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I'll call it NOWRUZ, if you call him OWBAWMO
24-Mar-2009
Once again, it begins again.
One of the signs that the new year is upon us, is the continued debate surrounding the Yarshater camp (more on that later) spelling of NOWRUZ.
And every year it seems, someone brings me flawed data to support this aberration and attempt to amend common English phonetic rules.
Now don't get me wrong. Here's my point:
- I am in no way suggesting you must spell it my way or that I even have a "way".
- I say that NOWRUZ isn't as successful a spelling as is possible.
- I do not think we need to have one correct spelling. Just look at Hannukah.
This year though, I was presented with yet another reason that I must agree to be coerced into using NOWRUZ;
UNITY
It was told to me, that we must all accept NOWRUZ to show we can unify and as a sign of Iranian community solidarity.
To be sure you the reader understand this, because I bet some of you will undoubtedly have an opinion, I'll carefully craft this next sentence.
I'll even space it out so you can fully digest what you may be about to comment for, or against;
NOWRUZ, according to established, undeniable, unamendable English phonetic rules that govern the likely pronunciation of words written in English, is pronounced as; (ready?)
NOW as in: HOW NOW BROWN COW
RUZ as in: RUG, BUG, HUG, MUG
So our most positive and precious asset in cultural relationship building, if spelled as NOWRUZ would rhyme with COWBUG.
Got it?
NOROOZ is the most phonetically correct (more on proof later) spelling. But for some reason choosing the obvious and more importantly, phonetically correct spelling, is not an option for building unity. Apparently.
So yeah, there's UNITY now.
The Yarshater camp, since their unauthorized, uninvited, and self imposed assignment to get UNESCO to record NR as a unique Persian cultural heritage trait, somehow got onto spelling it as NOWRUZ. Claiming that the top Persian language linguists in the world all agreed on the NOWRUZ spelling as best.
The flaw as it appears to me, is that to identify the best English spelling, you would consult with English linguists not Persian, then say the word to them as you wish it to be pronounced in English, and ask them to write it in English, so native English speakers could pronounce it correctly themselves, whenever they read it in books and papers, unaided.
Unfortunately according to this "New Unimproved English" being pushed by the Yarshater camp via their coercion in getting numerous publishings, and press releases by the White House, congress, groups like NIAC, and naively supportive foundations like PAIIA and WIKIPEDIA, you'd have to also spell OBAMA (also not a traditional English word) as OWBOMO. OW to get that same desired Yarshater-Persian inflection. And BOMO, to get the rest of it the same way the Yarshater camp wants you to speak.
And of course, all of this is supposed to make total sense. Ask or question it, and you are apparently, quite the un-Iranian, as this new unification demand goes.
Even though I knew it, I figured I'd have to test it. You can't just be right these days. You need a survey to suggest anything in the Iranian universe.
So I tested the NOWRUZ spelling. 96% said it WRONG!
I then tested NOROOZ. 98% said it CORRECT!
But don't believe me or my survey. Please, do your own test. It's super easy. Here's how:
Step 1: Ask 100 Americans if they know the name of the Persian New Year. (If they do, give them some shirini and tea, wish them a happy new year and move on to someone else.)
Step 2: If they do not know the name of the Persian new year, show them the word NOWRUZ and ask them to say it out loud. Do the same with a different group of Americans using NOROOZ and record the results.
And this would be the end of this discussion. If we were not Iranian. For as all Iranian disagreements go, the one who is wrong, almost never admits it. Especially if they are older, like the Yarshater camp, and especially if you suggest they are wrong socially or in public. For if you are younger, you must have stacked the deck, or you must have done this or that or some other sneaky trick to make them look wrong or mistaken. It is never a mistake on their part. Always you are wrong. And shame on you for your dis-respect of your elders.
Now with this latest attempt to bring UNITY in as the leash to heel everyone who spells it purely phonetically, the NOWRUZ gang has shifted it's oppressive tactics to playing on your sense of community.
When are you ever going to learn to do the right thing, and accept this embarrassing spelling? Huh? When? Can't you see you are being disloyal? Just because you think our spelling is wrong doesn't give you the right to stop us from using it.
WTF?
And so goes the argument or non-argument, updated with UNITY, this year. Always made defiantly. In total denial of any slightest possibility for error.
The government of Iran has also, by the way, finally weighed in on this recently. And true to Persian form, has sanctioned the official government spelling as; NOROUZ.
