نداره دیگران هم مکث کنند. بعلاوه شما چطور تو ناروز مکث میکنی ولی‌ تو نوروز نه؟! اروز از کجا اومد؟

من اسم خودم نروزه. دیگه از من بهتر کی‌ سراغ داره؟ آقای یارشاطر هم کسی‌ به ایشان نظر بد ندارد ولی‌ ایشان کمی‌ سنش بالاست شاید کلمات رو می‌خواد آروم تلفظ کنه. به ما چه؟ آقائ یار شاطر خوب ولی‌ شما جواب هیچ کدام ما‌ها رو ندادی فقط به علت اینکه آقای یار شاطر اینجوری گفته میخواهید ما هم مثل گوسفند قبول کنیم. نه آقا جان، قر بون شکل ماهت برم ما با این حرفها خر نمیشیم.

قربانت


default

سوری خانم

امیر کبیر سر حوض مسجد ارک (not verified)


مگر ما آمریکا را در فارسی درست تلفظ میکنیم؟ آیا انگلستان را همانطور که خودشان میخوانند ما تلفط میکنیم؟ اگر شما قوانین زبان را کنار میگذارید لااقل به هموطنان بگوئید اول آمریکا را درست تلفظ کنند و بعد از آمریکائیها میخواهیم ما راضی کنند و نگویند "آیران".

حتی همسایگان عرب ما به کشور ما میگویند "ای ران" با فتحه الف. شما فکر میکنید اینکار را از روی عداوت یا حماقت میکنند؟

بیائید بجای این بحث ها پول حمع کنیم برای اطفال بینوای سرگردان در شهرهای ایران. آن کار بمراتب اجرش بیشتر است تا تو دهنی زدن بمردم بیگناه آمریکا که از روی دوستی اسم وطن مارا برایمان تکرار میکنند و عید را بما تبریک میگویند.

با تشکر


Kaveh Nouraee

I agree!

by Kaveh Nouraee on

I just can't see how the letters N-O-W-R-U-Z can be pronounced "NOROOZ".

I've spelled it "N-O-R-O-U-Z" too. But NOW, and NAW just don't cut it.


default

آقای بهمنی

امیر کبیر سر پاشیر قنات حاج امین الضرب (not verified)


آقا جان شما بخاطر آنکه زبان مادریاتان ترکی است (از مطالب گذشته شما دریافتم) اصرار دارید که لغات فارسی را بزبان مادری تلفظ کنید.

مسئله بحث و دعوا و بکرسی رساندن حرف نیست. مشکل شما اینست که بخاطر دوری از وطن بکمربته تصمیم میگیرید صبح اول صبح طرز نوشتن یک لغت را بمردم تحمیل کنید بعد هم سفسطه میکنید.

شما اول باید سئوال بنده را جواب دهید که تحصیلات شما در زمینه زبان فارسی چیست و بعد بفرمائید در مورد زبانشناسی یا لینگویستیک چه تحصیلاتی (نه فقط مطالعه) کرده اید؟

بچه دلیلی فکر میکنید از استاد یارشاطر بیشتری میدانید؟
چه کسی بشما گفت که مردم حق ندارند در بلاگ شما با شما مخالفت کنند؟

آقا جان در فارسی لغت نوروز که اسم مرکب است، بعد از "نو" یک مکث دارد و بعد "روز" تلفظ میشود. آن پیشنهاد شما و طرز نوشتنی که پیشنهاد کردید این اجازه مکث را نمیدهد و لغتی که شما پیشنهاد کردید مانند "عروض" خوانده میشود و نه "نوروز" که مکثی در آن باید باشد. هجی کردن شما "نوروز" را از حالت اسم مرکب در میاورد.