Go figure...
HAPPY YOU KNOW WHAT...
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Interesting. So I have a
by stranger (not verified) on Fri Apr 03, 2009 01:09 PM PDTInteresting.
So I have a question, If you say Nam for name then how would you pronounce Num and Nom ?
Should you not use Num or nom? To me nam seems to be sounding like mam dad jam bam and sam.
So if your writing is right then Bam the city sounds like nam does it not?
I am not expert on these things since i did not go to college but i think something is wrong here with your nam . Don't you think so? maybe you should not reply and let some experts answer. some of them are a lot more educated than you and I.
have a nice day
I have first Sikl education.
by Norooz (not verified) on Fri Apr 03, 2009 10:09 AM PDTI have first Sikl education. Far more than needed for this discussion.
why not spelling your name
by George (not verified) on Fri Apr 03, 2009 09:47 AM PDTwhy not spelling your name and stating your education.
I became really curious to see if iranian leaders are you you .
If by "name" you mean esm
by Norooz (not verified) on Fri Apr 03, 2009 04:47 AM PDTIf by "name" you mean esm and are touchy touchy about the "Arabic" version of it, I'd spell it as nám like I'd spell cliché or naïve with a veergool! What does that have to do with Norooz?
Again with the "Latin origin" reference bringing back memories of My Big Fat Greek Wedding's origin of every word being Greek. Let's go back to the root of ALL words so that the billions of people around the world ALL speak the same language.
In the case of Norooz it is clearly the easiest way to pronounce it in English as well as spelling it without any difficulty and most importantly; correctly.
how would you write name in
by Anonymous101 (not verified) on Thu Apr 02, 2009 09:28 PM PDThow would you write name in farsi and how would you write its prnounciation in english?
please do not use esm. that is arabic.
The other one has latin origin and i hope you can spell it right.
"You must have a prefix that
by Norooz (not verified) on Thu Apr 02, 2009 04:32 PM PDT"You must have a prefix that means new. you missed his point."
WHY? Akhe baba WHY?! In what graded English maddrasas did they teach this English?! I don't want to continue but you guys just don't give up. Or maybe you want me to continue and take pot shots as you go on.
If you must have a prefix that means new, then why not have a suffix that means day? Hun?
Who said you can have a half Persian half English word? The word new in Persian/Farsi is pronounced as No, like yes sir, NO sir. It doesn't get any easier than this. God forbid if the word was harder to pronounce.
Bottom line there is an "official" unreasonable spelling of 'Nowruz' that is being forced fed to us in the past few years as explained and discussed in this blog. There is also the old and correct spelling and pronounciation of Norooz. There are other versions but these 2 are the most common, Norooz being the most common.
Spell it anyway you want. Pronounce it anyway you want. Just don't give half ass basis such as I miss the point because you don't like No and must replace it with something else, anything else, like neo, know, now, new and so on and last but certainly not the least don't forget about the *ooz part!
So if you do not like his
by observer1000 (not verified) on Thu Apr 02, 2009 02:17 PM PDTSo if you do not like his neorooz, then write it as you wish like new-rooz or now rooz or n0-rooz.
how ignorant and stubborn some of you people are.
You must have a prefix that means new. you missed his point.
"neorooz is a lot closer in
by Norooz (not verified) on Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:06 AM PDT"neorooz is a lot closer in pronounciation"
What does being close have anything to do with it? The Fereydoon and Fred analogy is due to your intention of being close! Close enough now?!
you are wrong and still want
by neorooz (not verified) on Thu Apr 02, 2009 08:41 AM PDTyou are wrong and still want ot be the last to finish this thread.
Newrooz is nto how we pronouce 'nowrooz'
neorooz is a lot closer in pronounciation.
(fereydoon and fred) poor analogoy
i rest my case
Call it Newrooz then. Why
by Norooz (not verified) on Thu Apr 02, 2009 04:17 AM PDTCall it Newrooz then. Why be shy and go with Neo when you can go all the way with New? This is like calling Fereydoon; Fred, it serves the purpose great I suppose.
i buy this one. it looks
by neorooz (not verified) on Wed Apr 01, 2009 09:59 PM PDTi buy this one. it looks good to me.
just make sure you do not prnouce is as ni o rooz bet reather ne o rooz.
it serves the purpose great. it means rights and it implies right and it is the best.
end of discussion
Neorooz is like the light neon
by Norooz (not verified) on Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:46 AM PDTNeorooz is like the light neon or the car Neon. You know how that is pronounced? Now try pronouncing neorooz, it is the same way.