حالا شما آمدید و واقعا این کارت بسیار عجیب و کودکانه است که نوشتها و تحقیقات استاد یار شاطر را نفی میکنی و بجای آن حرف هشت نفر را در بلاگ خودت را مدرک رسالت خودت در زنده نگهداشتن زبان فارسی میدانید؟

بهر صورت بجای دعوا فقط یک سئوال مطرح است و آن اینکه شما چه موفقیتهائی در دانش زبان فارسی کسب کرده اید که کار استاد یارشاطر را نفی میکنید؟ چرا؟ چون عصبانی هستید از آنکه تحقیقات او در جمع در زمینه زبان فارسی است و نه زبان ترکی.

یا علی مدد، قربان لری


Souri

yes, Bruce

by Souri on

I  had noticed that one! In his NR speech, Honda called Iranian as "Eye-ranian"  which is always upsetting me whenever I hear it


bahmani

Nevermind NOWRUZ, Honda calls us EYE-RAY-KNEE-UN!

by bahmani on

I can't believe it!

After all the hoopla on getting NR recognized (bad spelling and all), it seems no one thought to correct Mike Honda's frickin' pronunciation of Iranian!

Apparently, we simply cannot ever get a single break...(shaking my head)


bahmani

Amir Kabir finishing...

by bahmani on

See, you are doing it too!

We say the color is Green. You are saying "No, Green must be seen as Blue. If you show Americans the color Green, they will say it is Blue too." Then I show Americans Green and they say "Uh OK, Dude, that's Green", and then you continue to say, "No if you show Americans Green they will say it is Blue"

IT SHALL REMAIN....???!!!

Look, Janeman, you can't simply respond with an unrelated statement of what you wish to advertise for. You cannot simply post a mantra you've been taught to repeat, that completely ignores the piece you are commenting on with a statement you hope to promote your position with.

Saying something ridiculous and wrong long enough won't actually make it work or right. Green is Green. NOWRUZ is COWBUG.

Please address my 2 points directly. Counter my points and I'll gladly listen, and if you convince me by being proven right, I will proudly concede to your Kabirness. Otherwise, post an article or blog. You just wrote your assertion (which is wrong according to the many comments below it) that this is the way it will be. Once again, with total disregard (and now it is starting to sound disrespectful to English) for the established rules of Pronouncing English!

Look, I know what you want. And I want that to. But you are not going to get it with NOWRUZ. Simply give up this folly. The emperor has no clothes! NOWRUZ doesn't work in English! It doesn't work for Afghans, Kurds, or Tajiks either, because they all (mostly, I am not sure how the Taliban say it, maybe you know?) pronounce it the same!

"You" just made up a spelling of the Word and are trying to obfuscate the rule of English phonetic pronunciation to get it. But wrong is wrong. The time you spent on ignoring the facts, to build your alternate universe of pronunciation is also now, frankly disturbing.

What I am trying to tell you, is that NOWRUZ CANNOT BE pronounced as correctly according to the current established English phonetic rules. I am not pushing a spelling. I am saying NOWRUZ doesn't work.

I have also shown you, very clearly (why do you deny it?), two-fold, how this does not work either using the simplest scientifically accurate, valid and bias-free survey.

In English, pauses are done with spacing. NOWRUZ doesn't do that either! Your suggestion that "When you read the word "Nowruz" in English and you are not an Iranian. You will read it as NOW and pause and then Ruz." is utterly false. It will not happen unless you split it into 2 words, which you haven't even done that! But please, just try it yourself, and ask non-Iranians.

Once again, (hear it this time) NOWRUZ is incorrect according to English Phonetic rules, and twice as wrong, according to survey results.

You are scaringly in denial if you continue to assert and insist how non-Iranians would pronounce NOWRUZ.

They simply won't and I think deep down, you know it too. Or at least your Iranian-American kids do.

Do the survey my friend and you'll see what I mean. Just on your own kids.

Again, nothing against the Yarshater efforts at Iranica and NR recognition, the Spelling however, is merely utterly and totally wrong, incorrect, and breaks all the English Language Phonetic rules. Not my opinion, linguistic FACT.

Now, Care to comment on that? I'm all ears.