Also, let's not bring in indo-european or indo-chinese or semi-european or latin and other language root references. It reminds me of that movie "My Big Fat Greek Wedding" where the father said ALL words have Greek beginnings, even the name of the window cleaner Windex!
no Nowrooz no Norooz but
by ostade zabaan (not verified) on Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:12 AM PDTno Nowrooz no Norooz but Neorooz.
No and now and neo can be the prefix for the rooz but which is correct?
Based on the meaning of new day and new year and the fact that farsi is indo-european language , it must have origin that comes from Latin, and it must have similarity in meaning to what is said in spanish and german and italian.
Neo means new and it is almost pronounced the way you pronounce now and no when you write norooz or nowrooz. in fact its pronounciation is closer to what we write in farsi.
If you do not accept this and still argue god can only help you.
bedrood
"I just checked Iranica and
by Norooz (not verified) on Fri Mar 27, 2009 07:19 AM PDT"I just checked Iranica and I find that it is spelled Nowruz!"
Iranica and Dr. Yarshater are synonymous which we discussed earlier being very valuable and having their own respectable places.
However, the discussion here isn't just about spelling of the word. There are others who are now prounouncing it differently with pauses and such. Then there are those who want to mix and match an English word like now or neo and claim it as no (new) in Farsi and keep the ruz part from Farsi and come up with a half Farsi half English word. Strange discussion indeed, entertaining none the less!
Lastly about the spelling bee competition that you mentioned, this whole thing started from there few years ago. The judge pronounced it as NOW ruz and upon request he pronounced it same way and slowly as NOW ruz. So you see this isn't just about spelling, once you go down that road you'll end up pronouncing it that way.
"good and wise manner"
by Norooz (not verified) on Fri Mar 27, 2009 04:30 AM PDT"good and wise manner" should come from someone who has manners herself. Flip flopping and trying to make a point with smiley faces and later saying "you can never get my point" is just irrelevant.
I am fine with my behavior because it is on the point and topic without accusing others of childish behavior, never learning, ridiculous behavior, showing teeth and other stuff. You are not funny, just angry and sour accusing others of your own angry behavior.
Norooz it shall remain.
Wow...strange discussion!
by Azarin Sadegh on Thu Mar 26, 2009 09:46 PM PDTI just checked Iranica and I find that it is spelled Nowruz! So Nowruz it is! Period!
But I find this discussion a bit strange, even a bit absurd! Anyway Take it easy guys! You're free to write any word with any spelling (if you like)...but you shouldn't expect to win any Spelling bee contest. That's all :-))
After all that is said and
by Anonymous- (not verified) on Thu Mar 26, 2009 09:35 PM PDTAfter all that is said and done...
It is -- Norooz -- for me!
Norooz
by Souri on Thu Mar 26, 2009 06:08 PM PDT"Making smiley faces won't make a point."
Told you, you can never get my point without a dictionary !
That smily face, was to precise that I have nothing against you, as you think. I'm only reminding you something which you might have forgotten (or never learned) and that's called "good and wise manner"
Now I'm done with you, no more interested in double posting each time, only to make you understand one point.
"I flip flop and post
by Norooz (not verified) on Thu Mar 26, 2009 05:52 PM PDT"I flip flop and post comments ... you could focus more on your own behavior"
I am ok with my behavior. Manners course is taught next door. I am well behaved and on topic. You on the other hand I don't know. Making smiley faces won't make a point.
Norooz
by Souri on Thu Mar 26, 2009 05:26 PM PDTI flip flop and post comments against you :o) here to tell you: rather than focusing on the spelling of the word Nowruz, you could focus more on your own behavior so to be able to make a change in this world, instead of making pointless noises
An Idea
by Kaveh Nouraee on Thu Mar 26, 2009 05:13 PM PDTNext year, we'll just call it March 20th.
"By doing what you did here,
by Norooz (not verified) on Thu Mar 26, 2009 05:12 PM PDT"By doing what you did here, you failed to change people's mind about that!!"
People's mind are already set. I just want to know the basis people have which so far they have all been funny, including yours. Your basis is because I said so it is not so! You and others are willing to not only spell it wrong, but more importantly prounounce it wrong.
You ask me what is it to me? What is to you? You flip flop and post comments here against me for what? That I am bad? Yes I am bad! I'm bad! You know I'm bad! I'm bad! Or is that I'm boawd?!
Norooz
by Souri on Thu Mar 26, 2009 05:02 PM PDTI wasn't expecting YOU to get my point anyway. I explain it for even YOU could understand:
By doing what you did here, you failed to change people's mind about that!! Congratulation !!!
"You know what? ... because
by Norooz (not verified) on Thu Mar 26, 2009 04:23 PM PDT"You know what? ... because of your ridiculous overreaction ... I will always call it Nowruz and will always write it Nowruz and will always invite all Iranian to spell it Nowruz."
Feel better now? Good. I will always spell it Norooz.
Norooz
by Souri on Thu Mar 26, 2009 03:44 PM PDTWhat is this to you? What's this obsession with your name (if it is your name at all)
You know what? I though Bruce's statement sound logical, but because of your ridiculous overreaction to the other people's opinion, I will always call it Nowruz and will always write it Nowruz and will always invite all Iranian to spell it Nowruz. So much for my reaction to your stupid manner in this blog.
Now, Bruce and Amirkabir has left the subject long time ago, but you are still here showing your teeth to eveybody?!! What a childish behavior.
Grew up man!
"takes care of the true
by Norooz (not verified) on Thu Mar 26, 2009 02:49 PM PDT"takes care of the true meaning of now or new"
Now or new?! Take your pick. You can't have it both ways! This is not a Pinglish or Fargilisi word!
neo-rooz covers the correct
by neo-ooz (not verified) on Thu Mar 26, 2009 01:57 PM PDTneo-rooz covers the correct pronounciation and also takes care of the true meaning of now or new as you have been using.
so stop it guys and accept this. I wonder what kind of teachers you had.
"Do you know why it has
by Norooz (not verified) on Thu Mar 26, 2009 12:39 PM PDT"Do you know why it has taken us so long to get a Nowruz resolution on the table?"
Because we had not lived in America long enough and no congressman cared enough and we didn't have any NIAC or PAIIA. We did not present any consituency that voted so no politicians cared. In 30 years we have become US citizens and now we vote so they care.
30 years compared to other immigrants communities such as Italians, Irish or Mexicans is not nothing. Besides the Norooz resolution while not as resolution had been given before many times by Presidents and Govt officials.
Lastly who said anything about this discussion preventing anything? The resolution is there, we are just saying it is estupid to have it spelled wrong. Anyone wants to do something? this ball and this median! I am sure those who worked on the resolution didn't care much about this discussion. They just did it and more power to them. Norooz however it shall remain!
I just want to say that it
by msina (not verified) on Thu Mar 26, 2009 11:41 AM PDTI just want to say that it is so disheartening that as a community we need to be at eachother throats when one of us tries to do something good for the rest of the community. Do you know why it has taken us so long to get a Nowruz resolution on the table? Because some people have to kill it for the rest of the community by making a big deal out of something that has no significance. What is more important? the spelling of Nowruz or finally having a Nowruz resolution. Lets think about it!!!!!! Americans do not even know about our most important holiday, so why does it even matter how we spell it? They dont even know it exists. Why is everyone so upset and passionate about how we spell it? why cant we all be happy that we might finally get some recognition as a community?
We have to sit back and ask ourselves why as Iranian Americans we are at the top of every single industry. We are NASA scientists, actors, successful businessmen ,but for some strange reason ( I wonder why!!!) we are not known to the American public!!!
Maybe it is for reasons like these. It is disheartening because my generation (18-30) of Iranian Americans has the live with the consequences of your generation and the way you do things. Basically when we cannot come together as a community, when we are at eachothers throats and constantly attacking one another, we have to think...who are we really hurting?
Consistency is not a shahab
by Norooz (not verified) on Thu Mar 26, 2009 11:39 AM PDTConsistency is not a shahab coming down from space. It seems Persian, Persia, Iran, Arabs, Norooz and everything in between is being addressed here out of fear that something may or may not happen in the future!
We're not here to solve all of Iran's problems. This is just a simple case of spelling a word that makes sense. Dan Quayle once spelled potato as potatoe do we have to bring him into this?
Norooz it shall remain.